How is the Cannon Dancer port?

[evil_ash_xero]

This should be out tomorrow. Let me know, guys. I want to get this on PS4.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Pretty sure a Ratalaika's job, ergo, pretty sure Mame-based. Which supposedly is in a quite good state these days.

[evil_ash_xero]

Those are the same guys who did GleyLancer. I found that to be too laggy. That being said, this isn't a shmup, so it's not as vital.

[evil_ash_xero]

Well, SkyKid liked it, in his Nintendo Life review.

[cfx]

I don't know if this one is very useful and it spends too much time on the typical thing of "it costs too much because it's only 20 minutes long" but here's another review I saw:
https://noisypixel.net/cannon-dancer-osman-review/

No specific reference to lag but does comment on "precise control."

[Klatrymadon]

I've only seen one source I trust talking about it, and according to them it has no default arcade mode. The standard mode allows cheats and saving, etc, and the 'challenge' mode allows enhancements such as being invincible during most of your animations. So, two cheat modes. It's a coffee table book for Collectors and Unboxers, and not really aimed at anyone who would want to play it...

[Bassa-Bassa]

lol

[cfx]

I've only seen one source I trust talking about it, and according to them it has no default arcade mode. The standard mode allows cheats and saving, etc, and the 'challenge' mode allows enhancements such as being invincible during most of your animations. So, two cheat modes. It's a coffee table book for Collectors and Unboxers, and not really aimed at anyone who would want to play it...

This is correct. This video review isn't useful otherwise, but at about 18 seconds in you can see the main menu and the description of the two modes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7OiYTpQbz0

[Marc]

Normal mode ALLOWS you to take upgrades, it doesn't force you.....
It's pretty much the equivalent of complaining about Ports that allow infinite credits. You don't have to use them. This place baffles me at times. Are we really at a point where anything that isn't M2 quality is shat on? It's a decent port of a previously MIA classic.

[Bassa-Bassa]

It's pretty much the equivalent of complaining about Ports that allow infinite credits. You don't have to use them.

It's night and day, if I inderstood correctly, though? Ports which allow infinite credits are mimicking the original arcade game - you get a game over message after losing your lives and if you continue you know you're cheating. It may not be immediately evident for a total newcomer (and that's indeed a flaw) but for the rest it's common knowledge at this point. Here in this game you're suggesting that the player must refrain himself from picking or using one certain "enhancement" offered within the play itself??

And anyway, what's the freaking reason not to place there the original game together with whatever silly mode they can invent, I wonder.

[Ghegs]

The player has to make the conscious decision to activate any cheats or enhancements, they are all off by default. While I do agree that a plain Arcade Mode without even the option to turn them on would've been better, this is very a much a non-issue. The original game is there and you can play it just fine. Marc's point about ports with infinite credits is right on the money. The option is there, it can even help out in practicing some sections, and when you want to be all serious about the game, you can.

[Bassa-Bassa]

So if it's just an option in the config menu, there's some misunderstanding here, indeed, thanks.

[Rastan78]

M2 also adds optional changes to make things easier, especially in the Sega Ages line. I don't have issue with that as long as it can be all left toggled off and so forth.

Their solution here seems messy though. Why bother with the two modes at all if cheats are still available in some form. Yet they take away save states?

As long as the rewind button can be unbound I guess it's all good. That a personal pet peeve of mine, having to put rewind on L3 or some out of the way button bc you can't make it disappear.

Are there online leaderboards? The price is looking pretty steep for what this has honestly.

[Ghegs]

Their solution here seems messy though. Why bother with the two modes at all if cheats are still available in some form. Yet they take away save states?

As long as the rewind button can be unbound I guess it's all good. That a personal pet peeve of mine, having to put rewind on L3 or some out of the way button bc you can't make it disappear.

Are there online leaderboards? The price is looking pretty steep for what this has honestly.

It is a weird design choice, yeah. Why separate cheats and enhancements, yet allow to use some of them anyway? Really odd. Would've been much clearer had there been an Arcade Mode with none of that, and a Practice/Home/Console Mode, with the latter having both cheats and enhancements available in one list. As it is, both Standard and Challenge Mode are the same, original game, as long as you don't activate any of the extra options and don't use save states. If you care about the console-specific achievements, those can only be unlocked by playing Challenge Mode.

Both rewind and fast forward buttons can be unmapped completely. When configuring the controls, just press the button they're currently mapped to.

No online leaderboards as far as I can tell, at least on the Switch version.

[DenimDemon]

I’ve got it on Switch physical already for a few months now. It’s a pretty cool port if a bit barebones.
But the core is pretty solid, visual, sound and input. Also the scanlines filters don’t look bad at all for a change.
The other day was comparing the color between cab vs switch. Tough cab is wired to the Raspberry so that was a rom.
Switch port is fine, pretty happy with it.
Now they’ve could had gone the extra mile and add stuff like replay/online…
And the the cheats are optional. Had a lot of fun messing with auto fire, dude becomes Bruce Lee lightning fast lol

[Marc]

Arcade mode is even limited to 1 credit. The arcade game is there with a decent selection of screen options
The rest? I can imagine a few top tier players here doing a quick run just for laughs.

[Klatrymadon]

The last post was perhaps worded somewhat abrasively, but yeah, this port is lacking a common enough feature I happen to regard as important, and this puts me outside its target audience. (Every £6 ACA release has a tacked-on high score mode with a little leaderboard, so I don't think I'm being too fuddy-duddy in preferring to see one here.)

Wasn't expecting to be positioned as a spokesperson for the forum's crank hive mind over this, lol. FWIW I buy most ports that come out and have skipped a couple of M2's.

[Some-Mist]

having played it before reading through the thread, yes, I purposely avoided enhancements on my first and subsequent playthroughs because I knew it wouldn't otherwise replicate the experience I was looking for.
someone who is a newcomer might find those enhancements really beneficial because it's a hard game! and even if they don't know better who cares?

I was a little confused at first when I realized there wasn't an arcade mode option and wish it was included tbh, but I'll take what I can get in this case.

[Bassa-Bassa]

I was a little confused at first when I realized there wasn't an arcade mode option and wish it was included tbh

But there is?



If the enhancements are options and are off as default, I think it's more or less clear for anybody how to play the original game?

I honestly fail to understand now what's Klatrymadon's complaint about.

[Some-Mist]

that's what I've been playing with enhancements off and I've been enjoying it, but I was sort of agreeing with your original post that something more "mame-like" without the options for enhancements would make things so much cleaner/easier.
as someone who knows what their looking for it took a couple of seconds to figure out the best option on my end

[Some-Mist]

I honestly fail to understand now what's Klatrymadon's complaint about.

also to circle back on this I guess I'll put it this way. if you play a lot of arcade games after fiddling around with the options what mode do you usually look for? for me it's usually score attack which is typically the vanilla game with no option for additional credits or no added features in the game with online leaderboards.

so when you booted up cannon dancer for the first time and looked for that game mode and were met with "enhancements", was it not initially confusing?

that's likely where the complaint came from

[Klatrymadon]

Exactly. I'm hardly a firebrand on the question of 'authenticity' - I think you should play whatever you want in whatever way you want, and ignore anyone who tells you otherwise. But a forum full of arcade fans shouldn't be astonished that I might want a mode which runs as closely as possible to the original game, or in which my scores might have some basic parity with the next guy's, etc. I'd like to see more choice here, not less - knockabout modes alongside more 'serious' ones, rather than one replacing the other.

[Bassa-Bassa]

As someone who indeed rarely cares about extra modes nor extra options including difficulty settings because usually the normal mode already requires enough time and attention, I still don't follow. Right, it's unfortunate that they haven't been more explicit about what these "enhancements" are so that anybody just wanting the original game doesn't think even for a moment that those aren't brand-new cheating options, but so much as to say that the game's not aimed at anyone wanting to play it or that it has no default arcade mode? You get precisely that if you just don't touch the option menu despite the unorthodox mode naming, don't you?

As for the issue of not being able to properly compare scores with other people because they may be using "enhancements" without notice, I'll go and ask this - what if they use autofire? Or just a much better controller and display than yours?

[Rastan78]

Right, it's unfortunate that they haven't been more explicit about what these "enhancements" are so that anybody just wanting the original game doesn't think even for a moment that those aren't brand-new cheating options, but so much as to say that the game's not aimed at anyone wanting to play it or that it has no default arcade mode?

The enhancements options are:
Double jump
Invincible jump
Invincible slide
Invincible attack
Autofire (speeds 1-5)

[cfx]

But a forum full of arcade fans shouldn't be astonished that I might want a mode which runs as closely as possible to the original game, or in which my scores might have some basic parity with the next guy's, etc.

This is why:

It's a coffee table book for Collectors and Unboxers, and not really aimed at anyone who would want to play it...

You shouldn't be astonished you got the reaction you did to this ridiculous hyperbole.

[Some-Mist]

As someone who indeed rarely cares about extra modes nor extra options including difficulty settings because usually the normal mode already requires enough time and attention, I still don't follow. Right, it's unfortunate that they haven't been more explicit about what these "enhancements" are so that anybody just wanting the original game doesn't think even for a moment that those aren't brand-new cheating options, but so much as to say that the game's not aimed at anyone wanting to play it or that it has no default arcade mode? You get precisely that if you just don't touch the option menu despite the unorthodox mode naming, don't you?

As for the issue of not being able to properly compare scores with other people because they may be using "enhancements" without notice, I'll go and ask this - what if they use autofire? Or just a much better controller and display than yours?

It’s not tucked away in some option menu, when you select challenge mode you have to consciously skip over the list of enhancements despite it telling you that you can select up to two, and select the game start option at the bottom of the menu list to play the “arcade mode“.

It really sounds like you haven’t checked it out for yourself which makes it even weirder that you’re trying to argue about it lol

[Bassa-Bassa]

It’s not tucked away in some option menu, when you select challenge mode you have to consciously skip over the list of enhancements despite it telling you that you can select up to two, and select the game start option at the bottom of the menu list to play the “arcade mode“.

It really sounds like you haven’t checked it out for yourself which makes it even weirder that you’re trying to argue about it lol

I'm not trying to argue about it, I was tying to understand what the issue is because I indeed haven't checked it out that far. Now I see how it really is thanks to your explanation (and Rastan78's), I can certainly relate. One has to wonder now how much of Ratalaika's own vision is in Clockwork Aquario.

[Sumez]

It's not a dealbreaker, but I do think "This challenge mode allows you to experience the game just like in the arcade. We do allow you to pick up to two cheats, but no cheating allowed!" sends extremely mixed messages, which are less than desired.

That sort of approach doesn't prevent you from enjoying the game like it should be (I'm assuming, based on what people here are saying), but it paints a pretty clear picture of where the dev's priorities lie, or rather where they don't. It's the kind of red flag that makes me worry about a bunch of other potential issues that might not have been completely documented yet.

At least it's not as bad as having a rewind button built into the default control sceheme, but I can understand Klatrymadon's point of view.

[Some-Mist]

definitely not a dealbreaker
we've just had our expectations spoiled by the hamster arcade archives and other similar efforts

[BIL]

I used to wonder why it's apparently so difficult for other devs to do what Hamster does with ACA: serious, disciplined, reference-standard home releases, with solid fundamentals and a minimum of frills. Particularly when their release frequency is typically a tiny fraction of ACA's, and their cost far higher.

Of course, ACA Omega Fighter Special, Thunder Dragon 2, and Cybattler don't have the extensive gadgets, practice tools, and arrange content of the ShotTriggers versions. But they equal them on fundamentals: painstakingly-accurate emulation, with no perceptible input lag on my expensive gaming monitor and custom stick, plus raw pixel output, full button remap, autofire, and a savestate. Also, they've quite the ace up their sleeve: they exist.

I'm pretty sure, at this point, it comes down to craftsmanship. A passion for bringing games on ancient, fragile, expensive hardware to modern console, in reference-standard quality. I'd kill for ACA Demon Front. I'm sure I'd put hundreds of hours on it, like I did the ACA NeoGeo Metal Slugs. I own all of those on MVS cart, but like hell was I gonna lug them from home to my current contract at Crackpipe Avenue on the corner of RumpyPumpy BLVD.

As it is, I'm left spinning the chamber on whether that IGS collection is some kind of fucked, should it appear on PS4. It's not about price, I just hate wasting my time on potentially shitty products.

Not to complain too much. I'm kept perfectly happy by M2 and Hamster's respective masteries of the super-deluxe and no-frills home arcade domains; never mind the occasional outlier that approaches their quality, like Capcom Belt Action Collection. Just seems a bit ridiculous that the notion of no-frills yet high-quality individual releases is apparently so elusive!

re this release; the upgrades sound bizarre, but as long as they're strictly optional, they don't sound any more obtrusive than, say, GNG Resurrection's optional extra checkpoints. Weird, but not the dealbreaker it would've been.