M2 ShotTriggers DDP Daioujou Rinne Tensei

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Are all the various DDP-DOJ games found within M2's Rinne Tensei Switch/PS4 release running the original arcade roms but within M2's custom arcade emulator or is it a custom Mame emulator type of setup instead?

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Steven]

"I only play CAVE games even though I think they are shit"

uh

whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Why not play something else if you think these games are poorly designed (they aren't)? This isn't my favourite developer or anything, but even I've been having a lot of fun with Saidaioujou (which is the best one, BTW) for the past few days.

Go try some Thunder Force or GG Aleste 3 or Kamui or Soukyuugurentai or Out Zone or Kyuukyoku Tiger or anything else! Other things exist and there's no need, or logical reason, to force yourself to play things that you hate!

Also, play Arrange S. It's very, very easy if you play for survival. I don't play or even like bullet hell that much but I 1CCed it the first time I played it, having never even seen beyond stage 2 in the normal versions of the game before in my life, let alone fighting Hibachi at any point outside of Saidaioujou's X360 mode, which is harder than Arrange S. All you really have to do to clear Arrange S is chill at the bottom of the screen holding shot and move left and right as needed on occasion and that's about it. No idea how to play it for score, but it probably gets harder if you do that.

[DrTrouserPlank]

I wouldn't say they are "shit" or poorly designed. You have taken them being unfair and not balanced to mean they are poorly designed. I think they are designed exactly as intended and it depends on what measure you use to define if this is poor design. In the case of a console of PC game this might be a fault in the design or balance, but as an arcade game I think it is less of a fault and more of a conscious design choice to maximise revenue for operators.

In an objective sense the games are way too hard, and expect you to perform hundreds of dodges that are highly likely to fail over the course of a half-hour run making a 1cc all but impossible for any of their games. If this was a console game and you only had one credit to clear it, and it forced you to the game over screen after losing those lives, then it would be absurdly over-tuned and would be legitimate bad design.

The whole question of whether or not these games are badly designed depends on the parameters and perspective from which you consider that question, as the answer can vary greatly depending on the context.

[ChurchOfSolipsism]

You have taken them being unfair and not balanced to mean they are poorly designed. ...

In an objective sense the games are way too hard

I think I speak for everyone here when I say that you just seem to be a wimp gameswise. If you keep repeating the nonsense you typed above (despite getting pointers, encouragement, and explanations on why these games are "objectively" excellent for what feels like years), expect people to not engage with you over these things anymore and instead just tell you to get good. I honestly dislike being so negative because I don't like being a dick to people online, but your whining and non-informed ramblings are getting tedious. Just don't play games you don't like and you'll be a lot happier, and so will everybody else.

[Steven]

Although I would absolutely consider a game that is poorly balanced to be badly designed, or at least to have some bad design decisions, this game isn't unfair or poorly balanced. It's just difficult. I don't think I have ever played anything that is unfair unless you count that hilarious obstacle that you instantly smash into in the first second of Star Evil on Action 52 unless you immediately hold right, but if you want something that's actually poorly balanced, try Tatsujin Ou.

[clippa]

I only really play Cave's games. I've tried other shmups but I wouldn't bother devoting a lot of time to any of the one's I've played.

That might be the problem. Have you tried the x.x gameroom stuff?
I think Blue Wish Desire and Blue Wish Resurrection Plus would be right up your street. They're very cave, but the difficulty is more forgiving.

https://xxgameroom.itch.io/blue-wish-resurrection-plus
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1794 ... SH_DESIRE/

Honestly, a lot of caves games are pretty tricky and jumping in at the deep end isn't the best approach for everyone. It sounds like you just need to build up your shmup muscle, get some more clears and confidence and then you'll come back to cave games ready for revenge.

I think most of the difficulty in DOJ black label loop one comes from finding a route through the stages. Once you've done that, everything falls into place. It felt like one of the easier cave clears to me, but to hear you calling it impossible, it did feel like that when I first started playing it. I do think you're giving up too early.

[Steven]

I'd also throw RefRain - prism memories - and Blue Revolver on the recommendations pile.

[ChurchOfSolipsism]

I only really play Cave's games. I've tried other shmups but I wouldn't bother devoting a lot of time to any of the one's I've played.

That might be the problem. Have you tried the x.x gameroom stuff?
I think Blue Wish Desire and Blue Wish Resurrection Plus would be right up your street. They're very cave, but the difficulty is more forgiving.

https://xxgameroom.itch.io/blue-wish-resurrection-plus
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1794 ... SH_DESIRE/

Honestly, a lot of caves games are pretty tricky and jumping in at the deep end isn't the best approach for everyone. It sounds like you just need to build up your shmup muscle, get some more clears and confidence and then you'll come back to cave games ready for revenge.

I think most of the difficulty in DOJ black label loop one comes from finding a route through the stages. Once you've done that, everything falls into place. It felt like one of the easier cave clears to me, but to hear you calling it impossible, it did feel like that when I first started playing it. I do think you're giving up too early.

Good tips, which I'm sure he will completely ignore as usual

[Steven]

The other day I said I don't really have much interest in 1-ALLing CAVE games, but all of this has made me want to do it for both Daioujou Black Label and possibly Saidaioujou, the latter of which I'm considering learning how to play for score. I'm 3/5 of the way there for Black Label already anyway, so I might as well do the final two stages. Need a better controller for Saidaioujou, though, as I've been using a regular 360 controller this whole time.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

I have a Hori Real Arcade Pro VX-SE Kai arcade stick that's made for Xbox 360 and comes with all Seimitsu arcade parts factory installed from the get-go. It's awesome to use with the 360 port of DDP-SDOJ (as playing it with a regular stock 360 controller won't do). It sure makes quite a difference with the proper arcade controls -- of course YMMV. Sure, Hori has sold other RAP sticks for the 360 gaming platform including the solid performing Hori RAP-EX arcade stick (which uses the classic "old-school" RAP stick base setup found on the PSX/PS2 Hori RAP lineup back in the day) which I own as well.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[ChurchOfSolipsism]

I have a Hori Real Arcade Pro VX-SE Kai arcade stick that's made for Xbox 360 and comes with all Seimitsu arcade parts factory installed from the get-go. It's awesome to use with the 360 port of DDP-SDOJ (as playing it with a regular stock 360 controller won't do). It sure makes quite a difference with the proper arcade controls -- of course YMMV. Sure, Hori has sold other RAP sticks for the 360 including the solid performer Hori RAP-EX arcade stick which I own as well.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

Yeah a proper stick makes a huge difference; as I said before, the dpad on the Switch'es stock controller drives me crazy, what a piece of shit (it's also impossible to properly play other twitchy games like Ghosts'n Goblins). Used to have a homemade stick that used all Seimitsu parts, but I felt that the Seimitsu buttons offered too much resistance, and when I replaced them with Sanwa buttons everything clicked. So for shmups, Seimitsu LS32 plus Sanwa buttons is the perfect combo that I also use in my shmup cab.

[Steven]

I hate sticks so much lol. That's why I was playing Daioujou on Switch, as it has a pretty decent Saturn controller... which is now broken from light occasional use, so I guess it isn't actually all that decent. I've changed to playing it on PS5 with a regular PS5 controller, which is still not as good as a Saturn controller, but still better than the alternatives on Switch. I was playing with a stick on PS5, but then noticed an immediate improvement when I started using the PS5 controller.

I'd love nothing more than to use a keyboard, but...

[MOSQUITO FIGHTER]

Can someone tell me how to pick the blue and yellow ships? I saw someone using those on youtube and I had no idea about that.

[Steven]

Pretty sure those are the 2P side ships.

[MOSQUITO FIGHTER]

Pretty sure those are the 2P side ships.

Oh, thanks. I was thinking it was a button combination like Battle Garegga

[Steven]

It also seems that the 2P side ships have less hyper i-frames during boss fights, so you probably won't want to use them.

viewtopic.php?t=64256

[wiNteR]

I was watching a video of this and a question came to my mind. Consider the following two scenarios:
(1) You have a stock of x4 hypers and non-zero bombs available. After activating a hyper we get to x3 hypers. Now suppose that during the activation of this hyper we have to use a bomb. As I understand, the hyper will be canceled and a bomb will be deducted.

(2) You have a stock of x4 hypers and no bombs available. After activating a hyper we get to x3 hypers. Now suppose that during the activation of this hyper we press the bomb button again. There seem to be following possibilities here (perhaps):
(a) Another hyper is activated and we get to x2 hypers.
(b) Another hyper is activated and we get to x0 hypers.
(c) Nothing happens at all.
(d) Something else happens.

==============

Also, regarding another point, is there any bullet cancellation/removal (perhaps very limited) upon activating a hyper?

On a similar point, I noticed that there apparently seems to be some sort of (perhaps very limited) bullet cancellation towards the end of a hyper duration. My guess is that it is signal of bullet speeds getting back to normal/pre-hyper levels? However, is there any actual bullet cancellation or not? Or is this actually only related to hyper gauge filling up (and the first sentence of the paragraph isn't valid)?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Are you referring to a specific mode? Or just one of the arcade modes (known as White Label or Black Label sometimes)? I'm not familiar with any that let you use only one hyper and hang onto the remaining stocks. How it normally works is:

• You build up hyper by attacking enemies, as well as collecting bees while you have a large combo going. When the hyper meter fills, a hyper item is generated and falls from the top of the screen. I think this causes a splitsecond fullscreen bullet cancel in some cases such as against bosses? I can't remember the details of how this bullet cancel works, but I know it feels like something that can't be manipulated reliably enough to count on it.

• You can hold up to 5 hypers total. Using a hyper causes you to immediately use all hypers stocked, with your hyper strength being anywhere from level 1 to level 5 (the same as how many you had at the time you used it). Higher levels provide a boost to the per-hit increase on the combo meter as well as a slight damage increase. Using a hyper gives you a very brief period of invulnerability and cancels any onscreen bullets.

• Rank is increased during the hyper. Using a hyper also increases the overall game rank a bit, but not so much that using a hyper and then bombing for safety is discouraged. Do it if you need to.

• You can bomb to end the hyper immediately. Note that dying when a hyper is active is usually Very Bad as you won't see your maximum bomb stock increase. Your maximum bomb stock (6 for shot, 4 for laser, 2 for expert) only increases if you die when not in hyper state.

• I don't think bullets are cancelled when the hyper ends.

• Pressing the hyper/bomb button when you have 0 bombs remaining does nothing, you can't force the hyper state to end early.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Also you can easily see how much remaining Hyper is left on the Hyper gauge meter when playing either DDP-DOJ WL or BL variant -- this applies to the original Cave/IGS jamma pcb, PGM cart running on PGM motherboard, Mame rom, Switch and PS4 ports as well. Of course, your YMMV depending on how you play DDP-DOJ via arcade pcb (the best & preferred way to play it on a candy cab or supergun as it is meant to be played), Mame emulation or gaming consoles.

The on-board Varta battery on a typical DDP-DOJ pcb wiill need to be checked and replaced (if it needed be) as not to have battery acid corrosion affect the pcb traces itself -- it's all part of general upkeep/maintenance of owning/playing with arcade jamma pcbs nowadays.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Also you can easily see how much remaining Hyper is left on the Hyper gauge meter when playing either DDP-DOJ WL or BL variant -- this applies to the original Cave/IGS jamma pcb, PGM cart running on PGM motherboard

Do you know if there's any meaningful differences between the PGM versions and the original PCB releases? I honestly can't seem to see any!

I do appreciate later games like Espgaluda, DFK, and SDOJ having a visual meter around your ship so when your hyper is about to run out you have a visual warning as opposed to checking the top of the screen. That's a nice little touch, much like Mushi Futari putting a thin boss healthbar along the bottom of the screen, so if you're dodging at the bottom you have an easy visual reference.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Both the original Cave/IGS DDP-DOJ pcb and the unofficial PGM DDP-DOJ (in both WL and BL variants) cart releases are the same -- the pcb version has both the game roms integrated on a handy single-layered pcb combined with an IGS arcade motherboard. The former is more desirable but commands high prices on the secondary arcade pcb collector's market whereas with the latter, it's cheaper on the wallet/purse monetary-wise and not having to deal with the above aforementioned Varta battery leakage issues whatsoever associated with a real genuine DDP-DOJ pcb (which is a positive plus/merit in my book). Can't go wrong with either DDP-DOJ arcade pcb or PGM cartridge format chosen within the arcade pcb hobby these days.

The above info in regards to the the original Cave/IGS arcade pcbs of ESPgaluda and Ketsui & unofficial PGM carts of ESPgaluda and Ketsui will apply as well.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Ms. Tea]

Yeah, the PGM carts are bootlegs where the only difference is that the copy protection has been stripped. There aren't any actual changes to the gameplay whatsoever.

[Kiken]

Yeah, the PGM carts are bootlegs where the only difference is that the copy protection has been stripped. There aren't any actual changes to the gameplay whatsoever.

That and the fact that the PGM boots are really trashy. On both carts I purchased (Ketsui and ESPGaluda) I had to open up the carts to remove a pair of plastic tabs inside the case as they were putting pressure on the boards causing them to flex.

[ThundergunExpress]

For anyone who is feeling that this game is too difficult, I cannot recommend playing Arcade Challenge enough. I really wish Osarai and Arcade Challenge were available for Black Label, but we can't get everything we dream of. Play whatever section is giving you the most difficulty, and relax. It's a training tool so no pressure. The worst thing that could possibly happen is you fail the challenge- who cares you can just start it over and you'll probably already see improvement. Osarai basically then allows you to get to the spot from your last run and you can apply your training from arcade challenge. When you feel comfortable with the section through these training tools you are ready to try another run where you will most likely run into another problematic section, but at least this time you'll know how to train to overcome the obstacles.

The beauty of Arcade Challenge is that whenever you die in one, it basically creates a new mini challenge out of your death. Dying is a good thing in this mode. It will take you back to a new starting place based on your death and won't allow you to progress in the actual challenge until you conquer whatever section of it you died in. It's brilliant.


Tldr; Use the training tools provided with the game. They're invaluable and will turn you into someone capable of putting it all together for a 1CC and are a massive reason I love these M2 ShotTriggers releases.

[Tim James]

For anyone who is feeling that this game is too difficult, I cannot recommend playing Arcade Challenge enough. I really wish Osarai and Arcade Challenge were available for Black Label, but we can't get everything we dream of. Play whatever section is giving you the most difficulty, and relax. It's a training tool so no pressure. The worst thing that could possibly happen is you fail the challenge- who cares you can just start it over and you'll probably already see improvement. Osarai basically then allows you to get to the spot from your last run and you can apply your training from arcade challenge. When you feel comfortable with the section through these training tools you are ready to try another run where you will most likely run into another problematic section, but at least this time you'll know how to train to overcome the obstacles.

The beauty of Arcade Challenge is that whenever you die in one, it basically creates a new mini challenge out of your death. Dying is a good thing in this mode. It will take you back to a new starting place based on your death and won't allow you to progress in the actual challenge until you conquer whatever section of it you died in. It's brilliant.


Tldr; Use the training tools provided with the game. They're invaluable and will turn you into someone capable of putting it all together for a 1CC and are a massive reason I love these M2 ShotTriggers releases.

I wish this existed in every shmup. I'm working on a 1CC of Crimzon Clover and I find the first half of stage 3 to be utterly boring. I'd love to start it in the middle. Perhaps the thing I hate most about videogames is replaying easy parts (or cutscenes, hah) to get to the hard part.

People have been spoiled with save states but we need stuff like this for all the retail releases as well.

[beer gas canister]

For anyone who is feeling that this game is too difficult, I cannot recommend playing Arcade Challenge enough. I really wish Osarai and Arcade Challenge were available for Black Label, but we can't get everything we dream of. Play whatever section is giving you the most difficulty, and relax. It's a training tool so no pressure. The worst thing that could possibly happen is you fail the challenge- who cares you can just start it over and you'll probably already see improvement. Osarai basically then allows you to get to the spot from your last run and you can apply your training from arcade challenge. When you feel comfortable with the section through these training tools you are ready to try another run where you will most likely run into another problematic section, but at least this time you'll know how to train to overcome the obstacles.

The beauty of Arcade Challenge is that whenever you die in one, it basically creates a new mini challenge out of your death. Dying is a good thing in this mode. It will take you back to a new starting place based on your death and won't allow you to progress in the actual challenge until you conquer whatever section of it you died in. It's brilliant.


Tldr; Use the training tools provided with the game. They're invaluable and will turn you into someone capable of putting it all together for a 1CC and are a massive reason I love these M2 ShotTriggers releases.

I wish this existed in every shmup. I'm working on a 1CC of Crimzon Clover and I find the first half of stage 3 to be utterly boring. I'd love to start it in the middle. Perhaps the thing I hate most about videogames is replaying easy parts (or cutscenes, hah) to get to the hard part.

People have been spoiled with save states but we need stuff like this for all the retail releases as well.

Iirc Crimzon Clover does have a detailed practice mode, and it may allow you to start mid-stage at least

Re: DOJ, It's possible to mimick BL's behavior by turning the difficulty down to 8 or so in the Arcade Challenge modes. Easy to miss in the menus, but among the various parameters is a bar that runs horizontally that represents difficulty. It's maxed by default.

[ThundergunExpress]

For anyone who is feeling that this game is too difficult, I cannot recommend playing Arcade Challenge enough. I really wish Osarai and Arcade Challenge were available for Black Label, but we can't get everything we dream of. Play whatever section is giving you the most difficulty, and relax. It's a training tool so no pressure. The worst thing that could possibly happen is you fail the challenge- who cares you can just start it over and you'll probably already see improvement. Osarai basically then allows you to get to the spot from your last run and you can apply your training from arcade challenge. When you feel comfortable with the section through these training tools you are ready to try another run where you will most likely run into another problematic section, but at least this time you'll know how to train to overcome the obstacles.

The beauty of Arcade Challenge is that whenever you die in one, it basically creates a new mini challenge out of your death. Dying is a good thing in this mode. It will take you back to a new starting place based on your death and won't allow you to progress in the actual challenge until you conquer whatever section of it you died in. It's brilliant.


Tldr; Use the training tools provided with the game. They're invaluable and will turn you into someone capable of putting it all together for a 1CC and are a massive reason I love these M2 ShotTriggers releases.

I wish this existed in every shmup. I'm working on a 1CC of Crimzon Clover and I find the first half of stage 3 to be utterly boring. I'd love to start it in the middle. Perhaps the thing I hate most about videogames is replaying easy parts (or cutscenes, hah) to get to the hard part.

People have been spoiled with save states but we need stuff like this for all the retail releases as well.

Iirc Crimzon Clover does have a detailed practice mode, and it may allow you to start mid-stage at least

Re: DOJ, It's possible to mimick BL's behavior by turning the difficulty down to 8 or so in the Arcade Challenge modes. Easy to miss in the menus, but among the various parameters is a bar that runs horizontally that represents difficulty. It's maxed by default.

Thank you! I had a feeling that I could mimic Black Label in AC but wasn't sure of the settings.

[jehu]

I realize it's a suboptimal alternative to having a real BL training mode, but it might help to train on WL practice if you're going for a first BL survival clear. The tolerances for WL are significantly tighter, so it genuinely does feel like taking off your training weights when you switch.

I'd been trying not to play BL on the port before I got satisfied with my WL score, but I couldn't help myself today. Third attempt cleared, happily. Felt good sticking to my WL survival route without any issue (besides tucking yourself in the bottom-left corner after stage three midboss - I don't think it works in BL).

[Steven]

I found a glitch, although it's not something that is important at all. I started Black Label, walked away to go do something and let the attract mode play, and then when I came back and pressed start it gave me a trophy for doing a 1000 hit chain. I guess the chain during the attract mode counts for that for some reason, although I don't remember exactly where it was during the attract mode that I pressed start. I don't care about trophies or whatever, but it seems that M2 put this release out without a thorough bug check on both systems.

Still wondering how that weird freezing/pausing/skipping glitch on the Switch version got past them because that bug even happens if you autoboot to the most recently played game, so you can enjoy (?) the experience of the game freezing and resuming itself while you're playing the first half of the first stage.

[DrTrouserPlank]

What I'd really like to do is be able to play this game on something like difficulty 7 from the arcade challenge mode for the entire game. Sadly there is no way to achieve this without having the rewind feature cutting in all the time. You'd still have something that would be very hard to 1cc but it wouldn't be utterly pointless like the default settings. Setting any of the arcade modes to easy doesn't get close to this unfortunately. It barely seems to make any difference to anything.