Raiden III x MIKADO MANIAX

[Klatrymadon]

It's a great port, too. The Mikado Remix version of IV was offputtingly stuttery (not just at certain chokepoints but from the start and throughout), whereas this seems to run perfectly and feels exactly like the PS2 port to me. III has always been my favourite game in the series by some distance, so I'm really glad this second Mikado release turned out better. I don't enjoy getting rid of old stuff, but now that I have this and an HDD installed in my PS2, I should really consider offloading my Korean PS2 copy.

[BIL]

I wonder what the native refresh rates are for Raiden III and Raiden IV. I get the feeling Mikado IV is merely running at the game's native sub-60hz refresh, like countless other ports this gen from M2 and Hamster... only, being full 3D with lots of cinematic camera sweeps, the usual ~1hz stutter jars extra-hard. Makes me curious as to if they switched to 60hz for Mikado III, or if that's the game's native refresh, unlike the earlier Seibu STGs. III also did away with horizontal scrolling, another winning move imo.

I know when I first fired IV up I thought "Holy fuck, oof!" Especially after the silky-smooth Caladrius Blaze. Got used to it pretty fast once the camera was firmly anchored to the ceiling, though, between the lightning-fast input response and similarly harrowing bullet speed.

It's one of those "have to look for it, then can't un-see it, then I forget and have to look for it again" things, for me. I find it more obnoxious in stuff like ACA Kid Niki or Vigilante, relatively amiable sidescrollers with comparative aeons to notice the chop, but even there, it goes away when the pants-shitting do/die danger ensues.

I hear PS5 has VRR support now, all the way down to ~40hz. I hope we'll see the refresh rate bugbear done away with, over the course of this gen. It's the only issue I have with an otherwise unprecedentedly good slate of home conversions (counting the PS4's stuff).

A death or dishonour thing, it seems. 3; I saw over at Tetrisconcept that apparently Hamster were considering their usual board-accurate refresh for TGM2, but Mihara - possibly after contemplating an authentic Edo-period katana while muttering a gruff "Shikata na gai" - advised they run it at 60hz. I appreciated that. I always go with 60hz over board refresh, if given the option (as most of the ACA Namco stuff does, lots of those games natively running at slightly over 60hz). I never thought R-Types suffered much from the speed bump, and I was finding Saigo no Nindou similarly agreeable when locked to 60hz in MAME, revisiting my old WinXP machine recently. Granted I've played the hell out of both, but I learned ImageFight's first loop on the same setup, too. I'd rather deal with a minor speed bump than a perpetual if mostly ignorable ~1hz nag.

[nZero]

I wonder what the native refresh rates are for Raiden III and Raiden IV. I get the feeling Mikado IV is merely running at the game's native sub-60hz refresh, like countless other ports this gen from M2 and Hamster... only, being full 3D with lots of cinematic camera sweeps, the usual ~1hz stutter jars extra-hard. Makes me curious as to if they switched to 60hz for Mikado III, or if that's the game's native refresh, unlike the earlier Seibu STGs. III also did away with horizontal scrolling, another winning move imo. :cool:

Taito Type X arcade hardware is locked to 60Hz though, and even if it wasn't it'd be odd for one to have a different native refresh since both games are on that same hardware.

[BIL]

Taito Type X arcade hardware is locked to 60Hz though, and even if it wasn't it'd be odd for one to have a different native refresh since both games are on that same hardware.

I'd wondered about that, re: Type X (basically a dongled PC-in-a-cab, if I recall?). I did some mild googling, after getting the PS4 version of Mikado IV recently, and found people saying the Steam version is capped to ~59fps... which made me think the arcade game was wangled down to sub-60hz too, I had to guess for old times' sake (?).

I know Raiden IV's 360 port appeared to be 60hz, no hitches I can recall there. And people say the Steam version of IV Overkill is 60fps, too. I wonder if they seriously just screwed up the refresh rate on Mikado IV somehow? That seems absolutely nuts, particularly with it remaining unpatched for so long, and Caladrius Blaze / Mikado III on either side running at a perfect 60hz. But if the arcade version of Raiden IV really is 60hz, I don't know why they'd saddle a re-release (particularly an ostensibly fan-targeted one) with a such a pointless annoyance.

[Steven]

My framerate counter says Raiden IV Mikado is 57FPS on PC. I don't have Overkill and it's now impossible to get, so I don't know about that version.

[m.sniffles.esq]

Has anyone grabbed this for Xbox?
I'm guessing it probably plays the same as the PS4 version, but with people belly-aching about the Switch version, I just want to be double-certain if possible.

Edit: I just went ahead, and in the past 40 minutes or so that I've been playing, everything seems golden.

[BIL]

My framerate counter says Raiden IV Mikado is 57FPS on PC.

Hmm, that's what I heard... thanks for confirming!

Could they have dropped the FPS to sub-60hz for some corny-ass "real retro feel" reason? I hope not. That shit is poison, son. The past ain't dead, games ain't people, you want to play Raiden DX get a fuckin board. Don't shit up my beautiful Nu Raidens

[BrianC]

I know earlier versions of Crimzon Clover on Steam were stuck at ~57 FPS with v-sync on some NVIDIA cards, though the issue was fixed with the World Explosion version and didn't have the issue on the newer computers with the later NVIDIA cards. Some games like Trails in the Sky I had to manually set the frame limit to 60Hz with vsync off since the in-game limiter is buggy. Not sure if that would work with the Mikado version of Raiden IV since I already have the Overkill version and didn't see a reason to get the new one.

[sunnshiner]

Taito Type X arcade hardware is locked to 60Hz though, and even if it wasn't it'd be odd for one to have a different native refresh since both games are on that same hardware.

I'd wondered about that, re: Type X (basically a dongled PC-in-a-cab, if I recall?). I did some mild googling, after getting the PS4 version of Mikado IV recently, and found people saying the Steam version is capped to ~59fps... which made me think the arcade game was wangled down to sub-60hz too, I had to guess for old times' sake (?).

I know Raiden IV's 360 port appeared to be 60hz, no hitches I can recall there. And people say the Steam version of IV Overkill is 60fps, too. I wonder if they seriously just screwed up the refresh rate on Mikado IV somehow? That seems absolutely nuts, particularly with it remaining unpatched for so long, and Caladrius Blaze / Mikado III on either side running at a perfect 60hz. But if the arcade version of Raiden IV really is 60hz, I don't know why they'd saddle a re-release (particularly an ostensibly fan-targeted one) with a such a pointless annoyance.

PC Overkill has a slight stutter as well. I just play it in RPCS3 (60Hz) now.

[BIL]

Excellent info, cheers... I could swear the 360 port of vanilla IV was synced to 60hz, but it's been a while.

[sunnshiner]

Excellent info, cheers... I could swear the 360 port of vanilla IV was synced to 60hz, but it's been a while.

Yeah, it is. It runs ok in Xenia too.

[m.sniffles.esq]

There’s still some slowdown on some sections of Stage 4 onwards, mostly very busy segments.

Okay, just confirmed this does NOT happen on Xbox, even running two players. So I'm guessing it's identical to the ps4 version.

It other news, this game is fucking great. I know it's been a bunch of years, and there's been a bunch of Raidens, so my memory was kinda, sorta foggy. I mean, I remember playing/liking it, but specifics were kinda... unspecific...

But it all comes back... Just an awesome orgy of shit blowing up, and none of the attempts at slickness that the latter entries fell victim to.

[BrianC]

Taito Type X arcade hardware is locked to 60Hz though, and even if it wasn't it'd be odd for one to have a different native refresh since both games are on that same hardware.

I'd wondered about that, re: Type X (basically a dongled PC-in-a-cab, if I recall?). I did some mild googling, after getting the PS4 version of Mikado IV recently, and found people saying the Steam version is capped to ~59fps... which made me think the arcade game was wangled down to sub-60hz too, I had to guess for old times' sake (?).

I know Raiden IV's 360 port appeared to be 60hz, no hitches I can recall there. And people say the Steam version of IV Overkill is 60fps, too. I wonder if they seriously just screwed up the refresh rate on Mikado IV somehow? That seems absolutely nuts, particularly with it remaining unpatched for so long, and Caladrius Blaze / Mikado III on either side running at a perfect 60hz. But if the arcade version of Raiden IV really is 60hz, I don't know why they'd saddle a re-release (particularly an ostensibly fan-targeted one) with a such a pointless annoyance.

PC Overkill has a slight stutter as well. I just play it in RPCS3 (60Hz) now.

IV Overkill on Steam runs at 60 FPS for me. Mostly 61 FPS to be precise, even with V-Sync off. Did not notice any stutter.

I bought III for PS5 on digital and it also includes the PS4 version. Both seem to run nicely, but I'm not sure if the PS5 version has any extra lag.

[repoman]

I've been playing this and it's good. I like the fact that it's a bit streamlined compared to 4 and 5. But I do still get the occasional 'what hit me' death which seems to always be an issue for me with this series. Like orange bullets over brown backdrops can be a problem. It gets better when you're on the space levels later though.

[Steven]

So IV isn't supposed to run at 57 FPS? I might mess around with some stuff to see what happens, but I might start playing the PS4 version instead if I can't fix it. I'm getting the PC version of III as soon as it launches, so I'll see how that runs, too.

Is Switch III still weird or is it good now? I have been going to Mikado once every few days for the past few weeks and they have a small stack of limited edition copies there for sale and I have been thinking about getting it.

[Jonpachi]

I have PS5 versions of 3 and 4 arriving soon. I’ll check the frame counter on them just for fun.

[PsikyoPshumpPshooterP]

I just double dipped and got it on ps5. This port is amazing but it’s really difficult playing double mode on arcade stick

[Steven]

I just wish III+IV Maniax had a 1P/2P side switch, ala ACA Raiden; can't seem to figure out a way to play as Blue Ship (only got one controller). Is there any way to do this on PS4?

I seem to have missed this a while ago and you might have figured it out since it's been a few months, but IV definitely has it. After you choose your game mode there is an option that says Play Style, which lets you choose your player side.

[BIL]

Oh nice, cheers! I must've missed that on IV. tbh it's III that bugs me, with the blue ship having a speed advantage... every little helps, haha. I much prefer how IV did it, with a faster vs stronger ship choice. But it's past time I sorted out a proper arcade stick I can put on P2 side, anyway.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Back in the early to mid 1990s, the typical Raiden & Raiden II Dynamo upright cabs at my local arcade joints were populated with the American Happ Controls produced batwing joysticks & Happ push buttons to deal with -- so no traditional Japanese styled ball sticks whatsoever + no auto-fire on tap either. I recall having to press the fire button at a consistent rate if powered up with the beloved purple homing laser setup -- a real chore, especially if using it for longer gaming sessions (at least Seibu's The Raiden Project provided the PSX gamer with auto-fire if so desired -- which was a lifesaver for my fingers/thumb).

So yes BIL, a good console-based arcade stick will help you out indeed with those heated Raiden III/IV sessions -- they're "a dime a dozen" these days. Hori, Qanba & PDP make some good ones nowadays -- it's just a matter of deciding which one to buy to fit your shmupping needs.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Steven]

I tested the PC, Switch, and PS4 versions of IV Mikado Remix and the only one that doesn't have the weird stuttering is the Switch version, so maybe they fucked up the framerate on PS4 since that version came later and then used that as the base for the PC version. Should still be able to set the framerate to 60 on PC somehow.

[Jonpachi]

Back in the early to mid 1990s, the typical So yes BIL, a good console-based arcade stick will help you out indeed with those heated Raiden III/IV sessions -- they're "a dime a dozen" these days. Hori, Qanba & PDP make some good ones nowadays -- it's just a matter of deciding which one to buy to fit your shmupping needs.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

These versions have auto-fire by default, though no options for tweaking anything. It just says “shot” in the button config, but there’s no button-mashing required.

[BIL]

tbh the PS4 games I need external auto for are ACA NeoGeo with their ancient "Rapid On/Off" options, simply barbaric. 3; Cheers though PCEFX, always appreciate the reminder of the old days! Raiden was one of the vanishingly few arcade titles we had at release in our sleepy town, the other being the truly inescapable SFII CE. Both on the ol' Happ baseball bat grips, imported direct from the US, like so much other stuff, being a tiny island just south of Florida.

That's interesting to hear about the Switch version of Mikado IV, Steven! Jesus, I hope they should sort that out on PS4+Steam. Hard to really get into IV again when it plays worse than my ancient 360 port (which requires a similarly ancient 360). The Overkill etc extras are nice, but I just wanted the AC mode. At least the input response is ultra-sharp, I do tend to forget the framerate hitch once the intro flyby is over.

[Steven]

Framerate testing of Raiden IV Mikado

PS4 version running on PS5: https://youtu.be/woo-GSRasgU

PC with framerate counter: https://youtu.be/XhX6Jq3ned4

Separate PC test with more detailed framerate counter and extra info: https://youtu.be/Qds7bNVazzM

I didn't check to see if it runs better after getting a game over and playing again without closing the game. This isn't scientific testing or anything, but I'll see if I can figure out a way to get the PC version to run better. PS4 is fucked unless they actually patch it. No idea about the native PS5 version and no way to record Switch, but the Switch version seems to be the only one that actually runs properly right now. Switch has some audio weirdness going on, so no matter what version you play, it's fucked in some way.

Look how much faster it loads on PC than the PS4 version does on the PS5. I wonder how fast the native PS5 version loads.

[Jonpachi]

Native PS5 version of part 3 has 1 to 2 second load times from start to game, game to main menu, etc. It’s almost not noticeable.

Part 4 is much slower. More like 4 to 5 from menu to game.

4 is buttery smooth on native PS5 too.

I just put up stories for both on Instagram if you want a look: Jonpachi on there too.

[Steven]

At least the PS5 and Switch versions of IV were spared from the stuttering. I didn't have a PS5 when I got IV about a year ago and the PC version didn't exist yet, so I just got the PS4 and Switch versions and barely played them until now, which I kind of regret because I really like Raiden IV. I just learned that there is also an Xbox version of the game that was not released in Japan, and I wonder how that turned out.

Now I am kind of wondering about how Raiden III will compare across all platforms, especially after that weirdness with PS5 IV seeming to have twice the lag of the PS4 version. I really want to play this game and I'm getting tired of waiting for the PC version, so I may just go to Mikado and buy one of the console versions.

[nZero]

Hard to really get into IV again when it plays worse than my ancient 360 port (which requires a similarly ancient 360).

For what it's worth, Raiden IV for Xbox 360 is backwards compatible and will run happily on all varieties of Xbox One and Xbox Series S/X. It also becomes region free that way, so JP and NA/EU discs or any of the download-only versions will both work on any later Xbox.

[BIL]

Oh word Cheers bud, I'd forgotten about BC! Was always a stickler for OG platforms, but that generation is friggin haunted.

[Udderdude]

Haunted by spicy PowerPC based CPUs heating up the joint.

[BIL]

Someone should sell a cooler rig for 360s and PS3s based on the spaceship CPU's one in Sunshine (2007) - complete with total absence of remote controls, so you have to reach into the deadly coolant and manually submerge the console every time you boot up for some Raiden Fighters Aces and would prefer it not burst into flames 3; It's the only way to get that real mid-to-late 2000s RROD/YLOD feel!

Also if you sneeze on the rig it carves up your disc, ofc