Toaplan games coming to PC (Steam, GOG)

[Steven]

I will be most displeased if they fuck up the audio in Vimana, Dogyuun!!, V-V, and Tatsujin Ou.

They definitely didn't use any files from the OSTs because Against The Attack still has all of the extremely obvious noise in it and the file sizes are still in the 2~3 megabyte range and they'd have to do some serious compression to get that file size, and that will greatly decrease audio quality since there is no way any lossless audio format that I know of can compress that well. Just Against The Attack itself is 13.7MB on the City Connection OST as a .flac file, and it doesn't have the noise that it does in the game here.

[Sumez]

I respect that emulating Toaplan audio might not be super simple, but some of the claims here are really odd to me. Why would you try to emulate the sound of a specific cabinet speaker? I doubt the game's sounds were designed to compensate for tinny arcade speakers, so it's better if you just don't consider that and let the user decide which speakers they use. Also, they talk about PSG like it's analog audio. It's not - how PSG works is completely precisely defined by its hardware, and translating it to software should be relatively basic. Something like a high pitch sounds to me like a basic programming error that's easy to make if you don't have much of an ear for audio subtleties (I did the same thing in my NES emulator and had an audiophile friend help me out). I think they are probably talking about the amp circuit on the PCB though, and not the PSG itself? Just really oddly worded.

[Steven]

Toaplan games are specifically meant to be played on table cabinets, not upright cabinets, so I hope they are attempting to replicate that somehow and that it can be disabled if players want to disable it. The games' audio was specifically adjusted, but as far as I know they did it not to make them sound better on the table cabinets but to make them stand out from all of the other games that might be in the game center.

I'm starting to wonder if they are having difficulty with the protection stuff on the PCBs or ROMs or whatever that, from what I understand, prevented games like Same! Same! Same! from having audio in MAME until very recently. Slap Fight still doesn't sound right on MAME; the PCB has a crunchy sound that you can only get on the PCB. I thought mine was broken when I first got it, but that's how the game actually sounds. Apparently the audio in Performan also only sounds correct on the PCB.

[spmbx]

The way these releases turned out i can't say i care whether bitwave finishes releasing the next waves of these or not.
In fact i would prefer them to just stop releasing this shit.

[FunktionJCB]

As fellow forum user Tokyo-J already posted elsewhere (viewtopic.php?t=72692), the next batch of titles is coming February 1st, and it consists of Tiger Heli, Batsugun, Fixeight, and Vimana.

Here are the Steam pages:

Tiger Heli:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2022970/Tiger_Heli/

Batsugun:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2023000/Batsugun/

Fixeight:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2023180/Fixeight/

Vimana:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2023170/Vimana/

[reckon luck]

If they're not completely broken then I'll at least get Fixeight and Vimana.

[Steven]

I mentioned this in the other thread, but that new (???) Tiger-Heli art is interesting. Not going to post it here because I am typing on my Vita and don't feel like getting out of bed to turn on my computer, but if anyone finds a bigger version of it, let me know.

[SeafoamGaming]

Good lord Tiger Heli already when they never fixed Slap Fight’s PSG Sound Effects? I’m kinda dreading how it’ll turn out… guess I’ll know soon

[m.sniffles.esq]

As fellow forum user Tokyo-J already posted elsewhere (viewtopic.php?t=72692), the next batch of titles is coming February 1st, and it consists of Tiger Heli, Batsugun, Fixeight, and Vimana.


Sorry, this is partially my fault. I attempted to make it so there wasn't eight different threads muddling an already confusing situation, but forgot that Toplan Collection and Toplan Garage were two different things and topped the wrong thread. I apologize.

[FunktionJCB]

Sorry, this is partially my fault. I attempted to make it so there wasn't eight different threads muddling an already confusing situation, but forgot that Toplan Collection and Toplan Garage were two different things and topped the wrong thread. I apologize.

Oh, that's fine.

I just posted about the new batch on this thread, which already covered the first 2 volumes, for the members following this thread that might miss the new thread on the front page.

[FunktionJCB]

I mentioned this in the other thread, but that new (???) Tiger-Heli art is interesting. Not going to post it here because I am typing on my Vita and don't feel like getting out of bed to turn on my computer, but if anyone finds a bigger version of it, let me know.

Bitwave posted a bigger version of that artwork on twitter (there's posts about each of the upcoming re-releases):
https://twitter.com/bitwavegames/status ... 6086609121

Here's the full-sized version (hidden, due to size):

Spoiler

[Steven]

I mentioned this in the other thread, but that new (???) Tiger-Heli art is interesting. Not going to post it here because I am typing on my Vita and don't feel like getting out of bed to turn on my computer, but if anyone finds a bigger version of it, let me know.

Bitwave posted a bigger version of that artwork on twitter (there's posts about each of the upcoming re-releases):
https://twitter.com/bitwavegames/status ... 6086609121

Here's the full-sized version (hidden, due to size):

Spoiler

Hell yeah~

Thanks. I might try to find out who drew this, but I can already tell that it almost certainly wasn't someone from Toaplan.

Now that I think about it, isn't this the first time Batsugun Special's arcade version has been officially released? I don't know if it's in the Exa version, so maybe not.

[maximo310]

It is in the EXA release.

[FunktionJCB]

Now that I think about it, isn't this the first time Batsugun Special's arcade version has been officially released? I don't know if it's in the Exa version, so maybe not.

It's also on the BATSUGUN Saturn Tribute Boosted release by CITY CONNECTION (although in that case it's a port of the Saturn port).

[Some-Mist]

I really like these releases tbh. obviously arcade accurate would be ideal, but if I'm being lazy... being able to boot up out zone, twin cobra, fire shark, and flying shark without having to swap out PCBs is super convenient. I have the m2 switch releases, but I don't like playing shmups on consoles any more since I don't have an ideal setup.

looking forward to fixeight

[FunktionJCB]

The next batch of titles is out now on Steam:

Tiger Heli:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2022970/Tiger_Heli/

Batsugun:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2023000/Batsugun/

Vimana:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2023170/Vimana/

Fixeight:
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2023180/Fixeight/


And here's the discounted pack with all 4 games:
https://store.steampowered.com/bundle/3 ... tem_Ups_3/

[Steven]

Not buying them this time, and I didn't beta test. I'll let someone else figure out how broken they are.

Oh god, I just realized that it's at the point where I'm not even buying the games of my favourite game developer of all time, games that were made by people I know in real life, respect, and would dare to even call my friends, because I don't want to see how fucking broken they are and now I'm quite literally sad.

[The Coop]

The previous eight games got an update today. New patch with fixes?

[AGermanArtist]

@steven

[Some-Mist]

Fixeight is such a damn weird game.

i remember it being weird and its weirdness turning me away from the game to the point where I haven’t really played it in the past 10 years, and I somehow thought after all this time I might be more charmed by it

But nope, not really.

The color scheme and level design just makes me feel weird. The enemy design is pretty dang cool tho.

Gonna try to keep sinking runs into it to see if I can warm up to it

[SeafoamGaming]

I got pre launch review codes to all of these and have been working on the reviews for this volume accordingly. I posted impressions last time, so I'll note some here this time per game, though for two of them i'm far from an expert as this is my first time playing the games. (since they are also titles never before ported)

Tiger Heli: This was the one I went "god fuck no" when confirmed as part of the wave since it's a PSG game like Slap Fight and that game had the most audible audio butchering of them all. Sure enough, when I got the code and played it the music was off and the sound effects were equally off-key in a similar manner to that of Slap Fight's port, so I pretty much wrote the review quickly and prepped it to go out when the embargo lifted.

...Then earlier this week they dumped a patch that fixed a bunch of the sound effect issues and made the music sound more normal, then yesterday they dropped another patch that made the music sound even better. I can't say it's 100% PCB accurate for sure since I never played a real machine of this like I did Flying Shark, but it's so much better I can't even describe the night and day leap: I went from ripping it apart to being a lot nicer on the port since it pretty much feels like I'd expect it to and there didn't seem to be any noticeable gameplay bugs here either. If you enjoyed this on Evercade then I think it's a fine enough port, though the M2 version still sounds a tad better with the instrumentation. But hey, the sound effects no longer make me want to go deaf, so whee.

Batsugun: I reviewed this on Saturn Tribute and immediately threw the music into my car playlist for my regular driving rotation. The music is pretty much burned into my ears as a result, and I sadly did notice the sounds and music were off similar to the other games pre launch. It got a similar patch to Tiger Heli this week, and the sound effects are much better. The music seems fine except some instrument channel really sounds way too loud compared to the others, and I notice this the most on Stage 3's theme, where it sounds like the percussion track was pitched higher than the others. Still, I also noticed Stage 2 Boss theme was a bit off and eargrating pre patch, and it sounds better now, so I at least noticed this one getting good sound patches too. Considering the complexity of this game, I'm stunned how well it came out, ngl, and the playability feels like butter. I still prefer S-tribute though since it also has the superior arranged OSTs available to pick from along with Special/Normal hitbox options.

Vimana: One of two I never played before, and the stage 1 theme is super epic. Game itself feels kinda boring though and the stages seem very dull. Still working at this one for the review but audio wise nothing but the shot sound felt off to me, and then a patch dropped this week that made it sound a lot better. I fired up a video of a PCB run to compare it to my game and the sound seems almost damn near identical to my ears, definitely better than it was when I got the code in. I think this one may be the most accurate of them all from a hunch

Fixeight: The other I never played before. Whooo boy, this one is the buggiest of them all ATM. When I got the review code it didnt even have working steam input, so I had to wait for a patch this week to even play it. (it would only accept keyboard input otherwise so on steam deck, yeah, that ain't happening) I like the game itself quite a bit but something about the audio sounded off to me, and not toaplan like at all, but then again so did Dogyuun so I just assumed it was me being unfamiliar.

Oopsie, I ended up noticing my local scores erased themselves, which wasn't fun. So I go to change region. Huh, Japan isn't there, that's strange. Maybe it's a legal issue with Taito. Oh nope i just had to hit left on the region select since the region select was buggy and didn't seem to cycle properly. Still having scores erase themselves which is unfun but at least leaderboards work.

Then I compare my audio with a PCB (much much harder to find vids of one on YT btw, I guess this game was buried right after it launched) and holy shit, yeah a bunch of the drum sounding parts of the first stage theme are completely missing/muted in the Bitwave port. It's really, really weird comparing the OST back to back, and the sounds are mostly there for pickups and such, but the distinct explosion that I heard from destroying the first enemies on the PCB are much quieter on bitwave. Not good, and I definitely am not fond on how this turned out even though again, playability is mostly good.

So yeah, I'm pleased it's better than the last volume with how it launched, and I am glad I don't have to rip into Tiger Heli or Batsugun for what I expected to be bad sounding ports, but Fixeight is in the most need of a fix. Vimana is fine sounding to me, except the game itself feels kinda lame.

[Steven]

So things are still broken. Great. I might buy these just so I can attempt to get them fixed, or at least I would if I actually knew anything about FixEight. That game is pretty much a mystery to me, although I have played it a few times at Taito Hey on their PCB. It's gotten slightly cheaper recently, so I may get the PCB myself soon. It used to be more expensive than Out Zone, but it's cheaper now. Tiger-Heli is still the only Toaplan STG that I have never played on PCB, and one of only a handful of Toaplan games in general that I have never played on PCB. I passed on buying a nice Tiger-Heli PCB recently and I regret it.

Anyway, yes, FixEight is super weird. Pastel colors + orchestral music in a Toaplan game is very odd and I don't know why they decided to do that. Kaneko Nanpei was one of the art dudes on this game and he went on to be a famous illustrator for magazines in Japan after Toaplan died, and Joker Jun says that Kaneko is one of the four greatest artists to ever work at Toaplan. The game itself is fine, but it's also eternally doomed to be compared to Out Zone.

Speaking of people who made the games, who is listed in the credits for FixEight? I know that there are definitely some people missing from the previous games. I don't remember who all is missing, but I'm pretty sure that artist Shimizu Yumiko is missing from the credits on Tatsujin and Kyuukyoku Tiger and I want to say programmer Wada Etsuhiro is possibly missing from Out Zone, so I'm pretty curious to see who all is listed here.

I kind of also wish they translated the Japanese subtitle for FixEight just because it's cool, but it's not officially part of the game's overseas title, but that's how it is.

Vimana: One of two I never played before, and the stage 1 theme is super epic. Game itself feels kinda boring though and the stages seem very dull.

Space High is one of Tomizawa's greatest creations. The arrange version, now deleted from Youtube, is even better. You'll have to buy the OST to get that one now, but it's worth it just for that alone. Also, Vimana isn't boring. It's HYPER VIOLENCE SHOOTING!!!!!!!!!!!!



"The planet was utterly destroyed
by the final war.
The war was so terrible,
The surviving inhabitants chose to erase
the horrible memory of their planet's
devastation from their minds."

Holy fuck what an arcade flyer!

Anyway Vimana has an incredible soundtrack and some of the coolest and most creative bosses in any Toaplan game. Too bad you can't turn down the volume of the shot sound effect; the game has terrible audio balance and it obscures that glorious Tomizawa-bushi OST quite badly. Stage 6, Rekka no Gotoku, and the ending theme, Back to the Earth, are the other standout music tracks in a soundtrack full of nothing but standout music tracks.

[DietSoap]

The previous eight games got an update today. New patch with fixes?

Interesting. Are there patch notes?

[The Coop]

The previous eight games got an update today. New patch with fixes?

Interesting. Are there patch notes?

Sadly, no. They just updated and that was that.

[jehu]

Vimana instantly crashes on Mac if I try to rewind.

Other than that, I'm glad to have these - though they have the same little issues as all the other Bitwave ports.

[MJR]

I bought the latest patch too and I've been enjoying them, especially Tiger Heli which I personally consider to be one of the best designed vertical shmups ever made. The thing is though, you really need to have experience from PCB to notice what's off. I own Truxton and Hellfire PCB's, and I've been only slightly annoyed with the small flaws of the sound emulation, as it stands now.
Only thing that really did upset me was that version confusion with Out Zone, but since they added the common version, I've been playing it frequently; practically abandoned Mame. Still, I'm planning to get that PCB..

One thing confuses me though with Tiger Heli, the powerup tiles have different graphics compared to M2 version. In M2 version on switch, they appear as arrows, indicating the direction the small helis will shoot. In Bitwave version, there are no arrows, but there are tiles, which give you small helis who always shoot at your side. Looks like they are having another version confusion here if they think their version is the only one (no, I couldn't switch versions from the menu).

Other quite important thing in the options is to put original speed when available, otherwise games are too hard. It baffles me why the original speed is not a default option? After all it plays just as smooth when it's on.

Aside from the asisine sound emulation issues at launch and annoying confision with the Out Zone versions, I am more or less satisfied with the Bitwave releases. There are still issues, but they are minor ones. It's not like in the eighties where you had absolutely abysmal home "conversions" of the arcade games that missed levels and features or were just generally shot to hell.

For genuinely modern awful emulation experience, I would use Raiden Legacy on Steam as an example what is "bad". I should have asked refund for that one.. in fact, I just did

[MJR]

I bought the latest set of releases too, and I've been enjoying them, especially Tiger Heli which I personally consider to be one of the best designed vertical shmups ever made. The thing is though, you really need to have experience from PCB to notice what's off. I own Truxton and Hellfire PCB's, and I've been only slightly annoyed with the small flaws of the sound emulation, as it stands now.
Only thing that really did upset me was that version confusion with Out Zone, but since they added the common version, I've been playing it frequently; practically abandoned Mame. Still, I'm planning to get that PCB..

One thing confuses me though with Tiger Heli, the powerup tiles have different graphics compared to M2 version. In M2 version on switch, they appear as arrows, indicating the direction the small helis will shoot. In Bitwave version, there are no arrows, but there are tiles, which give you small helis who always shoot at your side. Looks like they are having another version confusion here if they think their version is the only one (no, I couldn't switch versions from the menu).

Other quite important thing in the options is to put original speed when available, otherwise games are too hard. It baffles me why the original speed is not a default option? After all it plays just as smooth when it's on.

Aside from the asisine sound emulation issues at launch and annoying confision with the Out Zone versions, I am more or less satisfied with the Bitwave releases. There are still issues, but they are minor ones. It's not like in the eighties where you had absolutely abysmal home "conversions" of the arcade games that missed levels and features or were just generally shot to hell.

For genuinely modern awful emulation experience, I would use Raiden Legacy on Steam as an example what is "bad". I should have asked refund for that one.. in fact, I just did

[MJR]

I bought the latest set of releases too, and I've been enjoying them, especially Tiger Heli which I personally consider to be one of the best designed vertical shmups ever made. The thing is though, you really need to have experience from PCB to notice what's off. I own Truxton and Hellfire PCB's, and I've been only slightly annoyed with the small flaws of the sound emulation, as it stands now.
Only thing that really did upset me was that version confusion with Out Zone, but since they added the common version, I've been playing it frequently; practically abandoned Mame. Still, I'm planning to get that PCB..

And as for autofire options.. I am fine with two buttons with autofire off/on, and on set to 30fps, because I use Hori arcade stick where I can add 20fps autofire rate to the second fire button, if I need two sets of different autofires.

One thing confuses me though with Tiger Heli, the powerup tiles have different graphics compared to M2 version. In M2 version on switch, they appear as arrows, indicating the direction the small helis will shoot. In Bitwave version, there are no arrows, but only single set of tiles, which give you small helis who always shoot at your side. Looks like they are having another version confusion here if they think their version is the only one (no, I couldn't switch versions from the menu).

Other quite important thing in the options is to put original speed when available, otherwise games are too hard. It baffles me why the original speed is not a default option? After all it plays just as smooth when it's on.

Aside from the asisine sound emulation issues at launch and annoying confusion with the Out Zone versions, I am more or less satisfied with the Bitwave releases. There are still issues, but they are minor ones. It's not like in the eighties where you had absolutely abysmal home "conversions" of the arcade games that missed levels and features or were just generally shot to hell.

For genuinely awful modern emulation experience, I would use Raiden Legacy on Steam as an example what is "bad". I should have asked refund for that one.. in fact, I just did

[Klatrymadon]

Other quite important thing in the options is to put original speed when available, otherwise games are too hard. It baffles me why the original speed is not a default option? After all it plays just as smooth when it's on.

You might not notice this while playing, since bullets don't seem badly affected by it, but when using the original speeds you can see the backgrounds and larger enemies stuttering slightly as they move down the screen. I assume 60hz was chosen as the default just to iron this out for the majority of players. It probably makes the game touch harder, though, so I'm sticking with the original refresh rates.

[Steven]

One thing confuses me though with Tiger Heli, the powerup tiles have different graphics compared to M2 version. In M2 version on switch, they appear as arrows, indicating the direction the small helis will shoot. In Bitwave version, there are no arrows, but only single set of tiles, which give you small helis who always shoot at your side. Looks like they are having another version confusion here if they think their version is the only one (no, I couldn't switch versions from the menu).

M2 changed the graphics; BitWave used the original graphics that are on the PCB. M2 also changed the powerups in Get Star in the same way, as it uses crosses on the powerups on PCB just like Tiger-Heli. This is likely a colorblindness thing because they said someone at M2 who is working on ShotTriggers is colorblind, which is also why Teki-Paki has a bunch of colorblind options.