Ray'z Arcade Chronology [Taito x M2] - PS4/Switch [2023]

[Sengoku Strider]

DG and Rayforce were always highly-regarded amongst Japanese STG fans. I could swear I remember someone else from the US mentioning this theory forever ago, and yeah... it's not the US STG fanbase of Bumfuck Burgerland, or their equally ardent pals across the pond in Crumpetfuck Teabagfordshire, or even the continental powers of Wienerschnitzelburg, Baguette Handler Town or Cannoli Lover's Island behind any of these games' statures. We're good for regrettably sexual Ikaruga box quotes, that's about it. Conversely, many of the most widely Western-available STGs are roundly detested around here and other hubs. Someone whose familiarity goes beyond a small stack of GameSTs and doujin superplays and witnessing a couple decades' worth of Euroshmup pogroms could probably confirm on both of these counts.

With regard to stature I was thinking specifically of the top 25s over the years on this forum, having gone through the archives a while back. Those two games have consistently placed in them which, when you think about all the STGs that have ever been released, is a lot of very good and very widely known games to be placed ahead of. I wouldn't second guess the judgement of people picking them, only make the point that market availability clearly has an influence when you look at trends of other games appearing or rising on the list over the years. I just went through the archive again, to refresh my memory. I believe the first three polls are lost to time, but from 2006 forward here's what I found, with Esp.Ra.De added as a control factor:

Code: Select all

       
     Layer Gaiden  ESP.Ra.De
4th   21    -      25
5th   13    -      -
6th   17    -      16
7th   24    -      18
8th   -     -      -
9th   -     23     -
10th  -     -      -
11th  16    -      -
12th  8     20     -
13th  8     20     -
14th  8     23     -
15th  8     -      -
16th  13    -      -
17th  15    23     14
18th  20    10     16
19th  23    9      14

Looking at this, while Layer Section/Rayforce has been a mainstay, Darius Gaiden was a more sporadic entrant, making 5 appearances in 13 years. But the 17th poll occurred in the year that ESP.Ra.De & Darius Gaiden both received re-releases, and we see Gaiden place higher than ever before, while ESP.Ra.De re-emerges after a 13 year absence.

I'm not sure what was behind Gaiden's emergence midway through. I'm not into emulation so I'm basing this off a bit of Googling: it seems like the Taito F3 was added to MAME later than that, but it does seem to generally correspond to improvements in Saturn emulation, though before the expansion bus hack.

On the Japanese point, I looked through the final Saturn Magazine reader's poll. Here's how the ten highest STGs placed at the time:

(1) 14. Thunder Force V
(2) 31. Sōkyūgurentai
(3) 33. Sōkyūgurentai Otokuyō
(4) 37. Radiant Silvergun
(5) 46. Game Tengoku
(6) 56. Layer Section
(7) 69. Sega Ages: Fantasy Zone
(8) 83. Dodonpachi
(9) 89. Battle Garegga
(10) 94. Darius Gaiden

So they're both at least in the running there on this platform (Salamander Deluxe Pack Plus in 99th place was the next STG down if you wanted to skip the other Sōkyūgurentai). I'd love to add a more contemporary overall Japanese poll, but I'm not aware of one that might be considered representative. There are things like ranking.net, whose STG list has Layer Section at 58 all-time, Darius Gaiden at 62. But given that the highest rated Darius game on that list is Darius Force at #40, I'm not sure how seriously to take it. Shout outs to the underdog Sky Kid for placing 12th though.

The other stuff I find through Google are just personal lists on blogs & youtube etc. If anyone knows something better I'd love to see it.

So in looking for an answer to my own question, did their ready availability on the Saturn in the West affect the profiles of Layer Section & Darius Gaiden? Yeah, it would seem so, but I also don't think it can be said to be the determining factor for their popularity.

I don't think anyone who likes RF does so because its weapons and scoring systems broadly resembles Xevious's, though. Then again, my opinion of RF's Gunlock is that it's Xevious Ground Bombing Except Not Lame.

On this particular point I would have to disagree. Not that Xevious isn't lame, that's pretty much factual (argh that audio). It's completely lost on us in the West, but Xevious was a huge deal in Japan. The conditions were just never there for it here, due to how late it arrived to the NES & Atari 7800. It certainly blew minds in Japanese arcades at the time, but where it really made an impact was on the Famicom. It and the inferior SG-1000 were the whole show when it came to the Japanese home console market in 1984. (The main Japanese home computers of the day, the PC-8800 & then still-new MSX standard, couldn't yet hang with the Famicom in terms of smoothly displaying games). When Lode Runner hit the Famicom in the summer of '84, it became a phenomenon and the system really started to pull away, becoming the dominant Japanese gaming platform. Here's the entire list of STGs available for the Famicom when the Xevious port hit in November of that year:

Galaga
Xevious

That's it. That's the whole list. So in a country that had been Space Invaders obsessed, and when arcades were still filthy, scary Yakuza-connected places moms wouldn't let their kids into, you can see how in that context Xevious really stood head & shoulders above everything else available. And of course its influence was clear in several games over the years following. So there's no question that Xevious was in the back (or maybe front) of the minds of Layer Section's devs when they were making it, and it had to have been a huge part of the appeal to a section of the player base as well. If you look at that ranking.net list, Xevious is #2 all time (after Gradius). Sure, grains of salt & all, but it is a marker of its enduring cultural memory.

[BIL]

DG and Rayforce were always highly-regarded amongst Japanese STG fans. I could swear I remember someone else from the US mentioning this theory forever ago, and yeah... it's not the US STG fanbase of Bumfuck Burgerland, or their equally ardent pals across the pond in Crumpetfuck Teabagfordshire, or even the continental powers of Wienerschnitzelburg, Baguette Handler Town or Cannoli Lover's Island behind any of these games' statures. We're good for regrettably sexual Ikaruga box quotes, that's about it. Conversely, many of the most widely Western-available STGs are roundly detested around here and other hubs. Someone whose familiarity goes beyond a small stack of GameSTs and doujin superplays and witnessing a couple decades' worth of Euroshmup pogroms could probably confirm on both of these counts.

I wouldn't second guess the judgement of people picking them, only make the point that market availability clearly has an influence when you look at trends of other games appearing or rising on the list over the years.

Sure, that's unavoidable. If it's not available, it won't make a list, and whatever is will fill the void.

In terms of insight quality, whether that's fine wine or brackish water filling the bottle is effectively unknowable at this distance, without getting into a quasi-conspiratorial level of thinking. Did Rayforce's superior availability contaminate the Top 25 forevermore? I can confirm at least two games - Dangun Feveron and Ketsui - promptly outranked it on my own list, once I could actually play them via their respective PS4 and 360 ports. I'm pretty sure I put Kamui and Souky over it too, and at one point, my list included its sequel Raystorm, since dropped.

~Digression Corner~

I'm 90% sure if Raystorm had used flat topdown, it'd actually supplant Rayforce on my list. Its pace is notably upped, trading RF's long, intricate chainpieces for more furied stages that still pack formidable performance ceilings, for those who seek them. The new air-to-air lockon further ups the violent spontaneity, creating a seamless battlefield and widening the player's offensive palate to include cutthroat fadeaway kills on formations and stubborn heavies alike - lock 'em up and move on, as they die in a hail of lasers while futilely gunning for the space you once occupied. The RG02's slashing, scorching "walk the dog" attack is especially splendid kinetic fun, and a first-class scoring apparatus, wickedly apropos the upped pace.

Atmospherically, it makes genuinely panoramic, sweeping use of its POVs, with a compelling sense of altitude and speed - Area 4's fleet battle is one of the genre's most authentically menacing takes on the classic LOGH armada - and its Smooth Space Jazz is refined by more of RF's surreal lategame menace, with an all-time great ZTT torch song in SLAUGHTER HOUR. ala G-Darius, far from aging poorly, there's an unmistakable 60fps cinematic fire behind those gritty polys.

But with POV and framing being utterly critical in my book, that's no small detail - it's adjustable to, but RS never matches the absolute clarity of its predecessor. And so into the HMs it goes, behind three estimable DFA_STG (that's Death From Above Shooting Game™) competitors all reaping the benefits of classically airtight topdown.

~Fin~

I could happily write you an essay apiece on why each of these games ranked, or in RS's case used to rank, because that's my thing. Now, our learned friend xXxBIGFUCKINDICK6999xXx may not have thought things out quite this far, perhaps lacking the requisite Sperg Force™, or simply having better things to do with his life (the two tend to go hand-in-hand!). BFD might also have a much broader palate than mine, due to his preferring MAME over the relatively paltry selection of quality official home releases, and he could easily be a more seasoned STG player than my lazy ass. In that sense, his "I LIEK XEVIOUS ROFL" Rayforce pick might hold more water than mine or anyone else's.

Or, maybe he really does just like Xevious, but is cruelly stricken by one of them Logo Phobias - seeing not a comfortingly familiar red namco, but a body-ripping vision of Hell to make the Reaper shit his briefs - which would explain his ignoring of their later Death From Above Shooting Games (that is DFA_STGs) featuring Dragons and Fighter/Attacker craft in favour of cool blue TAITO's effort. (Arcade Archives: Dragon Saber out tomorrow, incidentally! )

It's all a bit of a mess!

This is why I specifically avoid Top 25s, polls and other "Which [X] Do U Liek" popularity contests, when evaluating the standings of games, films, albums, etc. Consensus is infamously unreliable, and sometimes people like even good things for bad reasons. For a worthwhile answer to this sort of query, I think you would be better off consulting the historical record. What do people say about this game, in enthusiast circles? Does it have much Strategy/HS forum content, or was it just a pretty box with nothing inside? As mentioned, in entirely too much time here, I can recall only one "Did Acclaim buy RF a charter seat on the Top 25?" query. I would consider perhaps opening a thread. Call it "Death From Acclaim? The Case For And Against Rayforce As DFA_STG Poster Boy" or something

Ship speed OTOH - definitely a perennial RF criticism around these parts. Personally, I think it depends on the wider game balance - Metal Black, Trigon and Ikari's avatars are widely considered slow, too, but as with Rayforce, after adjusting to the surrounding games I can say hand-on-heart I never felt encumbered. Something of a truism - "If you know how to work around the problem, it's less of a problem" - but at the same time, Raiden III has always made me feel like I'm stuck in first gear compared its better-loved predecessors and followups, so it's not like I'm totally inured here.

[Steven]

I credit fed my way through Kamui twice just now and it was fucking awesome. As for how it compares to Layer Section, I think it's still too early to decide, but I'm tempted to say Kamui is a more fun game. I just wish that I could remap the keyboard controls, as I find using the arrow keys awkward and would rather use WASD instead. Oh well. That's why I have a few USB Saturn controllers.

Anyway, if you want R-Gear, you have 9 hours and 49 minutes as of this post to preorder it, so don't wait.

[BIL]

Kamui lands squarely on the elusive crosspoint between console generosity and arcade intensity - I'd also put Tecno Soft's Elemental Master in this bracket. While they both feature multiple hitpoints per life, greatly smoothing out the learning curve, I actually think both would've worked fine as 1HKOs (and like any quality STG, they can absolutely be played as such). The real trick is their gifting the player with feelgood firepower and agility, then ensuring a consistent, compelling resistance level - in Kamui, by deploying far more heavy metal than would be feasible minus the GodLazor, in EM, by maintaining a relentless terrain-augmented pincer attack that'd soon feel burdensome with traditional one-way shooting, but which guarantees its two-way fire nonstop truckloads of red meat. When it's done this well, particularly with such fiery panache, it's some of the most euphoric Hard 2D Action to be found anywhere - and when they manage to work in a compelling scoring system on top of all this, ala Kamui, it's guaranteed a spot on my Desert Island list of ten.

Perfect examples of how, while arcade-style gaming is a towering storehouse of harrowing skin-o-your-teeth trials, it's every bit as good at delivering rollicking feelgood action in the same zero-filler format. All in the tuning!

[ColonelFatso]

I can't believe I still haven't tried out Kamui. It's been on Steam for so long now and every time I think about buying it I seem to have something else on the go instead...

Recent days are no exception. I've been working on cracking the 7M barrier in Rayforce for the past several weeks and the news of the collection buoyed my spirits immeasurably. Having an M2-grade arcade-accurate port I can use my good USB stick with will be a huge asset but truthfully, as a non-PSX owner for most of my life, I'm most intrigued by the sequel games. They did not emulate well at all in MAME so I feel like the disappointment of my very brief forays into Raystorm/Raycrisis is probably unfounded and I'm hoping to have a blast with them.

[BIL]

7m sounds fuckin intense, good going! I never ventured beyond 4.5m myself, but I always planned to come back, so this set is the easiest Day 1 pickup I can recall. The distance between a risk-averse 1ALL and a really ambitious scoring run is particularly awe-inspiring in this game, the pressure is wicked. (I wonder if Tamayo was going for a contrast there, with the fairly chill in-game tunes that only really ramp up during boss duels... gives RF a certain eccentric character, skimming the jaws of death to eminently whistle-able tunes )

[Rastan78]

(I wonder if Tamayo was going for a contrast there, with the fairly chill in-game tunes that only really ramp up during boss duels... gives RF a certain eccentric character, skimming the jaws of death to eminently whistle-able tunes )

The shmuplations interview on Rayforce is a really good read. I was surprised to learn that her tracks were dropped in at the midnight hour sight unseen. The staff was worried they would actually have to go with using placeholder demos in the final game until a bike messenger of all things delivered the now legendary OST.

This kind of surprised me since like BIL said there's an odd sort of synergy between the gameplay and the music. I had always naively assumed this meant there was some especially tight coordination there.

[Sengoku Strider]

The 3D Force games just make me want to go play Soukyugurentai instead. Souky does nabs this formula and does it so, so much better that I find it impossible to go back.

I also think the vaguely similar Soukyuugurentai is a better game than Layer Section in almost every way, especially the soundtrack. Soukyuugurentai's first stage is admittedly pretty boring, though.[/size]

Another question I've had for a while is "Why Layer Section over Sōkyūgurentai?" Because they are similar, and I like the former but absolutely love the latter. I'm sure that played a part in me thinking about Top 25s etc. You can see in that Saturn Mag poll info I posted above that even SoQ's special edition placed above almost every STG on the platform at the time.

Thinking through this discussion has clarified for me that the two games are not quite the same thing; SoQ is an incredibly well thought out (it seems to me, anyway) vertizontal STG which was built around the idea of controlling horizontal space. Raizing were surely thinking about the home market when they went with the yoko setup. Faced with the challenge of creating a vertical game which would be compromised on a 4:3 display as these things always are, they came up with the web system allowing them to make effective use of the wider horizontal space rather than abruptly shoving vertical waves in the player's face. Zako waves tend to enter from the side, and sprites scaled along Z-axis depth are used to great effect to signal incoming enemies to the player. Enemies entering from the top of the screen tend to be somewhat stationary.

Layer Section, as discussed, is much more a game about routing. It demands remaining mindful of all the visual information entering the vertical space, knowing the displacement of your reticle means the downward scrolling enemies are a piano roll indicating the end of the bar you need to hit that note by. SoQ certainly features an element of that if you're gunning for 00% remaining enemy fighting capacity, but you're granted a much greater range of screen control allowing a bit more room to recover. Which I presume relates to Layer Section's appeal to the hardcore player; its more exacting scoring creates an almost racing-line like effect, rewarding continuous refinement and shaving off fractions of seconds in routing.

I can see what you mean about how it's kind of surprising people don't bring that up. It's also surprising they don't talk about the brutal rank system. RF is one of those games where you will see top players insert credit press start and ram right into the first available enemy to suicide. I think what happens there is that sometimes it's one popular game that people will bitch about that sucks all the air out of the room. If you want to complain about overly rigid routing you can talk about ikaruga. Want to complain about draconian rank systems? Garegga is the classic whipping boy.

This kinda makes sense. For what it's worth I'm not suggesting people should complain, the genre is wide enough to allow a given game its own points of emphasis.

Not that it was probably a huge commercial success. I'd imagine any Japanese arcade game released in 94 that wasn't called SF2, KOF or Virtua Fighter was essentially niche from the start.

The ubiquitous Arcadia reference on the game's Wikipedia page says it was the 3rd most popular game the month of its release. The Japanese Wikipedia entry gives us this anecdote:

メインショットが一種類のみでボンバーなどの緊急回避動作がないなど、時代に逆行したデザインの作品ながら、全国のゲームセンターにおいてロングランヒットを記録した。しかし、当時のゲームセンターは対戦格闘ゲームが中心に設置されており、基板自体の出回りは今一つだった。

Though the game's design went against the times, with only one type of main shot and no emergency evasion moves such as bombs etc., it logged a long run as a hit at game centres nationwide. At the time however, arcades were centred around fighting games, and so circulation of the board itself was lacking.

[Steven]

Another question I've had for a while is "Why Layer Section over Sōkyūgurentai?"

I have also been wondering about this. I don't think I've played Layer Section at all after I got Soukyuugurentai in December aside from testing that City Connection Switch demo. Now I'm also wondering about why Thunder Force V over Soukyuugurentai, but yeah. Soukyuugurentai is one of the best and cheapest shooters on Saturn, and every Saturn owner needs it.

Well, whatever. I'm going to play the shit out of this M2 collection and figure it out myself. Maybe I'll put away my Dreamcast and set up the Saturn and play Layer Section tonight.

[Rastan78]

Funny how it will likely be Souky programmer Yuichi Toyama behind production of the Ray'z collection like he was with the Darius ones. The universe just came full circle lol.

[Steven]

Funny how it will likely be Souky programmer Yuichi Toyama behind production of the Ray'z collection like he was with the Darius ones. The universe just came full circle lol.

Toyama's in pretty much everything related to Taito shooting these days. He's even in the credits for the M2 Toaplan collections. Too bad they still had to remove almost every instance of Taito's name in those collections. Even the arcade flyers got changed. I hope they don't replace the Space Invaders dude in Slap Fight with that weird thing that they had in the Mega Drive Mini Slap Fight MD ROM. They really should have replaced it with Pipiru or something instead, but nope.

[qmish]

The 3D Force games just make me want to go play Soukyugurentai instead. Souky does nabs this formula and does it so, so much better that I find it impossible to go back.

Guess you're not fan of signature Taito/Zuntata "weirdness"
They surely have very specific atmosphere/aura/style to their games.

[qmish]

On the Japanese point, I looked through the final Saturn Magazine reader's poll. Here's how the ten highest STGs placed at the time:

(1) 14. Thunder Force V
(2) 31. Sōkyūgurentai
(3) 33. Sōkyūgurentai Otokuyō
(4) 37. Radiant Silvergun
(5) 46. Game Tengoku
(6) 56. Layer Section
(7) 69. Sega Ages: Fantasy Zone
(8) 83. Dodonpachi
(9) 89. Battle Garegga
(10) 94. Darius Gaiden

Please include one more to compensate the fact of Sokyu's update stealing another place, lol.

[Jonpachi]

Shit, I'm actually a defender of the Playstation Oubushustugeki version with its bonus character. He's a lot of fun to play as, and the reported "massive slowdown!!!" is only really a thing during scene transitions.

[Steven]

Shit, I'm actually a defender of the Playstation Oubushustugeki version with its bonus character. He's a lot of fun to play as, and the reported "massive slowdown!!!" is only really a thing during scene transitions.

I've been wondering about that PS1 version, but when I met Toyama a few months ago, he specifically told me to play the Saturn version because that's the best version. He made the thing, so I figure he knows better than pretty much anyone else.

Anyway, I played the game for the first time in a while a few hours ago and it turns out that when you stop practicing a game you start to become bad. I need to practice this game again... and I'll actually bother controlling rank because you are apparently supposed to do that in Soukyuugurentai or you'll suffer miserably. That's probably why I always found stage 5 so damn hard.

I did also play Layer Section a little bit, as well, and I think I like Layer Section more now than I did the last time I played it. Soundtrack still kind of sounds like elevator music or whatever, but it's pretty great elevator music, so I am not complaining. Not having the full screen height kind of sucks, though. I'll spend some more time with both games this weekend.

[qmish]

still kind of sounds like elevator music

Are you typical metalhead or something?
This "elevator music" argument always made me feel weird and question what the hell person is usually listen to.
Then i remember that most people dont really get into electronica or jazz or something, let alone something more niche like IDM or math-rock...

Though anyway i cant pinpoint what specific genre it actually is. Like, Rayforce 1 ost you can call as mix of New Age and Italo-Disco and what not.


btw, RayCrisis had some pretty damn cool alternative soundtrack in special mode of ps1 version with some sweet drum'n'BASS (yeah, dat bass!).

[Steven]

still kind of sounds like elevator music

Are you typical metalhead or something?
This "elevator music" argument always made me feel weird and question what the hell person is usually listen to.
Then i remember that most people dont really get into electronica or jazz or something, let alone something more niche like IDM or math-rock...

Though anyway i cant pinpoint what specific genre it actually is. Like, Rayforce 1 ost you can call as mix of New Age and Italo-Disco and what not.


btw, RayCrisis had some pretty damn cool alternative soundtrack in special mode of ps1 version with some sweet drum'n'BASS (yeah, dat bass!).

I basically don't listen to music at all, actually.

[qmish]

Ah, ok.

To be honest, it's very unusual to folks like me (who became music fanatic since teen years, basically spending the whole days with music player, listening to favorite albums for many times over and over and discussing songs and artists with passion) to even remember that there are people who, in general, don't really treat music as something notable. Because even "everyday normies" just usually kinda listen some stuff (e.g. pop music from charts or traditional folk).

It's just as mind blowing as knowing that some people "dont watch movies at all" or "dont consider book reading worthy".

I mean, i DON'T include "playing games" or "reading manga/comics" in this perhaps BECAUSE culturally in environment i grew up with, that stuff was niche/new while movie/book/music has perception of something ON DEFAULT.



Sorry for fierce offtop, just this "phenomena" felt interesting.

[SPM]

^ One guy at my work doesn't enjoy food! Any food! "Like fuel for my car, something necessary, nothing more"
Another doesn't like water, she drinks a lot of milk instead!
After that nothing will ever be mind-blowing to me anymore

DFA_STG (that's Death From Above Shooting Game™)

I demand a DFA_STGs ultimate list and I want it now!

Can't wait to get this collection!

[Jonpachi]

I mostly always turn off in-game music. SFX only pls.

[Sengoku Strider]

On the Japanese point, I looked through the final Saturn Magazine reader's poll. Here's how the ten highest STGs placed at the time:

(1) 14. Thunder Force V
(2) 31. Sōkyūgurentai
(3) 33. Sōkyūgurentai Otokuyō
(4) 37. Radiant Silvergun
(5) 46. Game Tengoku
(6) 56. Layer Section
(7) 69. Sega Ages: Fantasy Zone
(8) 83. Dodonpachi
(9) 89. Battle Garegga
(10) 94. Darius Gaiden

Please include one more to compensate the fact of Sokyu's update stealing another place, lol.

Way ahead of you! Was tucked into the parenthesis of the very next sentence:

So they're both at least in the running there on this platform (Salamander Deluxe Pack Plus in 99th place was the next STG down if you wanted to skip the other Sōkyūgurentai).

still kind of sounds like elevator music

Are you typical metalhead or something?
This "elevator music" argument always made me feel weird and question what the hell person is usually listen to.
Then i remember that most people dont really get into electronica or jazz or something, let alone something more niche like IDM or math-rock...

The thing is I'm a guy who wore out his Future Sound of London and Orb and Boards of Canada albums. I'm the dot in the centre of the target audience for techno-ambient weirdness. Aside from Darius Gaiden (which I find to be a more compositionally interesting work) making me moderately uncomfortable by constantly whispering "Lost of eyes, Lost of hands" into my ears, I've never really heard them do much to place themselves there. If I had to pin a label on Layer Section's soundtrack, I'd say it's kinda just progressive techno-pop with some light ambient trappings, like the occasional whoosh, synth pad interlude or a sampled radio voice telling me to take a left turn immediately before the game sends me right. None of which is a bad thing in and of itself, I've just never personally found it to be melodically strong enough to merit comment. Which is why it started to stick out when I kept reading reviews bring it up as a point of note. My favourite soundtrack of theirs is probably the more New Wave-inflected Darius Twin, janky out of tune SNES sound fonts & all. It really elevates the action well, and creates this unique 1980s retrofuturist-space-opera-as-performed-by-the-Psychedelic-Furs vibe.

But having said all that, what I really want now is a shooter set to Toxygene (first track in the Orb link above). That's just 5 minutes of bouncy musical bonkers, I don't know if Zuntata ever hit those heights.

[Rastan78]

The RayForce OST to me brings to mind upbeat poppy grooves with hummable synth melodies over the top. Sure the unstructured ambient space weirdness is part of it, but that seems to be much more of a focus in the stuff linked above.

I was always a fan of the Stage 2 track. Aside from the trippy intro, why does the melodic part of this song give me Symphony of the Night vibes?

https://youtu.be/RP_7H60e8Q0

I think Twin was the work of an outside contractor and not done by a composer considered part of the Zuntata team?Kind of confusing bc I guess Zuntata members did the sound programming in house just not the actual composition.

[qmish]

Way ahead of you! Was tucked into the parenthesis of the very next sentence

Sorry, haven't noticed it. Thanks.

The thing is I'm a guy who wore out his Future Sound of London and Orb and Boards of Canada albums. I'm the dot in the centre of the target audience for techno-ambient weirdness.

Ah. Then i shall ask if Milestone/KHDN (e.g. Chaos Field, Radirgy, Karous) could be closer choice. Though those were more into "club" stuff like speed garage, breakbeat, gabber etc.
Though if we were talking about *rave*, then it's either Raiden Fighters or F/A (Fighter & Attacker). But yeah, we're getting far away from you "dream shmup music", oops.

unstructured ambient space weirdness

I'd say G-Darius had most "avant" score, yeah.

[Sengoku Strider]

Ah. Then i shall ask if Milestone/KHDN (e.g. Chaos Field, Radirgy, Karous) could be closer choice. Though those were more into "club" stuff like speed garage, breakbeat, gabber etc.
Though if we were talking about *rave*, then it's either Raiden Fighters or F/A (Fighter & Attacker).

Never had the chance to play a Milestone shooter, but from a cursory listen on YouTube Radirgy sounds more like your standard Jpop dancey stuff. Sounds like it matches the visual tone well though.

Chaos Field sounds like late 90s industrial hardcore.

Karous sounds like it straddles a few of the 87 trillion drum n' bass subgenres.

But yeah, we're getting far away from you "dream shmup music", oops.

It's all good, they already made (and remade and remade) Rez.

[Steven]

I always forget that Karous actually has music... it's been like a year or maybe more since I played it, but I remember the music being super quiet when you actually play the game or something like that. Game's got some major sound balance issues for sure.

[BIL]

I'm comfortable saying that at least since 2003 when I started lurking around here, Souky has been regarded at least as fondly as Rayforce (and a perennial import favourite, particularly via the then-cheaper Otokuyo reprint... no idea if that still holds true, I got my Saturn collecting done a decade ago, and find the occasional glance back over my shoulder Lot-esque ).

As to why, that's a pretty easy one imo. The Joy Of Violent Movement. Souky's an innately more entertaining game than RS (or its closer contemporary and hardware stablemate RSG) that's still well within the upper echelons of superhumanly icy, prestige arcade performance. It also has ferocious destruction and a killer Sakimoto OST. Pardoning that curiously yawny first stage, it has all the elements of an STG thoroughbred.

At the same time, the scoring system shutting out the main shot is undeniably a bit half-baked - and this is where RF's laser-etched discipline gains some ground despite its less immediately-rewarding action, in my book anyway. You've a less rollicking ride in RF - ship is relatively slow, moderately-armed with no bomb, stages take their time hitting boiling point - but the advanced scoring is flawlessly crafted and absolutely white-knuckle, this on top of an already daunting survival challenge. As Jaimers nailed it, it's a classically ice-cold killathon with the man-on-wire performance ceiling that flourished in the decade's latter half.

(obligatory shout to Omega Fighter Special, UPL's remarkably prescient and flat-out loveable late-80s harbinger - suicidal stuntman scoring! chainsaw fury autofire on default! ESPGaluda chronokinetics some 15 years early, or however many years that is in slow-mo! and an all-time banger concept delivered with UPL's customary good cheer. "huge battleship stage?" my lords! this is a huge battleship game )

Regardless, these are two of the most universally well-loved titles on here. They don't blow the roof off the Top 25 or even always make the Top 25, but for whatever that's worth they're never far away from it or the HMs.

(I wonder if Tamayo was going for a contrast there, with the fairly chill in-game tunes that only really ramp up during boss duels... gives RF a certain eccentric character, skimming the jaws of death to eminently whistle-able tunes )

The shmuplations interview on Rayforce is a really good read. I was surprised to learn that her tracks were dropped in at the midnight hour sight unseen. The staff was worried they would actually have to go with using placeholder demos in the final game until a bike messenger of all things delivered the now legendary OST.

This kind of surprised me since like BIL said there's an odd sort of synergy between the gameplay and the music. I had always naively assumed this meant there was some especially tight coordination there.

Blimey, that's a helluva happy accident I seem to recall bikes playing pivotal roles in other shmuplations interviews, namely Hosoe and Uemura almost getting taken out Good to see a happier result

I was just thinking while getting reacquainted with Dragon Saber, another STG with marvelously synergistic music, how characteristically Taito-bleak RF is, its epic "Journey To The Center Of The Earth" saga notwithstanding (perhaps an underrated connection with Koutetsu Teikoku's NeoVictorian "Trip To The Moon," heh). It never gets into the oneiric surrealism of Darius, let alone Metal Black - though it does get close, with lategame uneasy listening like Mobius and Quartz, and their otherworldly technovistas - but it absolutely shares their depressive, fatalistic air of exile war. In all of these games, the obligatory superhuman enemy has long since won. As MB recalls, to the sight of a submarine stranded on baking sand that was once seabed, The Earth Died. In RF, it's doing fine - unfortunately, 99% of humanity died, the survivors eking out a tenuous existence off-world. They're murkier, more purgatorial affairs than good-naturedly gung-ho Gradius, or even last-hoping R-Type; victory is merely license to struggle on in a long-ruined world.

So their soundtracks taking a more melancholic, wryly unflappable, sometimes more sentimental tone always seemed bang-on, however deliberate. I get the feeling Zuntata were the sorts of consummate artists who could compellingly score games even if relying on concept art, storyboards, etc. I know OGR's talked a bit about his vision of Darius's signature weirdpop. At any rate, the Great Collapse has come and gone; in fact, some fifteen years and countless genre milestones on, Rayforce casts *you* as the despised Space Invader; a mass-produced killer from beyond, hell-bent on Earth's destruction. And Earth itself, the genocidal monster in need of vanquishing. Might as well keep a cool head as the hordes come screaming in to turn humanity's lights out once and for all.

This is of course the same publisher behind The Ninja Warriors and Elevator Action Returns, beloved all-action affairs that end infamously badly, for all their marquee zeal. I always thought of Taito and DECO as two sides of the Weird JP Arcade Guys coin. Taito protagonists can expect a KIA and hopefully a decent pension for the wife and kids. DECO guys end up getting chased by a shark, or some shit. Admittedly, as with wider aesthetics, when choosing between more reflective STG music and balls-to-the-wall militaristic stompers, my heart will ultimately always be with Konami, Toaplan, SNK and DECO's fiery paeans to the vanguard - "Gamushara" as Uemura calls it. That blistering single-minded drive to smash the enemy and drive them into the sea seems almost willfully absent from ZTT canon, I suppose why I find them so refreshing now and then. Funnily enough, the one exception I always had in mind - Gun Frontier, not without its mellow side, but whose stage 1 BGM is some of the genre's most elegiacally wrathful, period - wasn't ZTT's at all.

[Untitled1]

late to the party here but i managed to snag one of those special editions for Prime Day on Amazon.JP that includes R-Gear.

one weird thing I noticed on the order though, is that shipping is over $200 What in the heck? is this just to deter foreign buyers?

No way i'm paying that much. the regular 'special' edition is $20 to ship, but the R-GEAR download code adds $200? for emailing you a darn code?

Someone please tell me there's a way to not pay this crap.

[Jonpachi]

late to the party here but i managed to snag one of those special editions for Prime Day on Amazon.JP that includes R-Gear.

one weird thing I noticed on the order though, is that shipping is over $200 What in the heck? is this just to deter foreign buyers?

No way i'm paying that much. the regular 'special' edition is $20 to ship, but the R-GEAR download code adds $200? for emailing you a darn code?

Someone please tell me there's a way to not pay this crap.

We probably need to add a sticky for this, but Amazon Japan has a habit of posting high placeholder shipping fees and then updating it to a more normal number upon shipping. That said, it's happened to myself and others that they do actually charge your account that value, but will then refund you if you follow up on it.

[Untitled1]

late to the party here but i managed to snag one of those special editions for Prime Day on Amazon.JP that includes R-Gear.

one weird thing I noticed on the order though, is that shipping is over $200 What in the heck? is this just to deter foreign buyers?

No way i'm paying that much. the regular 'special' edition is $20 to ship, but the R-GEAR download code adds $200? for emailing you a darn code?

Someone please tell me there's a way to not pay this crap.

We probably need to add a sticky for this, but Amazon Japan has a habit of posting high placeholder shipping fees and then updating it to a more normal number upon shipping. That said, it's happened to myself and others that they do actually charge your account that value, but will then refund you if you follow up on it.

ehh, thanks, that's good to know. I'll have to deal with customer service then.

[professor ganson]

Not that Xevious isn't lame, that's pretty much factual (argh that audio).

Factual: it's so satisfying to abolish those ground targets, especially in the faster-paced sequels like Xevious Arrangement. The aesthetic of the world isn't for everyone, but I love it.