RetroTink 4K All But Officially Announced ....

[Josh128]

Agree on the 720p image on 768p panel. That is my gold standard. It looks even more amazing in person.

https://i.imgur.com/zBvnpdk.jpg


2 (or 3) game lines to 1 blank is usually the ratio needed to attain close to native resolution appearance. 1080p 1 to 1 will definitely be dimmer, but with the HDR capability of the 4K, should be acceptable on most modern LCD displays and even the newer/brighter OLEDs.

Below is what 2 game line to one blank line looks like on a 1440p monitor for a 480p source via the RT5X Pro. The pics are not the best but it looks quite nice in person.

https://i.imgur.com/AhUCn8D.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/9fIrgfg.jpg

Actual 480p on an HD CRT:



BTW I recently got to see one of the new Samsung QD-OLED sets at Best Buy, and it looked astonishingly beautiful. Got to see the new LG EVO G3 with it and its at the same level. The top LG and the top Samsungs are neck and neck. What surprised me though is some of the 85" 8K Neo QLED 8K LCD sets. I tend to not like LCD for anything other than PC or control panel use, but I have to admit, they have come a long way. They were seriously impressive looking for an LCD in terms of viewing angle, color, and contrast (from what I could garner at least, in the moderately lit showroom).

[tongshadow]

I dont think a true 1280x720 panel has ever existed for both LCD and Plasmas.

there was a 1024x720px panel on 37" Panasonic plasma sets.

Yea Im looking at the model: TX-P37X10B. It looks exceedingly rare, too bad they stopped making Plasmas at that size.

[DejahThoris]

I am hoping that this will work with my AES, which the 5X does not. I think that's the only thing making me hang onto my OSSC at this point...

I'm hoping it plays nicely with 480i. I tried one of the other tink offerings, the one that everyone said was best for 480i, but I still think the OSSC after some settings changes looks closer.

720p content looks extremely sharp on my HD Plasma displays! If the RT4K's mask effect is capable of replicating plasma cells, then it's gonna be a champion for 720p gaming on modern displays.
https://i.imgur.com/q4tQSyO.jpeg

This is my other big hope. Great 720p handling. And a plasma effect would really sell me.

I may have missed it, but does it support HDMI 2.1?

[orange808]

...does it support HDMI 2.1?

HDMI 2.0

https://www.retrotink.com/post/introduc ... trotink-4k

[DejahThoris]

...does it support HDMI 2.1?

HDMI 2.0

https://www.retrotink.com/post/introduc ... trotink-4k

Well that's a bit of a disappointment.

[jd213]

I guess this means no VRR then, so things like PS1 240p-480i transitions will still require triple buffering?

[Guspaz]

The RT5X supports flagging as VRR and doesn't even support HDMI 2.0.

[strayan]

Which is the native resolution of that panel?

1024x768, but scaling 1280x720 to that still produces very good results, far better than 720p to 1080p, and specially 720p to 4k. I dont think a true 1280x720 panel has ever existed for both LCD and Plasmas.

I don’t see why the new retrotink thing wouldn’t be able to emulate a native 720p panel.

I’ll probably retire my 1365x768 plasma for a 4k OLED once they get a bit brighter.

1280x720 to 1024x768 scaling looks sensational. Here’s a Sony plasma circa 2003 I picked up for testing:

https://imgur.com/a/kGk8Rxd

[orange808]

Which is the native resolution of that panel?

1024x768, but scaling 1280x720 to that still produces very good results, far better than 720p to 1080p, and specially 720p to 4k. I dont think a true 1280x720 panel has ever existed for both LCD and Plasmas.

I don’t see why the new retrotink thing wouldn’t be able to emulate a native 720p panel.

I’ll probably retire my 1365x768 plasma for a 4k OLED once they get a bit brighter.

1280x720 to 1024x768 scaling looks sensational. Here’s a Sony plasma circa 2003 I picked up for testing:

https://imgur.com/a/kGk8Rxd

Does it matter? You can use a little underscan on the top and bottom of the screen.

[tongshadow]

They do look properly underscanned because I can see the borders. Unless that's the massive bezel.

[strayan]

That is indeed just the bezel.

[strygo]

I also noticed Extron HD-HD 4k machines are hitting ebay and trending down (headed for under $1000usd). Interesting timing after the announcement.

I noticed that as well. Given we have a few retro scalers on the horizon, it probably doesn't make sense to pick one of these up at this point. Has anyone reviewed one for retro purposes? @Fudoh: do you have one?

[tongshadow]

I also noticed Extron HD-HD 4k machines are hitting ebay and trending down (headed for under $1000usd). Interesting timing after the announcement.

I noticed that as well. Given we have a few retro scalers on the horizon, it probably doesn't make sense to pick one of these up at this point. Has anyone reviewed one for retro purposes? @Fudoh: do you have one?

Costs as much as the Tink4K and has no game-centered features. Might as well wait for the Tink4K.

[Fudoh]

Has anyone reviewed one for retro purposes? @Fudoh: do you have one?

of course. I have an Extron DSC HD-HD 4K and an Extron DSC 401. Both very much an evolution of the 301 with added 4K60 support.

They do exactly what you expect them to do. 1 frame of lag with framelock available on the HD-HD 4K. But definitely nothing I would recommend any longer with the RT4K and the Morph upcoming, especially since Extron is a dead-end when it comes to feature request of even compatibility issues in consumer setups, while Mike and Chris will certainly serve the community for years to come.

[Guspaz]

I was thinking about waiting for rotation, but I may not have that luxury.

Rotation almost confirmed on the RT4K!!

Maybe I should actually get one of these mythical TATE games. Never played one in my life.

Rotation can go both CW or CCW. Don't know what the standard is, so all bases covered.

[orange808]

That's poetry. There is no standard, by the way. I have PCBs that go in both directions.

Hello, ebay. I got some things to do. The Vio 4k is dead before it ever began.

[bobrocks95]

People were all in agreement that Mike was a beast...

[Josh128]

Lol was?? I think the announcement of the Morph launch just lit a new fire under Mike. Competition is good.

[kitty666cats]

He really went from "unsure" to figuring this rotation shit out in like a week's time, lol. Mike Chi is the man. Especially when you remember developing RetroTink products is a secondary job (his main source of income is damn impressive, too) for the guy. Much respect

[Guspaz]

It says "up to 4K60" scaling-- does this mean that BFI is limited to 1080p output? Is this the same for the RT4K?

Within the 600 MHz pixel clock limit of HDMI 2.0, you can't do all that much more than 4K60. However, 4K70 is doable if it's 4:3 (2880x2160, and you could push it to 4K85 or maaaaybe 4K90 if you're trying to scale a high refresh retro PC at 4:3), and if you want to do BFI, you can drop down to 1440p to get 120 Hz (or 140 Hz if you want to BFI some DOS stuff), or 1080p if you want 240 Hz for extra intense BFI.

Other BFI options include simulating a film projector with double strobe 24 Hz at 96 Hz (doable at 1440p) and triple strobe 24 Hz at 144 Hz. Both of which should be possible at 1440p (albeit with RBv2 for 144 Hz).

Also, if your display is OK with it, you can even try to push the resolution higher to see if that gets you some improvements. 2844x1600, for example, is 16:9, and at 120 Hz, still just barely fits under 600 MHz with RBv2, assuming your TV is OK with it.

[WobblingPixels]

Here are a few images of the Retrotink 4K CRT mask & scanlines (off-screen) vs 4K upscaled with optimal sampling

https://i.ibb.co/v10bG5y/F2uk6x3-XQAAc5yd.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/0j9Mv57/F2uk-d-DXk-AASq-V4.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/dmMrqdk/Unbenannt.png
https://i.ibb.co/ccp0cKm/Unbenannt2.png

https://i.ibb.co/18L4cLK/ps2-480i2.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/JyMCBSq/F23q98-Xc-AAz-Nrg.jpg

The chroma sampling is due to my capture card.

[Konsolkongen]

Here are a few images of the Retrotink 4K CRT mask & scanlines (off-screen) vs 4K upscaled with optimal sampling

https://i.ibb.co/v10bG5y/F2uk6x3-XQAAc5yd.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/0j9Mv57/F2uk-d-DXk-AASq-V4.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/dmMrqdk/Unbenannt.png
https://i.ibb.co/ccp0cKm/Unbenannt2.png

https://i.ibb.co/18L4cLK/ps2-480i2.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/JyMCBSq/F23q98-Xc-AAz-Nrg.jpg

The chroma sampling is due to my capture card.

Wow that Subaru car looks like Sonic once you apply CRT masks :O

[Bahn Yuki]

I was wondering if anyone knew if the Tink-4k would support FRL at all? I have an HD Fury VRROOM than can upscale FRL up to 8k/60hz. My projector's fastest mode happens to be 8k@60hz(internal 240hz) so that would really be a deciding factor for me.

[bobrocks95]

I was wondering if anyone knew if the Tink-4k would support FRL at all? I have an HD Fury VRROOM than can upscale FRL up to 8k/60hz. My projector's fastest mode happens to be 8k@60hz(internal 240hz) so that would really be a deciding factor for me.

Fixed Rate Link? Looks like that's a signaling method new for HDMI 2.1a? Both Morph and Tink 4 have an HDMI 2.0b output maxed at 4K@60Hz (Tink has the 4:3 4K 70Hz mode for DOS), so no.

[Bahn Yuki]

https://www.murideo.com/frl-data-rate-chart.html

I was hoping the upcoming devices would support FRL 2. that's 4k/60hz @4:4:4

[bobrocks95]

They're both 4K 60Hz 4:4:4 output, but still using TMDS.

[Bahn Yuki]

That's disappointing. I guess I'll have to wait for the ossc pro then.

[VEGETA]

HDMI and similar protocols are serial data, hence TMDS.

what is your requirement though? do you need raw 30-bit RGB signal itself? all 30-bits in parallel?

[Bahn Yuki]

My HD Fury vrroom can upscale frl up to 8k. My jvc nz8 lowest lag mode is in 8k@60hz(frl6). With these new products I was hoping for frl2, then having my HD Fury vrroom take it to 8k/60hz

[bobrocks95]

My HD Fury vrroom can upscale frl up to 8k. My jvc nz8 lowest lag mode is in 8k@60hz(frl6). With these new products I was hoping for frl2, then having my HD Fury vrroom take it to 8k/60hz

Sure it won't take a 4K 60Hz input? OSSC Pro is extremely unlikely to have an HDMI 2.1 chip as well.