Wish we had more TBS/RTS shmup spin-offs

[qmish]

Considering how great shmups are for bestiary of enemies, especially on tech side, feels like a natural fit for me to have strategy game spin-offs, either real-time or turn-based.

Except R-Type Tactics series, what do we have?

[BIL]

I like to think of Herzog Zwei as a stealth HyperDuel prequel.

Weren't there a couple of Konami TBSs for Gradius and/or Parodius? Cosmic Wars, or something... I never really looked into them. Maybe I'm mixing them up with physical board games.

[Ed Oscuro]

For every "successful" example of this genre there is a game like Metal Slug Defense. But actually...MS Defense is a bit fun, if you're willing to pace yourself.

[qmish]

For every "successful" example of this genre there is a game like Metal Slug Defense. But actually...MS Defense is a bit fun, if you're willing to pace yourself.

Metal Slug also has this (unless it's cancelled)

https://youtu.be/DqF0KLsaf6U

[dojo_b]

I'm going to agree with the thread's contention and, at the same time, file it next to my position that cereal mascots should have detailed backstories.
Whether zakos or sweetened grain surplus are on offer, I need to know that my mindless routines are inscribed in a much larger tale of joy and struggle.

[XoPachi]

Mushihimesama bug/dragon raising tower defense rpg. Raise all your little buggos and dinos from babies to kaiju. Defend against some new threat trying to ruin Shinju Forest and Hoshifuri village.

I'd buy it.

[Mortificator]

Part of the problem, even if there is an audience, is that wargames have a big emphasis on factions. Axis and Allies, GDI and Nod, Terrans and Protoss and Zerg. While in your typical shooter, you have the massive military complex on one side and the few (or one) elite superfighters on the other.

I don't even know what the Gradian Empire's armed forces are like. The only glimpses are some ships that get blown up at the beginning of the 2nd Game Boy game and some that may or may not be on your side fighting in the background of one stage in Salamander 2. Their annals of war read "we were getting our shit wrecked and then sent in Vic Viper" over and over.

R-Type had a few things going for it in that regard before it got to Tactics. The player was always supposed to be, not the one & only R-9, but the one who made it through. Earlier media like the library in R-Types had done a little world-building. The Final team made a shitload of human small craft that could potentially fulfill different roles as unit types.

[BIL]

I don't even know what the Gradian Empire's armed forces are like. The only glimpses are some ships that get blown up at the beginning of the 2nd Game Boy game and some that may or may not be on your side fighting in the background of one stage in Salamander 2. Their annals of war read "we were getting our shit wrecked and then sent in Vic Viper" over and over.

Are there any asymmetrical wargames (console/PC)? I know there's at least a few boardgames like that, typically based on the classic Godzilla scenario of a single giant monster VS a shitload of tanks and planes.

Might be interesting, at least thematically, to get the enemy's perspective of a Vic/R9/Raiden; not a harrowingly outnumbered and fragile player-craft, but a terrifyingly quick yet powerful nemesis, tearing around the map as you desperately attempt to corner it, before your infrastructure is crippled and the enemy's otherwise-doomed forces gain a foothold.

Going perilously off-topic a sec... I like how Contra: Shattered Soldier's unlockable history portrays Contra III as not a two-man show, but a surgical strike within a larger campaign; one that crippled the enemy's command structure (Operation SOCK THE BRAIN), and allowed Earth to mount a decisive counterattack. Much like the previous two games' commando raids on alien-held human bases. The scenario is still wonderfully outsized - remember, "Contra" is awarded only to commandos displaying "near-superhuman" abilities, like accurately firing a machinegun with one hand while doing one-armed pullup somersaults across flying missiles with the other! - but I enjoy the sensibly elliptical garnish of hyperreality. I can fill in the blanks happily on my own time (st1+2/take out vital anti-tank/anti-air units; st3/liberate the power plant; st4+5/break through the enemy's defensive line; st6/sock the brain or die tryin').

It's like the Gradius III & IV cg intro showing the Vic undergoing routine maintenance during downtime, y'know? I don't want the muffler to act up mid-credit, but I certainly like the nod to it.

[Licorice]

There's a few like that e.g. Dungeon Keeper and its clones.

More generally, RTSes can be more or less symmetrical. On one extreme you have games where you simply can't set up a symmetric match e.g. Company of Heroes. On the other you have Age of Empires where every civilization is just a minor variant of the other. Not sure if that's what you meant tho.

[pieslice]

Are there any asymmetrical wargames (console/PC)?

I remember the old War of the Worlds RTS if you play as the martians. They didn't have unit building unlike the human faction so you had to cope with the tripods you were given at the start.

[Ed Oscuro]

Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds is one of the real gems of the PAL exclusive PS1 library, with some RTS-lite elements, although it is more an action game with tactical elements (although I think the tactical elements deepen the later you get into the campaign). Never played the PC version which is a totally different game and a more traditional RTS.

Humans vs. aliens style RTS-like games can't be mentioned without the classic Half-Life mod Natural Selection, a mix of FPS and RTS genres. Then there's also its precursor Command & Conquer: Renegade in that kind of genre, with wide-open maps. More recently, some Left 4 Dead style games seem to let you play as the "director." Battlefield series games sometimes had a Commander.

A more RTS-like title that broke the mold was Age of Empires: Castle Strike (RIP, gone 3 years come May). The basic gameplay consisted of building a castle defense and harvesting resources there (like any mobile F2P title); on offense players would go and try to take down other castles with the army they'd raised and leveled. It was a strictly symmetrical gameplay experience with an element of skill, assuming you had the right time investment to be competitive - in practice I think almost all battles were asymmetric but the game was decent about matching players with castles that could be conquered with good tactics. Elite unit, hero selection, and ingame tactics made more of a difference for the attacker than a slight power level deficit with a defender who had slightly more investment. Swapping to different civs unlocked different heroes and special units, but you could mix and match them once unlocked. As far as I could tell, there were favored meta hero and elite unit combos in use right till the end. It was still a fairly decent game all told, if you could ignore the constant monetization efforts and could find opponents close to your level. Not quite chess, but not entirely a P2W cash grab either.

Speaking of all this reminds me that I really ought to give Sierra's Outpost another try...again. It's a classic but kinda ugly to play. No, it's not an RTS, but it still feels like one given how quickly you'll die if you aren't good!