Mushi, DDP Res, Esp 2 for Switch

[TransatlanticFoe]

If the app icon refreshes, perhaps it's treating the two as different games - which is why it works in spite of the version number difference?

Pushing updates requires a base cost to increment the version and perform basic testing, and for what? To fix an edge case which has a workaround? Can they even bump everything to the same version number if they have different content? If you synchronise the releases the will people moan they lost their exclusive stuff? Perhaps even finding a better way to manage it in future comes at a cost. I'd be surprised if they do anything given the only people impacted are those who buy multiple copies of the same thing - and they can still play the game. It's inelegant but it's not completely broken.

The simple solution, of course, is to not fuck around in the first place and just have the same thing across all releases - so everything stays synchronised to the same version number.

[hamfighterx]

If the app icon refreshes, perhaps it's treating the two as different games - which is why it works in spite of the version number difference?

There's obviously something weird going on, but I don't think that's quite it. Any time you insert/remove any Switch cartridge, it does the quick flash on the app icon (has to update to show the little picture of an inserted/removed cartridge above the app tile), happens even if you only have the cartridge of that game. This is just a little unique in that there are different versions reflected from what's downloaded to your system versus the cart in the cartridge slot.

As for an example where the app refreshes and there ARE still issues: Espgaluda II LRG cart, which messes up the eshop version and gets messed up by the SDX version. It is possible for different versions to exist in harmony on one system though, as shown by SDX/eShop Galuda II playing nice together.

Usually, if a game is truly treated as two different versions, they get their own independent app icons. I've had this occur with several games where I own multiple versions/copies. Some examples:
- Japan physical and US eshop of Radirgy Noah
- US stand-alone versions of G Darius HD and DBCS (by Inin) versus the Japanese Darius Cozmic Revelation (which adds separate icons for each game) - both games have a separate app for the different version
- I'm not sure whether I've seen a same-region eShop and physical game that have separate apps, but it feels like something I might have run into a with an LRG release of a game I already bought on eshop? Normally I delete the downloaded versions once I have a cart though, to save storage space on my Switch's SD card. If anyone has a good example of a same-region game where this does happen, would be interesting to hear.

The simple solution, of course, is to not fuck around in the first place and just have the same thing across all releases - so everything stays synchronised to the same version number.

Live Wire seemed dead set on getting the arrange soundtracks into DFK, Espgaluda II, and Radiant Silvergun physicals, which is what seems to have caused the issues in the first place (with the latter two, the first LRG cart to ship was DFK and that's the one without a problem). I'm convinced that's also the reason the Limited Run releases for all of those games took a longer than usual time by LRG standards to ship, they all took a little over a year for me to receive.

It just strikes me as odd that Live Wire, who obviously took a great deal of time and expense to get this luxury feature added to the carts, wouldn't also spend the incremental amount to push an update to not break the downloaded versions that they must know a lot of their fans already had. Unless this is solely a matter of Live Wire saying F it, we don't care if we ruin previous versions - the cart with soundtrack version takes priority over all! But if that's the case... how do you explain DFK working fine? They've done it right in 1 out of 3 of these releases with added on-cart soundtracks.

Can they even bump everything to the same version number if they have different content?

Yes. DFK has the same version number (1.0.4) across all versions including eShop release, SDX cart, and LRG cart. Only the cartridge versions have the arrange soundtrack.

[Jucksalbe]

They just released a patch for Espgaluda II that supposedly fixes this problem (and for Radiant Silvergun, too).

[hamfighterx]

Yep, they sure did. Just updated and my downloaded RSG and Espgaluda II both work again. The LRG Galuda cart also works again (prior to this patch it didn’t after the SDX one was used).

And the update does seem to have been pushed out to eshop by Live Wire.

[SavagePencil]

Does it just fix the versioning issue, or did they go ahead and give the exclusive content to everybody?

[hamfighterx]

Just fixes the version/update issue, does not add the extra arrange soundtrack to the download version or LRG Espgaluda cart. I currently I see a consistent v1.0.8 on all 3 versions of Espgaluda II that I have (US eShop, LRG cart, Super Deluxe cart). Aside from fixing the update issue, I'm not aware of any other changes from this patch.

I think the chiptune arrange soundtracks for the Super Deluxe versions (and LRG Radiant Silvergun) are actually playing from the cartridge and aren't installed on the Switch? At any rate, this brings Espgaluda II in line with Daifukkatsu in that there are multiple versions that all share the same version number, but only the Super Deluxe cart has the in-game chiptune arrange soundtrack. Same deal with RSG eShop version (no arrange soundtrack) & Limited Run cart (yes chiptune soundtrack).

All fixed I guess, crisis averted - aside from having to update for the Espgaluda LRG version for compatibility if you ever insert the Super Deluxe cart into the same system.

Big thanks to Warp_Rattler for formally reporting this, perhaps that helped spur some action (and maybe in some tiny way, even this discussion caught the attention of someone who needed to know to make the update).

[Ms. Tea]

I think the chiptune arrange soundtracks for the Super Deluxe versions (and LRG Radiant Silvergun) are actually playing from the cartridge and aren't installed on the Switch?

I've never shipped a Switch game and don't know the details of Nintendo's backend, but if I had to guess they're probably handled as "DLC" on the game cartridge to unlock extra content. May work the same way that it's possible to have multiple game titles on one cartridge.

[hamfighterx]

Interesting, another patch hit today for the same issue with a different eShop/LRG release. This time it's Ancient's Gotta Protectors, which I saw reposted by Yuzo Koshiro: https://twitter.com/GottaProtectors/sta ... 1691148522

[AGermanArtist]

Have Live Wire indicated their intentions to release more (possibly CAVE CV1000-B) STG?
I figured if anyone was going to release Mushi Futari or Ibara Kuro, it'd be them.

[Sumez]

I could see Futari, but Ibara doesn't sound feasible for them.

Keep in mind, what they are doing isn't releasing ports of CV1000 games - they are releasing ports of Xbox 360 games

[AGermanArtist]

And City Connection would be more likely to get to Saidaioujou, Muchi Pork and Pink Sweets first, leaving Guwange for Livewire (if they deem it worthwhile).
Looks like we've found M2's next Shot Triggers Detective Sumez (unless they go with Do DonPachi first).

[Tokyo-J]

And City Connection would be more likely to get to Saidaioujou, Muchi Pork and Pink Sweets first, leaving Guwange for Livewire (if they deem it worthwhile).
Looks like we've found M2's next Shot Triggers Detective Sumez (unless they go with Do DonPachi first).

With the fella delaying the DDP Custom Campaign release I would think M2 or someone else would be releasing the OG Dodonpachi with included Campaign mode shortly.

[hamfighterx]

I could see Futari, but Ibara doesn't sound feasible for them.

I'm actually pretty surprised they didn't do Futari. But yeah, we're talking about Cave-published Xbox 360 games, so that leaves Futari, SDOJ, Pink Sweets, Muchi Muchi Pork, and Guwange.

Does feel like it would have been pretty minimal effort to use the same tools/processes to release other Cave 360 titles, but Live Wire seems to have largely moved past STG ports after releasing the trio of Cave 360 ports to Switch in 2021 (and the 360 version of RSG in 2022, which also just got a Steam release with some port quality issues a couple months back). Perhaps it's a licensing matter, because since Live Wire published their 3 Cave ports we've seen other Cave 360 ports published by City Connection (Deathsmiles I&II, Akai Katana). Maybe Cave licensed the first three to Live Wire then started working with City Connection instead, and didn't offer LW any further games? Who knows.

For whatever reason, it does feel like Live Wire is more focused on original work these days though, and as a small company (their website says they had 24 employees as of June 2023) I doubt they have capacity to juggle many simultaneous projects.

2021 they released Ender Lilies (2D Metroidvania/Soulslike)
2022 they did Harvestella, published by Square Enix (a charmingly weird little game, anime style action-RPG/farming/relationship sim with sorta Phantasy Star Online style action stages and an insane sci-fi story)
Currently they're working on 9th Sentinel Sisters, a rogue-lite twin-stick shooter that has been available in Early Access on Steam since October

[Ms. Tea]

The other thing I'll mention is that Futari was ported by M2, while the others were all ported in-house. If I had to guess, that probably means that a new port of 360 Futari is more complex, or at least more expensive, than the other options. I keep wondering about SDOJ - I figured someone would have gotten to it by now, unless Exa bought a license for the home port to ensure it stayed exlusive to their new rerelease. Akai Katana getting a rerelease kind of suggests maybe not though.

[Steven]

Didn't Live Wire mess up some chaining stuff in PC and Switch Daifukkatsu?

9th Sentinel Sisters is pretty interesting BTW. I play it almost every day. It's not finished yet, but it's generally pretty good in its current state.

[Jonpachi]

I think it’s possible M2 own the rights to original work they did, which would mean any Arrange modes would potentially have to be removed unless they wanted to pay M2 off. Doing the work to rip them out might end up being just as costly. I’d imagine there’s deals being discussed since Mushi is still a recognizable brand, and would be a natural follow-up for Live Wire.

[BEAMLORD]

Does Livewire have any interest in porting their Cave games to PS4/5, would anyone know? I have them on Switch, but my PS5 has become my primary console. Would love to get Mushi and DFK on it.

[Steven]

Damn, I just discovered that Live Wire is a really new company, as it was founded in 2018. Getting those CAVE licenses, which was like the very first thing the company did, probably means that either Live Wire must have some cool employees or CAVE is super desperate to not go bankrupt and will give their IPs to anyone that is willing to pay for them.

Can't blame them for wanting to do their own stuff, though; STGs haven't exactly been a great way for a company to get rich since like 1990. Thanks, Capcom.

[AGermanArtist]

Who is this Live Wire Inc. publisher anyway?

It's a small company that appears to have some former Cave staff. Makoto Takada, for one.

[Jonpachi]

Seems fair to assume they started with Switch to focus on a single, popular platform known to be friendly to smaller and/or retro titles, but will now reinvest that into expanding into more.

[pablumatic]

With the total dominance of Nintendo in Japan, I get why some Japanese devs are more devoted to Switch exclusivity at the moment. I hope they do expand their efforts in the future.

[Jonpachi]

Just freeing these games up from the Xbox 360 (and not to forget Radiant Silvergun as well) has been such a gift. I love my Japanese 360 collection, but it was always a hyper-niche platform that has only become less and less accessible over the years. I'd be very happy to see them finish off the Cave collection they have access too, which I would assume includes at least MMP, PS and DDP-SDOJ, with Futari being a bit more of a wild-card with the previously-mentioned M2 legal/ownership of content issue possibly delaying a new port.