PixelFX Morph

[TooBeaucoup]

don't think that the majority as a whole aren't still rocking a ton of systems with analog outputs?

I don't actually, I think people using all original hardware, with a games room stuffed full of original consoles, are the exception rather than the rule. Considering original hardware breaks down, requires maintenance like recapping etc, I know at least two people here given up on it partially or entirely.

True, someone who just wants to retro game on a Raspberry Pi or similar probably doesn't care to get a Morph, RetroTINK etc anyway and is just as happy with the native output of the system so you're never going to sell a 4k scaler to them no matter how affordable you make it.

Mike sold out both batches of the Tink4k almost immediately and from what I understand, it wasn't exactly a small amount of units. You mean to tell me that all those people were mostly interested in the HDMI input on the Tink4k and not the analog inputs??? All those people could've gotten a Morph for way less money if they didn't care about analog inputs, and I don't think most people dropping $750 on a scaler are stupid and unaware of the other options out there. They went out of their way to grab a Tink4k for a reason. What is that reason? I don't think it was blind loyalty to a brand or ignorance of the cheaper options like the Morph or OSSC Pro.

[BuckoA51]

I'm still not sure what point you're trying to make though, that they shouldn't sell the digital only Morph because the majority of people want digital and analogue? What's wrong with catering to a smaller market?

Fact is, their analogue bridge isn't out yet, so we can't offer for sale something that doesn't exist yet.

[tongshadow]

They went out of their way to grab a Tink4k for a reason. What is that reason?

Fear of Missing Out and/or Early Adoption.

[fernan1234]

Fear of Missing Out and/or Early Adoption.

But then you have to ask how come there's no FOMO/early adoption for this or the OSSC Pro. The very small first OSSC Pro batch did sell out in a couple of days IIRC, but this second one seems to be moving slowly: https://videogameperfection.com/products/ossc-pro/ (76 left at the time of this post)

[Extrems]

I don't actually, I think people using all original hardware, with a games room stuffed full of original consoles, are the exception rather than the rule.

I'm still not sure what point you're trying to make though, that they shouldn't sell the digital only Morph because the majority of people want digital and analogue? What's wrong with catering to a smaller market?

I'm sorry, what?

[tongshadow]

Fear of Missing Out and/or Early Adoption.

But then you have to ask how come there's no FOMO/early adoption for this or the OSSC Pro.

Cant speak for the Pro, but the Morph wasnt out at that time, so the Tink4K was the only option for those who "wanted a 4k retroscaler right now".
In due time, people seriously considering both 4k options will sit back and think: "Wait a second, I dont need to spend nearly $750 on a next-gen scaler if there's an option that does this for less than half of the price".

At the moment, the only thing the Morph cant do is HDR10, but it seems it wont take long to be implemented.

[Guspaz]

There is no configuration of the Morph that is "less than half the price" of the RT4K. The closest equivalent configuration is two-thirds, more if you include a premium remote. The cheapest configuration regardless of capability difference is still more than half the price.

The Morph is going to have an important place in the market, but people should understand what all the options are, and what each one can do. Honestly, you can get a pretty great image taking an original OSSC in generic sampling mode set to 6x output and plugging it directly into your TV, there's a really wide breadth of available options today.

[fernan1234]

Cant speak for the Pro, but the Morph wasnt out at that time, so the Tink4K was the only option for those who "wanted a 4k retroscaler right now".

You could say this for the first batch, but when the second larger batch also sold out in less than two hours these were already available and shipping. Clearly there must be something else going on than just FOMO.

[BuckoA51]

I'm sorry, what?

You'll have to give me more than that I don't know what about those two statements made you do a double take.

At the moment, the only thing the Morph cant do is HDR10, but it seems it wont take long to be implemented

Well let's not forget rotation too, or the small fact that the analogue bridge isn't out yet (yes you can use another scaler as an analogue bridge and that will get you great results don't get me wrong, but it's not as good as a dedicated analogue input directly into the scaler).

People who want the bleeding edge solution right now, want a RetroTINK 4k over a Morph, of course that might not always be the case. Morph's potential to leverage it's unique features like WiFi and USB for things like GameID and infinity switch are going to be interesting to see, but in the here and now, it's the budget 4K option, or the option for the market segment that only need HDMI, and that's fine.

[tongshadow]

There is no configuration of the Morph that is "less than half the price" of the RT4K. The closest equivalent configuration is two-thirds, more if you include a premium remote. The cheapest configuration regardless of capability difference is still more than half the price.

I dont quite understand why. I already have an OSSC and it works well with the Morph 4k. What extra cost beyond the $400 am I incurring?

You could say this for the first batch, but when the second larger batch also sold out in less than two hours these were already available and shipping. Clearly there must be something else going on than just FOMO.

Likely the people who missed on the first batch. Being the first to officially launch also gave the Tink4K a huge advantage.
The Tink4K is a great product, but my point is that the Morph fills in the market gap for those who only need the 4k scaling and next-gen scaling features at a more reasonable price.

[ldeveraux]

i didn't intend to derail this thread, but here we are. I guess this device isn't for me in its currently sold state. It was honestly between this and the 4k when I was considering upgrading to something that has HDMI input. This was late to the party and doesn't have analog input capabilities yet. It's a shame. Still both are out of my price range atm, so I'll just stick with the RT5x gold.

[bobrocks95]

i didn't intend to derail this thread, but here we are. I guess this device isn't for me in its currently sold state. It was honestly between this and the 4k when I was considering upgrading to something that has HDMI input. This was late to the party and doesn't have analog input capabilities yet. It's a shame. Still both are out of my price range atm, so I'll just stick with the RT5x gold.

Sounds like the OSSC Pro would be perfect for you?

[WobblingPixels]

Likely the people who missed on the first batch. Being the first to officially launch also gave the Tink4K a huge advantage.

The Morph went earlier for pre-orders (shpping by the end 2023/Q1 2024) which should be an advantage to attract potential buyers. R4k was just sent out to customers earlier because it was not a pre-order but at stock.
The problem with Morph's popularity isn't really the launch date but missing presence of any previews and reviews (except one?!)

WobblingPixels posted an interesting collection of notes on the current state of things. Going by this it's probably a good thing no one has created a review video yet. I get the feeling this is more like an open beta rather than a product launch. I hope PixelFX can get things squared away by the time they get their analog input boards made and then we can see a real product launch.

Spoiler

https://x.com/WobblingP/status/1766967131432714337?s=20

I posted an update here: https://twitter.com/WobblingP/status/17 ... 9933380677

They fixed some of the bugs (including the input lag and vrr). Input lag is about on par with the R4k. In some cases slightly better or worse: https://www.retrorgb.com/koalas-korner- ... -2024.html Other things will be fixed and implemented in the future according to PixelFX. I hope it also applies to Motion Adaptive Deinterlacing:

OSSC Pro's MADI:



Morp's MADI:

[ldeveraux]

i didn't intend to derail this thread, but here we are. I guess this device isn't for me in its currently sold state. It was honestly between this and the 4k when I was considering upgrading to something that has HDMI input. This was late to the party and doesn't have analog input capabilities yet. It's a shame. Still both are out of my price range atm, so I'll just stick with the RT5x gold.

Sounds like the OSSC Pro would be perfect for you?

I think the 4k is perfect for me apart from the price. The OSSC is fine, but I don't NEED it, the 5x is just fine for my use case, I really like Mike's products and support.

[tongshadow]

The Morph went earlier for pre-orders (shpping by the end 2023/Q1 2024) which should be an advantage to attract potential buyers. R4k was just sent out to customers earlier because it was not a pre-order but at stock.
The problem with Morph's popularity isn't really the launch date but missing presence of any previews and reviews (except one?!)

That is true, but they also got criticized for opening discounted pre-orders without even having a real picture of the product. In fact, some even doubted the existence of the Morph.
Some testers got prototypes, but none of the high profile members of the community did, such as MLiG. So yes, the lack of presence also hurt the Morph.

[Guspaz]

There is no configuration of the Morph that is "less than half the price" of the RT4K. The closest equivalent configuration is two-thirds, more if you include a premium remote. The cheapest configuration regardless of capability difference is still more than half the price.

I dont quite understand why. I already have an OSSC and it works well with the Morph 4k. What extra cost beyond the $400 am I incurring?

I'm not sure where your difficulty is. 400 is more than half of 750. Not less than half.

[tongshadow]

There is no configuration of the Morph that is "less than half the price" of the RT4K. The closest equivalent configuration is two-thirds, more if you include a premium remote. The cheapest configuration regardless of capability difference is still more than half the price.

I dont quite understand why. I already have an OSSC and it works well with the Morph 4k. What extra cost beyond the $400 am I incurring?

I'm not sure where your difficulty is. 400 is more than half of 750. Not less than half.

Close enough, not to mention the Morph could be had for $350 during pre-orders, and likely will reach that price again.

[Konsolkongen]

Likely the people who missed on the first batch. Being the first to officially launch also gave the Tink4K a huge advantage.

The Morph went earlier for pre-orders (shpping by the end 2023/Q1 2024) which should be an advantage to attract potential buyers. R4k was just sent out to customers earlier because it was not a pre-order but at stock.
The problem with Morph's popularity isn't really the launch date but missing presence of any previews and reviews (except one?!)

WobblingPixels posted an interesting collection of notes on the current state of things. Going by this it's probably a good thing no one has created a review video yet. I get the feeling this is more like an open beta rather than a product launch. I hope PixelFX can get things squared away by the time they get their analog input boards made and then we can see a real product launch.

Spoiler

https://x.com/WobblingP/status/1766967131432714337?s=20

I posted an update here: https://twitter.com/WobblingP/status/17 ... 9933380677

They fixed some of the bugs (including the input lag and vrr). Input lag is about on par with the R4k. In some cases slightly better or worse: https://www.retrorgb.com/koalas-korner- ... -2024.html Other things will be fixed and implemented in the future according to PixelFX. I hope it also applies to Motion Adaptive Deinterlacing:

OSSC Pro's MADI:



Morp's MADI:

Motion adaptive looks really bad on DCdigital HW2 as well. Hoping this will be adressed too, and back ported to their other products.

[tongshadow]

MA wasnt working properly on the PS1/PS2 GEM either, and only after many members brought it up it got fixed.
It looked exactly like that, the picture looked extremely jaggy. Eventually it got fixed, but it's strange to see it again on other products.

[Konsolkongen]

On Dreamcast I would expect a 480i still shot to look comparable to 480p with MA, and especially weave. But it looks extremely jaggy, which isn’t right. It’s not much better than bob deinterlacing.

[BuckoA51]

OSSC Pro's deinterlacer has quite a bit of combing but I still prefer it at the moment for sure, I'm assured they are looking into fixing/improving the MA deinterlacer and possibly offering more user controlled options for fine tuning it too.

[WobblingPixels]

OSSC Pro's deinterlacer has quite a bit of combing

The OSSC Pro has the setting to balance it out between more/less combing at costs of sharpness.

https://i.ibb.co/mC6Kv3f/shift-3.png
https://i.ibb.co/S6g5jqZ/shift-0.png

Combing visibility varies from game to game so it's great to have this setting and if I am not mistaken PixelFX added same setting with the latest firmware (with low, medium and high options) ..but that doesn't tackle the MADI problem reported here.

[BuckoA51]

You mean the jittery pixels around some edges? I think that has to be a regression as I saw it too clear as day when I was testing some PS2 stuff recently, but never noticed it during the beta. Anyway its definitely been reported so fingers crossed for a fix soon.

[Radiorufus]

Does anyone have an easy to follow guide for which settings to use on the RetroTINK 5x as an adapter into the FX? I’m pretty new to this and want to make sure I actually get this right.

[BuckoA51]

For 240p you can use either the 5x downscale mode (https://consolemods.org/wiki/AV:RetroTI ... ownscaling)

Or, 480p output mode and set the Morph's vertical prescale to /2 (Main Menu->Video->Scaler->Vert. Prescale = /2)