PixelFX Morph

[Lopenator]

pfx has a history of supporting their products as well.

[Sargon]

I have no doubt that the Tink4K will be an amazing product with outstanding support.

If anything, I think the gap between the Tink and the Morph may be wider at release and then narrow as the Morph software matures.

Theres no evidence to support that thought though, while we know from past experience that Mike has provided stellar support and updates on the 5X, and has progressively built on that knowledge, which logically should continue with the 4K. We have zero reason to believe the Morph will close the gap on their very first rodeo while Mike continues to improve. If Mike was to do nothing, yeah-- but we all know Mike is not going to "do nothing".

Will the Tink continue to improve over time? Definitely. Will the Morph ever "catch up" to the Tink and have complete feature parity? Almost certainly not. The thing is, not all features are created equal. For the core features that a majority of users are interested in, I won't be surprised if the Morph is eventually able to produce results that resemble the Tink. This is all speculation of course, but I just don't think it is fair to make declarations about the Tink "aging better" than the Morph, because there is no reason to think that PixelFx won't be supporting and updating their product as well.

[768peeistrash]

I have no doubt that the Tink4K will be an amazing product with outstanding support.

If anything, I think the gap between the Tink and the Morph may be wider at release and then narrow as the Morph software matures.

Theres no evidence to support that thought though, while we know from past experience that Mike has provided stellar support and updates on the 5X, and has progressively built on that knowledge, which logically should continue with the 4K. We have zero reason to believe the Morph will close the gap on their very first rodeo while Mike continues to improve. If Mike was to do nothing, yeah-- but we all know Mike is not going to "do nothing".

Will the Tink continue to improve over time? Definitely. Will the Morph ever "catch up" to the Tink and have complete feature parity? Almost certainly not. The thing is, not all features are created equal. For the core features that a majority of users are interested in, I won't be surprised if the Morph is eventually able to produce results that resemble the Tink. This is all speculation of course, but I just don't think it is fair to make declarations about the Tink "aging better" than the Morph, because there is no reason to think that PixelFx won't be supporting and updating their product as well.

I think 'support' and 'doing crazy things' are entirely different categories still.

no one is thinking they're going to totally abandon their products, but fundamentally the GEM is still same UX as DCDigital V1 all these years later, IMO. Which is weird to see moved over to a scaler too. but from 5x to 4k not only has it got more bells and whistles for IQ and tweaking but seems a fundamentally different UX as well- coupled with SD card for profiles / fw updates / accessory attach-ability with SCART secure plugs and the top thing for optional cooling or decor. 5x itself has evolved from 1.0 fw and what it was when it shipped. its in a different league I would argue.

[spmbx]

Someone should merge all these scaler threads in one, since they all seem to devolve into the same "scaler x vs y vs z" discussion anyway.

[BuckoA51]

Will the Morph ever "catch up" to the Tink and have complete feature parity? Almost certainly not.

Other than rotation I don't see a lot in Tink 4k that isn't already in Morph or in development for Morph. Don't get me wrong though with greatest respect to the team this is still a beta product and obviously the Tink4k is mature and well tested at this point. I think waiting until the new year to release Morph is wise rather than rushing it out the door.

Maybe it will catch up maybe it won't, but Tin4k's lack of e.g expansion port, wifi and USB aren't things you're going to be able to patch in with software updates (well ok maybe Wifi to some limited extent), so if those are appealing to you then maybe stick around and see how it goes over the next few months.

[ZellSF]

Someone should merge all these scaler threads in one, since they all seem to devolve into the same "scaler x vs y vs z" discussion anyway.

That will probably change once people start getting these devices.

[tongshadow]

Someone should merge all these scaler threads in one, since they all seem to devolve into the same "scaler x vs y vs z" discussion anyway.

Better to keep them as separated containment threads.

[Dr. Claw]

Someone should merge all these scaler threads in one, since they all seem to devolve into the same "scaler x vs y vs z" discussion anyway.

That will probably change once people start getting these devices.

This is correct. Next year when these devices are in people's hands, most of the posts will actually be about the Morph and related devices.

(I'm still waiting to see what the Infinity Switch will do. More community alternatives to the "Big Dogs" (the g-switches) will be needed. PixelFX seems to be angling for an "ecosystem" model which is actually kind of interesting)

[TooBeaucoup]

I just want to be clear that when I said the Tink4K would age better, I wasn't suggesting the Morph wouldn't be getting updates. I was simply saying that looking at history, Mike has offered far more updates and added features over any of the Pixel products and there's no reason to think that would change in the future.

That was never to suggest the Morph wouldn't be good. I'm sure it will be a great option for many.

[BuckoA51]

I just want to be clear that when I said the Tink4K would age better, I wasn't suggesting the Morph wouldn't be getting updates. I was simply saying that looking at history, Mike has offered far more updates and added features over any of the Pixel products and there's no reason to think that would change in the future.

While it's not exactly an apples to apples comparison their HDMI mods got loads of updates and are still getting them. What features were in e.g RetroTINK 5x that never made it to their HDMI mods/GEM boards?

[Guspaz]

Interpolated scaling, I assume? All of PixelFX's official PS2 screenshots have uneven (non-integer) nearest-neighbour pixel scaling (the shimmer issue), even the XBR smooth ones, so I assume it's not supported. If they do support some sort of interpolated scaling (bilinear sharp, polyphase, or even just regular bilinear), they should update the PS2 screenshots on their website.

[TooBeaucoup]

I just want to be clear that when I said the Tink4K would age better, I wasn't suggesting the Morph wouldn't be getting updates. I was simply saying that looking at history, Mike has offered far more updates and added features over any of the Pixel products and there's no reason to think that would change in the future.

While it's not exactly an apples to apples comparison their HDMI mods got loads of updates and are still getting them. What features were in e.g RetroTINK 5x that never made it to their HDMI mods/GEM boards?

It's not apples to apples, so I suppose that's a bit of a problem. I was more talking about how much Mike expanded the 5x. It launched with a fairly robust menu and feature set, but since then, my God, he has added so much extra functionality, tweaks and additional options, it's rather mind-boggling.

[BuckoA51]

Interpolated scaling, I assume? All of PixelFX's official PS2 screenshots have uneven (non-integer) nearest-neighbour pixel scaling (the shimmer issue), even the XBR smooth ones, so I assume it's not supported. If they do support some sort of interpolated scaling (bilinear sharp, polyphase, or even just regular bilinear), they should update the PS2 screenshots on their website.

Already in there works same as on Morph.

It's not apples to apples, so I suppose that's a bit of a problem. I was more talking about how much Mike expanded the 5x. It launched with a fairly robust menu and feature set, but since then, my
God, he has added so much extra functionality, tweaks and additional options, it's rather mind-boggling.

Nobody's really debating that, but PixelFX have added loads of new functionality to their products too.

[tongshadow]

But do they have a clown emoji printed on the board?
...
Thought so.

[kitty666cats]

I thought this thing sounded great from day one, only to be let down by a few things (only an HDMI input on initial release?! What the HELL are you smoking - and whatever it is, I don’t want any!).

Another thing that is drawing concern is something initially mentioned on the Roadmap, which there seems to have been radio silence about ever since. To quote a post from a Laserdisc forum:

“oday I found out that the PixelFX gang are looking to add some video-centric features to their upcoming Morph scaler. It’s primarily targeting video games, but at Morph roadmap they claim this:

Film Mode (VCR/LD/DVD)
Full frame Time-Base Correction.
3D Comb Filter.
Cadence detection.
Along with support for CVBS/S-video and Motion adaptive de-interlacing it’s looking interesting so far.

They don’t mention which audio inputs they’re having, but here’s hoping for both analog and SPDIF.”

…depending on how deep they go (or WERE going) with that feature, it could massively throw a fork into the likes of the DigitalFAQ forum, where the head honcho essentially claims there are only two Time Base Correctors worth their salt… and proceeds to hoard them and sell them at a massive markup. Also inflates the secondhand market to an insane degree. If analog output gets implemented (particularly in standard def passthrough mode), it could be a game changer for analog video preservationists!

I still think this scaler sounds totally awesome and I wish the best for it! That being said, the analog inputs better come along QUICK after release, and if the video archivist crowd is going to be satisfied it’ll almost certainly need to have some composite and Svid inputs. Obviously, those features are an afterthought - this thing is for video games! Here’s to analog input coming along as SPEEDINGLY fast as possible and not costing an offensive amount more than the base unit. Analog outputs of composite and Svid capable of passing through input resolution at 4:2:2, despite sounding totally laughable for a game scaler, would also make that preservation crowd ecstatic.

[ZellSF]

I don't think it's fair to accuse that guy of hoarding them, there simply weren't that many made. He's definitely guilty of shouting down anyone looking for alternatives though.

I also think a decent enough recording can be made with a DVD recorder. LD/VHS preservation is a prime example of letting perfect be the enemy of good. How many people have looked into doing that and ended up not bothering when told they need complicated skills (ld-decode/vhs-decode) or a ton of money (TBCs, high-end players).

It would still be nice if the Morph got those features, I'm just saying don't let lacking that stop you from archiving your analog media while it's still readable.

[BuckoA51]

(only an HDMI input on initial release?! What the HELL are you smoking - and whatever it is, I don’t want any!

They're thinking to be the most competitive on price basically. There are a lot of people who simply do not need analogue any more. One of my friends for instance has simply replaced all his consoles except Dreamcast and Xbox with Mister, and Dreamcast and Xbox are HDMI modded.

The video centric features are still planned but I think it's basically crunch time in the run up to the launch now, so I wouldn't expect to see those for a little while. They need to get what they have polished up so we can launch this thing.

Doesn't RT4k have time base correction for VHS etc? If not I imagine it could be added.

[ZellSF]

The RetroTink4K does not have TBC or a 3D comb filter.

The 5X has some sort of TBC functionality though.

[BuckoA51]

TBC - Right, imagine it's only a matter of time before it gets added though.

3D Comb filter - It must have a pretty good comb filter though right? People seem pretty happy with its composite processing?

[Extrems]

I'm always busting Mike's balls about having a 3D comb filter, so no, it's not good.

[ZellSF]

The Retrotink5X is one of the better 2D comb filters I have (I haven't tested the 4K, it has more tweakable options), but it's still a 2D comb filter.

[SavagePencil]

I'm always busting Mike's balls about having a 3D comb filter, so no, it's not good.

When he’s not shitting the bed, the poor guy’s having his balls busted. Can’t get a break!

[Guspaz]

One of the problems with implementing a TBC (for any modern scaler) is that nobody can agree on what a TBC is. Everybody gives a different definition of what they're supposed to do. It seems like 100% of TBCs have somebody arguing that that specific one isn't a "real" TBC, but they also can't tell you what a "real" TBC is.

3D comb filters aren't easy to implement since analog video noise throws a wrench in the works. But everybody is working on it, and I'm sure Extrems will convince everybody to get it done eventually.

[Konsolkongen]

The Morph has now been released. Anyone got one?

[Gara]

What's going on with PixelFX? Their Twitter and PR person hasn't updated anything since November and now this little blurb saying it's shipping. Heck, the Black Friday ad is still pinned. I haven't seen any reviews and no one is really talking about it. I know there is some rivalry stuff going on, but it feels like PixelFX isn't even trying to promote the Morph. The OSSC Pro firmware updates get more press than this.

[BuckoA51]

Yeah it kinda slipped behind schedule so it was all hands on deck for testing and polishing the launch firmware. One or two of my customers already have theirs. Units in the first batch are going out to reviewers too, so there should be some more reviews etc very soon for folks on the fence about it.

[tongshadow]

A somewhat quiet launch indeed, but after using the PixelFX GEM I started to appreciate their products more. The team was also very receptive towards feedback on Discord and implemented fixes rather quickly.

It remains the cheapest 4k video scaler, so it's a very interesting proposition for those who dont need everything the TINK4K has to offer. I also like the fact it works well with the original OSSC's passthrough mode.

[XtraSmiley]

Does it offer a rotate feature?

[EnragedWhale]

Does it offer a rotate feature?

Not currently and not in the roadmap, but on the wish list according to the PixelFX discord.

[XtraSmiley]

Does it offer a rotate feature?

Not currently and not in the roadmap, but on the wish list according to the PixelFX discord.

Thanks for the info.

I have no idea why anyone would waste $400-500 on this when there are better options at the same price and a much better option at $750.