Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cresta

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jehu
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by jehu »

Skykid wrote:This kind of ties in to a statement of pure conjecture I made in the review, which seems to be becoming quickly contentious, in that elements of Cresta’s technical and aesthetic deficiencies do make one wonder if Platinum were attempting a cash grab to get a piece of what is clearly the most renewed interest the genre has seen since the XBOX 360.
I was referring to this, but didn't mean to misrepresent your case by calling it a 'scam' if that isn't what you had in mind.

I'm really quite sure it was a passion project. Again, it's not a project born out of practicality and profitability. And the entire rollout was defined by a sense of levity and play - from the 'April Fools 2020' reveal to the 'Very Sorry' Kamiya stream to the game's playful, lightly parodic evocation of late 80s/early 90s arcade and anime tropes. And you could just hear it in the pre-release streams, especially in the exchange where Yoko Taro expressed his jealousy that his colleague got to work on a shooter. (If any lurkers have startup capital lying around, please reach out to that man.)

The game continues to grow on me. It's not getting into my top 25 or anything, but I have really been enjoying myself as I've been figuring out the mechanics and stage layouts. The over-designed mechanics leave a lot of headroom for skill growth - and every once and awhile I pull something off that hints at what might be possible if I were a more proficient player.
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by Skykid »

To clarify then, Moon and Terra Cresta were decent games for their time. Bit of Nichibitsu janky charm about them, and some will have fond memories of Terra. But let’s face it, it’s not a series the general public (or even the shmup-playing public) were clamouring for a sequel to. Cresta isn’t Gradius.

Passion projects don’t usually start as April Fool’s jokes, either. So the conjecture wasn’t a “scam” at all, more Platinum’s realisation that people are spinning coin from shmups at the moment, and shmups are low-cost productions. Let’s then convert the surprisingly successful response to this joke into a financially successful reality with minimal budget and maximum hype. The result is a decent and unique system with a superb soundtrack but a horribly underfed visual experience and a throng of technical problems.

And, that’s just a take. I couldn’t claim to pretend it’s accurate because I don’t know.

Either way, I got some enjoyment out of it and I’m glad you’re enjoying it too!
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by m.sniffles.esq »

make one wonder if Platinum were attempting a cash grab to get a piece of what is clearly the most renewed interest the genre has seen since the XBOX 360.

Uh, the price tag should answer that question for you.
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by harborline765 »

Image
What would happen if PlatinumGames, developers of satisfying and jam-packed action games like Bayonetta, tried their hand at shooting? This is the answer. The visuals are classic, but the originality and depth of the systems and gameplay provide a fresh and deep shooting experience that grows each time you play.
Also worth noting that when the game was announced 11 months ago it was announced alongside a "NEO-CLASSIC ARCADE" series of games that Platinum plans to (presumably) release in steady output. I guess a bit like how we see an M2 Shot Triggers release rock up once a year or so.

It's really cool that it exists to begin with but anything Platinum releases is going to come with higher-than-average levels of expectation behind it, regardless of whether the ugly image quality was intentional or not. And even if it was intentional it's off the mark at actually recreating what mid 80s visuals looked like on a CRT anyway. That can't be disputed.
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by Skykid »

m.sniffles.esq wrote:make one wonder if Platinum were attempting a cash grab to get a piece of what is clearly the most renewed interest the genre has seen since the XBOX 360.

Uh, the price tag should answer that question for you.
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by m.sniffles.esq »

Okay, I think I've spent enough time with this to issue a verdict:

-- Totally good $20-$25 game.
(I know people complained about the same price tag on Cotton Reboot, but at least that looks, sounds, feels like a $40 game. This just doesn't. Everything about it screams 'modest goals,' yet they charge an extraordinary price.)

-- It would be much better without the stacking/shuffling/docking/whatever gimmick. Or just handled very differently.
(Sure, I fumble much less than I initially did. But it still feels awkward, unintuitive, weird, and just not fun. Whenever there's upcoming enemies that my current set-up is bad at handling, I feel dread at the thought of shuffling things around. Whereas, I should be wanting to shuffle those fuckers constantly. It's the game's whole gimmick! I should want to switch to the most efficient method of dealing with every wave that comes at me. But instead it's "Do I have to? The missiles suck on those guys but they do die eventually... Oh, fuck it. I'll switch to my lasers... Hope I don't fuck this up..."

When I'm deploying your game's whole gimmick in a manner I would describe as 'begrudgingly', something ain't right.

But untimely, it's like stumbling upon some kind of generic, kind of flawed, but completely enjoyable arcade game from 1988 that somehow got lost until now. Hamster would put it out for $8, and we'd talk about how fun it was (in a low-stakes, eight dollar hamster port sort of way), and how the shit had we never heard of it before?
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by PC Engine Fan X! »

To get around the darker-than-usual scanline filter used in-game with the Switch port of Sol Cresta, I had to resort to using an external Scan Line Generator with HDMI coming from the Switch dock and fed into a HDMI to VGA convertor and fed through the SLG and piped into a 24" LCD PC monitor tate'd setup. With this specific setup, Sol Cresta looks much better with the obligatory added in "old-school" scanline effect/vibe going on. YMMV though. Sometimes, it's better in going this route to add scanlines with real hardware with certain Switch STG titles (that don't have a scanline filter option from the get-go) makes it totally worth it in the end. It's "thinking outside the box" that does the trick with Sol Cresta's well-known problematic scanline issue in this particular instance.

Of course, this is just a temporary work-around solution/fix until the developer releases a patch to fix the scanline issue at hand.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~
Last edited by PC Engine Fan X! on Thu Feb 24, 2022 7:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by xxx1993 »

Should I really stay away from the Switch port? I'll just get it on PS4 if that's the case.
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by BloodHawk »

jehu wrote:I have really been enjoying myself as I've been figuring out the mechanics and stage layouts. The over-designed mechanics leave a lot of headroom for skill growth - and every once and awhile I pull something off that hints at what might be possible if I were a more proficient player.
After playing this more myself I feel the same way.

I haven't had much experience with the previous entries in the series, but like many others my first impressions were mixed as if you were to play this like a typical STG "survival run" and not utilize the resources the game gives you the first few stages feel very bland. The later stages offer more variety and environmental hazards to maneuver around, but still nothing to really "woo" you over, especially given the aesthetics that everyone has already mentioned.

I have since done a few more full playthroughs, but mostly concentrated on Caravan Mode in order to focus on learning the "intended" way of playing this game around a single stage (currently 1st on the Steam leaderboards with 500K for now). After several Caravan runs I realized that what I previously thought to be an intentional "slow and spread out stage to ease people into it" wasn't so. After the first 30 or 45 seconds, the design and placement of everything in the stage is VERY deliberate and there is a small puzzle element to maximizing scores with the different formations. It's enough for you to think but it's not so stringent that it ties you down to a single intended route/formation combo.

I suck at explaining things, but I will try:

Recap of the Basics for those who haven't play this yet: Killing enemies with a formation attack earns you more points and also more coins to fill up the "Sol Gauge", but activation of these formations is tied to another meter like a fighting game, named the "SP Gauge". This gauge fills up as you damage enemies. Also, there is a time limit to how long you can stay in each formation as well, and a cool-down timer that goes down to 0 when you exit the formation and then slowly increases when you are not, so even if you have the meter you can't run back-to-back formations forever.

So the main way to increase score is to utilize those formations as best you can. Here is what has worked for me:

The tight groups of popcorn enemies (like the Galaga looking bugs for example) are usually good targets for the formation shots and they are usually grouped in ways that it's pretty obvious formations shots would work great. Since the formation shots are so OP it really doesn't matter which one you choose. You won't have the meter to do this to all of the popcorn so you need to decide where to hold back, and there are somethings intentionally laid out in the stages to help you determine this.

There are multiple cyan orbs placed in every stage, if you destroy these using a formation shot you get 10,000 points and partial refill of your SP Gauge. These are great markers that help identify "when" to activate the formations. For the fist stage, try to time your formations so that you can destroy those orbs as your formation is ending. If you do it right, you will be killing a lot of enemies (HINT: a lot of popcorn is positioned prior to these orbs) and then getting your meter back along with the 10,000 points when you destroy the orb. Throughout each stage you should still have enough meter to activate a couple more formations outside of aligning with these orbs.

That's the core game plan in scoring higher, but in order to do that you have to:

1) Collect the right formation chips that are dropped by crates and some enemies.
2) Determine the best spots to activate formations
3) Manage your meter (regular charge shots use 1/3 of a bar but are very helpful)
4) Manage your formation timer.
5) Manage the order of which your 3 ships are docked (formations sometimes change the order when you re-dock, depending on how you position them when activated)
6) Collect the coins dropped by enemies

Then there are some smaller things that don't mean as much, such as command shots (the fighting game inputs) and going through colored hoops where your lead ship (or a single ship while in formation) needs to match for some bonus points.

In the end, on top of the standard STG gameplay elements you are having to constantly think about all of those things while applying inputs for formations and command shots where needed.

Understandably, a lot of people aren't going to like it. Although I don't believe this is one of the greatest STG's of all time, I think I see where they were going with it. For me, the gameplay design adds some fun and immersion while erasing a lot of the initial hesitance I had.

Edit: Made some corrections regarding the formation timer.
Last edited by BloodHawk on Fri Feb 25, 2022 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by banjoted »

BloodHawk wrote:
jehu wrote:I have really been enjoying myself as I've been figuring out the mechanics and stage layouts. The over-designed mechanics leave a lot of headroom for skill growth - and every once and awhile I pull something off that hints at what might be possible if I were a more proficient player.
After playing this more myself I feel the same way.

I haven't had much experience with the previous entries in the series, but like many others my first impressions were mixed as if you were to play this like a typical STG "survival run" and not utilize the resources the game gives you the first few stages feel very bland. The later stages offer more variety and environmental hazards to maneuver around, but still nothing to really "woo" you over, especially given the aesthetics that everyone has already mentioned.

I have since done a few more full playthroughs, but mostly concentrated on Caravan Mode in order to focus on learning the "intended" way of playing this game around a single stage (currently 1st on the Steam leaderboards with 500K for now). After several Caravan runs I realized that what I previously thought to be an intentional "slow and spread out stage to ease people into it" wasn't so. After the first 30 or 45 seconds, the design and placement of everything in the stage is VERY deliberate and there is a small puzzle element to maximizing scores with the different formations. It's enough for you to think but it's not so stringent that it ties you down to a single intended route/formation combo.

I suck at explaining things, but I will try:

Recap of the Basics for those who haven't play this yet: Killing enemies with a formation attack earns you more points and also more coins to fill up the "Sol Gauge", but activation of these formations is tied to another meter like a fighting game, named the "SP Gauge". This gauge fills up as you damage enemies. Also, there is a running timer to how long you can stay in formation as well. This timer goes down the longer you stay in formation and then slowly increases when you are not, so even if you have the meter you can't run back-to-back formations forever (you can always end the formation early to save this timer).

So the main way to increase score is to utilize those formations as best you can. Here is what has worked for me:

The tight groups of popcorn enemies (like the Galaga looking bugs for example) are usually good targets for the formation shots and they are usually grouped in ways that it's pretty obvious formations shots would work great. Since the formation shots are so OP it really doesn't matter which one you choose. You won't have the meter to do this to all of the popcorn so you need to decide where to hold back, and there are somethings intentionally laid out in the stages to help you determine this.

There are multiple cyan orbs placed in every stage, if you destroy these using a formation shot you get 10,000 points and partial refill of your SP Gauge. These are great markers that help identify "when" to activate the formations. For the fist stage, try to time your formations so that you can destroy those orbs as your formation is ending. If you do it right, you will be killing a lot of enemies (HINT: a lot of popcorn is positioned prior to these orbs) and then getting your meter back along with the 10,000 points when you destroy the orb. Throughout each stage you should still have enough meter to activate a couple more formations outside of aligning with these orbs.

That's the core game plan in scoring higher, but in order to do that you have to:

1) Collect the right formation chips that are dropped by crates and some enemies.
2) Determine the best spots to activate formations
3) Manage your meter (regular charge shots use 1/3 of a bar but are very helpful)
4) Manage your formation timer (should you end the formation early?)
5) Manage the order of which your 3 ships are docked (formations sometimes change the order when you re-dock, depending on how you position them when activated)
6) Collect the coins dropped by enemies

Then there are some smaller things that don't mean as much, such as command shots (the fighting game inputs) and going through colored hoops where your lead ship (or a single ship while in formation) needs to match for some bonus points.

In the end, on top of the standard STG gameplay elements you are having to constantly think about all of those things while applying inputs for formations and command shots where needed.

Understandably, a lot of people aren't going to like it. Although I don't believe this is one of the greatest STG's of all time, I think I see where they were going with it. For me, the gameplay design adds some fun and immersion while erasing a lot of the initial hesitance I had.
Amazing rundown, thanks.

The discourse about this game is quite strange. I've seen a lot of people who dare to speak about it in anything like positive terms caveating their statements with things like "I don't believe this is one of the greatest STG's of all time, but...". I wonder where this strength of feeling comes from. Is it really just the price?
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by BloodHawk »

banjoted wrote:Amazing rundown, thanks.

The discourse about this game is quite strange. I've seen a lot of people who dare to speak about it in anything like positive terms caveating their statements with things like "I don't believe this is one of the greatest STG's of all time, but...". I wonder where this strength of feeling comes from. Is it really just the price?
The discourse is strange indeed. For me the price isn't much of an issue, but I questioned putting that caveat in when typing it out. Honestly, I know that my experience and knowledge of the genre as a whole is limited when compared to most of the forum here. Taking that into consideration along with the game only releasing a couple days ago is what lead me to keep it in there.

I have about 10 hours in so far and the more I play it the more fun I have. I think it's due to the numerous tools that they give you to work with. Usually, after about 10 hours into an STG where the learning curve starts to transition into more raw memorization I start to lose interest. If my positive experiences continue after playing this more I would definitely give it additional praise.
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by MachineAres 1CC »

It's pretty sad, yet expected that the general gaming mainstream discourse is exactly as I imagined. Essentially, because it's by Platinum Games, weebs and fans of Nier Automata are quick to lick their asshole no matter what they release and bump up review scores for fear of Kamiya blocking them on twitter and senpai not noticing them.

The screenshots are exceptionally awful, as is the price, so I'm definitely waiting on this one for a little while.
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by banjoted »

MachineAres 1CC wrote:It's pretty sad, yet expected that the general gaming mainstream discourse is exactly as I imagined. Essentially, because it's by Platinum Games, weebs and fans of Nier Automata are quick to lick their asshole no matter what they release and bump up review scores for fear of Kamiya blocking them on twitter and senpai not noticing them.

The screenshots are exceptionally awful, as is the price, so I'm definitely waiting on this one for a little while.
Having previously worked in games journalism for over a decade, I gotta say that I struggle to imagine anyone bumping Platinum scores for fear of invoking Kamiya's trigger happy blocking finger. If anything, getting blocked by him is a source of amusement and/or pride. It means you're in the club! I do just think that the Platinum name simply means the game has more eyes on it than it otherwise would have.
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by Skykid »

banjoted wrote: Having previously worked in games journalism for over a decade, I gotta say that I struggle to imagine anyone bumping Platinum scores for fear of invoking Kamiya's trigger happy blocking finger.
The possibility of pissing off Kamiya didn't affect my write-up whatsoever. And I'd do it again. My obligation is to the paying public, not the corporation.

That said, I do acknowledge that there's a strange undercurrent regarding coverage of this one too. I've noticed it. I only have two comments regarding this:

- The graphics are atrocious. The most recent commenter on my review - one who just purchased the game - wrote all about how shocked he was. You rarely see this mentioned in any depth in any reviews. In some cases, the graphical issues in most reviews seem to go completely unmentioned, which is very strange as it's such a prominent issue.

- A lot of the people reviewing the game aren't genre aficiandos, from what I can tell. Since it's such a heavily complex affair, stuffed with novelty mechanics and requiring you to really (really) play for an extended period to even hope to know WTF is going on or what you're meant to do, it seemed strange that none of these people seemed to acknowledge any kind of struggle to get comfortable with the game.

And that's it. For me, those two elements seem critical and I'd have expected them to be raised prominently in anyone's coverage, but most of everything is clean praise.
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by MachineAres 1CC »

banjoted wrote:
MachineAres 1CC wrote:It's pretty sad, yet expected that the general gaming mainstream discourse is exactly as I imagined. Essentially, because it's by Platinum Games, weebs and fans of Nier Automata are quick to lick their asshole no matter what they release and bump up review scores for fear of Kamiya blocking them on twitter and senpai not noticing them.

The screenshots are exceptionally awful, as is the price, so I'm definitely waiting on this one for a little while.
Having previously worked in games journalism for over a decade, I gotta say that I struggle to imagine anyone bumping Platinum scores for fear of invoking Kamiya's trigger happy blocking finger. If anything, getting blocked by him is a source of amusement and/or pride. It means you're in the club! I do just think that the Platinum name simply means the game has more eyes on it than it otherwise would have.
This was just a joke :D

I love a lot of Platinum's games (there's also several shit ones) but they seem to have way too much worship/good will when it comes to the mainstream (especially weeb) gaming public, and a lot of people seem to think you're in the cool kids club if you just wholeheartedly praise their output.

I work in games journalism as well and I've had to give some rough scores to games from some of my favorite creators when they're just not up to snuff, but I know that's generally not the case for a good amount of other writers in this industry/field. Unfortunately some of my own peers at sites I've worked for were clear examples of having pretty flaky and generally misinformed/biased takes on things just because of who made the game, and you can be a fan all you like, but when you take on the job of being a critic/commentator, I think you need to bring a little more integrity to the table.

Skykid's review seems to have done a decent job at being honest, even if a 7 feels a little too high for the words that accompany the score, but that's totally his call and I respect that. Choosing a number can often take the better part of a few hours after writing the text of a review just to decide what it should get, and also every site should generally have a fairly clear outline or guide for their review scores, with a general summary of what each major number on the scale means, but I know some sites don't take the time to do that
Last edited by MachineAres 1CC on Fri Feb 25, 2022 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by To Far Away Times »

I've seen surprisingly slightly positive discorse about this game. This looked like this was shaping up to be 2022's Shita Mora. The screen shots look like ass, and its a sequel to game nobody cares about. I'm somewhat surprised. Maybe when its $10...
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

MachineAres 1CC wrote:Skykid's review seems to have done a decent job at being honest, even if a 7 feels a little too high for the words that accompany the score, but that's totally his call and I respect that.
I kinda get that. I've spent tons of time with Bayonetta (easily 1000 hours) and as much as I love the game, I'd say it's a solid 7 or 8 out of 10. It's got a TON of janky elements that I could write an essay about them, but the positive elements outshine the negatives enough that it's nevertheless a very good experience. When it's at its best, it feels like a 10/10 experience, but you gotta know how to work around the jank and invest the time to get there.

I think it's important to be able to discuss in detail flawed elements of games we love. It's okay to love flawed games as long as you're not blinded by fanboyism. I can totally see giving a 7/10 to a game that has a lot of individual negative elements but that's still fun enough as a whole to enjoy.
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by EmperorIng »

I've only managed to play once, and am having a hard time understanding how docking works - apparently whatever ship's nose is in front, that's the 'main' ship of the formation? Can anyone elucidate?

As well, juggling around to get the formations is tricky, at least on my hour-ish test. I couldn't ever seem to get the laser formations pointing upwards as opposed to downwards. It's quite confusing and very awkward. It's not immediately apparent what all the gauges do and that you need to fill them to pull off some of the formations, moves, etc.

That being said I didn't notice any performance issues on PC, and admittedly while the game's visuals aren't great, static screenshots make them look way worse than they are in motion. This isn't some putridly ugly game like Skull Fang.

I only played the first 3 stages (game over'd purposefully on stage 3 boss because it was 2am and I needed to sleep), but it has a sort of cute charm to it.
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by MachineAres 1CC »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote:I think it's important to be able to discuss in detail flawed elements of games we love. It's okay to love flawed games as long as you're not blinded by fanboyism.
This is exactly what I was saying with the last post there, but it's a fine line nowadays that most people seem to have a hard time distinguishing, when we're constantly bombarded with information and marketing about games at a faster speed than ever with social media and the internet in general, and companies/corporations essentially conditioning their fans into PR mouthpieces who think the company is their friend.
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by m.sniffles.esq »

am having a hard time understanding how docking works - apparently whatever ship's nose is in front, that's the 'main' ship of the formation? Can anyone elucidate?

Go to --->Options---->Manual

There are three instruction cards that explain docking, formations, street fighter attacks, gauges, etc.
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by jehu »

BloodHawk's tip about focusing and the scoring modes for awhile is a great one. I managed to take a high spot in the Caravan leaderboards this morning by tightening up my stage one. It's actually quite interesting how they tuned stage one to make it completable in the five minutes - more sentience in the design than I could initially see. If I manage top 10 or 15 scores in Score Attack for each stage, I'll probably move back to Arcade. For now, though, this is fun. EDIT: I just looked at the 'Score Attack' leaderboards to see how I was doing, and never mind what I said about top 10 or 15 - ANY score is a top 10 or 15 at this point. Sad :cry:
banjoted wrote:The discourse about this game is quite strange. I've seen a lot of people who dare to speak about it in anything like positive terms caveating their statements with things like "I don't believe this is one of the greatest STG's of all time, but...". I wonder where this strength of feeling comes from. Is it really just the price?
I guess this is partially about one of my comments, so I'll happily explain. For me, it's not really about the price. I play STGs almost exclusively these days, and so plunking down the money for a feature-rich STG now and again is something I'm happy to do. And I can already tell I'm going to get my money's worth.

But the majority of my favorite STGs these days are very simple, and very tight. Sol Cresta is mechanically complex, and a little loose in some areas. If you're going to get a good score, you've got to work, work, work - it's a lot different than the primitive (in a good way) move-n'-shoots that tend to lock me in the flow state that makes playing these games a true pleasure. And, at least so far, the formations work well, but can cause frustration due to a lack of a kind of snappiness you might want. And with the 'shield' system, you can be taking a real beating and still clear levels - normally I prefer the simplicity of the one-hit-kill. But anyway, these are gripes and should be read in the context of my other posts where I highlight the elements I really enjoy. I'm still having a great time with it.
EmperorIng wrote:I've only managed to play once, and am having a hard time understanding how docking works - apparently whatever ship's nose is in front, that's the 'main' ship of the formation? Can anyone elucidate?
Okay, so the ship in front determines the 'main shot,' the ship in the middle determines 'charge shot' - and, less sure about this, but the ship at the end seems to shoot a 'secondary' shot with pretty lengthy space between shots. The order of the docked ships is determined by their relative vertical position. One thing to look out for is: if you hold in the docking button, you can put yourself into a formation (for a formation attack - but if you hold the docking button in with the goal of reordering your ships, it won't work. To reorder your ships, you tap the docking button once, then change the position of your ships, then press the button again. Hope this is what you're looking for (and congrats on your Kiki Kaikai score - looked sick).
To Far Away Times wrote:I've seen surprisingly slightly positive discorse about this game. This looked like this was shaping up to be 2022's Shita Mora. The screen shots look like ass, and its a sequel to game nobody cares about. I'm somewhat surprised. Maybe when its $10...
No shame picking it up on the inevitable sale, but yes - it's much better than Sine Mora thank the lord and savior. Not that I have a great read on your tastes, but I think you might like it.
MachineAres 1CC wrote:This was just a joke :D
Haha, I'm glad you said this - I thought you were really getting mad at an imaginary Platinum-loving weeb homunculus as the scapegoat for all the flaws of the gaming journo-sphere. I imagine it's hard to write a review for a game like this, especially with a hard deadline. If the game is a grower not a shower (if it takes time for the game's mechanics to really stand out), can you be expected to accurately judge its quality in only a few days or a week? There's a Jay Z quote somewhere about music journalists stuck in the same dilemma, and I believe the same can be said for a lot of game reviews.
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Skykid
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by Skykid »

MachineAres 1CC wrote: Skykid's review seems to have done a decent job at being honest, even if a 7 feels a little too high for the words that accompany the score
Man, I got this a lot on this one. When I read it back it still reads like a 7 to me!

I honestly played Sol Cresta enough to understand what's good about it, but I really don't want to be the dick reviewer when someone fires it up and is like "What the fuck is up with the graphics/framerate/sprite layer bugs/input lag, and nobody thought to mention it?!"

Also, 1200 words is a sweet spot, but sometimes it's difficult within that limit to scale positive and negatives in a way that perfectly meets someone's arbitrary idea of a 7. I does me best!
Always outnumbered, never outgunned - No zuo no die

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DJ Incompetent
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by DJ Incompetent »

The ship mechanic scoring is bonkers and neat and new to me and worth the price to play. I don't believe I've played a STG before where wacky ship-mechanic-scoring is the only standout feature and everything else about the construction of this videogame is lacking and bad. I think it is a new thing and players are struggling on how to articulate it.

G Darius has fighting game inputs. Them capture ball fish-captains have special moves.
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jehu
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by jehu »

lol I got the invincibility glitch - it's a trip.

Inadvertently think I discovered something, though can't totally confirm. When you've got the invincibility glitch, you have no hitbox - you can't collect anything. This makes the power-ups freak out and the formation pickups just kind of stay magnetized to you. I had a formation power-up that was just getting in the way of my shots, and I shot it and shot it and shot it... And eventually it turned into another kind of pickup. An anime girl head with purple hair and glowing red eyes.

Without the hitbox, I couldn't pick it up to test what it does. But have at it everyone, you've got to shoot it for a long time... I'll tune back in if I figure out what it does.

Edit: Okay, well that took all of 30 seconds. It's how you 'Discover Pt' if you're trying to get that achievement.
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by Sima Tuna »

I just saw Mark post a video showing the input delay on switch. I believe it's 7 frames in tate and 9 in yoko.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJVGLbyNPJM

I don't know how they even made that mistake. I know the instant response will be "lol switch," but keep in mind that the switch itself only adds a single frame of input delay on most games. So Sol Cresta should still have around 6 frames of delay in tate and 8 in yoko, assuming the delay is the same (after factoring out that additional frame) in other versions of the game.

Maybe we can get some input from other people doing frame testing of the other versions of the game? Would be interesting. The much-maligned ZeroDiv psikyo ports (which suck hard) were between 6 and 8 frames, even on Switch.
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by BloodHawk »

Sima Tuna wrote:I just saw Mark post a video showing the input delay on switch. I believe it's 7 frames in tate and 9 in yoko.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJVGLbyNPJM

I don't know how they even made that mistake. I know the instant response will be "lol switch," but keep in mind that the switch itself only adds a single frame of input delay on most games. So Sol Cresta should still have around 6 frames of delay in tate and 8 in yoko, assuming the delay is the same (after factoring out that additional frame) in other versions of the game.

Maybe we can get some input from other people doing frame testing of the other versions of the game? Would be interesting. The much-maligned ZeroDiv psikyo ports (which suck hard) were between 6 and 8 frames, even on Switch.
I haven't measured it on Steam yet, but when comparing the response of movements against other games that I have measured I can very confidently say that it's no more than 3 frames in yoko (using G-Sync).

That is very strange if the Switch version is that bad...

Now that I think about it, the Vasara Collection has a large performance gap between PC and Switch as well (definitely more than just a couple frames), and like Sol Cresta it was made with Unity. I wonder if that has anything to do with it...
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by ATTRACTS »

m.sniffles.esq wrote:am having a hard time understanding how docking works - apparently whatever ship's nose is in front, that's the 'main' ship of the formation? Can anyone elucidate?

Go to --->Options---->Manual

There are three instruction cards that explain docking, formations, street fighter attacks, gauges, etc.
LMFAO
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jehu
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by jehu »

FYI - There's three more unlockable ships you can get through finishing achievements.
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by BloodHawk »

I was previously contemplating setting things up to record the input lag on this game, but due to it not being a fast process and kind of a pain I was pushing it off for later. But after hearing about the performance on the Switch it motivated me more to measure the Steam version to see the difference:

Equipment
TV - LG TV 55SM9000PUA, which has been measured by rtings.com to have a 7.1ms response time at 1080p 120Hz - https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/sm9000
Mayflash F500 Stick (Firmware 1.26)
iPhone recording at 240fps

Settings
TV set to 1080p @ 120Hz
Using G-Sync
Low Latency Mode set to "On" in Nvidia Control Panel
Turned off Steam Controller Config within Steam App

Method
Recorded gameplay with the Arcade Stick in the foreground (less than 1 foot from camera and with the button level with the camera lens) and the TV approximately 2 feet behind it.
After visual confirmation of button press, counted the number of 240fps frames until ship showed indication of firing.
Averaged 25 samples and divided by 4 to reach 60fps average

Results
Here is a table showing the breakout of the number of occurrences by frame #:
R=Frame # 240 fps &# of Occurrences R=6 &1 R=7 &9 R=8 &6 R=9 &4 R=10 &5 R=Average &8.12 R=Avg 60Hz Frames &2.03


Summary
Based on my initial impressions when first playing the game the results aren't really a surprise, as my guess was in the 2-3 frame range when comparing the feel against on other games I previously tested (Darius Gaiden and Caladrius Blaze)
This does raise the question though of why is the performance on the Switch so much worse? My best guess is that it's something to do with Unity. Although I haven't measured it, I have the Vasara Collection (which also uses Unity) on both PC and Switch and the input lag between them is staggeringly different (feels way more than a frame or two). I am curious what other Switch STG's were built in Unity...

Other Notes
Something I noticed about Sol Cresta, and that is the trajectory of the shots do not come from the front of the ship, they start closer to the center than most other STG's.
Also, there is a difference in the time it takes for a shot to come out between formations. When you are just starting as a single red ship, the shots don't show until around 3 frames, whereas the 25 sample 2 frame average above was from using a 2-part ship with the Red in front and Blue in the back.
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Re: Platinum Games announces Sol Cresta, Sequel to Terra Cre

Post by Sima Tuna »

Great information! Thank you so much for doing that.

Unity games generally perform extremely poorly on Switch. I was not aware this game was using Unity. Yeah, that may be one of the culprits. Since it's a multiplat game, Platinum may also have not understood that One Does Not Simply Port to switch. Not if you care about delay. It seems to require a total reworking in some cases, because of the way the system talks to the various devices and something about switch architecture that adds that extra frame of lag in almost every game.

The successful (low-lag) ports to Switch have, by and large, come from companies who made or publish shmups and shmups almost exclusively. Often, the version on the Switch is not a multiplatform version, but built from the ground up. I'm thinking of the Live Wire ports of Cave games (all around 3-4 frames,) M2's Thunder Force Sega Ages and titles like Esprade from M2 ShotTriggers team. The multiplatform shmup ports (to other modern consoles) tend to have higher input lag on Switch. ACA I believe is 4-5 frames on Switch (about one frame laggier from ps4,) Zerodiv is 7, I remember hearing Gley Lancer was 6... Then there's the Cotton stuff on switch with 11 frames of input lag. :oops:

Platinum aren't a shmup developer. It may not have even occurred to them that unity would fuck up the Switch version or that they'd need to change the game to run specifically on switch. I dunno. But 2-3 frames of lag on PC vs 7-9 frames on Switch is a massive difference.
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