FUN and “EASY” 1CCs

[BareKnuckleRoo]

The next logical step might usually be going for (1) better score and/or (2) completing the game with less resources. Of course (1) entails (2) necessarily sometimes.


The specific answer to this kind of question can always vary (i) depending on the person and also because (ii) there could be lot of good choices. Nevertheless here are few suggestion (from survival viewpoint):
--- progear (get conditions for second loop)
--- dodonpachi (get conditions for second loop with survival)
--- dangun feveron (no-miss)
--- ketsui (get condition for second loop)
I haven't done last two myself but I think these are fairly logical steps (after 1CC) in the above games if you are not going for score (and actually, even if you are).

It's important to recognize that the difficulty of all these varies quite significantly compared to a 1CC (of the first loop if it's a 2 loop game). Unless you're really into a game to the extent where you want to play it and improve obsessively, it might be better to take a break and try something that's similar in difficulty or a bit harder, working your way up to more gradually difficult games, lest you potentially frustrate yourself.

For instance:

• Progear and Dodonpachi are both fairly easy to get into the second loop, relative to DaiOuJou, Daifukkatsu, or Ketsui. Progear has a bullet cancelling mechanic built into the game you can take advantage of and allows you to get a massive number of lives from scoring (the life counter maxes at 9) especially for a CAVE game. Dodonpachi's requirements literally just require getting a high enough hit chain, the easiest of all the requirements which can be done midway in Stage 5 or later in Stage 2 without too much difficulty, relative to the other requirements (memorizing all the bee locations in 4 stages). Note that getting into loop 2 in these is considered FAR easier than actually getting a 2-ALL as the second loop in each is brutally hard, with Progear adding a checkpoint system and Dodonpachi having a brutal TLB fight.

• Dangun Feveron is just an insanely hard game. Even if you can 1CC it, getting a no-miss (which I think triggers TLB) is way harder still. Ditto for Ketsui. The requirements for the easier Omote loop are already very strict given the difficulty, and then there's the Ura loop which requires perfect play of loop 1. Even if you get to the point where you can reliably 1CC Ketsui's first loop, you can be a long way off from the loop requirements.

[wiNteR]

Generally speaking, I agree. The specific goals were meant to be listed in increasing order of difficulty (probably I should have mentioned that). I do agree it would be useful to get a few 1CCs between each of the mentioned goals, since the difficulty increase between them isn't as small or smooth as one would want it to be.

Regarding dangun feveron, it really isn't that hard for just a basic 1CC (if one isn't playing for score that is). Also the higher the speed of ship (probably speed-1 might not be good though), it gets a bit harder to control it incrementally. It isn't a beginner game either though (so it doesn't suit the title of the thread).

Note however that the poster I quoted was talking about "intermediate level" (or possibly higher) goals. I mentioned the easier 1CCs(that suit the title of the thread) in the first part of the post.

=======================

I should also add that when talking about dodonpachi, I meant fulfilling the survival requirement (which does require work) which goes like:
lives lost<=2
Although usually if one gets the above requirement, there is good chance of getting the 270 chain requirement anyway (usually in stage-5 or stage-6).

[pegboy]

Agreed. I think shmups designed in the "classic" style like Twin Cobra, Raiden, etc. feel more doable than something like Dodonpachi which is more of a hard skill check. This will vary from person to person of course. Personally my overall skill/reaction level is very low so I have to rely heavily on going in with a very specific and safe plan. Something like a DDP 1CC is simply not in the cards for me even with the amount of resources available, but with something like Raiden I know that I can eventually clear it with the right strategy, enough practice and not screwing up in a bad place.

Man I don't know about this take, no offense but how much time and how far have you gotten in Raiden vs DDP?

To me personally Raiden is a much, much harder game than DoDonPachi, certainly for a 1-ALL and likely for a 2-ALL as well. Raiden is a 1 life game with checkpoints, a slow moving ship and massive hitbox, delayed bombs, all sorts of snipers and other shit that just kills you without warning. DDP you have a tiny hitbox, fast movement, and you get a ton of lives and instantly activating bombs.

Seriously, what's to stop you from coming up with a "very specific and safe plan" for DDP? You basically pick C-S, and plan out where you are going to use the 200 bombs they give you.

All that said, neither one of these games I would lump into "FUN AND EASY 1CCs".

For that you are looking at something like Thunder Force AC, Prehistoric Isle 2, Batsugun Special, Area 88, etc.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Seriously, what's to stop you from coming up with a "very specific and safe plan" for DDP? You basically pick C-S, and plan out where you are going to use the 200 bombs they give you.

I'm surprised B-S isn't recommended more given you can just hold shot and sweep everything without needing to even use the laser except for bosses. Its frontal shots are that strong, without the gaps in between the shots that C-S has.

And yeah, a clear of loop 1 of Raiden 1 is considered MUCH harder than a loop 1 clear of Dodonpachi, and the Japanese STG Wiki doesn't even have a 2 loop clear of Raiden listed on the difficulty (perhaps because it's that rare/difficult an accomplishment and therefore hard to judge?).

Even if dense bullet patterns are difficult for you to adjust to with your eyes, Dodonpachi should still be a WAY easier clear simply because of how unforgiving Raiden is. I'm convinced it'd take less time to train yourself to get used to Dodonpachi's bullets compared to learning all the trouble spots in Raiden precisely.

[pegboy]

I still don't think anyone has done a 2-all of the Japanese version ever on the forum. A few people have done a 2-all or 3-all in the case of Saucy, but they are playing the watered down version without the checkpoints and those versions also give you a full powerup on death if you haven't died for a long time. It turns the game into something that is possible to recover unlike the Japanese version where 1 death is game over.

[copy-paster]

That checkpoint is more or less just a nod to Toaplan (devs admitted that Raiden was their answer of Twin Cobra in the interview), not something designed in mind and I doubt Seibu did back then too. In Toaplan shmups at least you could limp through checkpoints after checkpoints also gives you generous extends, Raiden doesn't have all of this in checkpoint version.

Also the checkpoint only appears in set 1 version, apparently there's also Japanese set 2 and so on which removed checkpoints. I prefer without.

[Rastan78]

I still don't think anyone has done a 2-all of the Japanese version ever on the forum. A few people have done a 2-all or 3-all in the case of Saucy, but they are playing the watered down version without the checkpoints and those versions also give you a full powerup on death if you haven't died for a long time. It turns the game into something that is possible to recover unlike the Japanese version where 1 death is game over.

Regarding the Japanese version, there's also a lucrative checkpoint milk on the double sandlion boss (or sphinx or whatever it is?). You kill the upper lion first, sit in a safe spot and milk asteroids for a while. Then take the 2 turrets off the lower lion and suicide into an asteroid. Rinse repeat. There's a fairy you can pick up on each restart (near the dinosaur skeleton).

If any player were nuts enough to go for 10,000,000+a on the Japan version this would lead to hitting the score target much earlier. But you still have another hour to go after blowing all your extends on the milking.

That technique was shown on the Raiden "Aces High" Insanity DVD that came out many years ago.

[BurlyHeart]

I started to play shmups in my adulthood a few years ago. I have failed at lots of games and have a few very easy clears under my belt.

For me personally, two games that really clicked were Dariusburst and Blue Revolver. They had challenging yet very manageable, and relatively short, clears. There are higher difficulties if you want to test yourself further. Their scoring systems have stuff to learn, but again very doable. Each time I play I feel myself getting better. And most importantly, both games are tons of fun without being overly frustrating.

Tho I might change my mind if I ever start Blue Revolver's Parallel mode

[To Far Away Times]

If you want a "fun and easy" Raiden game, Raiden Fighters Jet on the short path with the Miculus ship is pretty easy. Raiden Fighters 2 with the fairy is a little harder, but still safely into easy territory as far as arcade shmups go. You can make Raiden Fighters 2 a lot harder on yourself by not picking a slave ship or the fairy though. You also get no extends in either game, but it's not really a big deal since there aren't spots where you expect to die every time.

[atro_city]

That checkpoint is more or less just a nod to Toaplan (devs admitted that Raiden was their answer of Twin Cobra in the interview), not something designed in mind and I doubt Seibu did back then too. In Toaplan shmups at least you could limp through checkpoints after checkpoints also gives you generous extends, Raiden doesn't have all of this in checkpoint version.

Also the checkpoint only appears in set 1 version, apparently there's also Japanese set 2 and so on which removed checkpoints. I prefer without.

Yeah, I have the PCB for one the later Japanese sets that doesn't have checkpoints. It's effectively the same as the international versions.

I didn't expect my statement for Raiden vs. Dodonpachi to be so controversial. To clarify, with Raiden are we talking about a 1P or 2P playthrough? There's a big difficulty difference between the two and I meant the 2P side when I made that statement. I've spent more time overall in Raiden but I've gotten to Stage 6 (2P, no checkpoints) and DDP always destroys me by Stage 3. Don't know what to say, DDP may be much more forgiving but I find myself dying a lot easier in that game. You're free to disagree but I can only speak from my own experience.

Edit: As pegboy mentioned, the checkpoint version of Raiden (aka JP Set 1) is effectively a one-life game and I don't know why anyone would prefer to play that version. That's why I never touch it.

[Sima Tuna]

I love raiden, but it is a fucking hilarious game. The little guys who fly into you faster than you can possibly react? In a checkpoint game? And if they miss you, they hang out on the bottom of the screen and fire completely horizontal sniper shots at you? hahahaha!

I can nomiss the first stage if I have good luck. That's about it.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I didn't expect my statement for Raiden vs. Dodonpachi to be so controversial.

It's not so much controversial as it is merely incorrect to say that DDP is less approachable than Raiden is. I can't think of a single player well versed in both that considers Raiden the easier of the two. You've said in the past that Raiden DX's training mode is your only 1CC so far, so I think it'll be something that changes for you as well with experience as you develop your fundamentals and learn to react to bullet patterns and read trajectories quickly and accurately. Improving your reaction time by playing will very likely cause you to find DDP easier than Raiden when you revisit it, especially as you'll be able to better utilize and appreciate the tools in DDP's arsenal.

DDP is just so much more forgiving in how you retain show power after a death, how responsive and small your ship is, how many bombs and lives you get, bombs not having a delay, bombs having full invulnerability, etc. These are all things that make a huge difference in a game, and it's hard to stress just how much their absence in Raiden makes it far more unforgiving. There also aren't any enemies that snipe you from the bottom of the screen like in Raiden, it's just not designed that way. DDP is also a shorter game; clearing the first loop in Raiden takes a good 12 minutes longer!

From an individual standpoint you might have some players that struggle with reading lots of bullets onscreen that find less dense games easier to visualize so it might be the case that you personally will always find "classic" games that focus less on density and more on fewer high speed bullets to be easier, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. But generally speaking, DDP is the easier game to learn, and I suspect you'll agree as you get better with shmups in general (unless you're just really not into CAVE's games and never "click" with that style, not everyone that enjoys shmups has to enjoy bullet hell type games).

As far as fun and easy 1ccs, I'd say Terra Force by Nichibutsu qualifies. Shockingly easy (1cc'd on my first or second credit easy, your weapons become VERY powerful) and quite enjoyable.

[blazinglazers69]

Just cleared Sagaia on Genesis with the ABEIMRW path. Felt VERY comfy and doable. Just played through the game casually for a few days. It avoids Gradius syndrome by giving you shields that allow for a few hits so if you die and lose your power-ups it's totally your fault. But yeah, I loved the difficulty curve on that path I took and the presentation is great too. The fish sprites are awesome and unique--much more so than some dime-a-dozen Raiden-looking tank on a beige desert.

[To Far Away Times]

Segaia is really good on the Genesis.

I like to think of it as a director's cut of the arcade game, sorta like Gradius III SNES.

[blazinglazers69]

For sure. And I definitely appreciate the more standard aspect ratio. The arcade skinny super-stretched ratio just always felt awkward to me.

[To Far Away Times]

All the sprites are redrawn to fit and the levels are reworked to fit the aspect ratio. Playing in 4:3 feels real good in that game. It's the hard way of doing things, but it makes for a better end product.