Jarpig pride worldwide (Let's talk about JRPGs)

[BryanM]

It's FF so there's never any definitive edition. There'll always be a new version later with different graphics and different changes. Many, MANY new versions.

At least these have a 4:3 ratio option, and you can probably do something to fix the font (which is a crime against humanity) on PC or something, maybe. This is far from being as bad as the FF6 mobile "port", where the characters walked around with pregnant hearts Alien-style.

I'll always be on team translated Famicom version, for this one. There was already a remake for Final Fantasy 3, it was called Final Fantasy 5.


All that talk about the FF6 splitting the team up and it being a challenge since you only leveled one team, takes me back to my very first playthrough. I'm envious, since I found it challenging too. Didn't appreciate how OP the Dragon Horn was back then - almost on par with the Offering and Gem Box. Three broken relics that each make a character three times as strong or more.

[scrilla4rella]

Does anyone know if the Romancing SaGa Minstrel Song remaster on Steam is any good?

...longshot, I know.

It's my favorite SaGa game. Excellent remaster too.

Is this essentially the remake that came out on PS2 originally? I had a hard time with that one, but I was trying to play it like SaGa Frontier so obviously I was doing it wrong.

[Sima Tuna]

Does anyone know if the Romancing SaGa Minstrel Song remaster on Steam is any good?

...longshot, I know.

It's my favorite SaGa game. Excellent remaster too.

Is this essentially the remake that came out on PS2 originally? I had a hard time with that one, but I was trying to play it like SaGa Frontier so obviously I was doing it wrong.

It's a remade version of the ps2 remake, which includes a ton of quality-of-life features not found in the ps2 game. The ps2 game explained very little of how its systems worked or even what the systems were. Minstrel Song Remastered gives you all of the information and tracks it on your hud. You can always tell exactly what your Event Rank is at all times, so you know whether or not you should take battles or avoid them. The basic idea of Event Rank is the world runs on a global timer that increments when you win fights. Winning fights is also how you gain stats, so they are inextricably linked. You can't grind without incrementing the global timer. So you WILL have to pass time and it's actually required to reach the final ER prior to beating the game. But quests are tracked through the global event rank as well. Many of them have a start date and a cutoff date. If you can't find any quests to do and you've checked every town, the odds are good the next cycle of quests haven't begun yet. On the other hand, if you have a lot of quests in your logbook, it's a fair wager many are going to close after x amount of time.

Since your Event Rank is always tracked in-game by the hud, there's no confusion about the system. If you are rushing to complete quests, avoid non-mandatory fights. If you can't find any quests or the few you have left seem uncompletable with your current power level, then it's time to take fights. Of course, this is strictly from a completionist perspective (how I get the most enjoyment from Minstrel Song, although I don't play this way for most games.) If you don't care about completing as many quests as possible, you can just ignore the ER clock and play normally. You'll get strong as you win fights, spark techs, use magic and buy better gear.

FYI, the best advice I can give to a new player to ease the difficulty curve is to save up for the really good armor pieces. You can buy an armor piece in the early game that will be equipped on your party for the entire journey. The game doesn't gate gear behind ER in a linear fashion like most jarpigs. Stacking defense on at least one character early really helps to reduce the impact of focus fire and boss damage.

Spoiler

The only way to check your event rank in ps2 minstrel song was by talking to a child in the towns and checking an FAQ to see what your ER was, based on the topics of discussion the kid had open. It's hard to explain. More tutorial messages would become available at higher ER, and so that was the only way to know your ER in the old days, pre-ER clock remaster. Incidentally, you might hear people talk about Battle Rank and Event Rank as if they're something different in Minstrel Song. They are not. The mechanism for advancing BR is the exact same as advancing ER, therefore they are functionally identical. There is no difference between your battle rank and your event rank in Minstrel Song, and no way to raise one without the other.

[ryu]

The creator of Suikoden (and a spiritual sequel that is in development) passed away.

https://rabbitandbearstudios.com/%e7%9a ... %e3%81%9b/

[Blinge]

Hey Sima, thanks for the great response.

I do worry that by focusing on the event timer etc it might be possible to ruin the immersion.. or.. organicness?
Is it possible to turn it off or just blast through the game letting whichever events happen, come what may?

is it even a good idea..

[Sumez]

I do worry that by focusing on the event timer etc it might be possible to ruin the immersion.. or.. organicness?
Is it possible to turn it off or just blast through the game letting whichever events happen, come what may?

I had the same impression reading that writeup, and it actually made me reconsider getting the port eventually. I already have the PS2 version, but since I never got far in it, I'd contemplated restarting on the port, mostly just because playing PS2 games is generally a bit of a pain.

But managing the event timer at all times feels like a bit of an annoying mechanical abstraction. I kind of enjoy the idea of an organic feeling world where things will happen independently of the player, and sure there's a ton of stuff that can be missed, but it also doesn't matter. This is the exact thing that made the other Romancing SaGa games appealing to me.

[Despatche]

The creator of Suikoden (and a spiritual sequel that is in development) passed away.

https://rabbitandbearstudios.com/%e7%9a ... %e3%81%9b/

This is fucked. I can only hope that Eiyuden Chronicle is as much of what he wanted as possible. Rest in peace, Murayama.

Rising is honestly a neat little game for a "bonus", just like Curse of the Moon. I can't stand how reviewers have no respect for "smaller" RPGs anymore, the only ones that get through are dumb memes like UnderTale. If Hundred Heroes is at least as good as Rising, Murayama will have done far more than enough.

[Blinge]

But managing the event timer at all times feels like a bit of an annoying mechanical abstraction. I kind of enjoy the idea of an organic feeling world where things will happen independently of the player, and sure there's a ton of stuff that can be missed, but it also doesn't matter. This is the exact thing that made the other Romancing SaGa games appealing to me.

being able to switch off that goblin-gamer brain " I must experience ALL content on my run or I haven't optimally played the game arghgh!! "
is the difference between enjoying myself and not.

Some people don't have it, others can't switch it off lmao

[Sima Tuna]

Hey Sima, thanks for the great response.

I do worry that by focusing on the event timer etc it might be possible to ruin the immersion.. or.. organicness?
Is it possible to turn it off or just blast through the game letting whichever events happen, come what may?

is it even a good idea..

I would actually recommend playing that way. The clock will be there in case you decide you want to check it (which was not an option in the original release.) But you don't have to be anal-compulsive like I am. I mean, I was looking at quest timer guides and trying to figure out how to get every possible quest under a new game. But you're not intended to play that way. You can absolutely play by doing the quests that appeal to you/that you can find organically, taking encounters as they happen and not worrying about Event Rank.

The intended play style for Minstrel Song (from the devs) was almost certainly to bumble through your first playthrough and use NG+ for completionism if you care.

Unrelated: Very sorry to hear about Suikoden dude passing away. Suikoden 1 is one of my favorite jarpigs that I discovered as an adult.

But managing the event timer at all times feels like a bit of an annoying mechanical abstraction. I kind of enjoy the idea of an organic feeling world where things will happen independently of the player, and sure there's a ton of stuff that can be missed, but it also doesn't matter. This is the exact thing that made the other Romancing SaGa games appealing to me.

You can still play that way. Don't confuse my sperging for the "required" gameplay style. I'm just trying to provide all the info upfront and explain how the remaster improves on the original by illuminating opaque gameplay mechanics some found frustrating. If anything, the way ER and BR have been combined in Minstrel Song just simplifies the process of passing time and gives you a better idea of what is happening in the game, however you ultimately choose to play.

The game still doesn't tell you about companion weapon/skill affinities. There are lots of secrets and little things to learn still.

[Sumez]

being able to switch off that goblin-gamer brain " I must experience ALL content on my run or I haven't optimally played the game arghgh!! "
is the difference between enjoying myself and not.

Some people don't have it, others can't switch it off lmao

I think that's the crux. I can switch off my goblin brain when I'm not given much to work with in the first place. But if the game has a feature to see those timers, I don't know if I could force myself to ignore it. :\
And that's despite never in my life having enjoyed that sort of approach to a video game. I don't think I can even think of any game where "100% completion" felt satisfying to me.

[ryu]

I have a harder time to ignore side content when the game throws a quest log or markers at me. But doing that stuff also generally makes me enjoy games less because it often just reduces to busywork.

[BryanM]

Aye, I loathe the chore list. I can pick flowers for hours, but if the chore list tells me I have to climb a mountain to pick a specific flower, I just dun wanna do it. At least hide it under a thin visage of verisimilitude, for crying out loud. Like the NPC's friendship meter in a Harvest Moon game, where they like certain presents and hate others.

And that's despite never in my life having enjoyed that sort of approach to a video game. I don't think I can even think of any game where "100% completion" felt satisfying to me.

Super Mario World, but it's just a couple dozen secret exists and most unlock a new stage, which is an actual reward for your effort.

... then they ruined it in later releases where there's five hidden coins to collect on every stage for no reason. Ugh.

[ryu]

Well, we have been working on RPGirl for about 3 years now and we're finally almost ready to privately release our first ever playable demo. If you would like to try it out, add yourself to our mailing list:

Signup for RPGirl Closed Demo

Aiming for Jan/Feb timeframe!

RPGirl: First Slice goes live tomorrow night!

https://yellowbuttons.games/rpgirl/
https://yellowbuttons.itch.io/rpgirl

Feel free to sign up on the sheet if you're interested and haven't already!

Sorry. I tried to play this some weeks ago but none of the controllers I had at the ready were a good fit. If I don't forget about it entirely I'll try again on a free sunday with the PS5 pad (hoping it'll work on Winblows).

10 year ago I would have mentioned how important button configs are for PC games. These days I might just be the odd one out with only a bunch of saturn pads in my office.

[Necronopticous]

Obviously we will have full controller mapping in the complete game, but the config menu didn’t make the cut for this demo. You can play with keyboard as well. There are two control schemes supported on keyboard, both detailed at the bottom of the game’s itch page:

https://yellowbuttons.itch.io/rpgirl

[ryu]

Obviously we will have full controller mapping in the complete game, but the config menu didn’t make the cut for this demo. You can play with keyboard as well. There are two control schemes supported on keyboard, both detailed at the bottom of the game’s itch page:

https://yellowbuttons.itch.io/rpgirl

Thanks, I missed the instructions because I went straight to the downloads page.

I just played the FFVII Rebirth demo. Thought I was going to bother writing up a review but I find it hard to care because it felt just like playing the first volume of the "Remake". Again, the atmosphere of the original is completely gone and everything looks and feels generic. This is especially bad now because they screwed up the Nibelheim area which was one of my favorite parts in terms of atmosphere. I can't believe they removed the iconic staircase in the Shinra villa with a generic copy paste elevator. The Mako reactor looks like a generic facility. And of course the combat is still clunky and annoying. Don't care much for open world design anymore either. I'll be skipping this one.

[XoPachi]

Watching someone stream Rebirth and 13 just showed his true colors. Fellas, I am...

unhappy

[XoPachi]

With Akira Toriyama passing, I can only wonder if a protege of sorts will pick up the mantle for Dragon Quest. What unfortunate news. We lost a culture shifting God King. It's stunning to think how many youths he inspired over the last 30 years. Changed an industry forever.

[Blinge]

Yeah i wish they'd replace the composer instead..

[Necronopticous]

He’s dead, too.

[Sima Tuna]

DQ11 certainly sounds like it was composed by a corpse. At least the midi version does.

[cfx]

In my opinion the orchestrated version in DQ11S isn't any better, though I know reviews disagree. Better sounding instruments don't make the compositions any less insipid.

I stuck with the original version on PS4 instead of the S version because any supposed improvements in the music were certainly not worth the graphical downgrade for me.

[Sumez]

With Akira Toriyama passing, I can only wonder if a protege of sorts will pick up the mantle for Dragon Quest. What unfortunate news. We lost a culture shifting God King. It's stunning to think how many youths he inspired over the last 30 years. Changed an industry forever.

I think I've talked about this before, but I can't imagine Toriyama being there or not would make any realistic difference for Dragon Quest. He poured a lot of personality into a lot of the classic monsters that still make up most of what you're fighting in the most recent games, but that work is done.
Supposedly he designed the main cast of DQ11 and made the hand drawn box art variant - but honestly, is there any proof he even did, or was it just handled by his studio, and if anyone else had designed a cast using the signature Akira Toriyama art style, would you have been able to tell the difference? I don't think the artwork he (allegedly) made for the game has managed to exude anywhere near as much personality as the stuff he did for the series in the 80s, which also included a bunch of companion material such as the official strategy guides, which are full of cute doodles and gags.

This isn't a jab as him, that would be especially disrespectful right now - I just think his art style at this point is more of a recognizable tradition that helps define the series than anything directly involving his actual work.

That movie that came out a few years ago based on DQ5 (Your Story) surprised me quite a bit by the decision to *not* rely on the Akira Toriyama art style, despite retaining a very cartoony look. I figured it was probably Square Enix experimenting with how well the brand would fare without relying on that look, possibly in anticipation of future games.
But if DQ12 turns out to use a different art style, that would probably be kinda unfortunate timing now :S

[Necronopticous]

RPGirl is live on Steam!
https://store.steampowered.com/app/2916660/RPGirl/

[ryu]

Obviously we will have full controller mapping in the complete game, but the config menu didn’t make the cut for this demo. You can play with keyboard as well. There are two control schemes supported on keyboard, both detailed at the bottom of the game’s itch page:

https://yellowbuttons.itch.io/rpgirl

I played through First Slice now.

For some reason the directional controls were broken for me with the official PS4 controller. The analog stick made Mack move in waves and pressing up/down + left/right, instead of making her switch directions or move diagonally, caused her to stop and stand still (edit: but they work with kb controls and this shady SNES to USB adaptor I got)

Without a detailed manual the game was very confusing at first but I managed to break into it and have fun anyways. Felt like playing RPG Maker games when I was much younger.

With how short the demo was I find it hard to judge the mechanics against traditional RPG leveling and combat. But I think the random combat elements will make it hard to balance encounters that are meant to be hard without being liable to impose impossible situations on the player.

Monsters keep following you across the entire map when you escape. Was really annoying with the glitched movement because avoiding repeated reencounters was impossible.

[Necronopticous]

I played through First Slice now.

Hey, thanks for trying it out!

For some reason the directional controls were broken for me with the official PS4 controller. The analog stick made Mack move in waves and pressing up/down + left/right, instead of making her switch directions or move diagonally, caused her to stop and stand still (edit: but they work with kb controls and this shady SNES to USB adaptor I got)

We're using Rewired which is the single most popular & well-supported package for input in the Unity world, so theoretically any controller within reason (certainly the stock PS4 controller) should work without issue. The reality is that we just need more thorough testing here, and we need to give players the ability to map controls & control labels however they want. This is all in the works, but didn't make the cut for this initial demo.

As for the sensitivity issues you experienced when trying to control Mack with the control stick, we will eventually smooth this out somehow, but it's not a huge priority for us since the game is just not intended to be played with a control stick--the input is pure 8-way and designed around a d-pad (or arrow keys). We made a lot of potentially unpopular decisions like this to err on the side of feeling more like an actual console game, rather than a modern Unity game.

Without a detailed manual the game was very confusing at first but I managed to break into it and have fun anyways. Felt like playing RPG Maker games when I was much younger.

Yeah, we have not spent any time on tutorials yet. A lot of the mechanics are subject to change as we accumulate more playtesting data, and this demo is mostly aimed at in-person showings where we can explain things verbally. Rest assured that the game will explain itself in the final release!

With how short the demo was I find it hard to judge the mechanics against traditional RPG leveling and combat. But I think the random combat elements will make it hard to balance encounters that are meant to be hard without being liable to impose impossible situations on the player.

We may have to adjust some things. Certainly the very beginning of the demo right now is tuned too hard when you haven't gained any levels, acquired any equipment, or recruited any allies. Almost nothing in battle is purely random, even though it may appear that way at first glance.

One of the least understood things in the playtests we have done is the momentum mechanic, which is a function of the character's speed and the number of turns they have taken (displayed as a stack of up and down arrows on the right side of each character's info box). The higher the momentum, the more likely a character is to have a turn generated in the turn order. Investing in the Pep stat, and wearing speed-boosting equipment is a good way to stave off enemies getting a long string of turns back-to-back. Also, there will be abilities (both passive and active) that can help do damage control even when they do. We hid one accessory in the demo (you can get before you fight a single enemy if you know where to look) that will guarantee getting the first turn in a combat encounter, for example.

Monsters keep following you across the entire map when you escape. Was really annoying with the glitched movement because avoiding repeated reencounters was impossible.

Running from fast enemies is really just a completely unsupported idea in this demo. We have a couple of solutions in mind that we're weighing here, but we just haven't executed on them yet. Next demo!

[ryu]

Yeah, we have not spent any time on tutorials yet. A lot of the mechanics are subject to change as we accumulate more playtesting data, and this demo is mostly aimed at in-person showings where we can explain things verbally. Rest assured that the game will explain itself in the final release!

Probably a good thing. Though personally I prefer to have the explanations in a manual instead of the game spoonfeeding me information.

We may have to adjust some things. Certainly the very beginning of the demo right now is tuned too hard when you haven't gained any levels, acquired any equipment, or recruited any allies.

It's not like the difficulty made me quit. I rather enjoyed the throwback to days past when RPGs required effort.

One of the least understood things in the playtests we have done is the momentum mechanic, which is a function of the character's speed and the number of turns they have taken (displayed as a stack of up and down arrows on the right side of each character's info box). The higher the momentum, the more likely a character is to have a turn generated in the turn order.

Yeah I completely missed that, didn't even pay attention to the arrows and assumed the turn order was random.

[ryu]

Eh, I guess it makes sense for the japanese to adopt the term too now that western RPGs are probably just as popular over there as they're here.

[Necronopticous]

Surprised to see that, given how contentious the term seems to have become in recent years. What is that picture from, exactly?

[ryu]

Surprised to see that, given how contentious the term seems to have become in recent years. What is that picture from, exactly?

The official first guide for Eiyuden Chronicles. Basically an extended manual in the format that game guides used to have in the SNES era. I'll have a closer look when I actually start playing this... after Person 3 Reload... so probably in a year or two lol

Is the term really all that contentious today? I think it's only the resetera crowd that raised a fuss about it agreeing with Yoshida.