Cyber Shadow

[Rastan78]

Yeah the upgrades that last three hits. Some of them seem pretty decent. There's even one that replenishes your SP gauge constantly. They were smart enough to have it refill slowly so you can't just spam shuriken and turn the game into Contra.

I like how when they introduce a new mechanic the next level will showcase that, like when you get the dash you will need it to pass long spike pits etc. So even when they introduce the parry they weren't afraid to expect the player to learn how to use it. And it's really satisfying to reflect back shots. I like how the parry freezes the shot then you whack it in the direction you want. You can just leave it there frozen, but it slowly diminishes.

So many games now have all these upgrade options and skill trees that slowly trickle new abilities but level design that doesn't really showcase or require the abilities. That or new abilities are just tied to arbitrary gatekeeping. Ok now I have a shovel so I can dig through that wall to a new area, but does using the shovel feel empowering and fun to use? Does the next area communicate how to use the item and show me why it's cool? If the shovel is not fun to use do I care about incrementally upgrading it.

This game kept the special powers simple, fun to use, no going into menus constantly, and kept it all about the level design.

That being said there's a part of me that wishes that just about every platformer that came out since Meat Boy didn't have to rely on wall jumping.

[Stevens]

The parry is a sick addition.

Part of me wishes all the move set was available from the start, or that there will be a way to play it like that. That said the game (just got the dash) really seems to be hitting stride about now.

This game kept the special powers simple, fun to use, no going into menus constantly, and kept it all about the level design.

I love Sekiro - have almost 200 hours in it, but damn if that wasn't the single most annoying thing about it.

I like the up/down + button or the same in the air. The parry window is really generous too. The game seriously has the right amount of moves.

[Rastan78]

I played a little bit of Ori and the second I saw this screen I was just like ugh. Fuck that.

Half of the upgrades are things you barely notice during gameplay.

[kitten]

ori and the blind forest is kind of innocuous and whatever until you unlock the full moveset, then it turns into donkey kong countryvania with Indie Award Winning Art. it seemed like a game that was built for me to hate it from the beginning, but i didn't actually start disliking actively, even despite the totally superfluous and unnecessary """combat,""" until *that*. iirc it does something remarkably similar to how tedious barrel levels are in dkc complete with trial and error & rote memorization and it comes with an art downgrade, to boot. for all my criticism of tweening and 2d environments like these, i actually think most of the game is pretty, but man does that art start to unravel near the end along with the mechanics. not that i'd recommend it even if it held it together, for the record. even at its best, i mostly just find it tolerable.

it's among the more harmless of these types of games, but my blood still boils recalling the designer popping into some now-ancient neogaf thread to talk about how he'd "improve" newer mario games by drip-feeding the moveset via unlocks. as i tried to look that old post up for this thread, i could only find him talking about how the sequel was going to be like smb3 to smb1, and i think i'll grit my teeth before popping off about how multi-facetedly stupid that is.

- - -

anyway, i got a free code for cyber shadow because i (slacker) backed steel assault -



i guess i should. maybe redeem it? i hate playing games on the computer =((( i want to play on my nin ten doh on my cee arr tee. i also feel like i'm going to ultimately dislike this as i did the messenger, albeit i'll not be cringing at the presentation. god damn, i hated that little lore dump gremlin in the messenger and all its dumb 8bit theater-esque irony shit and warbly tunes. 'metroidvanias,' to me, are always just going to be unpleasant genre mutants that never capitalize on or realize their strengths except in weird outlying cases like super metroid where the world and movement are painstakingly considered (or sotn where they're such a visually outstanding toybox full of weird and incredible distractions with satisfying basics). context and pacing are so much of what makes good action games what they are, and you lose those with non-linear backtracking and upgrades almost no matter what you do.

the only metroidvania (i hate this term. i hate it. i hate it more every day) i'm looking forward to is bushiden, and mostly because it looks & sounds so damn hot that i think i'll be thoroughly distracted from whatever backtracking and lack of structure it succumbs to.

[Sumez]

Cyber Shadow has tons of lore dumping, and it's not very good. It's intentionally confusing information mostly delivered completely out of context, and like 90% of it completely redundant.
The good part is that all of it can be ignored. You do not need to interact with any of the objects in the game that give you the lore, and there's absolutely none of the smug attempts at awful sarcastic "comedy" that you see in The Messenger. So far I've only run into a single straight-up "joke" in the game, and only a tiny handful of overt references ("A huge battleship is approaching. Let's attack aggressively")

In other words, this is in absolutely no way The Messenger. It does stretch itself to appeal more to a modern audience in ways that may not mesh too well with your tastes, but at the same time it's hard to dislike the game for it. It feels like a missed opportunity at worst, but at the same time I easily see why not doing it would have been an equally missed opportunity.

The drip-feeding of abilities might not be the best thing to have in a game like this, but I don't think it suffers from it, and it is in no way comparable to the Ori games. The early stages where you don't have most of your later skills don't feel like they are lacking them. Rather, they feel like slightly different games, like if each stage in the first half of the game is the sequel to the previous one, which is also supported by the way each stage features rather different design ideas and new types of challenges.

[kitten]

are the lore dumps like in the marathon games or something? that sounds kind of like what you're describing

[Sumez]

I didn't play those. Most of them are of the "data log" type with the occasional graphical flashback scene.

I really, honestly, and wholeheartedly recommend just skipping them. It's not worth judging the game over.

[kitten]

if i play it, i'll probably skip them - i don't think i could have played timespinner without skipping the logs lol. though this still subjected me to the weird sjw pow-wow at 100% quest completion :[[[

[Stevens]

Minor gripe with the controls.

Parrying is tap forward. Dash is button or tap forward x 2. There is a minor issue parrying multiple projectiles in that sometimes you dash instead. And if you're on a tight platform It you're probably dashing into a pit. Annoying.

One of those functions should be mapped just to a button, or players choice.

[Sumez]

Yeah, I turned off forward x 2 to dash immediately after I got that skill. It's much easier to just tap the shoulder button.
At least they thought of that. Probably only enabled it by default to adhere to a "classic" two button control sheme.

[Rastan78]

Oh cool. I was having a surprising amount of trouble with dash not coming out in certain cases. Usually coming off of a small platform right into spikes.

I didn't realize there was the option to press shoulder button to dash. That will definitely be the way to go.

In SF3, the mother of tap forward to parry, accidental dash when parrying multiple hits is never a problem. And dashing is super easy too. I literally never don't get a dash to come out in that game playing on the exact same controller I'm playing this. Maybe they made the window for dashing kind of slow so it's actually possible to input too fast? Thats probably not it, but manual dashing does feel weird in some way.

[Stevens]

Yeah, I turned off forward x 2 to dash immediately after I got that skill.

Wait you can turn it off? I checked in the options but must have missed it.

Edit - It's under game options. I checked controls

Thanks Sumez.

Reached stage 9 I think. Does it feel a bit like NES Strider to anyone else?

[Stevens]

It does stretch itself to appeal more to a modern audience in ways that may not mesh too well with your tastes, but at the same time it's hard to dislike the game for it. It feels like a missed opportunity at worst, but at the same time I easily see why not doing it would have been an equally missed opportunity.

The drip-feeding of abilities might not be the best thing to have in a game like this, but I don't think it suffers from it, and it is in no way comparable to the Ori games. The early stages where you don't have most of your later skills don't feel like they are lacking them. Rather, they feel like slightly different games, like if each stage in the first half of the game is the sequel to the previous one, which is also supported by the way each stage features rather different design ideas and new types of challenges.

It isn't just me then as I have been having many of the same feelings the further I go into the game. It is a good game. It's fun, looks and sounds nice. However I was really hoping for a short, linear, arcade style experience with all my skills from the get go.

I understand why they made the design choices they did. It's 2021 and we're dinosaurs. I wish it were more distilled though. Although the things that I have issues with are probably the things most people love about it. Again I think it's really good, but could have been extraordinary. In fact after the first level I was really hopeful - it was exactly what I described.

It's also possible that my expectations were just way off with it.

[Mischief Maker]

Is there a hard mode/new game+ ?

[Rastan78]

I don't think this game is too far removed from 8 and 16 bit classics. It just skews more towards the console side of things than an arcadey experience.

Some of my all time favorites like Actraiser 2, Demons Crest, Super Metroid, Dragon's Trap etc had a bit more sprawl to them. They're not one sitting games except for the real experts who can burn through them in a matter of a couple hours or less. In any genre I think there's an art to making the most out of a game designed around home console vs arcade. Cyber Shadow definitely feels like a console game.

The main concession here to modern gaming is just the closer checkpoints and infinite lives. The game does feel balanced to be challenging within that framework though. I do think if they were going to make you continue and repeat an entire stage after losing 3 lives they would have had to tone down the difficulty accordingly.

[kid aphex]

How is everything about this game so awesome, but that cover art such trash...?
Wtf...

[Volteccer_Jack]

However I was really hoping for a short, linear, arcade style experience with all my skills from the get go.

I would've loved that game. But personally I love this game just as much, so I'm not complaining .

[Sumez]

I beat the game yesterday, and I'll say the second half of it definitely leans a lot more towards modern "retro styled" indie games, than the NES action platformer inspirations that permeates the earlier half. Not unlike The Messenger, the tail end of the game focuses a LOT more on platforming and precise in-air maneuvring, which will definitely strike Ninja Gaiden fans the wrong way, but at least it still manages to play like a solid action game.

My biggest issues are still the few places sprawled across most of the stages where the challenge just feels dumb and unfair. It's not anything an experienced player wouldn't be able to guard themselves against on repeat playthrough, and in complaining about it I'm afraid of coming across a bit like the people who complain about jumping into a bat when crossing a pit in Ninja Gaiden and claiming it was the game's fault.
But there are definitely several points in the game where an enemy will just rush at you with no warning from the edge of the screen, or guard the opposite side of a wide pit you're expected to dash-slash across, not being able to see what's on the other end.
If you took out all the parts of the game that didn't feel that good, you'd probably be left with a much shorter and better game, but at the same time I don't feel there is any part of the stages that feels like filler or padding. The game manages to keep fresh all the way through.

[Stevens]

If you took out all the parts of the game that didn't feel that good, you'd probably be left with a much shorter and better game, but at the same time I don't feel there is any part of the stages that feels like filler or padding. The game manages to keep fresh all the way through.

I'm at the end now. They should have kept the platforming to a minimum towards the end and introduced some end game type enemies instead (Borrowing BIL's NWOA suggestion for a dangerous normal enemy you would dread showing up and be happy to see die). Dev should have kept playing to the game's greatest strength - the fast paced combat with your kick ass move set. Because when that is what's going on the game is a lot of fun.

Again - well made game. I like the graphics and the music is pretty solid (Apparator's OST should be the boss music), but definitely a case of where less would have been more.

[Sumez]

My ultimate ranking:
Blazing Chrome > Cyber Shadow >>>>>>>>>>>>> The Messenger

And that's actually big praise for Blazing Chrome.

Is there a hard mode/new game+ ?

This is a good question. I haven't been able to unlock any, and I did get 100% collection. There's a "feat" for beating the game without picking up any upgrades though, which might be the equivalent of a hard mode. Could be fun to go for, but the game is so long I don't feel like doing it right away.
It's kind of weird that the game keeps referring to itself as "normal mode". Maybe other modes will be future DLC stuff?

100% is kinda stupid btw. Getting it basically involves teleporting back to stages where you didn't get all items, and find the few you couldn't get when you were first there because you lacked the moveset (most commonly just the charge slash actually). Each of these will just reward you with an extra SP bar, which has no actual purpose, and pit you against nearly the same miniboss three times.

It's not a very interesting thing to go for, and it doesn't seem to unlock anything new?

[Stevens]

Agree on that. Blazing Chrome is easily the best of the three.

[copy-paster]

I've been playing this one recently up to chapter 5, was worried about the parry mechanic (always not fan of this thing in general) and it looks like the window for parry is big enough to not having to be accurate. No crouch is really strange tho as some parts would be much manageable with it.

Agree on that. Blazing Chrome is easily the best of the three.

I might play this game wrong but I just couldn't play it properly even on casual playthrough, pressure-based jumping is probably my biggest gripe as sometimes I just took a hit because I wasn't jumpig high enough.

[XoPachi]

The Messenger was funny but overrated. It was strong for the first 1/3 of the game. Then it nosedived and never quite got back up to speed. Finished it but never really liked it.

So glad Cyber Shadow came out. I should replay this. For like the 8th time.

[velo]

I might play this game wrong but I just couldn't play it properly even on casual playthrough, pressure-based jumping is probably my biggest gripe as sometimes I just took a hit because I wasn't jumpig high enough.

That's one of the things that killed it for me, that and the rail shooter bit, and the spongy zako... couldn't get into it.