RetroTINK 5x-Pro

[tongshadow]

BlurBusters is helping in the development, hardware-level BFI confirmed:
https://twitter.com/BlurBusters/status/ ... 3048869888

[bobrocks95]

It's not mode 7, they're talking about the SNES 512-pixel mode, which some games use for transparencies, similar to dithering. Filters for these effects can be done as postprocessing by trying to identify if the current pixel is part of a dither pattern and averaging the pixels together if they are. I've seen these sorts of filters implemented on FPGAs before, but they're finicky and the user has to select the sensitivity, and they usually have side effects.

I'd suspect settings would have to be tweaked on a per-game basis at the very least. Don't know if it's something Mike has messed around with at all, but it would be a great feature in my opinion if it can be done decently well.

[spmbx]

I think you can forget about that for reasons mentioned above.
BFI news is exciting, i have never used BFI myself so would like to check that out

[orange808]

My apologies. You weren't referencing the mode 7 stuff. My bad.

On the other hand, the root problem is the same: I still can't tell a sprite from the background layers or other sprites. There's no way to predict what colors a sprite will be at any given moment. I can't always identify a specific sprite without access to the hardware.

[Josh128]

John Linneman just shared excellent results for 720p and 1080p scaling. Tons of people complain that their 4K TV doesn't do a nearest-neighbor scale for 1080p sources, now here's a device that can.

I will say the upscaling looks amazing for 2D/2.5D visuals, but for 3D content it will just amplify the low fidelity and end up generating a very pixelated picture.

It might look better compared to what some TVs do, but it's better to keep expectations in check because it wont suddenly make 720p look like native 4k as some people would believe. But at least the grid mask effect helps to counteract the pixelation, in the same way fake scanlines do : https://twitter.com/dark1x/status/1686442231392063509

This is why scanlines are a thing with 720p (2 game, one blank) and 1080p (one game, one blank) on a 4K set and scaler. 720p will look as good as native, 1080p will look very close to as good.

[Guspaz]

My apologies. You weren't referencing the mode 7 stuff. My bad.

On the other hand, the root problem is the same: I still can't tell a sprite from the background layers or other sprites. There's no way to predict what colors a sprite will be at any given moment. I can't always identify a specific sprite without access to the hardware.

You do it by doing things like comparing the current pixel to two pixels ago and blending with the one in between if they're similar enough. It requires optimal sampling be working properly and it doesn't work perfectly without artifacts.

[orange808]

My apologies. You weren't referencing the mode 7 stuff. My bad.

On the other hand, the root problem is the same: I still can't tell a sprite from the background layers or other sprites. There's no way to predict what colors a sprite will be at any given moment. I can't always identify a specific sprite without access to the hardware.

You do it by doing things like comparing the current pixel to two pixels ago and blending with the one in between if they're similar enough. It requires optimal sampling be working properly and it doesn't work perfectly without artifacts.

Ah. Thanks, captain obvious.

Of course there are artifacts. Everything is colorful and animated.

Yeah. I can round off the colors and hunt checkerboard patterns.

[neorichieb1971]

double post.

[neorichieb1971]

John Linneman just shared excellent results for 720p and 1080p scaling. Tons of people complain that their 4K TV doesn't do a nearest-neighbor scale for 1080p sources, now here's a device that can.

I will say the upscaling looks amazing for 2D/2.5D visuals, but for 3D content it will just amplify the low fidelity and end up generating a very pixelated picture.

It might look better compared to what some TVs do, but it's better to keep expectations in check because it wont suddenly make 720p look like native 4k as some people would believe. But at least the grid mask effect helps to counteract the pixelation, in the same way fake scanlines do : https://twitter.com/dark1x/status/1686442231392063509

This is why scanlines are a thing with 720p (2 game, one blank) and 1080p (one game, one blank) on a 4K set and scaler. 720p will look as good as native, 1080p will look very close to as good.

I set everything to 720p that is native 240p. Thats always been my setting since someone here stated that a decade or two ago. To me it just feels more genuine than other settings especially with scanlines.

[Mr.Ash]

I suggest first trying a game that supports 480p natively without GSM, such as gran turismo 4 from its internal menu. but first make sure your choose YPbPr in PS2 main menu.

Thanks for the tip. I have now tested the different image outputs with the game Primal (PAL version, offers 480p video mode). And here everything works as it should, PAL 50Hz, NTSC 60Hz and 480p 60Hz, everything is recognized and displayed by the RT5X.

But what is then different with the 480p output via GSM? And why does the DVDO VP50 have no problems with this, but the RT5X does?

Actually, I was planning to finally send the good old VP50 into well-deserved retirement and fully rely on the RT5X in the future. But I probably have no choice but to continue to operate both devices in parallel.

[bobrocks95]

I suggest first trying a game that supports 480p natively without GSM, such as gran turismo 4 from its internal menu. but first make sure your choose YPbPr in PS2 main menu.

Thanks for the tip. I have now tested the different image outputs with the game Primal (PAL version, offers 480p video mode). And here everything works as it should, PAL 50Hz, NTSC 60Hz and 480p 60Hz, everything is recognized and displayed by the RT5X.

But what is then different with the 480p output via GSM? And why does the DVDO VP50 have no problems with this, but the RT5X does?

Actually, I was planning to finally send the good old VP50 into well-deserved retirement and fully rely on the RT5X in the future. But I probably have no choice but to continue to operate both devices in parallel.

Quite a hassle, but you could try some different RT5X firmware versions and see if it worked on an older one, then let Mike know it's a weird edge case regression. Did changing to triple buffer change anything?

[ultraman982]

Wanted to see if any of y'all could help or point me in the right direction.

Finally got my Retro Gaming Cables Scart cable and was excited to finally try my Dreamcast through the RetroTink5x (which has been transformative for PS2).

Unfortunately, I'm not getting any output when switched onto 31khz or 480p. This is with every game I've tried (Sonic, MVC2, Crazy Taxi, Shenmue). The cable works flawlessly when doing 15khz or 480i though and the setup is solid (definitely better than composite).

Has this happened to anyone before? Wondering if it could be some kind of issue with my Dreamcast (do all units support 480p), or maybe an issue with the RGC itself.

You can see some screenshots of the output on RT5X https://imgur.com/a/6b8kLCw

[Josh128]

Dreamcast SCART cables dont support VGA mode, normally. The "Packapunch" SCART cable is the only one I know of that does though. Does your cable say it does?

[bobrocks95]

Oh it's the Retro Access cable, you said it was Retro Gaming Cables.

Still RGBS on the 480p output with a sync combiner... Have you tested with a couple different games? Could be you got unlucky and pulled out one without 480p support to start with.

[NoAffinity]

Just a heads up for anyone having issues with RT5X and dejitter modded snes - firmware 3.71 works with the dejitter mod. Not sure if this was only an issue for me, but firmware 3.0 would not work with my dejitter modded snes jr. I undid the mod, and then it worked fine. After updating the RT5X, I tested with the mod restored, and the two are now working harmoniously.

[vol.2]

Just a heads up for anyone having issues with RT5X and dejitter modded snes - firmware 3.71 works with the dejitter mod. Not sure if this was only an issue for me, but firmware 3.0 would not work with my dejitter modded snes jr. I undid the mod, and then it worked fine. After updating the RT5X, I tested with the mod restored, and the two are now working harmoniously.

I thought the point of the dejitter mod was to make the SNES work better with upscalers. Why not just leave it out if it's not helping?

[fernan1234]

Dejitter mods were a mistake.

[BuckoA51]

Just a heads up for anyone having issues with RT5X and dejitter modded snes - firmware 3.71 works with the dejitter mod. Not sure if this was only an issue for me, but firmware 3.0 would not work with my dejitter modded snes jr. I undid the mod, and then it worked fine. After updating the RT5X, I tested with the mod restored, and the two are now working harmoniously.

Hmm that is quite odd, indeed it should help or have no effect at all, I can't see how dejittering it would make it /less/ compatible. The RT5x should only need a dejittered NES/SNES when using 1440p modes anyway, and only on a handful of fussier TVs.

[drbackhands]

Hello all! Way earlier in this thread, Parodius mentioned success with 24khz content via TINK-5x. I'm too new to DM, but has anyone else had similar success with that? I'm running a Sega Model 3 to my TINK-5x and it's not picking up a signal, and I know the board's good because I've run it to a CRT.

[NoAffinity]

Spoiler

Just a heads up for anyone having issues with RT5X and dejitter modded snes - firmware 3.71 works with the dejitter mod. Not sure if this was only an issue for me, but firmware 3.0 would not work with my dejitter modded snes jr. I undid the mod, and then it worked fine. After updating the RT5X, I tested with the mod restored, and the two are now working harmoniously.

I thought the point of the dejitter mod was to make the SNES work better with upscalers. Why not just leave it out if it's not helping?

Because the snes would not work with my ossc without being dejitter modded, which I was living with, but like having as much/full compatibility across my matrix as much as possible.

Spoiler

Just a heads up for anyone having issues with RT5X and dejitter modded snes - firmware 3.71 works with the dejitter mod. Not sure if this was only an issue for me, but firmware 3.0 would not work with my dejitter modded snes jr. I undid the mod, and then it worked fine. After updating the RT5X, I tested with the mod restored, and the two are now working harmoniously.

Hmm that is quite odd, indeed it should help or have no effect at all, I can't see how dejittering it would make it /less/ compatible. The RT5x should only need a dejittered NES/SNES when using 1440p modes anyway, and only on a handful of fussier TVs.

Well, I do most of my flat panel gaming in 1440p. I dont think it falls into the fussier category...just reporting my experiences which may be helpful to others.