RetroTINK 5x-Pro

[jamisonia]

I think the N64 is the epitome of you can't get blood from a stone. The only hope for N64 games are faithful and quality HD Releases, but I'm not holding my breath given how All Stars went.

[Josh128]

New firmware released!! Merry Christmas and happy holidays to you too Mike!

December 21st, 2021

Version 2.39 - Special Holiday Edition

https://www.retrotink.com/post/retrotin ... re-updates

[vol.2]

In my opinion, N64 is just such an ugly beast that there's only so much any scaler is going to be able to do, even with optimal timings.

i'm always saying. emulation is really the best way forward for the 64.

[Syntax]

Try native SVideo from the N64, I bet you like it more.

[Josh128]

Am I a total jackass or what? Installed the new FW, and I cant find my 5X remote, and it seems you cant get a menu at all with the new firmware unless you have the remote? The 5X still works, the input select button cycles through, but I have absolutely no options or menu available? Is this right or is my unit borked? Guess Ill have to go back to the old FW and make sure I still have a menu.

[vol.2]

idk, but in Mike's Quick notes on the blog page:

The menu system relies on the remote. The Top Left button calls up the OSD. Use the arrow keys to navigate/toggle through settings. Use the OK button to select an option. The Back button exits the OSD.

[vol.2]

Try native SVideo from the N64, I bet you like it more.

assuming that I'm displaying this on a flat panel, do you still think that? if i was playing on a real console using a CRT, i would tend to agree with you, but on a flat panel, i tend to prefer no blur filter and rgb blockiness.

[digitron]

Small request - rotate OSD for the Tate bois, thanks for the new firmware Mike!!

Do you have to load saved profile after each time the unit is powered off?

[Josh128]

Im an idiot, I figured out my 240p scanline question via 1080p I had above.

About the N64, I find S-Video and RGB to look identical in sharpness on 15KHz CRTs, RGB just has more vibrant colors.

I ordered another Tink 5X remote because apparently the one that came with my 5X just magically disappeared.

It must suck to hear everyone whine about little things when you spent so much time and effort reworking everything, but would it be possible to add support to be able to bring up and navigate the menu with the front panel buttons? Or at least still have something displayed when you hit menu on the 5X. The input button still works, you dont see whats selected on the screen but the led colors at least change each time you press it, representing a different input, but the other two buttons do absolutely nothing. It renders a 5X with no remote completely option-less.

[RocketBelt]

Anyone had any luck with sharp text using the N64 320 Sampling on the Retrotink 5X?

Here's a couple of photos I took of the text on the star select screen in Super Mario 64 (NTSC). You can see that the text smears and it almost looks like shadow next to the text. Generic 4:3 looks even more blurry.

IMGUR ALBUM

This is using:

• NUJ1 Nintendo 64 with an RGB amp (I think it's a 7314 or 7316)
  "Nintendo N64 RGB SCART cable for RGB modified NTSC console Sync on Luma" Bought from retrogamingcables.co.uk in 2017.

Retrotink 5X settings:

• N64 320 Sampling
  1080p (OVER)
  Interpolation: Sharp
  Video LPF: Light (The best looking one so far)

Same thing happens on other resolutions too.

If it's the 7314 board turn LPF off on the 5x as the 7314 already has a low pass filter. If it's the 7316, the low pass filter might be on or off on the board, you'd have to open it up and check. If the LPF on the 7316 is off, leave the LPF on the 5x on.
I have similar set up, same cable, except 7314 board and OSSC, and it looks a lot better than that. I use OSSC generic settings, line x3 and 6% scanlines. Can you try settings like that on the 5x?

[hypotc]

Thanks for the replies! Looks like deblur would help for text, but I swear I saw someone with an OSSC get no shadows on the SM64 star select screen just by adjusting phase. (obv there are more options for adjusting available there)

Here's a picture I took when I opened up the N64 now. I bought this console from an eBay seller a couple of years ago.
https://imgur.com/a/cx888up

Looks like it is a 7314 with built in LPF.

It's weird though, because in OoT the ammo counters shown on the C-buttons are really sharp, but the ones in the main menu are not and looks shifted. The "Return" text at the top is also really sharp, but the text on the "Save" and "Decide" are more blurry.

[Steven]

It's weird though, because in OoT the ammo counters shown on the C-buttons are really sharp, but the ones in the main menu are not and looks shifted. The "Return" text at the top is also really sharp, but the text on the "Save" and "Decide" are more blurry.

I have something very similar on my Saturn, with very obvious bleeding in some places but others are perfectly fine. It's more obvious at the sides of the screen than in the center.

[luisf50]

Hi guys, Does anyone know why after yesterday's update I can't set the optimal h.sampling? it only allows me 4:3 and 16:9 generic

This is mi configuration :


-

[Strider77]

I use to use the "Aperture Grille 2" setting on the previous firmware. I imaging I can tweek the "Aperture Grille 1" setting that's left in the new firmware. Anyone know what the setting for that would be?

[digitron]

Anyone having issues with the screen going blank in 1440p output mode only in the new firmware? Will work for a while then screen goes black. No issue in any of the 1080p output modes. Same 1440p config in previous firmware didn't do this.

Input: Sigma Supergun > Scart RGB Input > 4k LCD set to 4:3

RT5X - 1440p, H Sampling 4:3, Frame Lock, Vertical Filter = Sharp, LPF = Light, all other settings default.

[bobrocks95]

It's weird though, because in OoT the ammo counters shown on the C-buttons are really sharp, but the ones in the main menu are not and looks shifted. The "Return" text at the top is also really sharp, but the text on the "Save" and "Decide" are more blurry.

Don't remember the return/save one, but the ammo counters thing happens even on emulators. With an HDMI mod you still get visual noise in lots of places... Unfortunately N64 output is kind of like polishing a turd. I'd test anything weird you're seeing against an emulator to start.

[Renaissance2K]

Man, I don't think I've ever installed new firmware in anything so quickly. The updates are an absolute blast.

I was playing A Link to the Past today through the Analogue DAC using the Tink's SNES sampling mode. The screen would frequently glitch when changing screens, or if a big effect went off. I heard that the DAC uses some sort of out-of-spec sync that doesn't play nicely with the Tink-5X, even though it looks great on a display. I've seen some sync curl in the past with Analogue before, but I didn't realize it was an incompatibility with the two devices; I thought it was something else in my setup.

With the new firmware opening up all the fine-tuning options, is there something we can tweak there that would better handle the DAC?

[hypotc]

Man, I don't think I've ever installed new firmware in anything so quickly. The updates are an absolute blast.

I was playing A Link to the Past today through the Analogue DAC using the Tink's SNES sampling mode. The screen would frequently glitch when changing screens, or if a big effect went off. I heard that the DAC uses some sort of out-of-spec sync that doesn't play nicely with the Tink-5X, even though it looks great on a display. I've seen some sync curl in the past with Analogue before, but I didn't realize it was an incompatibility with the two devices; I thought it was something else in my setup.

With the new firmware opening up all the fine-tuning options, is there something we can tweak there that would better handle the DAC?

Maybe you can try adjusting the new SoG feature in the ADC settings on the Retrotink. Check 4:07 in this video: https://youtu.be/AZvEwGVYdRA?t=246

[Fudoh]

N64 manual phase detection settings on the new 5X FW can be seen here on video:
https://youtu.be/AZvEwGVYdRA?t=277

Looks exactly what's needed to cover the different N64 hardware revisions.

[hypotc]

N64 manual phase detection settings on the new 5X FW can be seen here on video:
https://youtu.be/AZvEwGVYdRA?t=277

Looks exactly what's needed to cover the different N64 hardware revisions.

I tried that, but the sharpest was the one the auto already decided to use, atleast when playing OoT.

[Fudoh]

I'll try it with my old RGB N64 (the one that was causing the same problems on the Framemeister) as soon as I can locate it.

[EnragedWhale]

Just catching up on Bob’s livestream, is the intention of the new Field Order option in the De-Interlacing menu to potentially fix the issue with Dreamcast 480p/480i scart cables that don’t combine sync properly such at the RGC one? Anyone tested it?

[WobblingPixels]

Just catching up on Bob’s livestream, is the intention of the new Field Order option in the De-Interlacing menu to potentially fix the issue with Dreamcast 480p/480i scart cables that don’t combine sync properly such at the RGC one? Anyone tested it?

yes its fixed:

https://twitter.com/WobblingP/status/14 ... 6859563010

[incrediblehark]

Just catching up on Bob’s livestream, is the intention of the new Field Order option in the De-Interlacing menu to potentially fix the issue with Dreamcast 480p/480i scart cables that don’t combine sync properly such at the RGC one? Anyone tested it?

yes its fixed:

https://twitter.com/WobblingP/status/14 ... 6859563010

Wow thats awesome! I was asking about this a little while back and didn't expect it to be fixed as Mike explained it was more of a hack of the cable makers. Also really happy to see the menu screen has been moved


Thanks again Mike for all of your hard work! Going to mess around with the new firmware ASAP!

[EnragedWhale]

Just catching up on Bob’s livestream, is the intention of the new Field Order option in the De-Interlacing menu to potentially fix the issue with Dreamcast 480p/480i scart cables that don’t combine sync properly such at the RGC one? Anyone tested it?

yes its fixed:

https://twitter.com/WobblingP/status/14 ... 6859563010

Man this thing just keeps getting better and better

[azmun]

This latest firmware seems to be able to convert 480i to 240p using a combination of
1)Bob deinterlacing
2)Bob offset

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6GFw-6ypLM
19:25

It's pretty groundbreaking development, specially for those 240p original source games converted to 480i using blurry bilinear interpolation/filtering. Works quite well with PS2 compilation games.

[Josh128]

Just catching up on Bob’s livestream, is the intention of the new Field Order option in the De-Interlacing menu to potentially fix the issue with Dreamcast 480p/480i scart cables that don’t combine sync properly such at the RGC one? Anyone tested it?

yes its fixed:

https://twitter.com/WobblingP/status/14 ... 6859563010

Man this thing just keeps getting better and better

Tell me about it. I found my remote and after reflashing twice, because the first time had the weird issue of a working menu, but only a solid green screen when a source was connected (any source), I started playing around with it. I've recently upgraded my ailing beloved 51" F4500 A series plasma with a gigantic 60" F5300B series plasma for a total cost of $150 to purchase and repair. Its got an AMAZING picture, superior input lag vs my F4500, full 1080p resolution and a unique pentile matrix subpixel composition (apparently to aid in power consumption/heat output).

My new dilemma was playing 480p games on it, because I LOATHE the look of 480p games fed natively on 1080p sets. With the previous 5X firmware, the only acceptable settings I could get was to line double 480p to 960 with the "1080p Under" setting and add scanlines. This, however, left fairly large black bars all around the image which bothered the hell out of me. I even popped the question of the best way to get authentic looking 480p scanlines on a 1080p set to Mike and Bob via superchat during the new firmware announcement stream. The only two ways I knew of were the 1080p Under (960p) or zooming the hell out of the vertical axis to 1440p to get those integer scanlines, which is possible with the new firmware but with that you are cropping out a LOT of visible image area from your picture. Mike mentioned the 960p with bars thing but Bob said he was playing around with some 480p video on the new firmware earlier and had some some setting that looked really good, but he couldnt recall what it was at the time.

So last night I was playing around with the new settings and first I nailed down some 4:3 settings for 240p that make my 60" 1080p set look EXACTLY like a gigantic Trinitron. It was way better than what I could achieve on the previous FW. So once I nailed that down I moved to 480p Gamecube and Wii stuff. I was able to do the token 960p and even the super zoomed in 1440p settings with perfect scanlines but neither sat very well with me. After some more playing around, I discovered a setting that basically allows for integer vertical scanlines to be used on 480p sources. Although it doesnt seem logical, it looks almost exactly like an HD CRT 480p image! Best part is, you can use 1080p fill to achieve this look and thus not deal with black bars at all in 16:9 mode or only side bars in 4:3 mode.

Colors might look a bit off in these images, the use of the masks in the 5X pro will throw off your color/brightness settings a bit and I only did a rough adjustment while messing around. The results to me are astounding though! Im very satisfied with the results here. Pics below.

Original Size: https://i.imgur.com/BzlRgJ8.jpg << Please right click and open in new tab for the full size as the visible thumbnail shown below does NOT do it justice!!



Original Size: https://i.imgur.com/1nlYyQP.jpg


Original Size: https://i.imgur.com/vMXBOkX.jpg


Original Size: https://i.imgur.com/TYUIo7A.jpg


Original Size: https://i.imgur.com/8LdeJcch.jpg


480p settings:


As for 240p, its pure perfection. Theres basically no way to tell this is not a top of the line Trinitron. Amazing.

Original Size: https://i.imgur.com/ECZciko.jpg

[strygo]

I was trying the latest firmware with Street Fighter Alpha on the PS1 using RGB. For some reason, it seemed to have difficulty locking to a particular phase. It would switch every now and then during game play. And then switching between each of the options manually, all of them caused artifacting in the power bars. Interestingly, bypass proved to be the best bet for that game (producing no artifacts).

One feature that would be helpful: if the alongside the auto detection it listed which of the options was selected. This could make diagnosis easier to see when it is jumping around.

Overall, the menu is by far the best of all the scalers I have. Powerful, yet not complicated.

[Nightzero]

Just wanted let people know about the PSP. As of now the PSP has screen tearing with the RT5X. If you stretch the image along the Y Axis past a certain point the issue occurs (basically trying to fill the TV). Sorry don't have exact numbers on hand. Also don't use Frame Lock as the top portion of the screen will have constant tearing while Triple Buffer does not (it comes and goes). Outside of that, the PSP looks great at least with the right scanline combos but not with the Smoothing filter.

Sounds like your TV USB ports might be doing something weird. I have an LED light strip plugged into my TV USB port and when I turn off my TV, the lights are supposed to turn off as well, which they usually do. However, every now and then, I will turn off my TV, the lights will turn off, but then a few minutes later, the lights will come back on again and won't stay off until I power cycle my TV. I have my 5X plugged into a little phone charger into my wall and it's never turned itself on. I'm willing to be your TV USB ports are the cause.

Guess that's it then! Would be nice if an option existed to not have it auto boot whenever there is power, as I guess I have a pretty common tv (Sony), so probably more people will experience this issue.
For now I guess I'll order one of those USB in line power switches.
Thanks

Just to confirm yes this is normal with Sony TVs. My RT5X has been doing it snice I've received it back in August.

[TooBeaucoup]

Just wanted let people know about the PSP. As of now the PSP has screen tearing with the RT5X. If you stretch the image along the Y Axis past a certain point the issue occurs (basically trying to fill the TV). Sorry don't have exact numbers on hand. Also don't use Frame Lock as the top portion of the screen will have constant tearing while Triple Buffer does not (it comes and goes). Outside of that, the PSP looks great at least with the right scanline combos but not with the Smoothing filter.

I spent a lot of time with different games and noticed that the screen tearing is very game dependent. I played quite a few games and didn't see any tearing and then saw it on others.