RetroTINK 5x-Pro

[Wariolicious]

Just received one and hooked it up with my PS2 slim through component and holy crap does it look great in 2560×1440 mode with slight scanlines. Am really blown away by the look, and gives a whole new life to PS2 games that used to look too dark or blurry!

[awe444]

how many people would it benefit from a solution requiring an obscure and expensive scaler vs. the developers actually treating the material correctly in the first place?

I agree that attention to output quality on the part of the game developers (and those managing the developers where applicable) is key. For emulated content on modern consoles it’ll always be all over the place and expectations should be low, but fortunately there are alternatives to play said emulated games, and the truly motivated will pursue MiSTer or a custom solution built with care— either of which can also work beautifully through the RT5X.

It’s with the unique, original indie games going for the retro look that the developers can really seize or miss an opportunity. RetroRGB interviewed the developer of Axiom Verge 2 on Switch, and in the interview the dev described how he put thought into the pixel resolution with respect to both the Switch screen and TV output. The game’s “240p” res scales 3x cleanly into the handheld’s 720p screen, while in docked mode (1080 out to the TV) it goes into a 4x-with-borders mode (“1080 Under” in RetroTink terms). That level of care in the design and presentation of a modern game is truly commendable and proves there is hope.

[headlesshobbs]

It really hadn't occurred to me at the time what I posted on the boards was coming off as insensitive, so unfortunately I have to apologize to members of the community, including Mike for coming across as anything demanding and sounding like I've taken what's being done here for granted. I gave myself a bit of a time out to clear my head and let things settle down.

I do have to say I am in clear disagreement with Mike on later console gen systems for a pretty good reason. Mike thinks HD gaming is a minority, yet we've been into this retro HD kick for over 20 years now spanning 'FOUR CONSOLE GENERATIONS' of titles being re-released or new titles brought to us by indies. That is a whole f***ing lot of games to be considered a minority and with new titles being released on next gen consoles all the time, just how far is this gap going to widen before it's realized we need something to make them truly look the way they're supposed to? That's why I've been experimenting with the ossc as I've been able to find points where it truly works, but that's the only development I know of that can keep the same output resolutions without downsampling and forcing me to go back to the crt route. My perspective on preservation is really about moving forward while crt's disappear and having a success at replacing them.

Also I'm not understanding why people misplace the importance or use of tv lines when it was made clear they've always been part of the process with every crt ever produced. I wanted vertical lines because it restores that screen effect significantly and with progress the different types of line filtering like Tink 5x has really takes the right steps in that direction. People wanted 800 - 1000 line count pvm's and bvm's. An lcd's horizontal resolution is 1920 pixels. 1920 divide 2 is 960 lines which is more then enough to re-create the crt field of effect. Using this on a full 1080p image saves from losing detail, but at the same token it's better then 1080i because I don't know how much 1080i impacts games that are typically 60khz, 60fps. If you don't think line count is important, check out one of Phonedork's PVM/BVM videos and the posts at the Retro Gaming Boards to see what you're missing out on. I managed to save quite few games with what I'm doing on my setup, but there still needs to be more done and I'm only running within the limits of a consumer hobbyist rather then anyone who can make hardware. But regardless I'll keep making an effort.

[Einzelherz]

Are we back to confusing TVL for pixel resolution again?

[magus90]

Hey Guys,

I am new to the 5x, switched over from a PVM. I was wondering if people wouldn't mind pointing me in the right direction for settings?

Particularly for the Gamecube with component cables (480p). And PS2 with component as well (480i).

Should GC be running 1080p Fill, under, or over? Same for ps2.

Thanks so much in advance,

[WobblingPixels]

Hey Guys,

I am new to the 5x, switched over from a PVM. I was wondering if people wouldn't mind pointing me in the right direction for settings?

Particularly for the Gamecube with component cables (480p). And PS2 with component as well (480i).

Should GC be running 1080p Fill, under, or over? Same for ps2.

Thanks so much in advance,

For PS2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xE9O9nB7Gs4

[neorichieb1971]

Does anyone have a recommendation for a 1440p monitor under £500 that looks the part for a retro only setup?
Would like total compatibility with the 5x
Would like rotatable stand
24-27"

Thanks.

[Josh128]

See if you can make room for an LG-32QN600-B. Im using one to type this. Fantastic for use with 5X Pro. Get perfect scanlines from 8 bit all the way to GC/DC/PS2/Xbox generation. $279.

[strayan]

Anyone have this bright blue line/noise problem with their RT5X?

https://imgur.com/a/CXrjXfi

Happens on my GCN with official component cables and also on my Wiidual with official component cables.

For some reason the noise/bright line running down the left does not appear on the swiss screen, only once a game is launched.

Only get the issue at 768p (native res of my plasma) and to a lesser degree 720p (I want to avoid 720p because my TV adds a terrible amount of overscan and processing if it detects CEA compliant timings).

Figured I could just use the mask feature but the latest fw dropped support for 768p unfortunately (which I can understand as most people have abandoned retro tvs in favour of 1080 and 4k displays).

[fernan1234]

Anyone have this bright blue line/noise problem with their RT5X?

https://imgur.com/a/CXrjXfi

Is this with the game at 480p? I wonder if you also get that blue line when the game is at 480i.

[kitty666cats]

I forget - can the RT5X also do 480i -> 240p? Or strictly downscaling from progressive resolutions?

[Guspaz]

Yes. If you have a game that is 240p but is output as 480i, you can set the deinterlacer to "bob" and then set the "bob offset" appropriately to make the two fields line up (typically -1), which reconstructs the original 240p signal in a 480p image, undoing the interlacing. Good for 240p retro game collections that only output 480i. Or for a true 480i source, use motion adaptive deinterlacing to get a stable 480p image. Then set the RT5X output resolution to 240p, which presumably you're going to feed into a Portta to convert to analog for a CRT. I did the testing for this on my C1, which has no problem with 240p HDMI, but it's pretty pointless to do on the C1.

Another common thing people like to do is to downscale the image before it gets upscaled. This is useful for 240p content sent as 480p (use a 1/2 prescale) or 240p content sent as 720p (like the Switch virtual console or Nintendo classic consoles, use a 1/3 prescale) or even 360p games sent as 720p (use 1/2 prescale). This potentially increases the sharpness but also allows you to have correctly aligned 240p or 360p scanlines on your 480p or 720p input signal.

[strayan]

Anyone have this bright blue line/noise problem with their RT5X?

https://imgur.com/a/CXrjXfi

Is this with the game at 480p? I wonder if you also get that blue line when the game is at 480i.

Now that I have tested it, yes, there is no noise when running 480i, only 480p.

[fernan1234]

Now that I have tested it, yes, there is no noise when running 480i, only 480p.

That's what I suspected, as I vaguely recall that some GC/Wii games had this sort of artifacts when set to 480p, even when displayed on a CRT (where most likely it would be out if view in the overscan area). Unless it's something that you only started seeing after a RT firmware upgrade, it must be part of how these games work when set to progressive. You can try to hide it with the RT's cropping settings. Or run them in 480i instead.

[strayan]

The noise only appears when the rt5x is set to output 768 or 720p though.

[gperezse]

Hi All,

I love my Retrotink 5X, but I’m having an issue with my virtual tap modded virtual boy. Last year I hooked up my virtual boy to the rt5x using a custom rgb-scart cable from RetroAccess (NESRGB pinout). I was able to get video with vertical jitter, but I got rid of the jitter by messing with the rt5x settings. It worked great, except I didn’t have audio because I’m a dummy and neglected to add 3.5 audio to my order when I commissioned my cable. So, I ate the loss and bought a new cable.

About 2 weeks ago, after purchasing my second cable, but before receiving it, I updated my rt5x’s firmware. I did not test my virtual boy after updating the rt5x firmware. Yesterday my second cable arrived. I hooked it up, and now I get video and audio (yay!). Vertical jitter was still present, but I figured I could just mess with the rt5x settings to make it go away.

Here’s the problem: I can’t make the jitter go away now. There’s jitter when using my new cable AND when using my old cable. The rt5x settings menu has completely changed, and because I’m a tech dummy, I don’t know which setting I adjusted to address the problem before I updated the firmware. I *think* it was the v-sync, but the only options are triple-buffer and framelock (which does not seem to be compatible with my LG CX). It’s possible that the console or both cables are to blame, but I want to rule-out the rt5x settings before I start looking into those possibilities.

Any help would be appreciated.

[BuckoA51]

My results with the 5x have been stunning with 240p sources and really great with 480i, but I can't figure out how to get 480p to look good at all. Right now it looks a blurry mess with random jittery pixels. Can anyone recommend me some settings? I'm just after generic 480p to either 1080p or 1200p that looks something like OSSC with 2x mode and upsample 2x on. FW 2.39.

[TooBeaucoup]

My results with the 5x have been stunning with 240p sources and really great with 480i, but I can't figure out how to get 480p to look good at all. Right now it looks a blurry mess with random jittery pixels. Can anyone recommend me some settings? I'm just after generic 480p to either 1080p or 1200p that looks something like OSSC with 2x mode and upsample 2x on. FW 2.39.

Which consoles are looking blurry at 480p?

[BuckoA51]

I've tried Wii and Switch so far.

[Guspaz]

If there's noise, enable EDTV LPF. Set the vertical scaling to sharp. Try optimal sampling. If the optimal sampling can't lock on, try experimenting with manual phase control. Try 1080p under for an integer 2x scale. Or 1440p output for 3x.

[Josh128]

For GC/DC/PS2/XBox 480p or 480i to a 1080p display, this will get a near-perfect "Tate" 480p CRT look with no cropping:



This will get integer scaled 480p CRT look to a 1080p display (2x /960p in 1080p frame with black borders):

[BuckoA51]

Ah ok I see, certain presets aren't available at certain output resolutions. It is disappointing for instance that I'm stuck in 4:3 when doing a 480p to 1600x1200 scale.

Scanlines don't work at all for 480p either which is a shame, though maybe that'll come in a firmware update. 240p and VGA CRT type scanlines like the OSSC does for 480p sources would be great.

[Josh128]

Scanlines do indeed work for 480p sources. My second set of settings above have perfect scanlines for a 480p source outputting to 1080p.

Below are images of perfect scanlines for a 480p source outputting to 1440p.

https://i.imgur.com/9fIrgfg.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/AhUCn8D.jpg


The tate CRT settings above also give perfectly spaced vertical scanlines for 480p sources outputting to 1080p.

https://imgur.com/8LdeJcc

[BuckoA51]

Thanks I'll give those a try! It looks like I'm better off doing 480p to 1080p since my panel won't support 1440p. Apparently 1200p is 1920 x 1200 which is even stranger then why my TV double squashes it and won't do 16:9 anamorphic.

[BuckoA51]

So my preferred settings for Wii 480p anamorphic widescreen games are:-

Output res - 1080p (fill)
Scaling/Cropping - H position -4 (or whatever suits your display)
Interpolation - Vertical filter medium
Horizontal Sampling - Generic 16:9
Post Processing - All off

Video ADC - SDTV LPF Medium
EDTV LPF - OFF (switch this off, it adds noise in darker areas)
HDMI - V-Sync - Frame lock

This results in a very pleasing scale that fills the screen well and doesn't crop out much (few lines left and right it seems)

PIC-2022_03_21_17_39_42 by videogameperfection, on Flickr

However, scanlines etc cannot be used at all, they just don't line up (I think this is the same issue Josh128 ran into on page 54).

This is clearly a better scale than the OSSCs 480p x 2 mode, and by and large the thin scanlines on that were to mask the over sharp edges that the hard line double did, although they did also look kind of cool too especially at a distance reminded me of a widescreen CRT monitor.

I'm using a modded Wii console with HDMI output, HD Fury 2 adapter and Arcadeforge UMSA. LG C9 Television.

[Josh128]

^^

Yes, you can only get perfect scanlines in the "1080p Under" mode but that will get you black borders.


In the settings that you have just posted, did you try adding the "Grille-Bright" mask setting to see how that looks? On my pentile-matrix 1080p plasma it gives really pleasing, perfectly spaced vertical (like a Tate'd CRT) scanlines, without requiring any cropping. You may have to default your scaling/cropping setting though. Although I would rather perfect horizontal scanlines, this is the next best thing and looks very authentic on my display.

[subcons]

Trying to source a cable for Dreamcast and all the reputable online shops are currently out of stock. I contacted an eBay seller in Poland about this RGB SCART cable to verify it wouldn't potentially damage my RetroTINK. He responded that he "is using clean sync directly from console and it is 75 Ohm." He then suggested this cable instead, which he also makes, in order to get 480p for a cleaner picture.

Can anyone verify, or by chance has anyone used this seller's cables in their setup and can vouch for their quality?

[BuckoA51]

I know his Saturn cables are pretty good, high quality builds so I'd think you were pretty safe there.

[subcons]

I know his Saturn cables are pretty good, high quality builds so I'd think you were pretty safe there.

Sounds good; puts me at ease ordering from him. Thanks for the info.

[kitty666cats]

His cables are great - I have one of his PS1+PS2 sync on luma cables & the audio/video is flawless. I believe I’ve heard that his 15+31kHz Dreamcast cable has better compatibility than the RGC UK one (I’ve heard that theirs has some issues with some device, I forget if it was RT5X OSSC or something else) - not sure how different the circuit is, but it’s definitely different if that’s the case.