M2 Toaplan collection

[jehu]

Ah, thanks Steven - that seems to be it.

I experimented a bit myself after reading your post, and it seems to work like this:

At 7 bombs, difficulty increases until 15 - and then you get hooked up to the mega-points pipeline.
At 6 bombs, difficulty drops down to standard Arcade difficulty - and no more points for you.
At 5 or fewer bombs, difficulty drops straight to 0 - and you're stuck in depressingly easy purgatory until you can pick up another bomb or two.

My first impression is that it would be better if they didn't penalize you for offensive bombing. But that's because I'm a bit salty about having to relearn boss takedowns. Though I suppose it means for 'Super Easy' score play, you actually have to fight a few more bosses the old-fashioned way with wicked fast bullets. And there's nothing 'super easy' about that...

[Steven]

Yeah, it's something like that. I haven't played it in a while, as I've found it difficult to tear myself away from Teki-Paki recently. Super easy is almost like an arranged mode. I forget how it works in Tiger-Heli, though it still gives you the faster movement speed (the difference is much greater in Tiger-Heli than Kyuukyoku Tiger), autobomb, and smaller hurtbox.

[Sumez]

I don't know if it was smart to try to accommodate high-level score play and braindead easy mode for beginners into one 'arrange' - but it's an interesting experiment.

It's an interesting experiment. But not interesting enough to varrant that same approach for every single M2 Toaplan release IMO. Feels like a bit of a missed opportunity for what could have been a genuine arrange or "black label" kind of mode.

[Steven]

I don't know if it was smart to try to accommodate high-level score play and braindead easy mode for beginners into one 'arrange' - but it's an interesting experiment.

It's an interesting experiment. But not interesting enough to varrant that same approach for every single M2 Toaplan release IMO. Feels like a bit of a missed opportunity for what could have been a genuine arrange or "black label" kind of mode.

The lack of an actual arrange mode is one of the disappointing aspects of Toaplan Arcade Garage, but perhaps the most disappointing aspect is that the only audio is the arcade audio, which is in mono. Meanwhile, Uemura, who composed many of these tracks, is playing them live with his new band (and yes, I am ABSOLUTELY going to his show in May!), so there are newly arranged versions of many of them, and ShotTriggers Garegga got a new stereo soundtrack. That one might have been easier for them to do since Namiki is the sound dude at M2. At least, he was at the time of Garegga Rev.2016, as his Twitter thingy says he's freelance, so I'm not sure what's up with him right now, but yeah.

Anyway, I'd like to see some new soundtracks or actual arrange modes for these. Arcade Tatsujin with the PC Engine music would be awesome, and so would something like having Uemura's band do arranged soundtracks for these releases. The games themselves are excellent and I'm glad that they are getting rereleased at all after decades of Toaplan being in limbo, but there are a lot of missed opportunities here.

[MJR]

I've always loved Tiger Heli, for some reason, the controls and playability has always been just spot-on for me. K K Tiger I also love just as much, for reasons that would take a whole essay to explain. Funnily enough, I didn't realize back in the day that they were made by same people who did Truxton

I did try the super easy modes, but.. they were too easy for me. I got bored. I do appreciate having those modes in, though.
I think both Tiger Heli and KK Tiger prove that it takes much more than you can realize on the surface to make shmup feel just "right". The simpler it appears, the harder it is to get "right".

[Sumez]

Yeah, I really think Hishouzame is a masterclass in this type of design. When the ship's movement speed is determined with such precision that altering it even slightly in either direction would change the entire game completely, you know you're dealing with tight game design.

I also do need to return to K.Tiger some time and try to go for the 1-ALL, it's just a daunting game.

[jehu]

It's an interesting experiment. But not interesting enough to varrant that same approach for every single M2 Toaplan release IMO. Feels like a bit of a missed opportunity for what could have been a genuine arrange or "black label" kind of mode.

I'd like to see some new soundtracks or actual arrange modes for these. [...] The games themselves are excellent and I'm glad that they are getting rereleased at all after decades of Toaplan being in limbo, but there are a lot of missed opportunities here.

As much as I absolutely love these Toaplan Garage releases, I think it's clear this first 'Tiger' collection was made to be an easily repeatable architecture to churn out these games at an accelerated pace. The gadgets are basically fixed now, and M2 can get by with a few tweaks here and there. And they don't seem especially keen to chase down particular game / music licenses or develop emulation for more obscure platforms - would be lovely to have the Marty and X68K releases, or at least their arranged OSTs. Plus, the Super Easy mode doubling as a score play 'arrange' couldn't be easier to replicate.

I don't mean this as some kind of damning criticism either. The releases themselves are phenomenal for what they are, and I don't think it's in most of our community's best interest to have M2's time and resources fully tied up in Toaplan for the next several years (though personally, I really wouldn't mind). All I mean to say is that they fall short of M2's standard on, say, Garegga or Ketsui. But that seems to be consensus, so I doubt I'm saying anything new here.

[Steven]

As much as I absolutely love these Toaplan Garage releases, I think it's clear this first 'Tiger' collection was made to be an easily repeatable architecture to churn out these games at an accelerated pace. The gadgets are basically fixed now, and M2 can get by with a few tweaks here and there. And they don't seem especially keen to chase down particular game / music licenses or develop emulation for more obscure platforms - would be lovely to have the Marty and X68K releases, or at least their arranged OSTs. Plus, the Super Easy mode doubling as a score play 'arrange' couldn't be easier to replicate.

I don't mean this as some kind of damning criticism either. The releases themselves are phenomenal for what they are, and I don't think it's in most of our community's best interest to have M2's time and resources fully tied up in Toaplan for the next several years (though personally, I really wouldn't mind). All I mean to say is that they fall short of M2's standard on, say, Garegga or Ketsui. But that seems to be consensus, so I doubt I'm saying anything new here.

Yeah, it does seem that they set this up this way so they can do that. These are still the definitive releases of all of these games, like with all ShotTriggers releases, but compared to something like Garegga, which has a new arranged mode (Premium), a new super easy mode, the original music, the Saturn music, remastered stereo original music done by the same dude who did the original music, and a brand new soundtrack, it's like what's up with Toaplan Arcade Garage in comparison?

Still, I'm not complaining. Toaplan's games are awesome and I think this is the first time that the majority of them have gotten arcade-perfect home versions aside from a few outliers like MD Snow Bros, which I guess is better than the arcade version anyway. I am very much looking forward to seeing if Same! Same! Same! custom mode can be made to basically play like MD Same!. MD Same! with the full screen height and arcade-perfect graphics and sound would be awesome, so hopefully it can essentially be created in the custom mode. They did do a damn fine job with the audio on MD Same! as it is, though.

Anyway, while I am here, what settings are generally used for Twin Cobra and 2P Kyuukyoku Tiger's extend settings? It defaults to extend at 100,000 in this collection for some reason. I checked the default DIP switch settings online, but the most useful thing I found was this, which suggests no score extends is the default: https://www.arcade-museum.com/dipswitch ... 10231.html

[jehu]

I am very much looking forward to seeing if Same! Same! Same! custom mode can be made to basically play like MD Same!. MD Same! with the full screen height and arcade-perfect graphics and sound would be awesome, so hopefully it can essentially be created in the custom mode. They did do a damn fine job with the audio on MD Same! as it is, though.

If you take the time to figure out a good 'Custom' setup to make Same! like MD, do me a huge favor and post your settings here.

[Steven]

I am very much looking forward to seeing if Same! Same! Same! custom mode can be made to basically play like MD Same!. MD Same! with the full screen height and arcade-perfect graphics and sound would be awesome, so hopefully it can essentially be created in the custom mode. They did do a damn fine job with the audio on MD Same! as it is, though.

If you take the time to figure out a good 'Custom' setup to make Same! like MD, do me a huge favor and post your settings here.

I definitely will. I have been playing the Retro-Bit release recently and I definitely like it. The original Japanese 1P arcade version beat my ass hard when I played it for the first time at Mikado a while ago. It also ate my coin without giving me a credit and I had to call the staff dude to fix it...

[NuclearPotato]

Anyway, while I am here, what settings are generally used for Twin Cobra and 2P Kyuukyoku Tiger's extend settings? It defaults to extend at 100,000 in this collection for some reason. I checked the default DIP switch settings online, but the most useful thing I found was this, which suggests no score extends is the default: https://www.arcade-museum.com/dipswitch ... 10231.html

Per this post from earlier in the thread:

Can anyone confirm the original US default dip switch settings for Twin Cobra? Was it really defaulted to 100,000 Only for score extends? It's really odd that KKT defaults to 70,000/200,000 Every instead.

I'm not certain about the US version but I can tell you the World version defaults were 50,000/150,000 every

So I've gotten some more information on this, apparently 50,000/150,000 every is the default setting but 100,000 only is the setting recommended by Romstar

[Steven]

Per this post from earlier in the thread:

Tasty. Thanks. That's half of it. I'm assuming that 2P Kyuukyoku Tiger is the same as Twin Cobra, then?

[Rastan78]

M2 put up a new trailer showing differences between super easy and arcade modes on the Same! collection.

Autobomb, quite noticable reduction to bullet speed etc.

https://youtu.be/8fhwCjHZxLU

[OldSkoolShmuper]

Dumb question cause I haven't been following these Toaplan collection releases -- When will we be able to purchase these domestically in NA for Switch and PS4 on eShop/PSN?

[Steven]

Dumb question cause I haven't been following these Toaplan collection releases -- When will we be able to purchase these domestically in NA for Switch and PS4 on eShop/PSN?

Probably never.

[OldSkoolShmuper]

Dumb question cause I haven't been following these Toaplan collection releases -- When will we be able to purchase these domestically in NA for Switch and PS4 on eShop/PSN?

Probably never.

ah crap, okay.

[Steven]

Dumb question cause I haven't been following these Toaplan collection releases -- When will we be able to purchase these domestically in NA for Switch and PS4 on eShop/PSN?

Probably never.

ah crap, okay.

Yeah, I think they stopped releasing ShotTriggers stuff outside of Japan entirely.

[Sumez]

Don't worry about it. You can order these from Amazon Japan and have them within a couple of days, the shipping speed is insane.

And if you're more patient you can get it slightly cheaper from Play-Asia, but you won't get the (probably) sweet-ass bonus cover for Wardner

[Steven]

Don't worry about it. You can order these from Amazon Japan and have them within a couple of days, the shipping speed is insane.

And if you're more patient you can get it slightly cheaper from Play-Asia, but you won't get the (probably) sweet-ass bonus cover for Wardner

lol I check the website basically every other day or so to see if they put up the final version of the Hishou Same/Wardner another jacket... which I just realized is a really awkward wasei-eigo term, although I'd never really thought about it before.

They also still seem to have the book for Kyuukyoku Tiger-Heli's first edition copies if you order the versions with the Amazon bonus cover. I just ordered the PS4 version in January and the Switch version at the end of February, both with the Amazon covers, and I got a copy of the book with both orders, so now I have 2 of it. I should probably read that book eventually... It's much cheaper to buy the regular version without the bonus cover, though.

[XtraSmiley]

Don't worry about it. You can order these from Amazon Japan and have them within a couple of days, the shipping speed is insane.

And if you're more patient you can get it slightly cheaper from Play-Asia, but you won't get the (probably) sweet-ass bonus cover for Wardner

Yeah but Play Asia shipping is now $5, while Amazon has raised theirs to $30.... WTF?

I even joined Amazon Prime in Japan, but free shipping doesn't extend outside of Japan.

I guess I'll have to pass on this cover.

[Sumez]

$5 is too much for shipping now? I can't think of any stores anywhere that'll charge less than that. In fact I struggle to think of any that even do it that cheap.

[heli]

play-asia is dubious shop, they sell ketsui for €127,-
And all games are more expensive then elsewhere.
+ they change prices while in cart, criminals.
Tell me what game is cheaper in play-asia ?

amazon-prime is a total ripoff also.
Will pay dollars more for no amazon or play asia.

I am going to order from cdjapan next time i think.

[XtraSmiley]

$5 is too much for shipping now? I can't think of any stores anywhere that'll charge less than that. In fact I struggle to think of any that even do it that cheap.

That's my point. Play Asia has very inexpensive shipping, so with the slightly more expensive game price, total price is MUCH lower than Amazon because of Amazon's very high shipping.

The problem is, you can't get that cool extra cover from Play Asia.

[Koa Zo]

$5 is too much for shipping now? I can't think of any stores anywhere that'll charge less than that. In fact I struggle to think of any that even do it that cheap.

That's my point. Play Asia has very inexpensive shipping, so with the slightly more expensive game price, total price is MUCH lower than Amazon because of Amazon's very high shipping.

The problem is, you can't get that cool extra cover from Play Asia.

Combined shipping with Amazon Japan can make buying from them quite economical. After the initial charge, each additional game or music CD (or other item of similar weight) is only about $1 extra (up to a certain weight, then it can jump significantly).
Today I ordered Toaplan Arcade Garage Kyukyoku Tiger Heli along with 6 music CDs, the shipping to USA was ￥2,699 (roughly $19.85). And it will be here in a couple days. That's an incredible bargain.
I've had Amazon Japan shipments arrive less than 48 hours after I placed the order. I can't imagine how they're not losing money on shipping costs.
PlayAsia shipped Trigger Witch to me on March 2, and I have no idea where that package is or when it will arrive.
Overall I would rather patronize PlayAsia as they've been a robust core supplier of videogame-centric goods for quite a while, but Amazon has been getting my money lately.

Curiously PS4 Tiger Heli regular edition is out of stock at Amazon Japan with a "Ships in 5-10 days" status. eBay prices are already a bit inflated. It was likely a small print run. I wonder if it's nearly sold-out already.

[seattlexc]

Sorry if this has been posted recently, but can someone tell me the difference between the two options available on Amazon. There's a version for 7,480 yen and one for 6,118. I'd like to buy 3 copies for me and two friends (we used to have a Sky Shark arcade cabinet in our college house!), maybe I'll get the nice one for me if it comes with something worthwhile. Im also hoping i can save on shipping by buying multiple copies from Amazon.Thanks and long live M2.

[Steven]

Sorry if this has been posted recently, but can someone tell me the difference between the two options available on Amazon. There's a version for 7,480 yen and one for 6,118. I'd like to buy 3 copies for me and two friends (we used to have a Sky Shark arcade cabinet in our college house!), maybe I'll get the nice one for me if it comes with something worthwhile. Im also hoping i can save on shipping by buying multiple copies from Amazon.Thanks and long live M2.

More expensive one gets you the Amazon-exclusive extra box art. The one for Get Star for Kyuukyoku Tiger-Heli is pretty badass, so maybe the new one for Wardner will be as well.

The cheaper one is the same thing but without the extra box art.

[seattlexc]

The cheaper one is the same thing but without the extra box art.

Awesome, thank you for the info! Looks like it's only a $10 or so difference between the two versions, not too bad.

[EmperorIng]

Apparently Same!Same!Same! 's SuperEasy mode has a hidden arrange, similar to Kyuukyoku Tiger. Max out the bomb stock and you get points per-tick, but the rank/difficulty is locked at the equivalent of loop 16. Uhhh, good luck keeping that going, especially with autobomb thrown into the mix.

[heli]

Only pros can play easy mode

[XtraSmiley]

$5 is too much for shipping now? I can't think of any stores anywhere that'll charge less than that. In fact I struggle to think of any that even do it that cheap.

That's my point. Play Asia has very inexpensive shipping, so with the slightly more expensive game price, total price is MUCH lower than Amazon because of Amazon's very high shipping.

The problem is, you can't get that cool extra cover from Play Asia.

Combined shipping with Amazon Japan can make buying from them quite economical. After the initial charge, each additional game or music CD (or other item of similar weight) is only about $1 extra (up to a certain weight, then it can jump significantly).
Today I ordered Toaplan Arcade Garage Kyukyoku Tiger Heli along with 6 music CDs, the shipping to USA was ￥2,699 (roughly $19.85). And it will be here in a couple days. That's an incredible bargain.
I've had Amazon Japan shipments arrive less than 48 hours after I placed the order. I can't imagine how they're not losing money on shipping costs.
PlayAsia shipped Trigger Witch to me on March 2, and I have no idea where that package is or when it will arrive.
Overall I would rather patronize PlayAsia as they've been a robust core supplier of videogame-centric goods for quite a while, but Amazon has been getting my money lately.

Curiously PS4 Tiger Heli regular edition is out of stock at Amazon Japan with a "Ships in 5-10 days" status. eBay prices are already a bit inflated. It was likely a small print run. I wonder if it's nearly sold-out already.

That was my experience before, but something changed at Amazon an now it's $30 additional per game. So weird.