M2 Toaplan collection

[Sumez]

That's a tall order

[XtraSmiley]

With fake ROM chips: https://www.suruga-ya.jp/product/detail/180904607
I'm still not sure which ones you're referring to.
Is it the row of mask roms at the top?
Difficult to see on these pics with the low resolution, have you seen the actual board in their shop?

Or are you talking about the 2 eproms that have a replacement label?
The chips with the Mitsubishi labels are most likely fakes. Here is another one that they have, this time with a set of both Fire Shark ROMs and 2P Same! ROMs as an extra. https://www.suruga-ya.jp/product/detail/180904637

I am not an expert on Toaplan boards, but I know someone who is, so while I can check to see what he says, I can pretty much guarantee that he'll say these are fakes.

Here is a real Same!: https://www.suruga-ya.jp/product/detail/180000853
Yeah, check out that price. Significantly more expensive than either of these Tatsujin Ou boards, and that's for just the board itself.

https://www.suruga-ya.jp/product/detail/180902513
https://www.suruga-ya.jp/product/detail/180000780

Those are not "fake ROM" chips, those are EPROMs, which are re-writeable. What usually happens is they can go bad or the game code can be updated and you can burn a new version of the game.

The PCB is the real deal. I thought you meant a conversion with the mask ROMs being replacements.

As far as price goes, there are people who pay more for original ERPOM stickers and want things like that out of the factory. I won't judge that one way or the other, but will agree people pay more for the factory stickers.

[BulletMagnet]

Seems the release date for Bitwave's the first batch of Toaplan arcade titles is Valentine's Day.

[Steven]

With fake ROM chips: https://www.suruga-ya.jp/product/detail/180904607
I'm still not sure which ones you're referring to.
Is it the row of mask roms at the top?
Difficult to see on these pics with the low resolution, have you seen the actual board in their shop?

Or are you talking about the 2 eproms that have a replacement label?
The chips with the Mitsubishi labels are most likely fakes. Here is another one that they have, this time with a set of both Fire Shark ROMs and 2P Same! ROMs as an extra. https://www.suruga-ya.jp/product/detail/180904637

I am not an expert on Toaplan boards, but I know someone who is, so while I can check to see what he says, I can pretty much guarantee that he'll say these are fakes.

Here is a real Same!: https://www.suruga-ya.jp/product/detail/180000853
Yeah, check out that price. Significantly more expensive than either of these Tatsujin Ou boards, and that's for just the board itself.

https://www.suruga-ya.jp/product/detail/180902513
https://www.suruga-ya.jp/product/detail/180000780

Those are not "fake ROM" chips, those are EPROMs, which are re-writeable. What usually happens is they can go bad or the game code can be updated and you can burn a new version of the game.

The PCB is the real deal. I thought you meant a conversion with the mask ROMs being replacements.

As far as price goes, there are people who pay more for original ERPOM stickers and want things like that out of the factory. I won't judge that one way or the other, but will agree people pay more for the factory stickers.

That's not how it comes from the factory, so unless this was done officially by Toaplan, it's basically a bootleg. I sent these URLs over to my friend, who is the director of the Toaplan documentary, to take a look at. He's basically the world's leading expert on Toaplan now, so if he says they are fake, they are fake.

Hopefully M2 will release the next Toaplan Arcade Garage Volumes more frequently from next year on.

lol I wish, but I highly doubt it.

[hamfighterx]

Of course, I love all Toaplan games, even Batsugun

Some grade A snark there, I love it. Also, I voted for Batsugun

I fully expect the Bitwave releases to be on par with M2's.

I hope you're right, and they have said the right things and given some reason for optimism... but I'll wait and see how these releases actually turn out before assuming they'll match the gold standard of M2. (also: ewww PC versions gross)

Hopefully M2 will release the next Toaplan Arcade Garage Volumes more frequently from next year on.

Would be nice, but M2 has been nothing if not consistent in their relatively slow pace at putting out ShotTriggers/TAG releases. In 7 years from 2016 to 2022, they've done 8 releases - one each year in every year except for 2017 having two. Sure would be nice to see them go a little faster though, and maybe even mix in some non-Toaplan ShotTriggers games.

I'm curious about the Data East games they announced in September 2020 as coming to ShotTriggers and then haven't really heard a peep since. Wild, wild speculation here, but I'll put that on my bingo card as a possibility for the surprise announcement.

[Steven]

Of course, I love all Toaplan games, even Batsugun

Some grade A snark there, I love it. Also, I voted for Batsugun

Noooooooooooo~

Batsugun I feel lacks the super tight stage design and enemy placement of the Uemura/Yuge games, and it has that godawful stage 4 boss. I don't think it's a bad game, but in comparison to the rest, it's definitely lacking in overall quality. My opinion of any game almost always increases as I play it more, but this is how I feel about Batsugun right now having played it several times.

Also, it seems that I played these games a lot this year as they both showed up on both my Switch and PS4 end-of-year things for games played the most:

Spoiler

I believe Hishou Same! Same! Same! takes the top spot overall, as combining my playtimes between PS4 and Switch may put it just barely over Shin Megami Tensei V, but I'd have to check again, which I am too lazy to do.

[hamfighterx]

Also, it seems that I played these games a lot this year as they both showed up on both my Switch and PS4 end-of-year things for games played the most

Hehe, Hishou S!S!S! made my PS4 list at #5. But I also played on both PS4 and Switch, so mine would have been similar to yours in that combined playtime would have bumped it up a bit - at least enough to overtake my #3 (Guilty Gear Strive) and #4 (Sekiro) spots.

Already assuming that Toaplan Arcade Garage vol.3 will make an appearance on my 2023 list.

[XtraSmiley]

That's not how it comes from the factory, so unless this was done officially by Toaplan, it's basically a bootleg. I sent these URLs over to my friend, who is the director of the Toaplan documentary, to take a look at. He's basically the world's leading expert on Toaplan now, so if he says they are fake, they are fake.

OK dude, slow your roll. Just because you're now the forums #1 SUPER FAN and know Joseph doesn't really mean what you think it means.

In the PCB collecting world, words like bootleg, fake, and conversion have established meanings.

You can believe what you like as far as "worlds leading expert," but to make your rolodex even fancier, I'm XtraSmiley, now you know me, and now you know the person who has invested the largest sum of money in the Toaplan documentary, now I'M the worlds leading expert! LOL

[Steven]

That's not how it comes from the factory, so unless this was done officially by Toaplan, it's basically a bootleg. I sent these URLs over to my friend, who is the director of the Toaplan documentary, to take a look at. He's basically the world's leading expert on Toaplan now, so if he says they are fake, they are fake.

OK dude, slow your roll. Just because you're now the forums #1 SUPER FAN and know Joseph doesn't really mean what you think it means.

In the PCB collecting world, words like bootleg, fake, and conversion have established meanings.

You can believe what you like as far as "worlds leading expert," but to make your rolodex even fancier, I'm XtraSmiley, now you know me, and now you know the person who has invested the largest sum of money in the Toaplan documentary, now I'M the worlds leading expert! LOL

Hell yeah, now we're getting to stuff that I am not allowed talk about! Have we met in real life? I don't think so, but there is a possibility, and if we have, then that's very interesting... I ask because I met a cool dude and then later found out that he donated an obscene amount of money to the Kickstarter or something. Anyway, thank you for your generous donation; I would have been extremely sad if this did not get funded and I am glad that it did. Please look forward to the documentary. Trust me, it's going to be awesome. I think we should drop this here, though, before we start to make ourselves look like idiots. Sorry for the trouble or whatever. I have almost talked too much, though, so I will stop; I will refrain from discussing anything related to the documentary at all until its release.

Also, it seems that I played these games a lot this year as they both showed up on both my Switch and PS4 end-of-year things for games played the most

Hehe, Hishou S!S!S! made my PS4 list at #5. But I also played on both PS4 and Switch, so mine would have been similar to yours in that combined playtime would have bumped it up a bit - at least enough to overtake my #3 (Guilty Gear Strive) and #4 (Sekiro) spots.

Already assuming that Toaplan Arcade Garage vol.3 will make an appearance on my 2023 list.

My playtime on Hishou Same! Same! Same! will probably drop significantly now that I have a Hishouzame board, but maybe not since my Astro City is in a room without air conditioning and it gets pretty cold in there in the winter. Nothing like your hands and feet starting to freeze solid while you're trying to play your game.

[XtraSmiley]

That's not how it comes from the factory, so unless this was done officially by Toaplan, it's basically a bootleg. I sent these URLs over to my friend, who is the director of the Toaplan documentary, to take a look at. He's basically the world's leading expert on Toaplan now, so if he says they are fake, they are fake.

OK dude, slow your roll. Just because you're now the forums #1 SUPER FAN and know Joseph doesn't really mean what you think it means.

In the PCB collecting world, words like bootleg, fake, and conversion have established meanings.

You can believe what you like as far as "worlds leading expert," but to make your rolodex even fancier, I'm XtraSmiley, now you know me, and now you know the person who has invested the largest sum of money in the Toaplan documentary, now I'M the worlds leading expert! LOL

Hell yeah, now we're getting to stuff that I am not allowed talk about! Have we met in real life? I don't think so, but there is a possibility, and if we have, then that's very interesting... I ask because I met a cool dude and then later found out that he donated an obscene amount of money to the Kickstarter or something. Anyway, thank you for your generous donation; I would have been extremely sad if this did not get funded and I am glad that it did. Please look forward to the documentary. Trust me, it's going to be awesome. I think we should drop this here, though, before we start to make ourselves look like idiots. Sorry for the trouble or whatever. I have almost talked too much, though, so I will stop; I will refrain from discussing anything related to the documentary at all until its release.

Also, it seems that I played these games a lot this year as they both showed up on both my Switch and PS4 end-of-year things for games played the most

Hehe, Hishou S!S!S! made my PS4 list at #5. But I also played on both PS4 and Switch, so mine would have been similar to yours in that combined playtime would have bumped it up a bit - at least enough to overtake my #3 (Guilty Gear Strive) and #4 (Sekiro) spots.

Already assuming that Toaplan Arcade Garage vol.3 will make an appearance on my 2023 list.

My playtime on Hishou Same! Same! Same! will probably drop significantly now that I have a Hishouzame board, but maybe not since my Astro City is in a room without air conditioning and it gets pretty cold in there in the winter. Nothing like your hands and feet starting to freeze solid while you're trying to play your game.

I LOVE your passion for Toaplan! Keep it up, it's contagious.

That being said, it's OK if you want pristine PCBs, these games are works of art after all (I know you agree!), but please, don't call them fakes or bootlegs, when that's not what they are! After all, a classic car with new wheels or body work is not a mint from the showroom piece, but it's still the car after all!

I don't really know if I paid "the most" for the documentary, but it was enough that I had to ask the wife first!

I'm excited for it to get made and expand my Toaplan collection.

X

[Steven]

I LOVE your passion for Toaplan! Keep it up, it's contagious.

That being said, it's OK if you want pristine PCBs, these games are works of art after all (I know you agree!), but please, don't call them fakes or bootlegs, when that's not what they are! After all, a classic car with new wheels or body work is not a mint from the showroom piece, but it's still the car after all!

I don't really know if I paid "the most" for the documentary, but it was enough that I had to ask the wife first!

I'm excited for it to get made and expand my Toaplan collection.

X

lol don't worry about it dude. It's all good. Earlier this year Toaplan's games permanently changed my life for the better and I owe a great deal to Uemura-san, Yuge-san, and everyone else that ever worked there. That is why I love them all so much, and while there is little that I can do to repay those guys, I still do what I can.

Anyway, if you donated a shitload of cash, are you going to the documentary screening in Tokyo? If you are, hit me up when it's time and I'll go to Mikado and Taito Hey and all of the other great arcades with you once you get here.

[XtraSmiley]

I LOVE your passion for Toaplan! Keep it up, it's contagious.

That being said, it's OK if you want pristine PCBs, these games are works of art after all (I know you agree!), but please, don't call them fakes or bootlegs, when that's not what they are! After all, a classic car with new wheels or body work is not a mint from the showroom piece, but it's still the car after all!

I don't really know if I paid "the most" for the documentary, but it was enough that I had to ask the wife first!

I'm excited for it to get made and expand my Toaplan collection.

X

lol don't worry about it dude. It's all good. Earlier this year Toaplan's games permanently changed my life for the better and I owe a great deal to Uemura-san, Yuge-san, and everyone else that ever worked there. That is why I love them all so much, and while there is little that I can do to repay those guys, I still do what I can.

Anyway, if you donated a shitload of cash, are you going to the documentary screening in Tokyo? If you are, hit me up when it's time and I'll go to Mikado and Taito Hey and all of the other great arcades with you once you get here.

Thank you, I'll consider it! I'm in DC so the trips rather long now, but when I was in HI I would drop by on occasion!

[Sumez]

I fully expect the Bitwave releases to be on par with M2's.

I hope you're right, and they have said the right things and given some reason for optimism... but I'll wait and see how these releases actually turn out before assuming they'll match the gold standard of M2. (also: ewww PC versions gross)

From what I played, the Bitwave releases seem very nice. But they also come with a "rewind" button activated and mapped to your controller right out of the gate, not sure what to make of that. Also no option for autofire as far as I could find.
It was just a preview build of course, so I'm expecting more options and hopefully at least a competitive mode on release.

[Rastan78]

I like the way M2 handled rewind on Sega Ages. You toggle left and right at the main menu and there's a clear description of the mode and the fact that you're disabling arcade ranking by toggling rewind on.



I can see why you don't want to bury it in a menu and have the input for rewind be a nondefault button setup. You're targeting casual players who might not otherwise even discover the option. But it's a balance between making it accessible and polluting the standard arcade mode.

[BIL]

Yeah, as always, M2 were spot-on there. See also the short but notable "READY...?" countdown after a pause, seen in their ShotTriggers and Contra+Castlevania releases. I think of it as the anti-VixyNyan feature.

Compare that with SNK40th, where a Rewind button is hard-mapped to the controller at all times. I stick it on L3, my least-likely to press during gameplay, on the occasions where I hold my nose and dive in for a bit of SAR, Genshitou, or Bermuda Triangle.

Capcom Arcade Stadium at least lets you banish the button from the controller entirely (simply don't map it), so even if the feature is technically always-on, there's no risk of accidentally spoiling an otherwise arcade-spec run.

[DMC]

Yeah, as always, M2 were spot-on there. See also the short but notable "READY...?" countdown after a pause, seen in their ShotTriggers and Contra+Castlevania releases. I think of it as the anti-VixyNyan feature.

Ha! I will always think of the "resume-countdown" as the anti-VixyNyan feature from now on. The countdown should really be accompanied by VixyNyan's old avatar to go the full distance.

Is the Same! collection available as a download on the Japanese Eshop, by the way? Can't find it.

[Rastan78]

@DMC, searching for "M2" does a pretty good job of pulling up all the shottriggers stuff on the eshop.

BIL, yeah there's nothing more annoying than rewind being a permanently baked in feature, let alone when you can't even freaking unbind it.

There's another cool aspect of the rewind button in M2 Shinobi that I haven't seen discussed or used too much. You can save and upload a schlauchified perfect playthrough by rewinding and then playing section by section. Essentially a perfectly spliced save stated run that is very simple to create, but on a console game.

Normally I don't think of rewind as being that great of a practice tool preferring to go with the classic multiple save states approach. I can see where this approach would be great for creating a 1CC route or high scoring route.

Study your own successful play rather than someone else's to level up. Of course you can only access that type of replay via the "All-Mix" leaderboards.

Agreed that the anti pause buffering measure is a great thing. IMO the high bar of falsificare antimeasures in M2 ports are a good reason to prefer them over emulation. Even if a player doesn't capture and upload their gameplay its easy enough for anyone in the community to simply find their score on the leaderboads and watch the replay from there. Probably a pipe dream, but it would also be great to have cross platform leaderboards some day. Or would that open up the seemingly ironclad console leaderboards to PC hackery?

[DMC]

@DMC, searching for "M2" does a pretty good job of pulling up all the shottriggers stuff on the eshop.

Thanks!

[evil_ash_xero]

You know, when M2 bought the rights to the Toaplan games, I thought "cool, they can do those here and there". I didn't think they would pace them out each year, and do so many.
I was expecting Batrider, or something, by now. What happened to Raizing?

Oh well.

[kid aphex]

You know, when M2 bought the rights to the Toaplan games, I thought "cool, they can do those here and there". I didn't think they would pace them out each year, and do so many.
I was expecting Batrider, or something, by now. What happened to Raizing?

Oh well.

I was expecting far fewer releases, with each release covering multiple games…
I’m sure I wasn’t the only one.

M2’s approach has really turned me off to them as a dev, regardless of the good they’re doing for the genre and preservation.
I’m hoping the Tiger Heli and Fire Shark releases sold poorly enough that they’re tempted to try larger collections, because I’m done shelling out $40-$50 dollars for a game that’s worth $9.99 max, even with ‘gadgets’.

Hell, I’d rather have them forget about the Toaplan shit completely and focus on creating some new games.
Ubusana is 8 years into development -
Senjin Aleste is done, but they’re sitting on it with no ports announced (COOL, dude) -
Aleste Branch is still basically Vaporware -
How about a re-release of all the WiiWare Konami games they made? They’re lost to time.

Even their promotion style is aggravating — nobody wants to watch 1-2 hour livestreams of masked, navel gazing, soft-spoken developers.
It’s not how you get people excited for releases.
Pay a tiny bit of cash for someone to cut you a wild (international) trailer, release it and move on.

Just venting. Ignore me.

[XtraSmiley]

You know, when M2 bought the rights to the Toaplan games, I thought "cool, they can do those here and there". I didn't think they would pace them out each year, and do so many.
I was expecting Batrider, or something, by now. What happened to Raizing?

Oh well.

I was expecting far fewer releases, with each release covering multiple games…
I’m sure I wasn’t the only one.

M2’s approach has really turned me off to them as a dev, regardless of the good they’re doing for the genre and preservation.
I’m hoping the Tiger Heli and Fire Shark releases sold poorly enough that they’re tempted to try larger collections, because I’m done shelling out $40-$50 dollars for a game that’s worth $9.99 max, even with ‘gadgets’.

Hell, I’d rather have them forget about the Toaplan shit completely and focus on creating some new games.
Ubusana is 8 years into development -
Senjin Aleste is done, but they’re sitting on it with no ports announced (COOL, dude) -
Aleste Branch is still basically Vaporware -
How about a re-release of all the WiiWare Konami games they made? They’re lost to time.

Even their promotion style is aggravating — nobody wants to watch 1-2 hour livestreams of masked, navel gazing, soft-spoken developers.
It’s not how you get people excited for releases.
Pay a tiny bit of cash for someone to cut you a wild (international) trailer, release it and move on.

Just venting. Ignore me.

Shit man, you totally nailed it. I wish they were reading these forums and would read your post.

More, faster, better. I love their work, but the way they are going about it is soooooooooooo slow. Live streams are sooooooooooo low energy (for the mass market).

Oh well, here we are.

[To Far Away Times]

That seems to be a recurring problems with releasing old game catalogs. They want to milk it and drip feed each game months apart, starting the oldest and least desireable stuff. And often times they never even make it to the best stuff before the generation ends. (IE... Sega's 3D classics on 3DS - where's Sonic 3&K, or Outrunners? But hey, atleast we got Thunder Blade, Altered Beast, and Champion Boxing)

The Aleste collection is how it should be done. Or Taito Legends back on PS2. Don't spend four or five years getting to the best stuff then starting over for the next generation.

I'm not buying old ass Tiger Heli that has aged terribly. But i'll buy Batsugun or Outzone, you know... the one's we're all waiting for.

[kid aphex]

The Aleste collection is how it should be done. Or Taito Legends back on PS2. Don't spend four or five years getting to the best stuff then starting over for the next generation.

I'm not buying old ass Tiger Heli that has aged terribly. But i'll buy Batsugun or Outzone, you know... the one's we're all waiting for.

You’re absolutely right.
I think the Aleste collection was done really well.
Love it and don’t regret buying it at all.

[EmperorIng]

The last M2 release that truly excited me was the ESPRaDe port (which even then is a light, light step down from ketsui)*. Aside from the much-awaited Ray boxset they don't have much on the horizon to get me hyped.

Until I see something like the Aleste Branch or a Senxin port, they're just background noise to me honestly. I can only hope that the case of other companies scooping up their toaplan stuff for a quick and easy buck lights some type of fire under their ass.

*edit: terrible of me to forget G-Darius HD, that one is a gem.

[Rastan78]

-8-Bit ADV Steins;Gate (Included with Steins;Gate Elite) (Mages.)
-ESP Ra.De. Psi (Cave)
-Mega Man X Legacy Collection (partial) (Capcom)
-Darius Cozmic Collection (Taito)
-Final Bubble Bobble (Taito)
-Collection of Mana (Square Enix)[4]
-Castlevania Anniversary Collection (Konami)
-Contra Anniversary Collection (Konami)
-Tokyo School Life (PQube)
-Namcot Collection (Bandai Namco Entertainment)
-Namco Museum Archives (Bandai Namco Entertainment)
-Darius Cozmic Revelation (Taito, G-Darius HD, G-Darius Ver.2 and Darius (Extra Version) only)
-Aleste Collection
-Super Momotaro Dentetsu (NES) (Konami)
-Castlevania Advance Collection (Konami)
-Power Poke Dash (GBA) (Konami)
-SEGA Genesis - Nintendo Switch Online (Nintendo)
-Toaplan Arcade Garage: Kyukyoku Tiger-Heli (Taito)
-Toaplan Arcade Garage: Hishou Same! Same! Same!
-Getsu Fuuma Den (NES) (Konami)
-Legend of Mana Remastered (Square Enix)
-Ray'z Arcade Chronology (Taito)

Sega Ages:
-Sega Ages Sonic the Hedgehog (Sega)
-Sega Ages Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Sega)
-Sega Ages Thunder Force IV (Technosoft)
-Sega Ages Phantasy Star (Sega)
-Sega Ages Outrun (Sega)
-Sega Ages Gain Ground (Sega)
-Sega Ages Alex Kidd in Miracle World (Sega)
-Sega Ages Puyo Puyo (Sega)
-Sega Ages Virtua Racing (Sega)
-Sega Ages Wonder Boy in Monster Land (Sega)
-Sega Ages Space Harrier (Sega)
-Sega Ages Fantasy Zone (Sega)
-Sega Ages Shinobi (Sega)
-Sega Ages G-LOC: Air Battle (Sega)
-Sega Ages Herzog Zwei (Sega)

This is just the stuff they've done so far for Switch let alone other platforms. Yeah some are more exciting than others l, and I won't argue that they take their sweet time although shottriggers is not the only thing they have to do to stay afloat. Looking at this list of releases as whole it's really not that bleak. Easy to sit around with our thumbs up our butts complaining while others fight the good fight.

Anyone notice they dropped the Castlevania Advance Collection (very high quality IMO), G Darius HD, and the K Tiger collection within like a month of each other?

[Bassa-Bassa]

If Shot Triggers were more profitable for them than the minis, they'd be releasing more of them... I feel that we're still lucky that Taito is hiring them for the Darius and Ray's packs, given the contemporary Egret Mini thing (not to mention the S-Tributes). The discussion resides, I believe, if M2 has picked well enough their titles until now.


Taito Legends (and even Memories) is exactly how it should not be done, though - there're already too many solutions for quantity-over-quality lovers, and even M2 still has room for improvement. And I don't mean extra content, but accuracy, mind.

[Yoshi]

With apologies for off-topic question, does anyone know what the heck Final Bubble Bobble is on Switch? I can't find any credit to M2 for Bubble Bobble 4 Friends, which appears to be the only one on the platform.

[Rastan78]

With apologies for off-topic question, does anyone know what the heck Final Bubble Bobble is on Switch? I can't find any credit to M2 for Bubble Bobble 4 Friends, which appears to be the only one on the platform.

https://segabits.com/blog/2019/11/29/bu ... l-edition/

[Sumez]

I can't find any credit to M2 for Bubble Bobble 4 Friends, which appears to be the only one on the platform.

It takes around 5 seconds with the emulated Bubble Bobble port in BB4F to conclude that M2 had absolutely nothing to do with it

[Rastan78]

Sumez, I think that version was done by Gotch. Does anyone actually have that obscure master system version preorder bonus to confirm an M2 credit? It would make sense since they have done quite a bit of master system emulation in the past.