Beat 'em Ups (Including Switch List)

[hazys]

The line Beat Em Up title in it, being the very first Marvel character EVER done by Capcom, is discussed at length here, by a dude I agree with on just about everything:

https://youtu.be/jCjnLcjmIIg?feature=shared

lol I'm a fan of Mark too. He's kind of ornery but he's got the right insights.

[Sima Tuna]

Does anyone know where I can find more information on Zero Team? That game seems to have a lot of secrets and hidden mechanics, that are probably not that important in the long run, but still got me curious.

Like, I'm playing the 97 version and sometimes my combo finishers do a critical hit? You can see Big-O do it in the attract screen. Is there a technique involved with this or is it random?

Also, do bosses have a secret weakness? I managed to spike the Kabuki boss out of the air with Spin while he was doing his jumping attack, and the result was notably more explosive. I did something like this before on another boss, but I don't remember what I did.

Is there a score bonus for bothering with this?

Are there any other neat or note worthy tricks?

I'd love to know more, myself. It's an extremely awesome beat em up.

Best I can do you for is send you over to LordBBH
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... +zero+team

He's got a few videos of Zero Team, including a score vid and a 1cc. I don't know of any other channel that really has a lot of Zero Team content on it. You can probably learn something watching what he does. People usually post shit in his chat too about the game when he's playing it.

[hazys]

I'm not the biggest Kunio-kun fan (I like "River City Girls Zero" just fine), but today I learned they were planning a PS1 entry in the series set in Kowloon Walled City... this is almost as tantalizing as the canceled Final Fight: Seven Sons.

[Sumez]

Got some "time off" to visit a friend for a single day last weekend, and just brought my Denjin Makai 2 PCB so I could finally get some uninterrupted time to play it in one of his cabs. Got the 1CC after only a couple of attempts.
It all came down to learning those boss fights I was struggling with, since the stages are extremely lenient with healing around every corner, and the abilities using the POW meter makes sure you always have a way out even when playing poorly.

Really fun game, I can understand the praise it gets. It's the standard Final Fight type formula done perfectly. I would probably have enjoyed a bit more enemy variety, but the game is still extremely good at never feeling stale, due to how fast you progress to it.

[BulletMagnet]

Arc has some manner of new Double Dragon game in the works.

[Air Master Burst]

Arc has some manner of new Double Dragon game in the works.

According to the magazine, the new game faithfully reproduces the thrill of old school side-scrolling action games, with updated controls and difficulty settings for the modern era, and utilizing Arc System Works’ fighting game development experience. Jimmy Lee, Billy Lee, Roper, Abobo, and more will appear in stylish 3D.

I don't know what a 3D Double Dragon with modern controls and developed utilizing fighting game experience is gonna look like but I bet it ain't much like a proper belt scroller.

[Bassa-Bassa]

But it's totally stylish, what else do you need.

[Air Master Burst]

Ok so it might make a good character action game tho.

[Sumez]

Doesn't look particularly stylish to me, at least not compared to the Guilty Gear games
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQiA3sCuqIs

Barely looks like a beat'em up though. But hard to tell with what little gameplay they are showing. There seems to be a couple of frames where you see a guy fighting multiple dudes at the same time.

[cfx]

There's a Yuke's logo at the end so they're likely the actual developer.

I think the style is ugly, a more detailed version of the plastic-y style of Double Dragon Neon. Also reminds me of one of the recent Street Fighter games (V? I think) that look terrible to me.

[Bassa-Bassa]

I do as well, and worse, but "stylish" is how Arc/Famitsu are selling us their new graphics, so I felt obliged.

Why they even call it Double Dragon, I wonder.

And in the meantime the original creator is eager to get their hands involved in a new 2D DD project.

[Sengoku Strider]

Outside of the shitty megadrive port

Is it really that bad?

[velo]

I don't know what a 3D Double Dragon with modern controls and developed utilizing fighting game experience is gonna look like but I bet it ain't much like a proper belt scroller.

From the quarter-second of gameplay footage and the screenshots, it looks like it could be a 3D belt scroller like Neon. It's funny they're calling it Revive. Apparently we're pretending the last few games didn't happen and they're resurrecting a long-dead franchise we haven't heard from since whenever.

[Air Master Burst]

Outside of the shitty megadrive port

Is it really that bad?

It's pretty unimpressive even if you didn't have the amazing arcade version to compare it to. Capcom farmed it out to Scultpured Software, whose biggest claim to fame was probably either the crappy Super Star Wars games or the SNES Mortal Kombat ports.

[Sumez]

I actually just fired up the megadrive port yesterday. Yeah it's pretty bad.

It's more functional than I remember it, but it looks really poor and has nothing of what makes the arcade game fun

[BrianC]

Outside of the shitty megadrive port

Is it really that bad?

It's pretty unimpressive even if you didn't have the amazing arcade version to compare it to. Capcom farmed it out to Scultpured Software, whose biggest claim to fame was probably either the crappy Super Star Wars games or the SNES Mortal Kombat ports.

They can be hit or miss and The Punisher is one of their misses, but they did some technically impressive stuff like the SNES Doom and BMX Airmaster for the Atari 2600.

[Marc]

Outside of the shitty megadrive port

Is it really that bad?

It's pretty unimpressive even if you didn't have the amazing arcade version to compare it to. Capcom farmed it out to Scultpured Software, whose biggest claim to fame was probably either the crappy Super Star Wars games or the SNES Mortal Kombat ports.

You wouldn't believe how well those Star Wars games are thought if on most forums. It really is quite baffling.

[Sima Tuna]

I only played the star wars snes games casually. I know super star wars is full of bullshit difficulty, but was there some other reason to not like the games? Super Return of the Jedi was fun when I played it as a kid.

[TransatlanticFoe]

I never played the first one but had Empire and Jedi - Empire I remember was pretty tight, cleared it on the hardest difficulty and had fun doing it. Jedi was a bit more uneven, starting off with an awkward speeder level and then generally being quite a bit easier than Empire - before finally ending with an ugly, sluggish first-person Death Star run. It also had buggy sound, speech samples cut out and/or skipped like a scratched record.

[Air Master Burst]

I only played the star wars snes games casually. I know super star wars is full of bullshit difficulty, but was there some other reason to not like the games? Super Return of the Jedi was fun when I played it as a kid.

They were fine rentals for the time, but that's only because they were just about the only choices for console Star Wars games. They can't compare to actual good games like Contra or Gunstar Heroes. Hell, they aren't even on the same level as Demolition Man.

I never even liked them back in the day, but that's mostly because I had access to a PC that could run X-Wing. Super Star Wars still beats the shit out of stupid fucking Rebel Assault, tho.

[BrianC]

Is it really that bad?

It's pretty unimpressive even if you didn't have the amazing arcade version to compare it to. Capcom farmed it out to Scultpured Software, whose biggest claim to fame was probably either the crappy Super Star Wars games or the SNES Mortal Kombat ports.

You wouldn't believe how well those Star Wars games are thought if on most forums. It really is quite baffling.

They also did the NES Empire Strikes Back, which is worse.

[Sima Tuna]

Did a quick credit feed on easiest settings for Double Dragon Advance. You might think, "what a scrub!" And of course, you would be right. But also, Double Dragon Advance is a really hard game.

Spoiler

Not just beat em up hard. Every boss in Double Dragon Advance feels like the gauntlet at the end of Vendetta. You don't fight one Abobo, or even two at once. Oh no. The limiters were removed on this version of the game. Every boss has multiple waves of goons they bring with them, and those mooks will include nonboss versions of past bosses. Enemy AI is coked up compared to other versions of Double Dragon, and you fight a lot more of them. Get ready to kill 12 Burnovs and probably 25+ Abobos in an average run. The average enemy pack in this game looks something like this:

2 normal enemies, which are also dynamite throwers/droppers or have knives or some other weapon (also dynamite is infinite and the timer is nearly instant when an enemy throws it at you)
2 strong/fast enemies, aka some kind of high-hp foe that has fast, damaging stunlock combos
2 Abobos/Burnovs

Enemies always try to flank and they engage in the same stunlock tactics that veteran DD players have employed on waking up opponents. As far as I can tell, the only responses when you are on the ground and an enemy is standing above you are to sidestep or go for a perfectly-timed knee/headbutt. If an enemy is standing on either side of you, then the knee/headbutt will get flanked and you can't use that.

The belt becomes very narrow in places, specifically preventing you from sidestepping to offset-cheese enemies.

There is a block button, but I don't see the value. The time it takes to block ensures 3 other goons will flank behind you.

You can stunlock enemies really easily 1vs1, and also in packs if you can get them all on one side and they don't have a throw to escape your standing jab wakeup pressure. Kick spacing is another way to stunlock enemies. The kick has a lingering hitbox you can use to set up combo finishers and keep the enemy or boss in a loop. Generally, I would say 1vs1 bosses are incredibly easy. I was credit feeding and used up all my continues falling into spike pits, being kicked down gorges and getting stunlocked by groups. I made it to Willy with 1 life and zero continues. He machinegunned my last life away but also killed the 2 Abobos(!), which allowed me to easily 1vs1 stunlock him into a corner from full health to death. The 2 Abobos were much more dangerous than Willy, as is the case with the entire game.

I'm not sure how one would even begin to 1cc this. There are ways (known to DD veterans) of manipulating enemy behavior in some locations. If the enemy can't get behind you, the mob will mill around while guys approach 1vs1 slowly. That can work. You can also dump dudes into pits... But they can dump you right back.

The game itself is great, however. Bimmy and Jammy have a massive moveset and amazing weapons. The stages have better music than OG DD Arcade and better levels than either Arcade or NES. Level progression takes a lot longer to introduce bullshit platforming, and really has very few bullshit traps. The majority of levels have a kung fu/martial arts theme, which is again great. I love to see a consistent artistic direction for DD. Feels like this series can be very slapdash in not knowing what it wants to be. This game has some amazing weapons that are super fun to use. I can't decide if the Escrima Sticks, Morning Star or Nunchucks are my favorite. The weapons are powerful but you can lose them fast because of the game's difficulty. Perfect balance, imo. I don't like it when weapons in beat em ups are kinda crappy and not worth using. I suppose pros could debate if it's better to have fast weapons or just be on point with punch/kick stunlocks. But in neutral, I think the weapons confer a huge advantage. The hardest part of this game for me is closing distance to the enemy without being hit, and weapons save the day there.

To conclude, I think Double Dragon Advance is a far superior way to play a DD Arcade game. You get more weapons, more moves, minimal slowdown (if any,) more enemy types, more challenge, no elbow cheese, no NES platforming sections, a much larger moveset (I didn't even touch on all your moves) and levels that flow more naturally. There are even little comic book story scenes IF you care. No reason not to play this if you haven't yet. I'd be hard-pressed to think of a more consistently good DD game. It knows exactly what it wants to be and it executes that. The game is brutally difficult though. I had every setting on easiest and still got destroyed credit feeding. I wouldn't have even seen the ending if not for how easy it can be to stunlock bosses once you get them alone.

I definitely will go back to this one, although I don't know how viable it will be for an unskilled player like me to 1cc.

[BIL]

DDA has a certain maximalist take on oldschool Technos. You're far stronger than in the Kunio/DD/Combatribes games it amalgamates, but just as fragile and stun-lockable. On top of that, enemies are now legion. ala Crime Fighters 2, despite the greater ability to knock 'em flat and stomp 'em out, you have to plot attacks and pre-empt reprisals as cautiously as you would in those 80s titles.

It really does get easier; the jumping spinkick [A+B while airborne] will mow through crowds from off-axis, and many of the big onslaughts have either weapons, pits, or both, expediting matters. The crazy hordes in the FC1 cave come to mind. You will lose the former and get punted into the latter for the tiniest faltering ofc. The truck stage is an early spike where aforementioned spinkick shines. Don't get on Jeff and co's line, one hit will see you comboed and dunked. And even if you beat Jeff to the punch, his buddies will jump you. Attack from off-axis with your taller hitbox and make them roadkill instead. Jeff's achilles heel is his imperious post-combo taunt, which he does even after whiffing!

(It's my headcanon that's Jeff anyway! Burning in shame at his headswap beginnings, he got new moves AND snazzy new threads, then returned with HE WHOLE CREW to prove he's not the lousy little PALETTESWAP PUSSYCLAAT you recall! WTB DD Gaiden: My Life As A Headswap And How I Got Over That Shit Foreword by Ken Masters!

...yo, Jeff and his FC1 replacement Chin in the same game. Awkward! Never even thought about that. Although I suppose Chin reverse-migrated to AC2. What a heartening love letter to series mechanics and canon alike DDA is. Particularly enjoyed how the endgame has

Spoiler

FC2's Mysterious Warrior show up, with his badass BGM, as merely the heir of a rival school looking for a good showdown, with regrets for using Willy's cowardice to get it. Then the bros and Marion get the fuck outta town, so nobody has to argue over whether AC2 or FC2 is canon )

As you say, the humble kick isn't to be slept on; reliable off-axis stagger on even big foes, much like in AC2. Albeit you don't have to get ass-backwards to launch it here, but same principle.

Generous yet unforgiving game. This is one of those console-original sequels where it's imperative to play Normal first, not the JP cart's new Hard mode. It's entirely cab-ready on defaults!

Yeah, I could've done without the DD4 guard/reversal mechanic, too. It works great there, in that game's slower, love/hate filmic style. It's less great in a game that moves as fast as AC2, particularly with much bigger crowds. Felt like a slight personal indulgence on Muneki Ebinuma's part, bless him. Passionate soul!

I'm the same with parrying in the Souls games, and parrying in action games overall, tbh. I only use it when it's screaming obvious the designers intended it. (Bloodborne calling its counter-shot a "parry" always cheers me up. Yeah this weredude came at me with a cleaver but I parried by blowing his head off. I know the word's etymology is merely "to ward off," just a delightful subversion of vidya norms )

Although, I wonder sometimes if DDA masters have a skilled application for that L button. This guy's killer Survival Mode run makes sparing use. IIRC, you can see him use it in situations where a gutsy combo has pushed his evasion window to the absolute limit. Insurance against getting tagged by an interferer while stepping off the line, maybe?

I avoid ~What Coulda Been~ talk, as a general rule - some sad shit - but I can't help imagining this game appearing on MVS circa 1994... my only complaints are the inevitable hardware limitations of screen and controller. Even then it's a gem.

[it290]

Upcoming Amiga Beat 'Em Up Metro Siege just had a playable preview released and is looking pretty good for a game that can run on an A500 with 1MB RAM:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-epWxOG5eg

[Air Master Burst]

Upcoming Amiga Beat 'Em Up Metro Siege just had a playable preview released and is looking pretty good for a game that can run on an A500 with 1MB RAM:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-epWxOG5eg

Oooh I been waitin on this one! I will get on this in a bit!

[Sima Tuna]

I have figured out a few pretty hilarious tricks for Double Dragon Advance.

Enemies cannot figure out how to close with you safely when you are on a level above them. If you stand at the top of a bunch of boxes and mash the attack button (either one,) every enemy including every boss (that I know of) will slowly jump up into your attack, get it, fall down and repeat ad infinitum. Groups of enemies will slowly jump their way to you and get bodied until they die. Every screen with an elevated platform can be cheesed this way. So if you have extra time on the timer (which you probably will,) you can clear any pack of enemies 100% safely and no-hit.

Not sure how I feel about this, because the cheese level is so high it feels like cheating. On the other hand, trying to kill these massive packs without a weapon in hand can be extremely rough. I'll let the thread veterans decide how severe a problem this is for the game's balance. Go experiment and see what you think. I was able to get to stage 3 or 4 (forget which) deathless once I learned the trick.

[BIL]

I think that's just something they left unaddressed for old times' sake; works in AC1 and AC2, as well. Likewise the legendary elbow/exbow, which the AI was never updated for, and is also in DDA. AC2 just nerfed its damage, leaving it mostly useful as an emergency escape. (as an aside, I think AC1 plays pretty well if you limit it thus, to breaking pincers / disarming enemies)

Either that, or they simply didn't know lmao. But AC Double Dragon jank is practically as iconic as the game itself, and Ebinuma was a DD otaku prior to joining Technos, so I'd guess they were well aware.

If it's in the game it's in the game, as they say. Though there may be some price to be paid. Currently burning in shame at my AC Ninja Gaiden nomiss using the same terrain exploit as everyone else in the st4 onslaught. >_>

[BurlyHeart]

New beat em up coming soon: Vengence Hunters for the NeoGeo and modern systems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NCHr3jsotI

[Sumez]

That looks surprisingly promising. Guy seems to know what he's talking about.

[Randorama]

Had a great time with Ninja Gaiden. R2RKMF is unified at last! now staunch arcade loyalists Randorama and BLOODF can't complain it's named after the FC game.

Well, I just sent the Arcade Inquisition over to your place. Expect to wake up at 4 am to play a round or one thousand of Shadow Warriors, I guess

IlPalazzo: all great 1-CC's, congrats! I 1-CC'ed Hook with Peter Pan, though. How did you approach Hook himself?

By the way: do we have a "chronology of beating" thread, somewhere, akin to the "chronology of shooting" thread? It would be nice to have a list of titles in the genre divided by year (Well, a "chronology of platforming", "chronology of running and gunning", "chronology of puzzling" would also be nice...).