The Cancel Culture thread! WOO!

[Blinge]

This is one for JoBros but..
The other day i essentially lost a friendship over somebody insisting that...
..they couldn't recommend JoJo's Bizarre Adventure part 2 because it has a 'sympathetic nazi' character in it.

And a friend they recommended it to felt uncomfortable watching it.

My stance that they should be less sensitive and just enjoy the stupid anime was apparently "cringe."

I was fed up of the conversation at that point.

[BIL]

I have a couple thoughts on Stroheim (and Caesar's little homie Marco). One is that the former is portrayed as thoroughly evil fanatic (around the Santana incident), and Araki never goes back on that. Having guts and the ability to recognise a common threat doesn't negate being a genocidal tyrant.

Is the scenario of a common, inhuman enemy emerging during WW2 innately tasteless? I could understand that. IRL there was no more rapaciously expansionist global power, and nobody who lost their lives to the Axis had the benefit of magical kung-fu. It's pulpy ultraviolent schlock, irreverent by nature.

That said - I knew a Holocaust survivor, a beloved local figure, actually. Astronomer by training, did a lot to update the science curriculum in our public schools. He would've been the age of that nameless kid who volunteers to sacrifice himself for Stroheim's despicable experiment. In some bizarre alternate reality, where I'd ever pester my elderly friend for his opinion on comic books, I wouldn't be afraid of him finding that scene trivialising, but rather too accurate to the past he and others lived through. Maybe he'd have recognised the merciless evil in those panels.

The second is, I don't think portraying Nazis as complete humans, capable of valour or even altruism, is at all harmful. Quite the opposite, actually. It wasn't fictitious demigods that were smashing babies' skulls against tree trunks on the Eastern front. It was (title of a good book on the subject) ordinary men. Monstering them is as unhelpful as absolving them, ultimately.

I imagine the former process is why morons like Goldberg ever come to believe they're somehow virtuous in their ignorance. "The Nazis, they were man's inhumanity to man, man!" No, they were man's humanity to man - one very real and ever-present facet of it - and this race grifter shit continues to plumb dangerous new depths.

So FWIW, on balance, I don't think the dignity of the world is harmed by JoJo Part 2's existence. It's schlock, but with its heart in the right place, imo.

Sorry you and your buds had a falling out, friends are good to have. 3;

[Blinge]

Nah she went on to tell me my grandfather was an evil man for joining the british army post ww2 so i have no time for smug cunts like that or their moral highground.

A mangaka from a former axis power has an almost-comic relief character.
It's not Araki saying " oh hey look, nazis were the best weren't they? "

but yes good points

[drauch]

It's been over a decade since I've read JoJo pt. 2, so I don't remember him that well, but I've seen/read a handful of things with sad lil' nazis in it!

All Quiet on the Western Front (original and remake), Cross of Iron, Land of Mine, Stalingrad. Mainly soldiers not understanding why they're in war, the futility of it all, anti-nazi zealotry and going against their leaders, etc.

Sven Hassel's books are a favorite of mine too. Claimed this was the author's experiences, but this is very debatable. First book maybe more-so, but I'd wager at least inspired from his experiences in a German penal brigade. The penal unit is made up of political prisoners, anti-nazi germans, thieves, etc. They're very brutal books when the battles rage, but simultaneously very sympathetic to the enemy, civilians, and those persecuted. There's a whole bunch of penal units under the nazis. Basically if you didn't agree you had to fight anyway or die, or escape if you could. I don't think it was ever as easy as "Nah, I didn't vote for Hitler, I think I'll set this one out." Especially with Hitler Youth indoctrinating little tikes into babby Adolphs, I don't think those fuckers ever stood a chance to understand what they were doing.

Nazis obviously blow. Humanizing the party would be absolutely batty, but I don't see fault in humanizing the individual. I have like zero friends. Maybe this is why.

[Randorama]

My two cents on the matter:

colour codes in Auschwitz differentiated amongst various "enemies of the NSDAP state" groups, and certainly not just amongst "race" groups.
The NSDAP leaders also had very confused ideas on what counted as "Aryan race", even though they had clear ideas on how Aryan soliders should have looked like.

...I am pretty sure that the NSDAP had long-term plans to wipe out black-skinned people (pardon, "Afro-American") from the planet, and I'd mention Jesse Owens, Berlin 1936.
So, chalking it up to "a thing amongst white people" seems...Oh, insert here something, please.

It's a bit like Far-right extremists from Eastern European countries praising the NSDAP policies.
Here's the deal, lads: you would have been the first ones to go in the ovens, so choose a better reference for your hate policies.

Basically if you didn't agree you had to fight anyway or die, or escape if you could.

...My natural grandpa was not even a "pure German", but a mutt from different central European ethnicities (Hungarian, Austrian, Slovenian, Italian, Yiddish relatives too...).
He was however tall, slim and blond enough (and blue-eyed, too) to appease the propaganda requirements of the regime.

I believe that a general problem for the propaganda machine was that the average German was usually fat, short (bad diet), and generally not really blond.
I never read detailed studies on the topic, but I remember an article on Reni Riefenstahl claiming that she had problems when shooting propaganda movies.
So, having someone who looked like a member of the "Aryan race" was useful for them; whence the forced drafting.

The SS were desperate for fresh troops when Germany annexed Austria, so they pointed a pistol at his temple and asked if he wanted to join.
He survived until 1943, somehow, then deserted and joined the Canadian troops on Italian soil, when the war of resistance against Nazis broke out (1943).
He never really got over the war trauma, and suicided at 82, in 2003.

On a related note, I think that Nazi penal brigades made up to 30% of the total army, at some point.
My understanding is that anyone who was not a member of the party and did not volunteer to get slaughtered would end up in the penal brigades.
I don't remember reading very accurate numbers, as obviously nazis constantly tried to hide the fact that they were not... a monolithic entity, to put it in a simplistic manner.

Considering how much most people do not understand (or simply do not know) this historical phenomenon these days, I'd reckon that the NSDAP thoroughly won the propaganda battle.
Drauch's very elegant joke on the German elections' result of 1935 would probably be lost on 99% of people with a decent knowledge of 20th century history (...and I had to re-read to catch it, case in point).
People who have no clue because educational systems suck? We can guess.

On the very trivial side:

There's plenty of well-defined, fully fleshed Nazi or Nazi-inspired characters in fiction.
Should I just write "Principality of Zion"?

Anyway, Kieron Gillen wrote the brilliant Uber (Umlaut on the "U", sorry), which did undergo a bit of a "cancel culture attack" frenzy, at its release.
Bonus points if you discover the ethnicity of the illustrator on the first Uber series.

I'd like to avoid posting a list, though, for obvious reasons.

On JoJo...

All of Araki's bad guys are generally well-rounded characters.
Araki always gave them little exposure, however, to avoid readers sympathizing with them too much (think of Dio Brando and Diavolo...)

On Kira Yoshikage, Araki admitted giving him too much space, in at least one interview.
Kira does remain the best well-written evil antagonist in Manga aside Johann Liebert, but Urasawa created Liebert precisely to "beat" Arasaki's excellent creation.

As far as I know, Araki never made any political declarations except for being sympathetic to the LGBT cause and being a "xeno-phile" in a generally xeno-phobic country (think of the Joestars' roots).
In the interviews, he always sounded like an open-minded though not particularly committed person (or: "I am just a mangaka, but I am all for love and understanding").
Also, Stroheim is played like "Cannon Fodder Cretin Guy", isn't he? I bet that he added the character just to pay homage to the director...

EDIT:

Mel Brooks starred in To be or not to be, a movie on the internment of homosexual prisoners in concentration camps.
Brooks being Brooks, he wrote and sang Hitler's rap as the ending song to the movie (and recovered the legendary "Hail myself!" line).
I wanted to mention this when I mentioned Brooks in this very thread, a few years ago.
Oh well, better late than never.

[Sima Tuna]

A nazi character in a manga?

Spoiler

Stroheim is not the main character of jojo part 2 or even close to it. He's not a hero. He's a recurring side character, mostly played for laughs, and he's evil. Nazis are not good guys in JoJo. They're still evil. Just less evil than bodybuilding gay vampire aztec gods. The idea of someone getting real-world mad over JoJo (one of the most ridiculous and hilariously fun anime/manga around) is mind-blowing to me. Bro, it is not at all the kind of show to be getting serious and angry about.

All the characters are homoerotic as fuck anyway. Is there really a single person on this planet who imagines Araki as the kind of guy to promote nazism unironically? Hahaha, I doubt it.

Seems to me that the kind of person who gets mad at jojo, whether left-leaning or right-leaning, takes themselves too seriously. Remember that time when Jotaro fought against an evil stand user in a game of Baseball Stars 2?



And he won by cheating.

[Blinge]

the main point on contention was apparently the ending panels that mention Stroheim having died
"fighting as a proud nazi soldier in Stalingrad" or words to that effect.

This also means nothing to me. Okay there was a character formerly allied with JoJo against a greater threat who later died fighting in a conflict. I don't think the viewer is supposed to feel bad about it or sympathetic to him.

Guys this is so silly and i'm sorry to have brought it up



Also this tho

[Sengoku Strider]

Cultural conservatives turn the tables on cancel culture heretics, attempting to launch a klanish inquisition of their own:

[Sengoku Strider]

As an addendum to the above, things proceeding in a super cool and healthy-for-society direction.



Ironically, the one time invoking the free speech crowd's pet 'literally 1984' slippery slope fallacy would be valid involves conservatives banning 1984.

You will notice that Jojo's is also not banned in Texas...

[BIL]

I gotta say... Mein Kampf is a valuable historical document, and a good insight in the mind of a tyrant. It's also as dry as sawdust, or at least I recall it being so when I read it in high school. Maybe Hitler fucks his cat at some point, I might've forgotten.

My First Bareback Boipucci Fuck Fest may also be historically valuable, but its graphic descriptions of jizz running down an inner thigh post-coitus will set off the bible-thumper set. "They'd hate it anyway, bigot! Just for being about a 13yo getting plowed for the very first time!" Yeah probably. I'm sure it's banned in Saudi Arabia too.

Banning the latter, and the similarly frank 1984 and Handmaid, doesn't mean magically endorsing the ideas of the former. Before anyone calls me a bible-thumper, we read those in high school too, along with a bunch of other scurrilous things. I'm just saying, any Iron Maiden fan knows the tales of outraged churchgoers gassing themselves on vinyl fumes, burning stacks of NOB in the streets.

I'm surprised to hear my schooling at a modest Church of Jamaica-funded institution was apparently unfathomably sophisticated and nuanced by Burger standards. We were well-informed of the Nazis' Jewish and non-Jewish victims alike in our 20th Century Totalitarian Regimes syllabus, straight outta Mama Blighty. I'm getting the feeling from Whoopiegate that teaching the Nazis' depredations is some kind of either/or proposition in American schools? As if the cumulative evil of the regime, genocidal of those deemed racially and medically unworthy of life alike, is too vast for young minds to comprehend.

Brain-killing IDPOL cancer working as intended, I suppose. Reminds me of this depressing take on the Juicy Smouliet fallout.

[Sengoku Strider]

I gotta say... Mein Kampf is a valuable historical document, and a good insight in the mind of a tyrant. It's also as dry as sawdust, or at least I recall it being so when I read it in high school. Maybe Hitler fucks his cat at some point, I might've forgotten.

Oh, the point isn't that Mein Kampf or anything similar should be banned. Purely that banning Maus of all things in a moral panic but leaving stuff like that untouched is waving a particular flag and not even being subtle about it. As you can see from the post before that one, with the Indiana proposal in which Nazis can't be portrayed as "low moral character," it's part of a broader and rather unsettling movement in which fascist discourse isn't just becoming normalized, it's already there. I'll spare you all the usual screen-cap avalanche demonstrating that fact, you don't have to look far to find it.

The shitty thing is that liberals have been pressing the Nazi panic button every time a conservative sneezed in the last 20 years, so calling it as it's actually happening just gets tuned out as more of the same noise.

Banning the latter, and the similarly frank 1984 and Handmaid, doesn't mean magically endorsing the ideas of the former. Before anyone calls me a bible-thumper, we read those in high school too, along with a bunch of other scurrilous things. I'm just saying, any Iron Maiden fan knows the tales of outraged churchgoers gassing themselves on vinyl fumes, burning stacks of NOB in the streets.

You don't need to reach all the way back to Iron Maiden references. Here's rather prominent Tennessee pastor Greg Locke's Global Vision Bible Church burning Harry Potter books and Disney merch for witchcraft & deviltry just last night:



https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/202 ... -tennessee

[Mischief Maker]

The shitty thing is that liberals have been pressing the Nazi panic button every time a conservative sneezed in the last 20 years, so calling it as it's actually happening just gets tuned out as more of the same noise.

Well I see it as completely vindicating the liberals banging the Nazi panic button. There be Nazis!

It's worth re-listening to this 1981 interview with Reagan staffer Lee Atwater (not released until 2012) where Atwater laid out step-by-step how Republicans were responding to growing public outcry against their heinous stances, not by re-examining and changing their racism, but by stealthing it behind successive layers of code:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT2fsv7xt4E "Let's go Brandon" indeed.

Did Trump wave a magic wand and create his MAGA voting base from lifeless clay, or was the country already lousy with stealth fascists jumping at the opportunity to stop talking about "taxes" and let their freak flag (or armband) fly?

I mean Qanon, distilled down to its essence, is just the dusty, centuries-old Jewish blood libel with selected terms updated Mad-Libs-style (eg. blood to adrenochrome) to modernize its look.

[BryanM]

It always reminds me of that universe-extinction event in the later Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy books. There's this planet surrounded by heavy gas that blocks vision out. When they first send astronauts out past it and they see the stars and the wider universe for the first time, they remark "Well, that has got to go."

So a war begins, between a planet with only a mere billions of people on it versus the entire universe and its trillions upon trillions. Horrified at this, Arthur asks how the hell are they possibly a threat. His friend shrugs and explains it's worse than that and that they'll win in the end: "They just care more."

[Sima Tuna]

You will notice that Jojo's is also not banned in Texas...

So nazis have good taste in anime???

[Sengoku Strider]

Well I see it as completely vindicating the liberals banging the Nazi panic button. There be Nazis!

The thing is that it represents the extreme edge of the conservative spectrum. So at any point you can look at an ideologically driven act on the sketchy end of things, and play the slippery slope fallacy game. "If everybody suddenly starts doing this" or ""if they aren't stopped and keep doing worse and worse versions of this, it will lead to Nazi Germany!" Conservative screech-mongers play the same game, declaring immanent Stalinism or being two weeks away from post-gender mandatory-gay-marriage sexy FEMA camp queertopia if some teacher tries to teach kids that Darth Vader was wrong or something.

Did Trump wave a magic wand and create his MAGA voting base from lifeless clay, or was the country already lousy with stealth fascists jumping at the opportunity to stop talking about "taxes" and let their freak flag (or armband) fly?

Sure, it goes back further than Trump. But would you have said the Trump era seemed like a logical outcome of conservative discourse circa 2006? In terms of cultural events it took the 2008 downturn, ever widening wealth inequality, 8 years of the white myth-shattering reality of a black president, transgender folks being centred in the cultural spotlight seemingly overnight, a decade of narcissistic sadists hijacking digital social justice movements for attention, then a complete lunatic fabulist becoming president and disconnecting the reality plug, to radicalize all these folks.

But yeah, lurking in the back ready to take advantage of all that were Steve Bannon and Cambridge Analytica and Peter Theil and Evola cultists and Vlad Putin and Aleksandr Dugin and Fourth Theory and Nick Land followers and Third Positionist weirdos and Fourchan incels and STEM-degree-only Silicon Valley white guys and ambitious Evangelical leaders and the nation of Hungary and non-legacy conservative news media and...

...wait. Okay, maybe you're right.

So nazis have good taste in anime???

[orange808]

Interesting. Yet, I can't live stream an unblinking absolutely transparent live feed of elected officials or Wall Street bankers... ..

Also, no punishments in place if they do something Jesus wouldn't approve of.

[BulletMagnet]

The thing is that it represents the extreme edge of the conservative spectrum.

The thing is that, with very, very few exceptions, nobody supposedly within the "moderate" conservative camp (or, the be perfectly frank, in the non-GOP "centrist" camp either), from the leadership right on down to the rank and file, has any major problem with what the wingnuts are doing, and are extremely willing to ignore whatever niggling issues they do have the second push comes to shove; even after more than a year of the (latest) "election fraud" lie being repeatedly and consistently disproved, huge majorities still say out loud that they believe the election was stolen and that "drastic measures" are needed to "make things right".

Moreover, as we've seen over the past few election cycles, the actual numbers, once folks who say they don't support these measures still turn out to vote en masse for them at the ballot box, are almost certainly a good deal higher than that. The GOP hasn't even bothered to release a policy platform for several years running now, because they don't have to; they're still projected to take over Congress next year and quite possibly the White House in 2024. They've barely lost a single voter, and quite likely picked up a fair number (remember, more people voted for Trump in 2020 than in 2016), by all but completely handing the keys over to the reactionaries, and if there's a "red line" that would suddenly turn this trend on its head I'd love to know what it could possibly be at this point.

But would you have said the Trump era seemed like a logical outcome of conservative discourse circa 2006?

Absolutely, and going back a lot farther than that. The crux of the right's limitless tolerance for authoritarian measures that they can count as a "win" for themselves, namely the idea that their political opponents are not simply people with incorrect ideas who need to be countered with better ones but enemies with sinister purposes who hate you and want to destroy your way of life and can't be reasoned with, only warred against, can be traced very directly back, if you're being extremely generous to conservatives, to the Bush 43 era (which is why I wanted to put an axe through the TV when commentators were falling over themselves to praise Dick "aid and comfort to the enemy" Cheney when he showed his face at the January 6th remembrance).

If you're only being very generous you can trace it to the scorched-earth likes of Newt Gingrich, who's still at it on cable regularly down to this day.

If you just want to be quite generous you can head right on back to Saint Reagan.

If you want to be somewhat generous that'll bring you back to Goldwater. And I'm quite sure people with a better knowledge of history than myself can keep right on going.

Every single one of those figures and the They want to take America away from Us narrative they espoused, right alongside the "bold remedies" they proposed, were enthusiastically embraced by the "reasonable" conservative mainstream, let alone the diehards, back in their day, and with the possible exception of Goldwater are still revered as heroes and visionaries even among the "non-crazy" conservatives who clutch their pearls at Trump's naughty words but stood obediently by with their traps shut as he stole the Supreme Court and was caught on tape telling Georgia's Secretary of State to "find" however many votes it would take for him to win the state.

Just the other day, of course, they officially declared the January 6th riot to be "legitimate political discourse", and in response to criticism claimed that they were only referring to the people at the rally who didn't storm the capital; this, of course, begs the question of, then what the hell is their problem with the January 6th commission, which is only going after the people that did storm the Capitol, to the point that they'd censure the meager two of their number who are participating in it (the initial proposal was to expel them from the party entirely)?

But the "reasonable" people who should be pointing this out and adjusting their votes accordingly are perfectly willing to pretend that what they said made perfect sense, and sneer at the rest of us to "move on".

[Blinge]

Rogan in the hot seat... AGAIN.

someone stitched together a huge no-context montage of him dropping N-bombs, the headlines only talk about his apology. From what I've gleaned he was telling anecdotes or quoting people, or discussing the word and its use. Not going around calling people N-word. Still, I don't know:
I can't find the actual clip for the life of me.

The man has given time, attention and a platform to people of basically every colour, creed, and political alignment over a long time. The Cancel culture is really gunning for him, and this is like the 4th? 5th attempt to get him?

[BIL]

Yeah, even by current year™ standards, it's remarkably transparent hatchetry. Anything goes baby!

The word is "nigger." It's a racial slur so soaked through in atrocity, it'll surely remain radioactive long after everyone currently living on Earth has passed on. Uttering it - scratch that, repeating it, in even the most clinical, forensic, pathology-minded context (because like all pathogens, you must acknowledge the thing to comprehend and contain it) attracts opprobrium like flies on shit.

And so it's become a convenient smear, of course. It's almost like people who'd deploy such nakedly cynical tricks don't have a shred of genuine regard for such a word. What they want is a modern-day hex - and sadly, this one works, up to and including even uttering the dread syllables bringing ruin on one's house.

Do I smoke? Are you nuts? That causes the c-word!

It's not just Rogan either. Predictably, you can find reprisal comps featuring various sainted figures from The Right Side Of History™ right up to Good Ol' Poppa Joe himself. A man who once referred to integrated schools as a "racial jungle" he'd never willingly send his children into, who now presumes to lecture us all on our ingrained bigotries.

(what's that? yeah no, I can believe he was engaging in an unfortunate bit of legalistic realpolitik, for the sake of compromise and a better tomorrow.

and I'm sure he and his ilk would extend the same tolerance to those on The Other Team. surely!)

TLDR: Social media sharia has turned American politics into a shithole. Britain and Canada are so caked in the same aerosolised faecal matter as to be nigh-indistinguishable, though they at least have less out-and-proud Nazis (but they compensate with untouchable organised rape gangs and the judicial nightmare child of Orwell and Kafka, respectively).

Can't do much more but laugh and occasionally grimace in disgust, like a bad comedy you can't switch off. I wish I could make all you and yours' seats as comfy as mine.

[Mischief Maker]

If you want to rag on Joe Rogan for vaccine disinfo, I think this clip is far more damning:

https://twitter.com/kingbullyo/status/1 ... 8431236100

[BIL]

This one was nothing to do with vaccines, apparently! Just a compilation of times - over thousands of hours of broadcasting, dating back to when he had hair - that Rogan repeated a byword for racially-motivated hatred, and its much-loved, much-hated byproduct.

As you know, in our time, repeating words means you endorse their sentiments. Similarly, becoming an oncologist makes you a walking mass of cancerous cells, studying virology causes you to spread contagious diseases, and writing a thesis on the Holodomor will soon see you imprisoning and starving Ukrainians.

The worst things in the world cannot be named or regarded, even academically. If you're allowed to do that, they might lose the tokenistic power some enjoy them having. :[

[BulletMagnet]

As you know, in our time, repeating words means you endorse their sentiments.

While he doesn't utter the slur in question therein, methinks his now-infamous "Planet of the Apes" line in particular casts a good deal of doubt on the notion that he'd only ever use such a term in a purely academic context, especially since his stated excuse for doing so was that he was just "trying to be entertaining".

In any event, let's get two things straight: one, the increased scrutiny that prefaced the discovery of his use of "racially-charged" language is merely a side effect of what originally put Rogan on so many people's radars, namely his willingness to give raving cranks equal billing with credentialed experts, even (especially) on matters of significant importance, most notably the coronavirus pandemic (and before folks jump down my throat, no, this does not mean that experts should never be questioned, but if you do so it should not be because you're "trying to be entertaining"). He says he intends to change this in the future, time will tell if he means it.

Two, get real, he is not going to be "cancelled" in any meaningful way; he's got way too many listeners, way too many high-profile defenders, and way too much money. If Limbaugh and his legion of imitators were never made to feel the lightest of consequences for the utterly awful shit they've been spewing uninterrupted for decades - and, unlike Rogan, they never apologize for anything - Rogan is absolutely not going anywhere, and may very well laugh all the way to the (literal and cultural) bank as a living martyr for the free-speech absolutists.

[BIL]

As you know, in our time, repeating words means you endorse their sentiments.

While he doesn't utter the slur in question therein, methinks his now-infamous "Planet of the Apes" line in particular casts a good deal of doubt on the notion that he'd only ever use such a term in a purely academic context, especially since his stated excuse for doing so was that he was just "trying to be entertaining".

I can't see Joe Rogan, the stoner podcaster / BJJ bro, harbouring a hatred for black people. Let alone to the hypothetical extreme you suggest, of calling them niggers. That's a level of disgust that seems genuinely surreal, from everything I've seen of him (on/off listener, last decade or so).

It's like being told Bill Burr is privately seething with vitriol for darker-skinned peoples. I just don't get that vibe at all. Of their circle, Anthony Cumia? Sure. I love the guy's bits, but I've no doubt he's entirely capable of going full Kramer. Pretty sure he's on record cheerfully admitting as much.

To be clear, even if turned out Rogan were privately racist, it would not lessen my contempt for this particular hatchet job one iota. It's just barely short of stitching together random soundbites to catch him swearing his fealty to Hitler.

In any event, let's get two things straight: one, the increased scrutiny that prefaced the discovery of his use of "racially-charged" language is merely a side effect of what originally put Rogan on so many people's radars, namely his willingness to give raving cranks equal billing with credentialed experts, even (especially) on matters of significant importance, most notably the coronavirus pandemic

Sounds like wishful thinking to me, I'm afraid. This event looks as nakedly manufactured as social media hitjobs get.

Two, get real, he is not going to be "cancelled" in any meaningful way; he's got way too many listeners, way too many high-profile defenders, and way too much money.

I don't think anyone here's suggested he will be brought down by this. I know I haven't. The efficacy of these character assassinations is utterly irrelevant. It's the principle. Win, lose or draw, the attempt is risible in itself.

It's infantile, retrograde, "Timmy said a bad word." Blimey, oh no. Timmy's also got kids with a woman who he cohabitates with, you know who else did that? That's right: Josef Fritzl. Fire Timmy immediately.

Those pushing this can get fucked in the ass. Hopefully when someone makes a highlight reel of their transgressions. That's been one consistent silver lining here. Did you know The "Dwayne Johnson" Rock wants to exterminate trans people?!

Save a trans person. Fire The Rock.

living martyr for the free-speech absolutists

I've never met a free speech absolutist. I don't think they exist among polite society.

[BIL]

MFW PWNing RACISTS ONLINE >:3

Spoiler

MFW Bryan remind me it ain't shit 3;>

Spoiler

Wait fuck. I legit thought this was your BurgerPocalypse thread Bryan! I'm up much too late in Cuck Island... AGAIN!

EDIT: Oho... Bryan you SLY DEVIRU ¦3

[BulletMagnet]

I can't see Joe Rogan, the stoner podcaster / BJJ bro, harbouring a hatred for black people.

I know little of his public persona and absolutely nothing of his private sentiments, but if we're going to talk about the "vibe" someone gives off I am inclined to guess that no, he doesn't harbor a distinct hatred for blacks or any particular race, but I would be willing to believe that he assigns absolutely zero value to what any particular marginalized group states is off limits for people outside that group to say or do in regards to them, because that might occasionally get in the way of his fun; as long as he can claim he's "just having a laugh" or "didn't mean it in that way", as far as he's concerned everyone else just needs to "lighten up" and/or "get over it". I'd also be willing to guess that a lot of people in a similar position to his with similar feelings - and quite possibly more intense and/or focused ones along those lines - get that same "vibe" from him, and that this plays no small part in explaining his popularity.

This event looks as nakedly manufactured as social media hitjobs get.

Speaking once again as someone who knows very little of Rogan, all this episode has done for the likes of me is reinforce his self-perpetuated image as a proudly unrepentant meathead who blurts out whatever pops into his head without taking a moment to consider what he's doing; i.e. I'm precisely as likely to listen to him now as I was before I knew he existed. As I stated earlier, I'm inclined to guess that this latest episode will easily gain him more support than it loses him.

The efficacy of these character assassinations is utterly irrelevant. It's the principle.

Perhaps, but methinks if you're going to stand so completely convinced that this whole thing is a deliberate hatchet job it's probably worth asking what the theoretical perpetrators might have hoped to accomplish with it in the first place.

I've never met a free speech absolutist. I don't think they exist among polite society.

Oh, they're popping out all over the place these days, albeit with the Calvin and Hobbes-esque disclaimer of "not for everyone, you dolt! Just me!"

[BIL]

but I would be willing to believe that he assigns absolutely zero value to what any particular marginalized group states is off limits for people outside that group to say or do in regards to them, because that might occasionally get in the way of his fun; as long as he can claim he's "just having a laugh" or "didn't mean it in that way", as far as he's concerned everyone else just needs to "lighten up" and/or "get over it".

He's not being portrayed as a well-meaning but sometimes insensitive meathead. He's certainly not being portrayed as merely inconsiderate to those less socially advantaged than him.

Those charges offer some hope of redemption, that maybe he can "educate himself." These witch trials never allow for redemption, or that perhaps, if Rogan were merely ignorant, it might be more beneficial for society to enlighten someone with his influence, rather than destroy them. I'd be astounded to see such nuance from the social media sharia crew.

The idea is to cast him as a dyed-in-the-wool bigot who should be stripped of his platform, because bigots gonna bigot, and it's the only way to stop the ongoing genocide of black people by the Nazis rampaging through their communities, setting record homicide rates in city after city after city. That's the virtuous kill shot.

I'd also be willing to guess that a lot of people in a similar position to his with similar feelings - and quite possibly more intense and/or focused ones along those lines - get that same "vibe" from him, and that this plays no small part in explaining his popularity.

Are you saying he attracts racists with his meatheaded insouciance? Does Vin Diesel? Or Jason Statham? How about WWE, MMA, and other generally hypermasculine, popular-with-whitey entertainments? Believe me, that stuff is explosively popular in countries with 90%+ black populations, too. Mad Lion, madder than Chuck Norris! As far as witch-hunting goes, this one sounds like an especially damp squib.

Here is what I imagine bigots think of Rogan: that he's a wop Jewish puppet cuck who hangs around with Ari Schaffir (kike) and Joey Diaz (spic) and Dave Chappelle (see last post) and Bill Burr (race traitor, first against the wall along with my old man), indulging in recreational drug use and preaching tolerance for degenerates of all stripes, the fags and the dykes and the cocksucking cumdumpsters ruining the fabric of society. He even platformed an avowedly socialist Jew.

Actually I don't have to imagine, that's the boilerplate alt-right opinion of the guy. This is partially why it's so ruefully amusing to see his would-be erasers finally pull the "he wacist tho" card. Like no, that's not gonna work here, accuse him of touching your butt or something.

The efficacy of these character assassinations is utterly irrelevant. It's the principle.

Perhaps, but methinks if you're going to stand so completely convinced that this whole thing is a deliberate hatchet job it's probably worth asking what the theoretical perpetrators might have hoped to accomplish with it in the first place.

What was Juicy Smouliet hoping for, with his harebrained skit straight from the minds of Chappelle & Brennan? Higher profile, race martyr status, all that good stuff, right? People do astonishingly cynical, outright stupid things in search of coveted prizes, whether pecuniary or ideological.

The better parallel here is probably the ongoing attempts to excise JK Rowling from her most popular work, because she won't say that women have penises. It's a doomed endeavour, obviously. God damn, they keep trying, though.

I've never met a free speech absolutist. I don't think they exist among polite society.

Oh, they're popping out all over the place these days, albeit with the Calvin and Hobbes-esque disclaimer of "not for everyone, you dolt! Just me!"

I usually ask them if yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theatre for mad likes is protected speech. Some will say yes, but they tend to be the kinds who indulge in paint-strippingly antisocial behaviour of all sorts, and would probably eat dogshit off the sidewalk John Waters-style if they thought it'd get them fame.

[BulletMagnet]

He's not being portrayed as a well-meaning but sometimes insensitive meathead.

Frankly I'm not sure I'd be so generous as to even apply the "well-meaning" label - I imagine very few people exist whose "voice" is truly their own when 100 mil has been paid for it by others, and that his particular brand of "astonishingly cynical, outright stupid things" are very much part of the included package - but as I said before, he's offered apologies and says he intends to implement certain changes, so all we can do is wait and see. As you acknowledge yourself, no matter how loudly anyone yells he isn't going anywhere, so one way or another we're all going to find out.

Are you saying he attracts racists with his meatheaded insouciance?

Not so much racists as political incorrectness fetishists, the "now that I know it upsets you, I'm just gonna do it more" types (there's certainly considerable overlap between said demographics, but that's neither here nor there). I can see a lot of people high-fiving him after the "Planet of the Apes" line and saying "you're the type of guy this sissy-ass country needs more of!"

[Nugs]

Of their circle, Anthony Cumia? Sure. I love the guy's bits, but I've no doubt he's entirely capable of going full Kramer. Pretty sure he's on record cheerfully admitting as much.

Cumia is a hardcore racist and he bites young women.
He's not going to get cancelled (apart from getting banned from twitter a dozen times) because no one cares about him anymore.

[BIL]

Oof, yeah. A man of many proclivities, is Anthony. Funny motherfucker, but it wouldn't surprise me if he pulled a Phil Spector at some point in his dotage.

Not so much racists as political incorrectness fetishists, the "now that I know it upsets you, I'm just gonna do it more" types (there's certainly considerable overlap between said demographics, but that's neither here nor there). I can see a lot of people high-fiving him after the "Planet of the Apes" line and saying "you're the type of guy this sissy-ass country needs more of!"

I hope you'd agree I'm pretty milquetoast as far as edgybois on the internet go. I do have an unhealthy obsession with Gynoug Dickman, and I do sometimes call people very rude names, but it's always in the defense of The Hard Gayming (and sometimes we get good intel out of it! ). Moreover, I try to respect master BLOODF and his chosen representatives like yourself. Bad form to piss on the host's rug, outside of true emergencies.

I realise this "loony left lmao" stuff looks ridiculous, at a glance, and I'd enjoy lampooning it even if I thought it was harmless - but I genuinely regard it as an early warning signal. (also, authoritarians as a rule cannot stand being mocked, so it's all good in the hood imo)

I hear your rates of urban black-on-black homicide have exploded, post-Floyd et al. I know on this side of the pond, a couple years back, we were being treated to a kind of Burgerland fanfic by frustrated white students, where armed cops were mowing down inner-city yoofs with abandon. In boring old reality, it's black kids stabbing one another at record rates, sometimes shooting. London A&E workers report the popular thing now is "bagging" - that's when you stab someone in their arsehole, so they need a colostomy bag. The little scamps, LMAO!

"It's racially-biased schooling to blame!" *African kids PWN white AND black British ones* "At least we're not racist!"

This moment died along with noted Angela Davis cosplayer Sasha Johnson's brain function, as she got her head blown apart at an early-morning party by intruding gangbangers. Diane Abbot, a race-grifting disgrace to West Indians the world over, briefly tried to say it was Nazis, but womp womp. Fellow Cuck Islanders: have you heard of Sasha, or seen her in the news lately? I check every week. Seems to have been memory-holed with a vengeance, being not merely useless but actively harmful to the ol' narrative.

I've no illusions (probably less illusions than you, actually, being from a country where homosexuals are tacitly regarded by the mainstream as fair game for murder by torture) about the horrific excesses of an unchecked extreme right. Unfortunately the extreme left is claiming its victims too - but I get the feeling that they're regarded as collateral, acceptable losses in the pursuit of some elusive paradise. As if a pile of dead babies becomes more or less atrocious depending on the intentions of the policies that put them in the line of fire.

And likewise, turning something very serious indeed, like racially-motivated hatred, into a cheap political trick to sabotage an inconveniently popular Rogan is fine, if it gets the job done. Never mind the damage done to society, we're gonna tear it all down anyway, mirite.

FWIW, despite all the shitposting I do, I'm not kidding when I say I see these antics (Justice For Juicy!) ending very badly. Falling off your bicycle tends to really fucking suck no matter which direction you over-corrected in.

[Blinge]

I love you bulletmagnet but by repeatedly stating that you know nothing of Rogan and don't listen to his podcast, well..

I guess you are the target audience of the hitpiece, and it's done exactly as intended