Unpopular opinion / Hot take thread - get it off your chest!

[copy-paster]

Analog with pressure-sensitive movement is fine, especially if the game supports them. I cleared hard shmups like Gradius IV and V using them.

[OmegaFlareX]

I agree about touchscreens, but I would like some more shmups with mouse controls. Well, only if they do hardware cursor.

[Jonpachi]

Analog with pressure-sensitive movement is fine, especially if the game supports them. I cleared hard shmups like Gradius IV and V using them.

Agree it's all about implementation. I was able to clear Pawarumi recently, and it required analogue. I took a bit to get used to, but it fit the game.

[BrianC]

I like glowing keyboard keys and those razer/kailh opto-mechanical switches. I like the cherry MX browns on the Filco quite a bit, but I'm not sure if I like them as much as the Outemu browns on the Havit wireless keyboard I bought. The outemu browns seem to be a slight bit more tactile. I prefer Cherry MX blues over the brown switches. Love that click.

Doh. Forgot this was in the shmups chat section and about shmups. While I usually prefer a pad or stick, I wouldn't mind giving some of these keyboards a try with shmups, especially the ones with clicky switches. Clicky sticks work best with shmups and clicky buttons are nice too.

[Blinge]

Or is that why people dont like it?

Yes.

aha yeah Gradius V, got my clear using a ps2 analog stick.
(and first ever 1cc: Progear, using the same stick on MAME, which i'm fond of retelling )
there's something wrong with me.

[Mischief Maker]

I prefer bat sticks to ball.

[Furry Fox Jet Pilot]

Garegga is the most overrated shmup of all time, and Batrider is way better.

Raiden Fighters Jet’s soundtrack is godawful trash. As much as I worship the series, this game’s soundtrack is one of the worst I’ve ever heard, even when compared to other games I’ve played outside of the genre. Anyone who thinks it’s good needs their ears checked.

The only good thing about Touhou is the music.

Strikers 1999 is better than Strikers 1945 II.

RefleX is better than Alltynex Second and Kamui.

[XoPachi]

I really can't stand Psikyo games. They are so bland to me.

Garegga is the most overrated shmup of all time, and Batrider is way better.

I wouldn't call Garegga overrated, but I do like Batrider (and GMD) a lot more. Especially in terms of art direction and general presentation. Far more clarity.

[Hornet]

- As much as I LOVE Thunder Force IV, I feel that Techno Soft's signature style peaked with Elemental Master. The pacing and "flow" of EM are just sublime, a nonstop rush. Fantastic game from beginning to end.

- Phalanx (SNES version) on upper two difficulties is legitimately one of my favorite 16bit shmups.

- Super Star Soldier > Soldier Blade. I also find the hard mode of SSS much more interesting compared to Soldier Blade's which turns the game into a bombfest.

- Task Force Harrier EX (Mega Drive) is kind of a hidden gem IMO. It feels like a unique take on the Toaplan formula and I always have a good time with it. Too bad it's ugly as sin.

- Daioh Gale (yeah, Athena's "sample game" inside the SFC version of Dezaemon) >>> 50% of Axelay and UN Squadron. "Sample game" or not, it has 6 stages, 3 difficulty levels and an arcade-style length that is on par with games like Sonic Wings and Batsugun. The only bad thing about Daioh Gale is that it makes you want to visit that parallel universe where the SNES version of Raiden was handled by Athena instead of Micronics.

- I'm still working on 1cc'ing it, but I doubt I'm going to change my mind about this, Final Blaster is Namco's best 16bit shmup and one of the best console shmups on the PCE/MD/SFC.

[Feedbacker]

Dimahoo scoring is good.

[XoPachi]

Dimahoo scoring is good.

???
Thats unpopular?
Im bad at it but i thought it was pretty nifty.

[Obiwanshinobi]

- Task Force Harrier EX (Mega Drive) is kind of a hidden gem IMO. It feels like a unique take on the Toaplan formula and I always have a good time with it. Too bad it's ugly as sin.

Amazing OST, but it owes its visual ugliness to ham-fisted porting of arcade graphics (backdrops, compressed rather than redrawn, stretched horizontally so the original's circles are now ovals). Arcade original (on MAME) impressed me graphically as anticipation of Gun Frontier, Battle Garegga and such (predates both), like a mosaic of reptile's scales.

[Obiwanshinobi]

[Never mind.]

[Feedbacker]

Dimahoo scoring is good.

???
Thats unpopular?
Im bad at it but i thought it was pretty nifty.

The game is well liked but its scoring is pretty unpopular i'd say. That's for the west btw, the game has a very lively scene in Japan these days, with several active streamers and scores and strats being posted daily on jp twitter. JHA also opened rankings very recently for the hidden characters.

[MathU]

I'm a pretty hardcore Dimahoo treasure collector (been lingering close to a full-collection clear of the game for a long time now) but even I have some rather large misgivings with its scoring system. The worst part about it is the location and activation of its in-stage item list. Averting my gaze from my player ship to check what items I still need probably results in half or more of my deaths across playthroughs. And while the system is pretty addictive and satisfying, I think the fact that it's so memorization-heavy is a pretty fair criticism. Also Dribling's stupid drill fairy can be infuriating sometimes due to its randomness and Mobi-chan's requirements are completely ridiculous.

[Feedbacker]

Yep it's memo heavy but that's not an issue for me, I like memorization in shmups. For the item lists I only check them during dead zones and I've learned exactly the number of presses I need to access the particular set list I need. As for Mobi-chan I don't bother getting it in stage 3 as the chests in stage 4 will drop it anyway. Getting it in the third stage is only required if you're aiming at the counterstop. I agree on Dribling though! I didn't see your name in the score board, I'd be curious to know what ship do you use and what's your hiscore with it.

[MathU]

Yeah I cross my fingers and hope to get Mobi-chan from the chests in stage 4 too, but exactly what legend item those drop is random and often unreliable.

I have the game pretty hardwired with Karte and find it difficult to hunt for treasure anywhere near as well with other characters. My current best with her is ~49 million, I must have done really well with the stage 4 chests in that attempt because it ended with several items less than my best item collection record.

[Feedbacker]

That's a nice score. I don't know anything about Karte, her searching option shot makes it seem difficult to be precise on item collection. I'm probably very wrong on that though.

[MathU]

52 million now

The worst part about it is the location and activation of its in-stage item list.

A few refreshing playthroughs and I'm now reminded and need to correct myself here. The item list system is bad but it's not the worst thing. The actual worst thing is being forced to avert your gaze to check on your charge shot level so that you can release it at the perfect time and get the right level of treasures to drop from enemies... while simultaneously trying to dodge things without looking near your ship. That is what actually gets me killed more than anything else. It's a good thing you can complete all the major item sets halfway through the game. Imagine if you had to do it throughout the later stages.

[XoPachi]

I dont know if these count as hot takes but I am so persnickety about what irks me in shooters. I'm talking things that dont really matter all that much.

I dont like playing as OR fighting people. I make exceptions but I want a machine blowing up huge machines! :C

I don't like the sound effects in a lot of new shooters. Compare SDOJ to R-Type 3, or Thunder Force 4. Outside of the explosions, nothing else in SDOJ (and many other new shooters) sounds as punchy and crazy. Especially weapon fire.

I like powerups! I get why a lot of shooters with a ship selection dont have them today and it makes a lot of great game design sense. But I like power ups! I like the satisfaction especially with a cool announcer going "POWER UP!" Its classic!

On that note I actually dont like a lot of voicing in shooters. I dont know why. Announcements for the player are fine. I mean in the sense of trying to push characters/narrative during a stage or pre boss dialogue. Raiden V, SDOJ, Ginga Force, Astebreed. Like shut the fuck up.

And finally I want my ships firing to *look* overpowered even if its not actually. The weapons in Devil Engine for instance look and sound so...anemic. Then you play Darius Gaiden and your ship looks unstoppable. That's what I want every game.

andfuckplayingaswaifus

[ChurchOfSolipsism]

I don't like the sound effects in a lot of new shooters. Compare SDOJ to R-Type 3, or Thunder Force 4. Outside of the explosions, nothing else in SDOJ (and many other new shooters) sounds as punchy and crazy. Especially weapon fire.

Yeah, time and again I return to SDOJ and find that design-wise, it's incredibly bland - music, sound effects, graphics, all of it is just boring and mushy. In most of the more recent Cave shmups it doesn't even feel like I'm really shooting at solid objects; SDOJ, FUkatsu, and Akai Katana are guilty of this.

On that note I actually dont like a lot of voicing in shooters.

Couldn't agree more; the first thing I do when I get a new shmup (which, of course, has lolis as its main characters) is I start looking for the "Turn voices off"-option in the, uh, options. "Stop aliens from destroying your world" is all the background story I need and want. Have to say I can't stand announcers, either; Donpachi and Blazing Star are near unplayable for me for this reason. Having to endure POWER UP!! or BONUS!!!! all the time breaks immersion and totally sucks the fun out of the games for me.

[XoPachi]

Yeah, time and again I return to SDOJ and find that design-wise, it's incredibly bland - music, sound effects, graphics, all of it is just boring and mushy. In most of the more recent Cave shmups it doesn't even feel like I'm really shooting at solid objects; SDOJ, FUkatsu, and Akai Katana are guilty of this.


Couldn't agree more; the first thing I do when I get a new shmup (which, of course, has lolis as its main characters) is I start looking for the "Turn voices off"-option in the, uh, options. "Stop aliens from destroying your world" is all the background story I need and want. Have to say I can't stand announcers, either; Donpachi and Blazing Star are near unplayable for me for this reason. Having to endure POWER UP!! or BONUS!!!! all the time breaks immersion and totally sucks the fun out of the games for me.

I still quite like SDOJ. Sound effects and waifu garbage aside, I thought the rest of the package was lovely. Though I do miss DoDonPachi 1's look a lot. The pixel art in that game is inspiring. I love the machines and general look of all the games, but 1's is my standout. It made me go on a spree of making machines myself hoping to get anywhere near the cool factor. The richness in detail is so powerful.

I can't stand narrative vocals in shooters because it's just...corny. And it's something I have to put an effort to tune out breaking my concentration if I don't or can't shut it off. I oddly like those repetitive announcements like "energy max/max chain" or "12" over and over in Ikaruga and XIIStag respectively. It also sort of helps keep me on track with what I'm doing. I think I like it most when the voices are incredibly synthesized like those games. ESPGaluda is another one that does this.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

But I like power ups! I like the satisfaction especially with a cool announcer going "POWER UP!" Its classic!

Very few things can top Batsugun's ridiculous LEVEL UP system that floods the screen with damage, makes you invulnerable, and transforms your ship. That stuff's rad. It can be a bit discouraging if the game heavily depowers you on death though.

On that note I actually dont like a lot of voicing in shooters. I dont know why.

I'm actually not that opposed to voicing in shmups. I didn't really mind SDOJ's chatting (was more offended by the creepy waifu focus), and hearing BOMBAAAAA repeatedly is pretty badass, but the caveat is you really should be able to mute/adjust voice volume separately, cause heavily voiced shmups do tend to lead to polarizing opinions.

And finally I want my ships firing to *look* overpowered even if its not actually. The weapons in Devil Engine for instance look and sound so...anemic. Then you play Darius Gaiden and your ship looks unstoppable. That's what I want every game.

Yeah, if your weapon looks or feels weak, it sucks a lot of the excitement away. It feels wrong, and takes away from what could otherwise be an exciting boss battle. You can make a powerful-looking shot type that looks and feels fun to use while still balancing the game around it. Batsugun again is a great example, as maxed out all three shots are a visual lightshow that look insanely cool (Type A is actually rather weak, but it still looks neat). There's some cinematic exceptions such as the TLB of Strania where you're purposefully in a... depowered state. Even something simple like Judgement Silversword's basic straight shot looks cool because of how rapidly it fires, how it feels, and how it sounds (and that's before using the wide shot overlap). That's one of my main complaints with the recent update to Monolith, the changes to ammo rebalancing means you're easily losing your ammo and facing the new content's epic bosses with the basic peashooter weapon during the climax of the fights. Considering the peashooter was originally the decent, but mundane punishment weapon you ended up with if you couldn't keep your ammo reserves up (and you could reliably do so with sufficient skill prior to the DLC), it's a bit lame knowing you're almost always going to end up fighting superbosses with something fairly pathetic-looking that makes "putt putt putt" noises. Doesn't make the fight feel as impressive as it should, compared to something like Dodonpachi where the laser is as visually exciting at the start of the game as it is when punching through Hibachi's guts.

I still quite like SDOJ. Sound effects and waifu garbage aside, I thought the rest of the package was lovely.

Yeah, I'm actually quite fond of the game, waifu elements and input lag notwithstanding. I actually really like the aesthetics and the strong use of blues/teals in the colour scheme.

[BulletMagnet]

Very few things can top Batsugun's ridiculous LEVEL UP system that floods the screen with damage, makes you invulnerable, and transforms your ship. That stuff's rad. It can be a bit discouraging if the game heavily depowers you on death though.

I always thought Batsugun's system was a well-executed "compromise" in this area - you've still got "traditional" power-ups you lose when you die, but once you "level up" it never goes away, so while you're still penalized for dying (and have a greater power trip to work towards) you're also largely guaranteed to never be completely screwed over by an untimely "zigged, shoulda zagged".

[XoPachi]

Yeah, I'm actually quite fond of the game, waifu elements and input lag notwithstanding.

Not to keep a focus on my post for much longer and I know I've been harping on the topic a bit lately, but I wanna say...
I'm actually very surprised that I'm apparently far from the only one at least mildly annoyed with the overwhelming presence of anime waifus in this genre. I figured everyone was all over it though and I was just the weird one.

[donluca]

Not to keep a focus on my post for much longer and I know I've been harping on the topic a bit lately, but I wanna say...
I'm actually very surprised that I'm apparently far from the only one at least mildly annoyed with the overwhelming presence of anime waifus in this genre. I figured everyone was all over it though and I was just the weird one.

There's definitely lots of people annoyed by this.

I blame Touhou.

[trap15]

Put the blame where it lies, on the trends in Japanese nerd culture. They wouldn't do it if it didn't improve sales.

[Klatrymadon]

That's true, but regardless of its source I think it's still important to be self-critical in regard to consuming this stuff. Personally, it's not something I want to turn a blind eye to or shrug my shoulders at and say "what can ya do?" - I try to actively avoid supporting those shmups that feature e.g. sexualisation of characters that look like toddlers, and really wish the wider community scrutinised more seriously the material they're/we're helping to perpetuate...

[XoPachi]

There's definitely lots of people annoyed by this.

I blame Touhou.

I avoid Touhou for this reason. But oddly enough I'm fine with Touhou existing. Its not overtly creepy about it. It was a unique change at the time. And also that was Touhou's shtick from the jump. Touhou wasnt about ships blasting other ships and then decided they wanted 9 jailbait, Hatsune Miku look alikes the 3rd entry in and forward.

[donluca]

Put the blame where it lies, on the trends in Japanese nerd culture. They wouldn't do it if it didn't improve sales.

Yes, of course, I just wanted to point out where the "loli in shmups" idea started (IMHO).

And I agree with Klatrymadon.