OSSC Pro

[Guspaz]

I believe it was demonstrated on Discord that your PC is not sending 960p120 to the TV, but 960p in a 1080p120 window. The RT4K (and I assume the OSSC Pro) can replicate whatever timings you want, so if you'd like to replicate exactly what your PC is doing, you can do so with either device. It's not 960p120, though.

[Paranoid_Andy]

Okay I see why you were thinking that. I had went back a second time to make sure it was able to get an actual 960p@120Hz instead of painting it on a 1080p frame and it worked.

However before I was going to respond to you just now, I decided to test it once more to make sure and I'm glad I did. It "seems" when NVidia outputs a resolution, if the display is not happy with it I guess.. it automatically changes to something that the display will be happy with. So in effect, I tricked myself and thought it was working, when indeed, it was not.

So long story short, it looks as the 960p@60Hz is fine because the TV information section shows that it works, but when I FINALLY got a real unmodified 960@120Hz, it's saying invalid format. So it appears it will not work.

That's very disappointing, but it is what it is and I have learned from this experience.

I really appreciate everyone's help and I'm sorry for any time wasted on the issue. I'll continue to try to educate myself on this stuff so hopefully I can avoid more mistakes in the future.

Thank you again.

[Das Muel]

Still massively enjoying my OSSC Pro and getting some wonderful captures from it for my little Youtube channel.

I understand it's not a priority but is there any possibility of HDR10 output or gamma-corrected HLG further down the line or is that beyond the hardware?

[defected78]

lucky you.

Still out of stock.

[ryu]

Still massively enjoying my OSSC Pro and getting some wonderful captures from it for my little Youtube channel.

Please tell me the OSSC Pro has screen capture built in.

[LDigital]

Still massively enjoying my OSSC Pro and getting some wonderful captures from it for my little Youtube channel.

I understand it's not a priority but is there any possibility of HDR10 output or gamma-corrected HLG further down the line or is that beyond the hardware?

Me too, I will be glad when more people can get their hands on one. It’s absolutely incredible.

I have been using mine mainly as a downscaler to my bvm. It is incredibly powerful.

I have been playing pixel perfect 240p Tate mode Ketsui / Mushihimesama an others from my ps5 and switch. It’s as close to the real arcade experience as I am going to get without a cave pcb setup.

[marqs]

I understand it's not a priority but is there any possibility of HDR10 output or gamma-corrected HLG further down the line or is that beyond the hardware?

It is possible to change tone response via remap LUTs per component, but the output remains 8bpc so the whole point of HDR remains questionable.

Please tell me the OSSC Pro has screen capture built in.

There are plans to add screenshot feature (saved to SD card) and develop expansion card with USB video bridge (i.e. video capture to PC).

The Pro boards are now back in stock and next firmware is currently under testing. It will include output preset editor among some minor improvements. The preset editor is mainly for people with more exotic or legacy displays or those who want to test limits of their monitor. Previously there were requests to add presets for some older 1024x768 / 1366x768 plasmas which can be now easily done by modifying closest existing presets like below:
1024x768: Adv. disp timing (1024x768_60) -> Display AR = 16:9
1366x768: Adv. disp timing (720p_60) -> Timing params adjusted to suit the display

[Guspaz]

It is possible to change tone response via remap LUTs per component, but the output remains 8bpc so the whole point of HDR remains questionable.

The primary purpose of HDR output on a retro scaler is the increased brightness, not the increased bit depth. People aren't going to notice much difference between 8bpc and 10bpc, especially when the sources may be running at substantially lower than 8bpc to begin with.

[tongshadow]

What causes the strange colors with HDR HLG then? Because I can definitely notice how wrong the yellows and reds look, despite increased brightness.

[bobrocks95]

What causes the strange colors with HDR HLG then? Because I can definitely notice how wrong the yellows and reds look, despite increased brightness.

I don't believe the OSSC Pro currently has any color correction for HDR. When you're redefining primaries in another colorspace it's going to look off unless you color correct.

[marqs]

What causes the strange colors with HDR HLG then? Because I can definitely notice how wrong the yellows and reds look, despite increased brightness.

I don't believe the OSSC Pro currently has any color correction for HDR. When you're redefining primaries in another colorspace it's going to look off unless you color correct.

The color space should not be changed by HDR. Perhaps the display just wrongly assumes Rec.2020 with HLG even though it should stick to Rec.601/709 as indicated in metadata.

[bobrocks95]

I'm probably using the wrong terminology Marqs. Whatever the Tink 4K is doing for HDR color correction to not make everything look oversaturated once HDR is activated.

[marqs]

I'm probably using the wrong terminology Marqs. Whatever the Tink 4K is doing for HDR color correction to not make everything look oversaturated once HDR is activated.

Can you manually change the color space in display to rule out it messing things up?

[BuckoA51]

It's not due to the wrong colour space, this problem affects all devices doing a simple SDR to HDR conversion, only really the RT4k has managed to correct for it so far.

[Shelcoof]

Marqs

Can the OSSC Pro downscale 1080p to 1080i to be used with an HD CRT?

Also when can we expect an analogue component output add on?

Btw my OSSC Pro was shipped Yesterday
Super excited

[mikechi2]

Wobbling Pixels asked me to give a quick run down of how the colorspace should be ideally handled for HDR.

In short you would need to perform inverse gamma correction to convert the incoming RGB data (Rec. 709) into the linear light domain. Here you can then apply a 3x3 CSC matrix transform to convert Rec. 709 -> Rec. 2020.

At this point, you have a Rec. 2020 a signal in linear light. You can apply regular gamma to map it to Rec. 2020 SDR or apply a perceptual quantizer to map signal to Rec 2100 HDR. Either way, it's just another LUT.

In terms of resources, I've found that it is not too bad. Basically two sets of LUTs. One for the inverse gamma, and a second for gamma or PQ plus 27 multipliers. Ideally, you'd want the intermediate stage to be more than 8-bits to avoid excessive quantization at the low end, so your second stage LUT will need top be bigger than first. But either way, the amount of memory used is modest. To minimize the amount of code that needs to be run on the CPU, you could precompute the LUTs, store them to the SD card and upload them on demand.

[jaffa225man]

Marqs

Can the OSSC Pro downscale 1080p to 1080i to be used with an HD CRT?

1080i_50 and 1080i_60 are both listed as output modes for all output choices (Pure LM, Adaptive LM & Scaler) in the file here, so I expect so:
https://github.com/marqs85/ossc_pro/blo ... list.c#L83

Also when can we expect an analogue component output add on?

In the newsletter at https://videogameperfection.com/2024/03 ... letter-23/, it says this:
Design and testing of the Extra AV Out is complete and we had hoped to bring it out along with batch 2 of the OSSC Pro. Unfortunately some delays in securing components mean it is now expected around early April.

Edit: The actual component output board (the extension to this Extra AV Out) is vaguer with that newsletter saying "later this year", but I expect it's mostly compatible with the one marqs already had developed for the DExx-vd_isl, if you want to build it yourself as I did: viewtopic.php?p=1503352#p1503352
Better still, you could build the latest revisions available from the link on the wiki!: https://junkerhq.net//xrgb/index.php?ti ... AV_adapter

Btw my OSSC Pro was shipped Yesterday
Super excited

Mine was this morning, so me too!

Wobbling Pixels asked me to give a quick run down of how the colorspace should be ideally handled for HDR.

In short you would need to perform inverse gamma correction to convert the incoming RGB data (Rec. 709) into the linear light domain. Here you can then apply a 3x3 CSC matrix transform to convert Rec. 709 -> Rec. 2020.

At this point, you have a Rec. 2020 a signal in linear light. You can apply regular gamma to map it to Rec. 2020 SDR or apply a perceptual quantizer to map signal to Rec 2100 HDR. Either way, it's just another LUT.

In terms of resources, I've found that it is not too bad. Basically two sets of LUTs. One for the inverse gamma, and a second for gamma or PQ plus 27 multipliers. Ideally, you'd want the intermediate stage to be more than 8-bits to avoid excessive quantization at the low end, so your second stage LUT will need top be bigger than first. But either way, the amount of memory used is modest. To minimize the amount of code that needs to be run on the CPU, you could precompute the LUTs, store them to the SD card and upload them on demand.

Not that I could put that to use, but I certainly appreciate you helping out here! Thank you!

[fernan1234]

Mike out here sharing the HDR secret sauce with other scalers. A true champion of the people.

Proper HDR plus analog out will really make the OSSC Pro a compelling all-rounder.

[marqs]

As mentioned previously in the thread, I've been considering adding standard color management hardware on the output path, consisting of de-gamma LUTs, CSC matrix and gamma LUTs as described by Mike above. That could be used for Rec.709 -> Rec. 2020 conversion among other things, but mapping standard gamut into wide gamut on 24bpp output is not very good idea in my opinion as you end up not utilizing large part of the precious color code range. My thinking has been on preserving the gamut/primaries while only changing the tone response function (i.e. gamma), but based on above comments usual TVs do not process this correctly despite having the necessary info in metadata, and perhaps in worst case not even providing an option for user to set color space manually. I have no problem setting Rec.709 primaries with HDR on my Panasonic OLED, but perhaps that's an exception...

[LDigital]

Marqs

Can the OSSC Pro downscale 1080p to 1080i to be used with an HD CRT?

Also when can we expect an analogue component output add on?

Btw my OSSC Pro was shipped Yesterday
Super excited

It works, I have the pro and a prototype av out board and it definitely works outputting common sub 1080p resolutions. I am using mine connected to my bvm for 240p and 480i downscale for pixel perfect shmup tate mode from my switch and ps5. It’s glorious playing M2 ports pixel perfect on the correct display type.

[Shelcoof]

Marqs

Can the OSSC Pro downscale 1080p to 1080i to be used with an HD CRT?

Also when can we expect an analogue component output add on?

Btw my OSSC Pro was shipped Yesterday
Super excited

It works, I have the pro and a prototype av out board and it definitely works outputting common sub 1080p resolutions. I am using mine connected to my bvm for 240p and 480i downscale for pixel perfect shmup tate mode from my switch and ps5. It’s glorious playing M2 ports pixel perfect on the correct display type.

Nice
Thanks for confirming this
I love using my Sony 955 HD CRT at 1080i aa there is no lag and at 1080i it's looking it's sharpest

[mikechi2]

As mentioned previously in the thread, I've been considering adding standard color management hardware on the output path, consisting of de-gamma LUTs, CSC matrix and gamma LUTs as described by Mike above. That could be used for Rec.709 -> Rec. 2020 conversion among other things, but mapping standard gamut into wide gamut on 24bpp output is not very good idea in my opinion as you end up not utilizing large part of the precious color code range. My thinking has been on preserving the gamut/primaries while only changing the tone response function (i.e. gamma), but based on above comments usual TVs do not process this correctly despite having the necessary info in metadata, and perhaps in worst case not even providing an option for user to set color space manually. I have no problem setting Rec.709 primaries with HDR on my Panasonic OLED, but perhaps that's an exception...

The loss of code range is not bad, when I compare the 10-bit mode versus 8-bit mode post Rec. 2020 conversion. One thing to keep in mind is that your source is often low bit depth graphics, plus faux-HDR is really only suitable for scanline effects (which have a side effect of adding a form of dithering). Proper Rec. 2020/2100 output is significantly more compatible, as that's what HDR10 and I believe HLG are specc'ed for.

What I have found painful was maintaing a high bit depth linear light processing pipeline, but it is not bad if you are converting the colorspace near the output stage since the bit expansion happens for just a brief moment and doesn't eat up memory.

[windaddy01]

Will the final version of the official OSSC pro AV Out expansion board output pinout be similar or the same as the Mister Analog IO board?

When YPbPr out is available in the OSSC Pro firmware can I use a VGA to YPbPr cable meant for the Mister Analog IO board like this one https://misteraddons.com/products/vga-y ... deo-cables or will only be compatible with the official OSSC Pro AV Input/Output Adapter?

Will a vga to scart cable meant for the Mister Analog IO board work with the OSSC pro AV Out expansion board like this one https://misteraddons.com/products/vga-t ... deo-cables?

Is there any eta of when YPbP will be add to the OSSC Pro firmware and is there a time frame for when the official OSSC Pro AV Input/Output Adapter will be available to buy?

also will the OSSC pro AV Out expansion board and/or official OSSC Pro AV Input/Output Adapter be able to handle 1080i or 1080p out?

Thanks in advance

[marqs]

Will the final version of the official OSSC pro AV Out expansion board output pinout be similar or the same as the Mister Analog IO board?

Its connectivity should be similar enough that you can use the 2 listed cables.

Is there any eta of when YPbP will be add to the OSSC Pro firmware and is there a time frame for when the official OSSC Pro AV Input/Output Adapter will be available to buy?

Plan was to include a basic RGB->YPbPr CSC matrix in v0.75, but now that there are requests for more comprehensive color management solution, I have to see what can be done by its release. The main feature for 0.75 will be added support for the legacy AV input card (CVBS & S-video for now).

also will the OSSC pro AV Out expansion board and/or official OSSC Pro AV Input/Output Adapter be able to handle 1080i or 1080p out?

Yes.

[ark125]

In the description for the Extra AV output in the junkerhq.net, says that the supported video formats are: RGBHV, RGBCS (TTL csync) and YPbPr.

Does that mean that it will be a RGB a YPbPr, or YPbPr to RGB conversion? In that case, it will automatically switch between Rec. 601 and rec. 701 for the different resolutions?

Apart from that, it will be possible to add RGsB output for the BVM Owners?

Thanks.

[LDigital]

In the description for the Extra AV output in the junkerhq.net, says that the supported video formats are: RGBHV, RGBCS (TTL csync) and YPbPr.

Does that mean that it will be a RGB a YPbPr, or YPbPr to RGB conversion? In that case, it will automatically switch between Rec. 601 and rec. 701 for the different resolutions?

Apart from that, it will be possible to add RGsB output for the BVM Owners?

Thanks.

It already works with BVM

[windaddy01]

Will the final version of the official OSSC pro AV Out expansion board output pinout be similar or the same as the Mister Analog IO board?

Its connectivity should be similar enough that you can use the 2 listed cables.

Is there any eta of when YPbP will be add to the OSSC Pro firmware and is there a time frame for when the official OSSC Pro AV Input/Output Adapter will be available to buy?

Plan was to include a basic RGB->YPbPr CSC matrix in v0.75, but now that there are requests for more comprehensive color management solution, I have to see what can be done by its release. The main feature for 0.75 will be added support for the legacy AV input card (CVBS & S-video for now).

also will the OSSC pro AV Out expansion board and/or official OSSC Pro AV Input/Output Adapter be able to handle 1080i or 1080p out?

Yes.

Out of curiosity will the official OSSC Pro extra AV Out expansion board and AV Input/Output Adapter be able to output with a 24bit color depth or will it have a 18bit color depth limit like the Mister Analog IO board has?

Thanks in advance

[marqs]

In the description for the Extra AV output in the junkerhq.net, says that the supported video formats are: RGBHV, RGBCS (TTL csync) and YPbPr.

Does that mean that it will be a RGB a YPbPr, or YPbPr to RGB conversion? In that case, it will automatically switch between Rec. 601 and rec. 701 for the different resolutions?

Apart from that, it will be possible to add RGsB output for the BVM Owners?

All video processing is in RGB domain so YPbPr output needs conversion. Applied CSC matrix coefficients (Rec. 601 / 709) could be eventually automated just like for YPbPb inputs. RGsB is already supported and wikipage is now updated accordingly.

Out of curiosity will the official OSSC Pro extra AV Out expansion board and AV Input/Output Adapter be able to output with a 24bit color depth or will it have a 18bit color depth limit like the Mister Analog IO board has?

The path to DAC is 24bpp.

[orange808]

Will a future unit be available with analog out installed?

[windaddy01]

Can the Extra AV Out and Legacy AV Input Expansion Cards be used at the same time and if so is there any downsides to using them both at the same time?\

Thanks in advance