Analogue Pocket (FPGA GB/GBC/GBA/NGP/LYNX)

[bobrocks95]

Going to repost and say that the dock mockup looks really dumb, and that it'll probably be even more fiddly and wobbly to swap carts out than a docked Switch, if they go for a standing vertical look like that.

[Guspaz]

I imagine the thing will run at the exact original refresh rate in all cases except when connected to the dock (and perhaps the DAC). I doubt they'd have any issue running the panel at 59.7Hz, they're not fixed refresh rate panels, Valve runs them at up to 144Hz.

Not thrilled with the dock design, yeah. I'd prefer something where you slide it in to a receptacle or groove horizontally rather than vertically. Screen-down so that the screen is protected and so that you could swap cartridges without undocking the unit.

[BONKERS]

This looks as cheap, ugly and unergonomic as all those cheap chinsese handhelds out there now. (The RetroFlag GPi is the only one that keeps the DMG form factor and puts the should buttons in an ergonomic place)

Jesus would it kill you to make it bigger or push the buttons in another inch or 2 so (So much wasted space) those of us who aren't 12 years old won't get hand pain from trying to grip this?
Getting pretty tired of handhelds the last few years putting buttons right at the edge of the device. What is so wrong with a slightly bigger handheld that is actually comfortable to hold? (I'd rather have the size of the DMG. Landscape or portrait as it still pocketable)


Also: They should've gone with a 2160x1440 screen IMO. This would allow perfect scaling of everything from 160,240,256 and 320 width sources. I'd rather have pillarboxing for everything but GBA than interpolation and scaling for GBA games and get perfect scaling for all out of it instead.
And if this is such a "pro display", it better come color correction modes and ways to simulate the sub pixel structure of original displays. Which I doubt it will. I'm sure we'll get pea green palettes but not the dot matrix pixel structure of some kind. (Especially rendering at that high of a resolution)

And their typical insulting marketing nonsense about Emulation is not surprising.

[Guspaz]

This thing has twice the pixel density of a modern smartphone. There is zero benefit to higher resolutions. Perfect scaling is not required with 615 PPI. Are there even any 2160x1440 screens on the market in that size? They lucked out with 1600x1440 since they could borrow the screens from the Valve Index.

[Lawfer]

I also have some cool new stuff planned, both Consolizer updates and new products in the pipeline.

3DS consolizer.

[ZellSF]

Just to repeat Guspaz, but I really fail the point of getting a different resolution screen for the sake of perfect GBA scaling, with a this high DPI screen I refuse to believe you're even able to see the scaling errors.

I'm struggling to see a 6X+bilinear scale as anything else than a pixel perfect picture at 163 DPI. I'm not saying others can't tell the difference at 163 DPI, they might have better eyes than me, but 615 PPI? If I knew you IRL I'd probably bet a lot of money that you couldn't ABX test that.

[thebigcheese]

I mean it's economics. They picked a screen that's readily available (aka cheaper to get) and happens to scale well with all resolutions. Yes, GBA is going to be smaller and bars, but everything else will fill most of the screen with perfect scaling, meaning no shimmering etc. It's the least amount of work for them, so it costs us the least. Sure, they could have created a custom screen for it, but then it would cost $100 more at least, probably.

[ZellSF]

I mean it's economics. They picked a screen that's readily available (aka cheaper to get) and happens to scale well with all resolutions. Yes, GBA is going to be smaller and bars, but everything else will fill most of the screen with perfect scaling, meaning no shimmering etc.

The GBA will also have perfect scaling.

Maybe not technically, but in the only way that matters (humans looking at it), it will be perfect.

[donluca]

FPGA discussion split into its own thread here. Try to keep it civil, folks.

I'm not one to argue with mod decisions (your house, your rules), but as I stated in the splitted thread, that should REALLY be here and not in off-topic.

It's about hardware.
For fuck sake, you can't get more hardware about talking the differences between an FPGA and a general purpose PC and how it affects emulation.

Please, bring it here, because the information in it is important and we can't let people still think in 2019 that FPGA is the cure to all emulation issues.

[fernan1234]

Would GBA scaling still look "perfect" on this screen even if a pixel grid overlay is used (if one is available)?

[tusecsy]

First impression, amazing.

Second impression, damn this thing looks too small for my hands. It's been downhill since the OG gameboy, why not make something for people who aren't asian or 5 years old?

Third impression, gonna be at least 2-3 years before we get that dock in our hands if the DAC is any indication.

Once the dock, cores, 400$, and everything else are all in play though this thing will be the ultimate for handheld to tv goodness.

PS Why does Analogue keep insisting this "isn't emulation". When it literally is emulation? I'm a huge FPGA guy don't get me wrong I'm not a big proponent of original hardware but this just seems like a straight up 100% lie?

[nmalinoski]

PS Why does Analogue keep insisting this "isn't emulation". When it literally is emulation? I'm a huge FPGA guy don't get me wrong I'm not a big proponent of original hardware but this just seems like a straight up 100% lie?

Because there's a difference between running original firmware and software entirely in software, where everything generally shares the same thread, and using field-programmable hardware to simulate and/or physically model the original chips, which would not be susceptible to changes in resource allocation from a host platform; and a lot of people, mostly having experience only with software emulation, just slap the "emulation" label on anything that isn't original hardware without accounting for the nuance between approaches.

[orange808]

PS Why does Analogue keep insisting this "isn't emulation". When it literally is emulation? I'm a huge FPGA guy don't get me wrong I'm not a big proponent of original hardware but this just seems like a straight up 100% lie?

Because there's a difference between running original firmware and software entirely in software, where everything generally shares the same thread, and using field-programmable hardware to simulate and/or physically model the original chips, which would not be susceptible to changes in resource allocation from a host platform; and a lot of people, mostly having experience only with software emulation, just slap the "emulation" label on anything that isn't original hardware without accounting for the nuance between approaches.

Feed an illegal opcode into this machine from a homebrew and watch it choke--until a hack patch is released to make it work again.

Of course, I'm staying completely out of "off topic" discussion. Just discussing the device, now.

[ZellSF]

Would GBA scaling still look "perfect" on this screen even if a pixel grid overlay is used (if one is available)?

That depends on what sort of pixel grid overlay, and a lot of other factors. Not so easy to answer that.

[Fudoh]

at least both the FPGA and the display have enough resources to make it look good utilizing a grid like feature. I mean it already looks great on the GBA consolizer and that's running with 720p "only".

[Guspaz]

Third impression, gonna be at least 2-3 years before we get that dock in our hands if the DAC is any indication.

The dock is launching/shipping at the same time as the console, only the price is currently TBD.

[Windfish]

Supposing you already have GCN + GB Player + GBI + OSSC AND SP-AGS-101, is there much reason to get this for the GameBoy aspect?

[ZellSF]

Supposing you already have GCN + GB Player + GBI + OSSC AND SP-AGS-101, is there much reason to get this for the GameBoy aspect?

Better audio/video quality?

[Windfish]

Supposing you already have GCN + GB Player + GBI + OSSC AND SP-AGS-101, is there much reason to get this for the GameBoy aspect?

Better audio/video quality?

Maybe?

One thing for sure is that it's a lot less overhead in terms of components/set up.

[tusecsy]

Third impression, gonna be at least 2-3 years before we get that dock in our hands if the DAC is any indication.

The dock is launching/shipping at the same time as the console, only the price is currently TBD.

wanna bet?

[ahaddow]

While yeah the marketing/price/shipping (I will be shipping one to Japan so ... oof) is questionable, I'm definitely really excited about this thing. I am curious when the other cores will become available.
Even out of the box, since I only own a GBA Everdrive, I could get a lot of value out of this thing with the theoretical jailbreak. Double that for every other core that gets released for it.
So, I'm curious, since I believe the Mega SG and Super NT use the same Cyclone chip, is there a reason noone has been able to port the cores over to the opposite console? I would guess there isn't enough room on the FPGA to run them simultaenously but, just in theory would it be possible to port the Mega SG and Super NT cores over to the Pocket?
Since Kevtris is a known quantity and his cores are well tested, that would be pretty stellar.
I think I saw Guspaz post elsewhere that the secondary FPGA might be the only one open to third party devs, and that it will be a lot lower in power than the main chip. That would be too bad, but even if this thing could be made to do accurate 8bit consoles that would be great.
Anyway, concerns over battery life, cramped buttons, etc.

[Unseen]

just in theory would it be possible to port the Mega SG and Super NT cores over to the Pocket?

Yes - if you have the source code for the cores. Reverse engineering an entire core from just a final bitstream is possible in theory, but as far as I know it has never been demonstrated in practice - and that is under the assumption that the bitstream is unencrypted.

[Wolf_]

just in theory would it be possible to port the Mega SG and Super NT cores over to the Pocket?

Yes - if you have the source code for the cores. Reverse engineering an entire core from just a final bitstream is possible in theory, but as far as I know it has never been demonstrated in practice - and that is under the assumption that the bitstream is unencrypted.

I would say it is unlikely. What would be possible, and exponentially easier, is porting most of the MiSTer cores to it depending on how much resources are available for developers.

[spmbx]

So where are the gba carts supposed to fit? The renders just show an ogb cart inserted, but the space seems too small to insert a gba cart.

[ZellSF]

So where are the gba carts supposed to fit? The renders just show an ogb cart inserted, but the space seems too small to insert a gba cart.

Umm... GBA carts are smaller than OGB carts.

[spmbx]

I guess my memory is failing me. I only have a dmg with some carts and no gba carts in the house. Google tells me you are most likely right

[Guspaz]

I think I saw Guspaz post elsewhere that the secondary FPGA might be the only one open to third party devs, and that it will be a lot lower in power than the main chip. That would be too bad, but even if this thing could be made to do accurate 8bit consoles that would be great.

Kevtris later clarified on Discord that it was the primary FPGA that developers had access to; Taber is just wording things poorly. What they mean to say is that the smaller secondary FPGA lets them offload all the proprietary stuff that cores need, like video scaling/output (and presumably the UI), so that developers can do their thing with the primary core without needing any Analogue IP.

I suspect that they actually needed the second FPGA to fit the GBA in the Cyclone V, and opening it up for developers was just a side benefit.

[MidOrFeed2015]

I feel kind of bad for Woozle, becaue it's a really great product.

I wouldn't, the GBA Consolizer has done better than I expected and I learned a lot working on it

I also have some cool new stuff planned, both Consolizer updates and new products in the pipeline. I teased the updated GBA Consolizer enclosure in a tweet https://twitter.com/Woozle64/status/118 ... 68352?s=20

new stuff? hopefully 3DS consolizer!

[Lawfer]

I am planning on getting both a GBA Consolizer and an Analogue Pocket, GBA Consolizer is original hardware and that is my preferred option, but the Analogue Pocket would be interesting because it plays many platforms and it will offer 240p with the console original refresh rates with the Analogue DAC, though I am not a big fan of Hardware Simulators, but getting 240p on a CRT with the original refresh rates for 5 different platforms is definitly a plus.

[fernan1234]

though I am not a big fan of Hardware Simulators, but getting 240p on a CRT with the original refresh rates for 5 different platforms is definitly a plus.

I feel the same way, though at that point, and given that lag is not that critical in most handheld games, I feel we're better served with a Pi outputting 240p. In terms of emulation accuracy I don't think the FPGA cores do anything better over the mature Retroarch cores except for the lag.

If I get a Pocket it'll be for the portable screen as long as it can look authentic. The GBA consolizer on the other hand is a sure purchase eventually when sellers have it on hand. I only wish there could be an option for original refresh rate output with it. Maybe that'll be one of the updates Woozle mentioned?