Retrotek Products

[Fusion916]

I have moved my products off ebay and will be selling them now directly from my website.

https://www.retrotekshop.com/products

I have been off ebay for about 2 months now and finally have my products available again. The previous converters have gone through a design refresh and now have a plug and play TG16 amp available.

[RGB0b]

Have you fixed the power issues?

...and you never replied to any of my emails about your old converter (the one that failed when put on a scope). Should I just throw it out? Mail it back?

[ldeveraux]

Have you fixed the power issues?

...and you never replied to any of my emails about your old converter (the one that failed when put on a scope). Should I just throw it out? Mail it back?

So between this (SCART-Comp) and the Shinybow, you'd have to recommend the Shinybow?

[Fusion916]

Have you fixed the power issues?

...and you never replied to any of my emails about your old converter (the one that failed when put on a scope). Should I just throw it out? Mail it back?

There have never been any power issues. I don't need the old one you can get rid of it.

[fuchi_jeg]

That's good news. Congrats! I saw that your products weren't available on ebay anymore, and wondered what happened. I have your vgactv transcoder, and it's well worth the price for what it does.

[RGB0b]

There have never been any power issues.

So, what were all the issues then? Do you have scope captures showing all the issues from before and after that are fixed? Most importantly:

How on earth can you possibly justify such a high price, when the shinybow is just a few dollars more and never had any of the issues your product did?

I was "on your side" for quite a while, but your attitude and price speak for itself. BTW, Mike Chi's product is coming soon...how are you planning on competing with that?

[Lawfer]

Mike Chi's product? This?

https://twitter.com/retrotink2/status/1 ... 7674228736

[nmalinoski]

I didn't see any details on resolution regarding Mike Chi's solution (not sure if the fact that it's an analogue circuit has any bearing on the subject), but the one thing that Retrotek's VGA to component transcoder has over everything else is that it can handle everything from 240p to 1080p. If that hardware or a variant thereof were put into his SCART to component transcoder, then it would be more capable than the Shinybow, which tops out at 480p, and I believe other solutions are limited to 15kHz modes.

Speaking of higher-resolution modes, does the VGACTV2 correctly use Rec.601 for SD and ED modes, and Rec.709 for HD modes?

[mikechi2]

analogue circuit has any bearing on the subject), but the one thing that Retrotek's VGA to component transcoder has over everything else is that it can handle everything from 240p to 1080p. If that hardware or a variant thereof were put into his SCART to component transcoder, then it would be more capable than the Shinybow, which tops out at 480p, and I believe other solutions are limited to 15kHz modes.

S

AFAIK, all these various designs are all analog transcoders. So any input from 240p to 1080i and everything in between will be transcoded. The only potential issues are (1) resolutions beyond 480p call for a bi-phasic sync pulse, which none of these devices can do. Having said that, I haven't seen this to cause a compatibility issue in practice. (2) I'm pretty sure all the analog transcoder circuits are using the Rec.601 coefficients, with no way of switching to 709. Also depending on the bandwidth of the circuit, high frequency details may get lost and artifacts may appear at sharp color boundries (check green-magenta) at higher resolutions.

[maxtherabbit]

There have never been any power issues.

So, what were all the issues then? Do you have scope captures showing all the issues from before and after that are fixed? Most importantly:

How on earth can you possibly justify such a high price, when the shinybow is just a few dollars more and never had any of the issues your product did?

I was "on your side" for quite a while, but your attitude and price speak for itself. BTW, Mike Chi's product is coming soon...how are you planning on competing with that?

could you please elaborate on what these issues are exactly so the rest of us can have a frame of reference?

[orange808]

The Kramer FC-14 is the other option, here. According to the official specs, the Kramer FC-14 handles signals "above" 480p and goes all the way to 720p or 1080i. Most displays won't accept 1080p on component, anyhow.

https://www.fullcompass.com/common/file ... Manual.pdf

I am using an Extron RGB and a Kramer FC-14 and they outperform the Shinybow in my setup. To be fair, I haven't tried the Retrotek. I also haven't noticed the issues Mike mentions (with the FC-14), but that could be because I'm a pleb.

It would be great if we could identify an inexpensive and readily available solution that matches or exceeds the FC-14's performance and features; I believe it is the absolute best of the currently available solutions. There's a SCART to component variant of the FC-14, as well, but it's extremely difficult to get in the US (and still very hard to find elsewhere).

[maxtherabbit]

analogue circuit has any bearing on the subject), but the one thing that Retrotek's VGA to component transcoder has over everything else is that it can handle everything from 240p to 1080p. If that hardware or a variant thereof were put into his SCART to component transcoder, then it would be more capable than the Shinybow, which tops out at 480p, and I believe other solutions are limited to 15kHz modes.

S

AFAIK, all these various designs are all analog transcoders. So any input from 240p to 1080i and everything in between will be transcoded. The only potential issues are (1) resolutions beyond 480p call for a bi-phasic sync pulse, which none of these devices can do. Having said that, I haven't seen this to cause a compatibility issue in practice. (2) I'm pretty sure all the analog transcoder circuits are using the Rec.601 coefficients, with no way of switching to 709. Also depending on the bandwidth of the circuit, high frequency details may get lost and artifacts may appear at sharp color boundries (check green-magenta) at higher resolutions.

AFAIK some of the sync strippers used aren't rated for frequencies above 15 or 31kHz which could mean they don't produce a working sync output (even bi-level)

I agree with everything else you posted, most devices will accept bi-level sync even if the resolution calls for tri-level

[mikechi2]

AFAIK some of the sync strippers used aren't rated for frequencies above 15 or 31kHz which could mean they don't produce a working sync output (even bi-level)

Good point. Good news is that 1080i (equivalent to 540p) isn't that much different from 480p. But I gotta check 720p (45kHz) before putting my foot in my mouth.

But are there any sources that actually generate 720p with a separate CSYNC line? I imagine they'd all be VGA based in which case a sync combiner, not a stripper is needed.

[orange808]

AFAIK some of the sync strippers used aren't rated for frequencies above 15 or 31kHz which could mean they don't produce a working sync output (even bi-level)

Good point. Good news is that 1080i (equivalent to 540p) isn't that much different from 480p. But I gotta check 720p (45kHz) before putting my foot in my mouth.

But are there any sources that actually generate 720p with a separate CSYNC line? I imagine they'd all be VGA based in which case a sync combiner, not a stripper is needed.

Do you think an option that also accepts RGBHV and RGsB would be a possibility?

[mikechi2]

AFAIK some of the sync strippers used aren't rated for frequencies above 15 or 31kHz which could mean they don't produce a working sync output (even bi-level)

Good point. Good news is that 1080i (equivalent to 540p) isn't that much different from 480p. But I gotta check 720p (45kHz) before putting my foot in my mouth.

But are there any sources that actually generate 720p with a separate CSYNC line? I imagine they'd all be VGA based in which case a sync combiner, not a stripper is needed.

Do you think an option that also accepts RGBHV and RGsB would be a possibility?

Yes and yes -- it's really the same thing as the Raspberry Pi hat. But I'm going to shut up because I just realize I hijacked someone else's thread.

[nmalinoski]

AFAIK some of the sync strippers used aren't rated for frequencies above 15 or 31kHz which could mean they don't produce a working sync output (even bi-level)

Good point. Good news is that 1080i (equivalent to 540p) isn't that much different from 480p. But I gotta check 720p (45kHz) before putting my foot in my mouth.

But are there any sources that actually generate 720p with a separate CSYNC line? I imagine they'd all be VGA based in which case a sync combiner, not a stripper is needed.

I don't think there's anything that will generate 720p RGBS out of the box--every console seems to go out of its way to avoid putting 31kHz+ on SCART--but there are some options. I think the only instance where you can get 720p RGBS directly out of a console is a PS2 with the SoG-disable mod. Everything else would require some combination of adapter, RGB interface/sync combiner, HDMI-to-VGA converter, or, in the case of the Xbox, a BIOS mod.

[buttersoft]

One comment about the TG16 RGB amp as well - leaving all the pins in the expansion port connector is tantamount to gore. Those samtec connectors grip really hard across the 69 pins, and if you don't pull the connector off the port dead straight you start bending pins. Especially so when your design has the connector fully seated but the wings don't sit flush to the back of the console. (Maybe it's only really a risk with the PC Engines, and the TG16 is shaped differently around the port?)

I would recommend leaving only the pins you need (like 8?) plus a few more for stability. So maybe 9 on each end and 6 in the middle. It makes the connector much easier to remove and so the process becomes a bit safer.

[RGB0b]

There have never been any power issues.

So, what were all the issues then? Do you have scope captures showing all the issues from before and after that are fixed? Most importantly:

How on earth can you possibly justify such a high price, when the shinybow is just a few dollars more and never had any of the issues your product did?

I was "on your side" for quite a while, but your attitude and price speak for itself. BTW, Mike Chi's product is coming soon...how are you planning on competing with that?

could you please elaborate on what these issues are exactly so the rest of us can have a frame of reference?

My apologies - This was discussed in the old thread. Not sure why there's a new one...

First and foremost, the Retrotek products I've tested work fine in many scenarios and WILL NOT damage your equipment. I gotta be annoyingly loud about this: The products I tested are perfectly safe to use, period.

...but some people were getting color tint issues, others not. I was sent a second revision to test which had different issues and I was able to capture problems with a scope that highlight the issue. I've tried to discuss this with Fusion, but he cut off communication, except for the sporadic posts here. He's also never sent any scope captures I've asked for, which should be a super easy thing to produce.

Overall, from a performance standpoint, it was by far the worst converter we tested and I removed all links to it from my site. Anyone who's worked with me before (even people that hate me) will vouch for me on this: Just talk to me and I'll try my best to help you. Disappearing leaves me to come to my own conclusions...which is that Fusion doesn't quite understand what the problem is, or how to fix it.

Regardless, at that price point, I wouldn't recommend it anyway. For $10 more you can get a Shinybow that was one of the best converters we tested and comes with a small, metal case. If the TINK converter is a good price, that'll be my main recommendation. I'll need to check the final production version on a scope to triple-check (no offence to Mike, but I like to be annoyingly thorough), but so far it's performed flawlessly across many devices in harsh enviornments (it survived a giant fighting game tournmant where is was used for about 72-hours strait).

Hopefully Fusion will someday have a cheaper, follow-up product that performs well.

[maxtherabbit]

My apologies - This was discussed in the old thread. Not sure why there's a new one...

First and foremost, the Retrotek products I've tested work fine in many scenarios and WILL NOT damage your equipment. I gotta be annoyingly loud about this: The products I tested are perfectly safe to use, period.

...but some people were getting color tint issues, others not. I was sent a second revision to test which had different issues and I was able to capture problems with a scope that highlight the issue. I've tried to discuss this with Fusion, but he cut off communication, except for the sporadic posts here. He's also never sent any scope captures I've asked for, which should be a super easy thing to produce.

Overall, from a performance standpoint, it was by far the worst converter we tested and I removed all links to it from my site. Anyone who's worked with me before (even people that hate me) will vouch for me on this: Just talk to me and I'll try my best to help you. Disappearing leaves me to come to my own conclusions...which is that Fusion doesn't quite understand what the problem is, or how to fix it.

Regardless, at that price point, I wouldn't recommend it anyway. For $10 more you can get a Shinybow that was one of the best converters we tested and comes with a small, metal case. If the TINK converter is a good price, that'll be my main recommendation. I'll need to check the final production version on a scope to triple-check (no offence to Mike, but I like to be annoyingly thorough), but so far it's performed flawlessly across many devices in harsh enviornments (it survived a giant fighting game tournmant where is was used for about 72-hours strait).

Hopefully Fusion will someday have a cheaper, follow-up product that performs well.

thanks, I don't suppose you also tested the LinuxBot transcoder as well? the one from New Zealand

[Taiyaki]

I can confirm that the altered colors matter is a thing. I've only used the Retrotech VGA to component adapter and when compared with the Audio Authority one all shades of dark red were more purple on the Retrotech, where as the Audio Authority accurately displayed them as they should. I think that adapter is still a solid product but I just wouldn't recommend it over some others.

[RGB0b]

thanks, I don't suppose you also tested the LinuxBot transcoder as well? the one from New Zealand

I'm sorry, I have not.

[kitty666cats]

Man, looking for this thread to reminisce about this cool thing I'm gonna link. But I also read the posts in the thread and felt inclined to say RetroRGB Bob is a fucking dick. Fuck. You. Bob. In the unlikely event you ever see this. Blob: Your ill-informed (not about thingy in this thread, but countless other stuff - btw, you've unknowingly condoned your BFF Kaico/BitFunx numerous times without realizing it) website looks like ass riddled with so many ads as you biasedly condone certain people's stuff, lying through your teeth that you are neutral and just want to recommend the best stuff. Soooo many good cablemakers out there - not just my buddy mentioned later in this post, like sooo many more left perpetually unmentioned.

Collectively, that site’s suggestions have led so many people to waste so much money over the years. Continuing to endorse CastleMania is ridiculous, and though Retro-Access is well-meaning, sending so much traffic in that direction has caused nothing but headaches for both customers AND Rachel.

Site may have helped people years back, but apart from the news there are so many terrible and outdated guides on what to do and where to look.

Moving on!


I thought about this guy's products the other day - for anyone who remembers, he designed the most outrageously fucking cool switch: 6 VGA inputs, 6 SCART inputs - and it output RGB, component, S-Video and composite all at once. So it's a RGB switch but also with a transcoder/encoder on the output!

My buddy who makes super good cables (this dude https://www.tindie.com/stores/retrohb/ ) found this archive.org link when I was telling him the sad story about how a move off of eBay (with poor timing due to RetroTink thing coming out and Linuxbot taking the reins of eBay) combined with a little bit of shit talk from Blob ruined this guy.

https://web.archive.org/web/20200929225 ... n=SVGASW6P

Look how wildly cool and ambitious this thing was! A shame - I wouldn't be surprised if not a single one was ever bought




It's so ridiculous, sad this thing never got the push it deserved aside from me making a thread when it came out (pointing out how crazy it looked, haha).

Was anyone here in touch with Fusion? I am actually curious if he has some of these mad scientist switches around...

P.S. orange808, if you were talking about the Kramer FC-4, I found one once. It's just a CSY-2100 dressed in prettier clothes, I opened the thing up and it had the 'CSY-2100' printed on the board and everything

[ldeveraux]

Man, looking for this thread to reminisce about this cool thing I'm gonna link. But I also read the posts in the thread and felt inclined to say RetroRGB Bob is a fucking dick. Fuck you if you ever see this, Blob. Your ill-informed (not about thingy in this thread, but other stuff - you've unknowingly condoned your BFF Kaico/BitFunx numerous times without realizing it) website looks like ass riddled with ads and you biasedly condone certain people's stuff, lying through your teeth that you are neutral and just want to recommend the best stuff. Soooo many good cablemakers out there - not just my buddy mentioned later in this post, like sooo many more left perpetually unmentioned,

Moving on!

I knew I liked you
I stopped reading his blog when it just became a shill for the people who gave him free products.

[kitty666cats]

Haha, it’s not unwarranted… no offense to gscart guy for using him as an example, but leading people in the direction of thinking a $300 or w/e gcompsw is the only avenue for a nice component switcher feels very dishonest to me. One could easily additionally mention, in passing, that there’s lots of great NOS alternatives all over the place - eBay is riddled with them, I’m sure Shinybow and plenty others have good ones…


Basically, I’ve seen a lot of people take that website as gospel and been led into believing that there are no other equal quality alternatives and avenues out there for their wants and needs. For fractions of the price, in SO many instances.


———————————-


But I want to keep the focal point off my butthurt white knight tirade about other people’s neglect to individually seek alternative options, it’s not my choice how people decide to spend their money.

If you look at the website, it’s quite impressive that he threw together a VGA to component capable of 1080p (that’s a niche-upon-niche use, but still respectable). The TG-16 RGB amp that uses a VGA connector and has the option for both RGBS and RGBHV (the latter, also a pretty niche use case) also looks like it was real nice.

I dunno, I just feel like things came to an unfair end for this guy. Regrettably, moving off of eBay can be a very risky move. Which is a bummer, since eBay seller fees fucking SUCK. I’m feeling kind of inclined to reach out to Fusion, let him know there’s folks out there that still respect his contribution to the hobby, and that maybe he could take a second crack at things if planned-out well.

Tindie, where aforementioned buddy in my other post (not shilling; his cables are genuinely super nice. He’s shown me the 6-channel multicore coax he uses, it’s nice. Also may have elbowed him into working on some 15kHz VGA console output gear in the future) could be a good avenue for the guy… still relatively untapped.

So, yep… feel for the guy; am also curious if any of y’all ever picked up that switch or TG-16 RGB amp!

https://web.archive.org/web/20201112000 ... m/products


^ TH-16 thing on lower left side of product list

[orange808]

P.S. orange808, if you were talking about the Kramer FC-4, I found one once. It's just a CSY-2100 dressed in prettier clothes, I opened the thing up and it had the 'CSY-2100' printed on the board and everything

If I remember correctly, the one I was talking about is the FC-15. I still haven't found one, though.

[kitty666cats]

P.S. orange808, if you were talking about the Kramer FC-4, I found one once. It's just a CSY-2100 dressed in prettier clothes, I opened the thing up and it had the 'CSY-2100' printed on the board and everything

If I remember correctly, the one I was talking about is the FC-15. I still haven't found one, though.

Ohh, yeah yeah I’ve seen photos of that - mehhh, I assume it’s just a less versatile FC-14! Dochartaigh has one of their units that transcodes / encodes/ decodes anything to anything and also supports 240p. Would be interesting how its RGB to YPbPr transcoding stands up to the 14 (actually, Doc, I’m gonna hit you up on Discord after I submit this: is that one SD-only, or do RGB and YPbPr accept to what I assume is at least 1080i? Also, which FC-40__ was it, again? Always forget hah).

I miss my FC-14 (and Ocean Matrix rebadge, OMX-RGB2YUV). But I gave NoAffinity the latter and I don’t think it could have gone to a radder dude, I believe it was in exchange for helping me fix something.

Also orange, ever seen this list? My nerdy ass, of course, pored through it once lol


https://k.kramerav.com/products/discontinued.asp?sp=0

[bobrocks95]

My buddy who makes super good cables (this dude https://www.tindie.com/stores/retrohb/ )

They look slick- tell him to look into making some with a VGA connector on the end and a little 3.5mm pigtail coming off of it, the market has basically collapsed with Retro-Access's issues

[Dochartaigh]

Ohh, yeah yeah I’ve seen photos of that - mehhh, I assume it’s just a less versatile FC-14! Dochartaigh has one of their units that transcodes / encodes/ decodes anything to anything and also supports 240p. Would be interesting how its RGB to YPbPr transcoding stands up to the 14 (actually, Doc, I’m gonna hit you up on Discord after I submit this: is that one SD-only, or do RGB and YPbPr accept to what I assume is at least 1080i? Also, which FC-40__ was it, again? Always forget hah).

To busy to read everything here and reply, but here's the Kramer's I currently use, and some notes from my spreadsheet:

FC-4041 - RGBS/YPbPr to CV/YC – confirmed working with 240p
FC-4044 - CV/YC to RGBS/YPbPr - confirmed working with 240p
FC-14 - RGBS to Component - confirmed working (and didn't put in my notes, but pretty positive with 240p as well or I wouldn't have bought two of these...)

Adding these two non-Kramer units since I'm talking about what I actually use in my setup:

Extron RGB 203 Rxi - VGA/RGBHV to RGBS (and to fix sync issues/flagging for a couple systems)
Audio Authority 9A65 - YPbPr to RGBS/RGBHV (although prob never used RGBHV) - works awesome!


All of the above in my server rack setup (with an Extron Crosspoint 32x32 at its heart) let me convert pretty much any signal type, to any other signal type (perhaps with a scaler daisy-chained through the Crosspoint, depending on use-case). I went down this rabbit hole with the goal of being able to take WHATEVER signal my 16+ systems output (consoles/GroovyMAME PC/VHS/Raspberry Pi's/etc.), and be able to display it on ANY CRT monitor/TV I have - from a PC monitor in RGBHV, PVM/BVM in RGBS, or consumer CRT's with CV, YC, or YPbPr inputs.

_________________________________________________________


I think the 'anything to anything' one Kitty is talking about is the FC-4040, which does CV/YC/YPbPr/RGBS to YUV/RGB/RGBS (missing CV/YC output). Some people(s) here previously said it works with 240p... but the 2x I owned (one a member here sent me, and was def broke, had green only output), and the seemingly working one off eBay had interference on 240p (forget what type of interference, didn't put that in my notes, and believe I returned it to eBay for a refund so can't test again), -- but that did work fine for 480p (and maybe 480i to 480i). I'm not convinced this one works for 240p, despite people here saying it does.

The other two I have on my 'old kramer units which might work in 240p list', but I have NOT been able to test myself, are these (just to round out the Kramer units of this era, which would be useful in retro setups like ours):

FC-4042 - YPbPr to RGBS OR RGBS to YPbPr - NEVER tested myself
FC-4043 - CV/YV to YPbPr OR YPbPr to CV/YC - NEVER tested myself

[kitty666cats]

My buddy who makes super good cables (this dude https://www.tindie.com/stores/retrohb/ )

They look slick- tell him to look into making some with a VGA connector on the end and a little 3.5mm pigtail coming off of it, the market has basically collapsed with Retro-Access's issues

He has a specially-molded connector for the AV port. To prevent getting stuck/breakage/all that fun stuff. No more bullshit from other sellers.

He might do dongles which will have the form factor like his DC VGA box. I don’t want to say “might”. He’s gonna do it eventually. I reached out to him roughly 2 months ago and we talked extensively; I told him that I really think actually making console VGA style adapters/cables is a ridiculously untapped market. Plus, his stuff is extremely eye-pleasing. To finally have those type of things readily available; no pins breaking off after 3 unplugs (or waiting months/half a year for repair) like my Retro Access Saturn Dsub cable.

For now, I think he’s working on another DC VGA box where you can also switch to 480i.


Here’s his eBay too - https://www.ebay.com/usr/max-shop

Sadly sold out of most of his cables right now.

Hope to see the guy take off, happy to now call him a friend!

[kitty666cats]

BTW, FWIW -

So, I sent NoAffinity the FC-14 a couple years back. He’s tried many RGB to YPbPr’s and has found the absolute best, in his opinion, is…






The GreenAntz


http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.p ... =164245.80

FWIW, I don’t doubt him. You can see the innards of the RetroTink RGB2COMP through the shell, this has frickin’ 20x more goin’ on/as far as I can remember the linuxbot3000 has even less going on under the hood than the RetroTink. I hadn’t checked that GreenAntz thread in a while, cool someone is working on a shell!