The FRIZ chip and Why Microsoft should be called Hitlersoft

[popawell]

I have heard that Microsoft is trying to pass a device known as a Friz chip in congress. They want to put it in all new computers. The friz chip is supposed to cut down on viruses, but how it does it is terrifing. It goes through and deletes anything and everything that is not licenced by microsoft. That includes Roms, Emulators, and all of the free stuff we get on the internet. So in other words Microsoft wants to controol what we put in our computer. What is to stop them from spreading a program like that all over the internet like their own virus and get all of the older computers that dont have the chip? Viloation of the first amendment or what? If there is any more info about this can you tell me?

If they pass this, you Mayaswell Call Microsoft Stalinsoft or Hitlersoft. And Shmups might be removed from the internet at the touch of a button from them. You never know.

Also I have noticed that many web sites that have roms are just suddently crashing and going down. Over a 8 hour period, I have noticed that 7 rom sites are either errored or have there download center shut down. Couidince or something else?

[Ord]

It will never happen... (i hope**gulp!**)
Shouldn't this be in OT?

[Neon]

This is more commonly known as DRM (digital rights management). It's already starting to be implemented. Apple's got an equivalent too (Fairplay).
It's not only going to be used to stop piracy, but to crush competition/open source dealies (open office, linux).

We're powerless either way, so...better learn to live with it.

[Dylan1CC]

Moved to OT.

[Ord]

This is more commonly known as DRM (digital rights management). It's already starting to be implemented. Apple's got an equivalent too (Fairplay).
It's not only going to be used to stop piracy, but to crush competition/open source dealies (open office, linux).

We're powerless either way, so...better learn to live with it.

Ahhh fook No! Neon if your not just bullshiting (like you usually do ) then this is indeed very bad.

[Super Mega C]

With everyone and their grandmother (including the government) switching to open source (i.e. Linux, Unix, BSD, etc.) I doubt this will ever really amount to anything. Not to mention the cost of implementing it, social considerations, and the fact that the rest of the (ahem) "free" world will laugh or outright ban it when it's suggested to them.

[Specineff]

It will never come to fruition. Think about it. MS launches that crap, and then Steve Jobs lowers the price of the mac, or creates a Mac aimed at windows users fleeing such restrictions.. and he PWNS Gates big time. MS is not *that* dumb.

It was previously known as the TCCPA. Or something like that. Shove it, Bill.

[Neon]

Or he'll do this

The iTunes Music Store uses FairPlay, Apple's digital rights management system that's designed to be fair to the artist, to the record companies and to you.

http://www.apple.com/support/itunes/win ... ation.html

[UnscathedFlyingObject]

They'd have to come to my house, strangle me, get a machete, cut my hands grabbing the CPU, and take it. And that is not going to happen. I'll down a couple dozen of 'em before they can touch my MAMEchine. Remember the whatever amendment that says you can pwn a gun? I'll be making up rights from those I lose. They'll face an army of one if they ever try anything funny.

[The n00b]

This crap has been making the rounds on slashdot boards since 97. If it isn't a rumor made up by rabid Loonix fanboys who live in their parents' basements, I wish MS would just do it or just shutup already.

[Davey]

Also I have noticed that many web sites that have roms are just suddently crashing and going down. Over a 8 hour period, I have noticed that 7 rom sites are either errored or have there download center shut down. Couidince or something else?

Uh, ROM sites aren't exactly known for stellar reliability. That's kind of like saying there's a big conspiracy to impregnate barely legal teens because of what showed up in your inbox recently.

Even IF this thing is implemented AND it's anywhere near as evil as advertised, there's more than enough open-source software in the world to keep me from losing any sleep over this.

Remember, just because MS has a monopoly, it doesn't mean they dictate the way humanity will communicate. Back in the heyday of mainframes, IBM was the invincible evil empire of the computing world. Then they almost went under. Now they support Linux.

[Turrican]

If they pass this, you Mayaswell Call Microsoft Stalinsoft or Hitlersoft.

No, I would never offend Stalin or Hitler in such a bad way.

[system11]

What you're talking about is Palladium and the whole "Trustworthy Computing" initiative. It's basically about signing over control of your hardware to a consortium of Microsoft and some hardware vendors. They use tactics to push the idea like claiming it would stop viruses.

Reality: it's because they want to control what you run on your PC.

If anyone wants to know more about it, one good page is here:

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

It's extremely depressing, especially if you work in IT. I just hope it never gets off the ground.

[Neon]

I eagerly await vexorg's input

[AntiPasta]

Well on the other hand it would cut down the emulamer scene

*ducks and runs*

[dave4shmups]

I'm personally sick of hearing complaints about how Microsoft is going to take over the world, or some other such nonsense. Yes they have a monopoly, no I don't like it, but there are far worse corporations out there.

Think about it. Every time you or I fill up the gas tanks in our cars, some of that money is going towards a murderous regime in Saudi Arabia that executes citizens who disagree with their own brand of Islam, or dare to speak out against the corrupt royal family. Want to talk dictators? How about a monarchy that has public decapitations every Friday?

[uwfan]

i just think the word "hitlersoft" is funny.

[vek]

One thing I've always wondered about this. An awful lot seems to be riding on the Chinese accepting this. If they get US companies to switch to TCPA compatible stuff, the Chinese will have to if they want to do business with the Americans effectively.

So what happens if China says no? Will these TCPA supporting companies really be willing to sit there and cut themselves off from such a big market, leaving it open to rivals who don't?

[Zhon]

I don't like the fritz hardware either. Software DRM you could avoid or ice, but hardware you can't, especially if Intel puts it inside the CPU itself.

Microsoft has always been wanting to control information - the most obvious outward sign is the passport "give us all your personal information" system. But I don't think Microsoft is as strong as it used to be. It has to second guess itself now with regulators everywhere, and there are signs of it hurting - iTunes, Google, and Firefox, among them - which are signs that never appeared even half a decade ago.

As for Steve Jobs being our savior from hardware-based DRM - don't count on it. Corps like IBM, Cicso, Apple, etc. may not be the biggest pushers for DRM, but they aren't going to bother actively opposing it. And Intel wants to do this - remember the Pentium III unique ID embarrassment? Intel's just looking for a way to implement it without bad PR.

As for China - tech in the world is going to be split. You know already China uses different cell phone (hardware) encryption than everywhere in the world. China will never trust anyone else to handle things like this, they figure others will put backdoors in stuff to spy on them (and even if you take to account only what's been leaked to the public about survellience, it wouldn't be an unreasonable assumption to make) so they are developing their own methods - plus they also want to listen in on their own people. However, Microsoft and others will continue to do their thing in the west, China's large enough of a market to be able to support its own separate thing.

[Davey]

Software DRM you could avoid or ice, but hardware you can't, especially if Intel puts it inside the CPU itself.

I have a feeling there's plenty of third-world manufacturers that would be happy to make PCs without this. What kind of legal mess that would open up is another story.

And what about AMD? I'm not surprised Intel would do this, but this doesn't seem like the AMD way of business.

[vek]

As for China - tech in the world is going to be split. You know already China uses different cell phone (hardware) encryption than everywhere in the world. China will never trust anyone else to handle things like this, they figure others will put backdoors in stuff to spy on them (and even if you take to account only what's been leaked to the public about survellience, it wouldn't be an unreasonable assumption to make) so they are developing their own methods - plus they also want to listen in on their own people. However, Microsoft and others will continue to do their thing in the west, China's large enough of a market to be able to support its own separate thing.

The point is, if Chinese computers aren't compatible with TCPA, it sounds like it's going to make communicating and efficiently doing business with them somewhat more difficult. China and South Korea's governments have already planning to switch to open source software and indeed are working with the Japanese government on a collaborative open source effort. There have been moves in a similar sort of direction in Europe as well.

It does seem like there is a lot of momentum away from proprietary software around the world, and if this continues, surely it'll place a big burden on those who do adopt TCPA hardware and software when they are dealing with those who don't?

Well I hope I'm right, because TCPA sounds very bad, I'd like to see it fail miserably

[Specineff]

^^^It will fail for sure. Think about it. Joe Average gets PC, Joe Average tries to run a freeware game, Pissed Joe Average returns PC to Walmart/Best Buy/Circuit City. And who says that Friz chip isn't spying on you.

[vek]

And who says that Friz chip isn't spying on you.

I think, for some reason, we're supposed to be pleased that it'll just be Microsoft, the CIA and the tax man spying on us, instead of some bored hacker kid who just thought he'd see if he could

[raiden]

And what about AMD? I'm not surprised Intel would do this, but this doesn't seem like the AMD way of business.

AMD has signed the respective treaty years ago already, as have most important (large market share) hardware developers. The thing is supposed to be bundled with the new Longhorn OS, sporting complete 64bit support and a fully 3d desktop environment.
I don´t think there are realistic ways to stop it. Like you can´t buy Windows98 anymore in a regular store, you will at some point not be able to buy anything else than Longhorn. Think back when Windows XP was new: a lot of bad rumors about the spyware involved made many people claim they´d never change to that OS, now pretty much everybody uses it. Linux won´t work on the new hardware anymore, either, so if you want to use an alternative OS, you basically exclude yourself from any technological advances. In the long run, the old hardware will stop working.
From an industry perspective, it´s only natural: if you can´t convince people to accept copyright laws, and it´s pretty obvious that this just doesn´t work on a large scale, and people keep on stealing property with the tools you sell to them, you will start changing those tools, disabling their usability for theft. The thing is just that this particular way of solving the problem has a side effect of controlling most forms of electronic communication, and that makes it not just a commercial, but also a political issue. Whoever still believes in democracy might think the people´s will can resist the industry´s power. I don´t think so, though.

[Turrican]

Whoever still believes in democracy might think the people´s will can resist the industry´s power. I don´t think so, though.

Democracy is just a filler for textbooks, as President Johnson once said.

[Zhon]

Doing business with China already has hurdles (you know, language, culture, customs, currency, and everything) so an additional layer in communications won't be that much of a deterrent - it won't stop hardware DRM from being adopted.

3rd world computer copycats won't really be a replacement - because they still need Intel or AMD CPU's (well, PowerPC too), which eventually will contain hardware DRM. One interesting question is if China will create its own CPU's - right now I don't see it having the ability, but it has progressed at a very remarkable rate, so this could appear sooner than I think.

As for the average joe and the freeware pc game - I doubt the average joe is one who goes out and actually plays these things. Plus, in a lot of cases, your linux, your other programs will still run, but not in the "trusted environment" where decryption keys are being handed out. This of course is assuming the powers that be don't activate "remote deletion" in which case whoever controls the technology can peek around/alter/delete the stuff on your pc from afar.

The thing is, the only way it can be stopped is through major backlash - but those in charge are trying to "creep" things in so we don't notice. By "creep" I mean that even if everyone screams about feature Z, they might first introduce X, then Y - and by that time moving to Z won't be much of a stretch. Intel has learned its lesson and now won't be trumpeting any moves they make in this direction.

I don't think it's all doom...yet. Many places (especially foreign) are waking up and realizing they don't exactly want to allow MS (and "U.S. interests") a convenient backdoor to all their computers, so will try to find an alternative. China is an obvious example - but I think Europe is getting a little uncomfortable too.

If it ends up coming to pass, I'm probably going to try to scrounge up some old hardware and set it up as a firewall between the new stuff and the internet. That way I can (try to) block remote access to the hardware DRM so they can't peek or delete from afar - although I'll still be denied the benefits of the "trusted environment" and will lack access to any programs or data which depend on it. The thing is, I'm not sure how long any hardware I find will last - things break down eventually, and computers aren't exactly built to last - since they are obselete in a few years.


Edit: Those who think the open source movement will laugh it off - if there are no hardware competitors which will introduce DRM-free hardware (and so far there are none - all the players have signed up) then they have to use the new hardware with DRM, which will work in spite of whatever open source software you use - since it overrides software. The only alternative is use outdated hardware while everyone else is zipping around you in their 10GHz machines.

As for the Microsoft monopoly being similar to an oil cartel - it's not the same. First, the oil cartel only controls a portion of the oil output - it's a big slice, but it's not everything. As well, high prices in oil are because of high consumption - even if they pumped all the oil they could, oil probably will still be pretty expensive. Most of the opec countries already are putting out everything they can, it's only a few large players that are holding back a bit.

[Specineff]

Wait until someone challenges that DRM crap on court. No matter how interested they are into securing their copyrights, no company, and read well, Hitlersoft... NO FUGGING COMPANY WILL BE SPYING ON ME, MY NEIGHBOR OR THE LADY DOWN THE CORNER WHO CAMWHORES HERSELF FOR EVERQUEST ITEMS.

Making the hardware run on only a specific type of OS is unfair business practice. (Yeah, not like there are many OS's you can buy out there, but still no one has the right to tell you that you can only install a certain OS in your system) Trust me. It won't pass as long as people are informed. Remember when we all feared that IE was going to be the only way to browse the intarweb? Now we have other two browsers who are causing Bill Gates to have nightmares.

And LongHorn can suck on my Long****.

[raiden]

NO FUGGING COMPANY WILL BE SPYING ON ME

The spying isn´t even the problem. The problem is a simple .txt file can be declared "malware" at any point, which deletes it from every computer that goes online. It´s rather censorship than spying.
Shareware will continue to exist, btw. But you will need a license to develop shareware and can´t use a free compiler anymore. So freeware will become rare, and if there is a free alternative to commercial software, it might suffer the same fate as the .txt file mentioned above.

[U K Narayan]

I have two words describing how I feel about this, and while I could write an elaborate complaint, I'm going to keep it simplistic. Also bear in mind - that I don't care what any of you think of these two words:

Fuck that.

[Neon]

Man, it's hard to comprehend the degree to which we're about to be owned. hopefully there'll be a nuclear war over the little remaining oil like we talked about on the old boards before all this is implemented. "better dead than red" etc.