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 Post subject: ST: Battle Bakraid (15.09.10 - rank modifiers added)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:16 am 


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Updates (15.09.10:

  • Many thanks to the tireless croikle for finally locating the rank value for MAME, and providing a quick set of important rank modifiers for the ST thread. At some point in the near future, I may expand the Bakraid ST into a full-size ST guide (Garegga/Batrider size) to flesh out the data and provide more strategies, but for now, please continue to utilise this thread. ^_-

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The scoring system in Bakraid is very complex and multi-layered, and takes a lot of practice to exploit to it's full potential. It involves exploiting a medalling system and a more complex multiplier system in order to produce massive point hoards from seemingly short stages, and in order to push your scores to higher levels, it is neccessary to see what each part of the scoring system consists of. Therefore, the Gameplay Analysis was born.

First things first, a couple of replays. They're recent as of April 2015, currently up on YT, as will be expanded as time goes on.
Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... xdQFfoBr8g

If anyone would like to contribute notes, theories or stage/boss strats to this guide, please feel free to do so, and I'll make sure to incorporate it into the mini-guide. Credit where credit's due.

So anyway, lets get to it!

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> MEDAL SYSTEM: <
At it's most basic form, the medalling system is similar to the medal systems in Garegga and Batrider, in that you release medals from enemies that increase in value for each successive medal you collect, and these medals will reset back to lowest value if any of them are missed.

  • BASICS:
    The medals start at 100pts per, and will steadily increase in value until they max out at 10,000pts per. Unlike Brave Blade where you have the ability to jump the medal values up, you must work through the medal order before you get to max value. This small chart from R8zing illustrates the medals and their respective values:

    Image

    Please remember that they will only go up in value if you pick up all that is on-screen before you release any more, and the value of the next medal to be released is relative to the LAST medal you collected. For example, if there is a 500pt medal, a 600pt medal and a 700pt medal on screen, you want to collect them in the order (500pt)-(600pt)-(700pt), so the next medal to be released will be 800pts. If you pick up, say, (600pt)-(700pt)-(500pt), the next medal to be released will be a 600pt medal. The optimal strategy for medalling in the early stages of the game is to pick up and release medals one at a time.

    And much like all of Raizing's shmups which feature a medal system of this kind (excluding Great Mahou and it's user controlled medal system) you can rescue your medal values if you accidentally miss one, by collecting the largest value medal that still on screen (if there are any) before you release any more medals.

  • SPECIAL MEDALS:
    However, Raizing added a little extra to the medal system that is tied to the multiplier system. The medals actually max out at 100,000pts per medal, but you can only trigger the 100k medals when you have a multiplier active, and you can only continue to release 100k medals if you continue to keep a multiplier going. Once you lose a multiplier, your medals revert back to 10k pts medals.

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> MULTIPLIER SYSTEM: <
Bakraid also features another scoring system that alters the amount of points gained from enemy destruction by modifying the base pointgain from enemy destruction with a specially acquired incremental multiplier. The multipler system is, in my view, the more important of the two scoring systems as it is the system that can contribute to almost 80% of your total score, and is centric to the release of the special 100k pt medals. However, the multiplier system is also the most difficult to get to grips with and exploit, as it requires a lot of pre-planning on the player's part with regards to stage and boss strategies in order to maximise potential point gains.

  • BASICS:
    The multiplier system in essence features an incremental multiplier that is gained by destroying LARGE enemies. You can continue to increment the multiplier up to a max of 64x, via this simple table (the number in brackets refers to the amount of large enemies destroyed to reach that multiplier stage):

    • 2x (destroy 2)
    • 4x (3)
    • 8x (4)
    • 16x (5)
    • 32x (6)
    • 64x (7 and more)

    Much like Cave and the Do/Donpachi games, Bakraid also features a chain timer which controls the incrementation of the multiplier. To continue to increment your multiplier value, you must in essence "chain" large enemies within three seconds of each other, or you lose your multiplier value. And to further complicate matters, only certain enemies in each stage will contribute to your multiplier. However, there are a few ways to extend the multiplier timer.

  • MULTIPLIER TIMER:
    Many thanks to Rastan78 for doing a bit of research on the multiplier timer that affects the scoring system. Copy-pasted right here:

    • The first enemy you kill sets the timer up to 90 and then successive kills set it to 120. The difference is pretty small but worth noting that you have just a little less time to get to the x2 mult. It continually counts down (very rapidly) and only destroying another chainable enemy can reset the timer to the full 120 again.

    • Dying will temporarily pause the timer at its current value. The timer will continue to count down the remainder immediately when a new player enters the bottom of the screen. In other words, there's no fixed amount of time left available when you come back. It varies according to the amount you had left when killed. Since your own explosion causes damage, this can sometimes reset it to 120 before you come back by killing an enemy.

    • Bombing also pauses the timer but with a big catch. Bombing removes all remaining time from the chain timer regardless of the amount left. Even if you just killed something chainable, immediately launch a bomb and the counter is reduced to 1. Having a 1 on the clock is not 1 second, it's probably more like 1 hundredth.

      What this means is that bombs will only extend your multiplier if you chain another enemy while the bomb is still active. That resets the timer and it will begin counting down from 120 as soon as the bomb is done burning. It also means that if you set off a bomb at any time and fail to destroy something chainable before its done, your multiplier WILL be gone. Small bombs consisting of only a few bombs fragments are really risky then when you're trying to maintain the multiplier.

  • MULTIPLIER EXTENSION: CHAINING:
    The most basic method is similar to chaining in Dodonpachi, in that you follow a route which distributes the large enemies in such a way that you can get up to maximum value.

    To do this, you must observe how the enemies that will contribute to your multiplier are positioned on each stage, and time your attacks to link these enemies together. Using this method, you'll probably find yourself not shooting a lot in each stage, in order to leave certain enemies to the last second before attacking. This does make the stages a bit trickier to navigate, though, and it only gives you multipliers for as long as there are large enemies on screen. Since there are some stretches where no large enemies exist, you must look to the other methods to extend your chain.

  • MULTIPLIER EXTENSION: BOMBING:
    You can also use up a bomb to extend your chain. By bombing, you essentially freeze the multiplier timer, giving you enough time to bump up your multiplier and giving you a few more seconds to play with. The amount to extra time you acquire is proportional to the strength of the bomb you release - a full bomb will give you around five seconds, while a single bomb bullet will give you a measly split second - so timing is everything when you release.

    I'm also quite certain that the invincibility time during and after the bomb release contributes to the timer freeze. However, it would also seem that you get less points from enemies that are destroyed with a bomb, regardless of your multiplier status, so be careful where you drop that bomb.

  • MULTIPLIER EXTENSION: SUICIDING:
    Believe it or not, suiciding also helps to freeze your multiplier timer. I believe that when it comes to bombing and suiciding, the invincibility time you have is the biggest indication of how much time you have left before your multiplier timer resets, so in effect, as soon as you regenerate from a death, you have a small window of opportunity to either increment your multiplier, or freeze the timer.

    The biggest benefit from suiciding is that you are also given one full bomb and twenty small bomb bullets to use to extend your multiplier. However, unlike Garegga, where this bomb and a half would be added to the stock you were carrying upon death, in Bakraid your bomb count is reset back to this amount, so if you are carrying more than two bombs at any time, make sure you use them up before you suicide.

    It is an important fact to note, that the current Japanese Bakraid record holder suicided over 50 times on Advanced Course to achieve the 125mil+ record score. So in theory, it is possible to keep a 64x multiplier throughout the duration of each stage, through use of all three chain extension methods.

  • POINTGAIN DIFFERENCES:
    More research on scoring copy-pasted from Rastan78:

    Like Icarus said above, killing enemies with a bomb (using the tickle laser I believe counts also as destroying with a bomb) is worth less points in a LOT of instances.

    I found out that in character test mode you can see how many points gained by destroying each enemy with shot or bomb and also enemy HP. Basically, most of the large enemies and bosses that you can destroy with a high mult. to get millions are worth very little points when bombed. You've got to shoot them down to get huge scores. This is worth remembering even just playing for survival as you'll still lose points by taking out a boss with a bomb as the final hit.

    That being said, there are some enemies where the opposite is true and bombing or tickle lasering is worth more, but the difference here is much smaller.

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> RANK SYSTEM: <

  • INFORMATION:
    Rank system data from croikle! We finally have some hard numbers for Bakraid, and hopefully in the near future, we can find all of the relevant rank modifiers so we can understand the nature of the beast. For now, thanks to croikle, we've got data on the most important rank-related modifiers, that will affect your rank during play.

    croikle wrote:
    Big news! I just found the rank address, so we can figure out what's going on in this beast. It's 3 bytes starting at 0x20F2E7 (or a double at 0x20F2E6), and behaves quite like Garegga and Batrider rank.

    Here's a cheat to watch the value, in the modern cheat.xml format (I can make one for the old style if needed):

    Code:
    <cheat desc="Watch Game Rank">
      <script state="run">
        <output format="Rank : %x">
          <argument>maincpu.pd@(20f2e6)</argument>
        </output>
      </script>
    </cheat>


    I'll update this with values as I discover them. From memory, death at 4 stock is minimal rank relief, death at 1 is major, and scratching bullets relieves rank too.

    Rank starts at 0xD90000 at the black screen before mode selection. Batrider methods for decreasing start rank don't affect this, nor do attract screen cycles. The value isn't different for the different modes. Rank doesn't seem to carry over between credits.

    The minimum value is 0; no soft min like the others.

    Rank decrease (value increase) at death:
    4 stock: 0x040000
    3 stock: 0x080000
    2 stock: 0x100000
    1 stock: 0x200000
    0 stock: 0x400000 and gameover

    Rank increase (value decrease) from extend at:
    0 stock: 0x020000
    1 stock: 0x040000
    2 stock: 0x080000
    3 stock: 0x100000
    4 stock (surplus): 0x020000 (surprisingly small)

    Dropping extends doesn't seem to affect anything.

    There's a sizable increase from killing a chain-prolonging enemy at x64. Looks like 0x040000. Fixed 0x0a0000 for bosses, regardless of chain.
    Chain rank increase (only for "large" = timer reset enemies):
    Multiplier here is the value before the kill, will be +1 afterward. Not absolutely sure on these values.
    x1: 0x001000
    x2: 0x002000
    x4: 0x004000
    x8: 0x008000
    x16: 0x010000
    x32: 0x040000 (odd)
    x64: 0x040000

    Per-frame increase starts out at 3. Looks like it can be increased. Special power up seems to +2, though maybe Wide is only +1.

    Each of the 3 types of powerups increase rank by 0x001000. (surplus too)

    Medal increase:
    100-900: 0x400
    1000-9000: 0x800
    10000: 0x1000
    100000: 0x20000 (!?)

    Bomb fragment: 0x800, even when filling to full bomb
    Collecting full bomb: 0x10000
    Bombing (full or partial): 0x8000

    Graze: 0x200 rank decrease. Kinda randomly every few frames. (2 on, 2 off?) Applies for each bullet, so graze a swarm during a bomb for more.

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> SCORING DEMONSTRATIONS: <

  • AXEBEAK - 11.3mil:
    For this scoring demonstration, I'll be walking you through my current technique for getting 11.3mil from the Forest stage and it's boss, Axebeak. I'll be using the Saber Tiger (Side) as my ship of choice, although you can adapt my techniques for any ship you choose.

    1. Since I'm using Saber Tiger, I've had to find a way to counteract the Side weapon, the homing missiles, in order to stop the main body of Axebeak being damaged too much, sending the boss into it's second form before I destroy all the major target points. In this case, I've neglected to pick up any Side powerups, instead relying on charge attack and Options to boost my firepower.

      To start the battle, you'll want to weaken the six missile launchers located on Axebeak's wings. You can do this by using Shot, and the Options you have available set in the Front concentrated formation to avoid damaging the body too much.

      Image

    2. You will want to weaken the cockpit target a bit to give you a better chance of destroying it quickly, before Axebeak hides it at the top of the screen. I'm using Trace formation here, hiding in the top corner of the screen to attack the cockpit.

      Image

    3. You can either rely on the charge aura to destroy the missiles that are fired from the wing launchers, which is safer, or you can try this technique of using Trace formation, which gives you the advantage of attacking both sets of missiles at once. You have to watch the direction that Axebeak is drifting in, and head in the opposite direction. In this screenshot, Axebeak was drifting towards the left, so I sit on the right side of the screen, and set my Trace Options up to attack the missiles.

      Image

    4. After about five sets of wing missiles, the wing batteries on the back of Axebeak's wings will activate. This is when you want to stop firing, and prepare youself to attack the launchers and batteries for the 64x.

      Image

    5. Watch the direction that Axebeak is drifting in, and head to the opposite wing. In this case, Axebeak was drifting left, so I positioned myself near the right wing. Wait until the two cannons on Axebeak's main body have fired three times, as the wing batteries and the launchers will activate a second after. It is at the precise second that the wing weapons activate that you want to drop a bomb on top of the wing, and head to the other wing to destroy the launchers with Shot/aura. Timing is everything here, as if you're too slow, it throws off your timing for the next bit, and if you're too fast, you risk destroying the wing battery with the bomb blast.

      Image Image

    6. As soon as the first bomb has burned out, drop your half-bomb on top of the other wing, and quickly maneuver back to the other wing to destroy the wing battery with aura or Shot. Again, timing is everything - a second too slow and you miss your opportunity to destroy the wing battery, too fast and you destroy the other wing battery with the bomb blast. Your primary aim with using the bombs here is to weaken both batteries enough to destroy with Shot or aura, while giving yourself enough invincibility time to take out the target points.

      After taking out this first wing battery, you will want to suicide to freeze your timer, and to set up for the next bit.

      Image Image

    7. Depending on where Axebeak is on screen and the direction it's flying in, you can do a number of different things here. You will want to drop a bomb out of the way of the boss to give you invincibility without damaging the boss. You might also want to take out the cockpit first before the wing battery if Axebeak looks like it's heading to the top of the screen. You could even use the full-bomb to give yourself the invincibility to take out one target, then drop the half-bomb for the invincibility to take out the other.

      Whichever method you use is entirely up to you, but you will want to force Axebeak into it's second form and suicide to keep your multiplier.

      Image Image

    8. If you timed it correctly, you should be respawning while Axebeak is flying around in it's second form. Send a full-bomb straight up to the top of the screen, out of the way of the boss, and attack the rear turret located in the base of the boss for the last 64x target. Once you destroy it, use up your half-bomb on top of the boss, and destroy Axebeak for the 64x kill.

      Image Image

    9. Congratulations! You've scored over 11mil points on stage 1! :D With further milking, and possibly the 4x at the beginning of Forest, 11.5mil+ is attainable.

      Image

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> THINGS TO DO (in the near future): <

  1. develop chain routes through each stage
  2. develop working boss strategies which involve gaining a high multiplier and destroying a boss with multiplier active (hello, Cyclops).


Last edited by Icarus on Sun May 03, 2015 6:13 pm, edited 13 times in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 4:14 am 


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Nicely done, Icarus.

I think the basic Axebeak strategy is to get the multiplier raised by destroying the six wing missile launchers. Then you let loose a bomb and overlap the ship to shoot out his cockpit area (worth 50,000xmult.) I've only managed to get about 1.5 million off of this myself so hopefully Alluro or somebody else can clarify. On the old forums, they said around 4.5 million was possible if memory serves.

One interesting thing about Bakraid is that if you go into the character test mode in the test menu, you can check out the hit boxes to every sprite in the game including enemies. I can't remember off hand but different button/joystick combinations will change the character, turn on and off the hit box etc.

Without fail on every selectable ship, the hit box is the small greyish cockpit itself. Even on the Solid Ray whose cockpit is at the very front of the ship.

We probably don't need to put all the codes here since they're elsewhere on the net, but I think the most important one is the left, up, up/left + A code. It's kind of an upside down dragon punch move and it lets you hear a sound effect when you increase your multiplier and one when you lose it so you don't have to try to stare at a number at the top of the screen while also trying to maneuver.

And finally, anyone else playing B.B. please join in the
high score thread!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:51 pm 


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It's not only the blade owl that can pull off the 4million+ trick on Axebeak. Others are capable of it too, it's just that a blade owl special attack makes it quite a bit easier and systematic. The trick to this is that you have to wait till the boss shoots out it's missile launchers. Weaken all six missile launchers the first time they are exposed. Next, you wait till they are exposed again, this time you kill all six of them, and since they are weakened, it won't take much firepower to kill each, thus they can be chained. Keeping your chain, destroy the boss so he gets into his secondary mode of fire. Once that happens, drop a bomb to extend your chain time, go all the way to the top of the screen and hit Axebeak's cockpit.......then proceed to destroy him.....if all goes well, you will get the cockpit's points at x64 as well as the boss' kill points at x64. When you start the next level.....you'll get two extends (hooray!) But there is a drawback to this.....Bakraid gets pissed off and is all like "Hey! this guy just got two more lives! You can't do that!" and then the rank kinda just......soars through the roof.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:15 pm 


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Cheers Icarus for the videos, I always had problems with scoring the desert before, hopefully get a good run with it in the next couple of days.

And I had no idea you could get 4 mil on the first boss.

Can you do that to any others apart from the desert dude and axebeak?


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:33 am 


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Thanks for the feedback everyone. I'll join in the score compo once I get a score I'm happy with ;)


RE. stage and boss strats:
I don't think there are enough weakpoints on the Seaside stage boss (two front cannons, two side cannons and maybe the center turret and cockpit) or the Naval stage boss to give you high multipliers.

My guess is that for these two stages in particular, the stages themselves give you more points - I'm stil working on refining my stage routes with both Flame Viper (A) and Saber Tiger (C) but I've managed to increase my stage point gain from Naval to around 5.5mil, while I can probably get around 6mil from Seaside if I get up to 64x before I take out the large tank, and either carry my 64x to the set of small and large bombers, or bring the multiplier back up via them.

The Desert stage is tough to chain as all the multiplier targets are well spaced out and would require a combination of bomb and suicide extension tactics. I don't dispute that getting and keeping a 64x is possible, but my current strategy involves bringing my bomb stock up to nearly 3 Full from this stage for use on Naval. But a good chain route is definitely possible, just very tricky.

The Railroad stage is more of a bomb fragment collection stage as there is a surprising lack of multiplier targets available. If you could get 64x all the way to the end, I'd bet the mini-railtank before the boss would be worth a lot of points. The boss itself has a few 64x targets - the two turrets at the front, plus the sidecars that appear - but it's very tough to keep a multiplier here save bomb and suicide extensions.

Once I improve my Axebeak strategy with both Flame Viper and Saber Tiger, I'll put up a video with a demonstration. My current best is 32x for 2.1mil.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:52 am 


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Quote:
I'll join in the score compo once I get a score I'm happy with


Oh well, looks like I'll be heading down the leaderboard


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 5:11 am 


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Just added an Axebeak 1.8mil pointgain video to the replays list if anyone wants to see it.

I'm in the process of refining the method further - I missed one of the side missile launchers in this vid - and I'm experimenting with suicide and bomb strats to try and incorporate the front splash cannon and the wing turrets. 4.5mil is a target, but I suspect you can get higher than that.

The extra extends might come in handy for my stage routes. I'm Stage Editing to get Desert first (for the bomb fragments) and then Naval next. With a few more lives spare, I could have a go at refining the stage chain for Desert to include all the gunships, large turrets and the two heavy tanks, while still keeping some spare to chain the first half of Naval fully.

Once I work out how to install the Avalon BitTorrent tracker to my site, I should be able to free up more space for guide-based replays, so expect more video material for Bakraid (and others) forthcoming.

I'll keep you posted.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2005 12:22 pm 


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I've never been too sure on which order to dothe stages in. If I do the Naval stage first and combo well, the rank hits too hard for the rest of the game. Also, the Naval stage seems to easiet to combo fully.

I've not tried to improve my score lately, but I wouldn't mind some competition. :)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:00 pm 


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I think railroad is a good one to use for Stage 2. It seems to me like that's supposed to be the raise your medal value stage. There seems like almost no chance to get good multipliers, so you're not missing many 100,000 medals by putting this level early on. Seaside and Naval are best done later because of the huge potential for 100,000s.

One small tip to raising the medals faster. When you're going through the railroad tunnel fighting a mid boss, there are flat cars with 3 medals on them. Don't even shoot at the tank, just ram through the train cars with your "tickle" laser holding the joystick straight up as you blast through. Instead of clearing out all the medals and collecting them later at the same value, they will increase one by one as you pick them up. There's one other flat car like this earlier in the level also.

Using this technique you should easily raise the medal value to its highest before the train stage boss and be set to grab tons of 100's if you have something like seaside set to stage three.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:15 am 


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I tend to pick Desert first as the stage itself is a cakewalk, and can either be chained (with the two extends you get from Axebeak helping out here) or used as a bomb fragment collection stage - the two streams of tanks that come out of the hatches before the two large tanks give lots, and the two large tanks themselves give nine fragments apiece - plus it's a bonus fighting Bahamut on a lower stage difficulty, rather than take it on at stage four difficulty (which is where I usually put Railroad).

My Stage Edit setup is:
[Forest] - > [Desert] - [Naval] - [Railroad] - [Seaside] < - [Cloud]

I usually pick Naval for the third stage as it's stupidly hard anywhere else, and Seaside is pretty laid back even in the last slot before Cloud.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:36 pm 


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Quote:
My Stage Edit setup is:
[Forest] - > [Desert] - [Naval] - [Railroad] - [Seaside] < - [Cloud]


Icarus, what scores were you reaching after each individual stage for the 14mil run?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:54 pm 


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I tried Railroad but it didn't help much at all.. just made the later stages harder to chain.
I'm still sticking with Naval and comboing very well on it, but then I can't combo well on any stage after it.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:30 am 


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Just out of curiosity, but does anyone know what determines what bosses appear in the Cloud stage? I'm not sure if it's overall rank level or stage order that determines which bosses appear, as a few times I've arrived in Cloud with my usual route and got different bosses in different orders.

My fingers are usually crossed that I don't get that two extending armed gimp that likes to try and point blank you.

freddiebamboo wrote:
Icarus, what scores were you reaching after each individual stage for the 14mil run?


For the 14mil run, I took a different stage order. Here's approx. scores after each stage:

  • Forest: 4.2mil
  • Railroad: 4.4mil (+0.2mil) <-- really crappy here
  • Naval: 9.7mil (+5.3mil) <-- chained all three battleships :D
  • Desert: 10.2mil (+0.5mil) <-- on last life so ignored any chains
  • Seaside: 13.0mil (+2.8mil) <-- messed up the major chain starts and finishes here
  • Cloud to ALL: 14.9mil (+1.9mil) <-- figured out 64x before Gigamanta

Here's the EK-MAME+ v0.90 input file if you want to watch it in action. Make sure you back up your highscore file first as it might save my record to your highscore table on completion :)
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:27 am 


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I made a few observations about the chain timer that may be helpful.

1. The timer starts out at a value of 120 after killing any chainable enemy. It continually counts down (very rapidly) and only destroying another chainable enemy can reset the timer to the full 120 again.

2. Dying will temporarily pause the timer at its current value. The timer will continue to count down the remainder immediately when a new player enters the bottom of the screen. In other words, there's no fixed amount of time left available when you come back. It varies according to the amount you had left when killed. Since your own explosion causes damage, this can sometimes reset it to 120 before you come back by killing an enemy.

3. Bombing also pauses the timer but with a big catch. Bombing removes all remaining time from the chain timer regardless of the amount left. Even if you just killed something chainable, immediately launch a bomb and the counter is reduced to 1. Having a 1 on the clock is not 1 second, it's probably more like 1 hundredth.

What this means is that bombs will only extend your multiplier if you chain another enemy while the bomb is still active. That resets the timer and it will begin counting down from 120 as soon as the bomb is done burning. It also means that if you set off a bomb at any time and fail to destroy something chainable before its done, your multiplier WILL be gone. Small bombs consisting of only a few bombs fragments are really risky then when you're trying to maintain the multiplier.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:12 am 


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Okay, it looks like the first enemy you kill only sets the timer up to 90 and then successive kills set it to 120. The difference is pretty small but worth noting that you have just a little less time to get to the x2 mult.
------

Also, like Icarus said above, killing enemies with a bomb (using the tickle laser I believe counts also as destroying with a bomb) is worth less points in a LOT of instances.

I found out that in character test mode you can see how many points gained by destroying each enemy with shot or bomb and also enemy HP. Basically, most of the large enemies and bosses that you can destroy with a high mult. to get millions are worth very little points when bombed. You've got to shoot them down to get huge scores. This is worth remembering even just playing for survival as you'll still lose points by taking out a boss with a bomb as the final hit.

That being said, there are some enemies where the opposite is true and bombing or tickle lasering is worth more, but the difference here is much smaller.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 2:48 am 


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Thanks for the in-depth info Rastan78. Gone ahead and added it into the ST guide where appropriate.

I've been experimenting with bomb and suicide strategies lately, and I've definitely found it to be more beneficial to suicide immediately after a full bomb burns out (so you lose the half-bomb thats in stock).

Instead of risking losing a multiplier from using the half-bomb, you get more leeway from the freezing the timer using a suicide and a full-bomb immediately afterward. With this method, I've increased my pointgain from Naval to 8.5mil.

Also, it seems that the timer is immediately frozen when you press the bomb button, and the timer only unfreezes when the bomb has burned out. So the best kind of bomb to use is a full one, with your ship right at the bottom of the screen, sending the bomb right to the top :D Beware though, as in some areas, it's more beneficial to drop a bomb somewhere out of the way of chainable enemies (the two battleships near the start of Naval, and the huge one before the boss; the lower middle of the screen under the two huge tanks in Desert; covering the two small turrets on the large tank in Seaside...)
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 3:01 pm 


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Rastan78 wrote:


Also, like Icarus said above, killing enemies with a bomb (using the tickle laser I believe counts also as destroying with a bomb) is worth less points in a LOT of instances.



The tickle laser actually multiplies the value of very small enemies x10.
I believe the bomb is 1/10, however.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:56 am 


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Darkcomet, keep in mind that if you're attacking an enemy that is worth ten times more when attacked with the aura (tickle) it will also be worth ten times more when bombed and vice versa.

It's tough to generalize, because for all of the small sized enemies that do give you this, many don't. Also, some larger enemies like the submarines in the navy stage and the turret carriages that slide to the left and right above them on rails do give you more when destroyed with bomb or aura.

If you're in character test mode, the way to scroll through the enemies is to hold down A and tap right or left. While you're on a certain enemy or boss with multiple parts, let go of A and hit up or down to see the different pieces.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:41 am 



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Here's a MAME replay showing the absurd lengths you can take suicide/bomb chaining:
http://mog-web.web.infoseek.co.jp/rai8rep.htm

It's the last one on the page. The first link after it will take you to a page that has the MAME versions you required.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 12:54 am 


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That replay is just... scary.

I had a feeling that the back wing batteries on Axebeak's first form were involved in an extended 64x, but I didn't really understand the level of precision required to achieve it (that and the stupidly long 64x on Seaside, Desert and Naval... and the 64x on the first form of Gigamanta...)

Thanks for the links to the replays :D That's the first (and so far, only) high-level Bakraid replay I've ever seen. I don't think GFA2-ISO has ever recorded his Advanced Course run, which is a shame, as I'd be pretty interested in seeing someone actually chain Railroad, if that is at all possible ;)
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:00 am 



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I captured the Axebeak fight from that MAME replay here:
http://www.rf-emporium.net/movies/bbakraid_axebeak.avi

The player waits until the ammo batteries on the wings forward of the missile launchers activate, then chains everything into Axebeak's second form. Suicides once, and drops a bomb away from Axebeak to knock off the rear turret on Axebeak's second form. He gets 11,497,450 points to end the battle. And I thought our 4.2 million Axebeak strategy was impressive.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 4:05 am 


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It seems a lot easier to chain all the target points with any form of Flame Viper, since the charge attack is non-homing. Unlike the Saber Tiger which I'm a bit fond of, you can use the charge attack of the Viper to weaken both sides and maybe the wing batteries before linking them all together, and control just how much damage you do to all the target points and the main body of the boss.

Plus, you would lose a lot of potential points using a bomb to destroy the ammo batteries, which is why the player drops a bomb out of the way of the boss and uses the charge aura instead. I've managed to link one of the wing batteries into a 64x kill, but I destroyed it with the bomb blast, and only came out with about 5.6mil...

One other thing. I've noticed that the player uses the charge aura a lot in the game instead of Shot to destroy targets. Now I figure that this is to control what and when he destroys something, but just how powerful is the charge aura compared to conventional weaponry?

PS: thanks for the AVI btw. Don't mind if I mirror it?
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 5:39 am 



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Icarus wrote:
PS: thanks for the AVI btw. Don't mind if I mirror it?


You are more than welcome to. I actually captured the entire MAME replay to a 24-minute, 210MB+ AVI file, and you can mirror that as soon as I get it uploaded.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 2:44 am 


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Okay, I'm now sure I was off about the point gain differences with the aura. Before I thought that the aura gave the same value as bombing which is not always the case. My current view is that using the aura will always give you the higher point value. Some examples:

A small flying enemy happens to be worth 100 when shot down and 1000 when bombed. The aura gives you the 1000 as if bombed.

The cockpit on axebeak is worth 50000 when shot down and 5000 when bombed. The aura gives you the 50000 as if shot down.

I'll keep an eye on this and see if I notice anything inconsistent but that looks to be the pattern so far.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:02 am 


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Icarus wrote:
One other thing. I've noticed that the player uses the charge aura a lot in the game instead of Shot to destroy targets. Now I figure that this is to control what and when he destroys something, but just how powerful is the charge aura compared to conventional weaponry?


That's a good question. I think when you are bombing is a good time to use the aura. First, you're invincible, so it's safe to point blank anything with the aura to concentrate damage on a specific area. Second, when bombing, your side shot and options are temporarily disabled forcing you to deal damage only with your sometimes puny main shot.


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 1:41 am 


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I've added a screenshot-based walkthrough of the Axebeak 11mil technique, using Saber Tiger (Side). I'll be distributing the Forest stage replay which I took these snaps from soon, as well as mirroring the Flame Viper (Side) video that Alluro kindly encoded and distro'ed.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2005 5:24 am 


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Nice strategies there, Icarus.

If I had anything to add, it would just be that I think weakening all six missile launchers is really optional. Your first bomb will easily destroy the first three. You can get away with just weakening the three on the side that you will destroy with the aura.

Another thing of interest. I found a Japanese language Bakraid guide online. Too bad the only way for us to check it out is with an auto translator unless someone can translate. It gives a goal of at least 100,000,000 for the all clear which is much higher than the Y.K replay so you know there's some missing links filled in by this guide. Looks like it has strategies to chain the bosses on cloud for example and getting in there with the aura on Tiamat to get 50000x64 from his two side hatches.

Anyway here's the link. And a translated version here.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 2:15 am 


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Hmmm... I think I'm finally hitting that wall that Raiden mentioned about.

Apparently, some ships are better than others... It seems that strategys change completely when using the Sky Dragon, my favorite ship.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 16, 2005 3:19 am 


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I have noticed a few differences between all the ships during my time with Bakraid, with regards to Shot range, Shot piercing ability, charge aura positioning on the ship, and Side weapon power.

However, the only thing IMO that these will affect is some stage trips, and the battles with the bosses. A lot of players, and some Japanese guides, focus on the Side upgraded Flame Viper due to the immense power of the Side weapon, and the non-homing ability of the charge shot which allows you to deal more focused damage. However, I decided to focus on the Saber Tiger as I find the Flame Viper a bit overpowered, as the Side weapon can often destroy chain targets a bit too quickly, making it harder to stall to maintain a multiplier.

Ship differences shouldn't really affect your chaining in the long run, since about 90% of the time, you'll be relying on bombs, aura and timed suicides to maintain your chain. A lot of the strategies can be adapted to make use of the Sky Dragon's extra range and firepower, as I find the Sky Dragon is better played at pointblank range with Options and Side dealing the majority of the damage. You might have to work a bit faster at taking out chain targets though, since the weaponry on the Sky Dragon is slightly weaker than most ships.

Stick with it, I'd be interested in reading a few tricks from a Sky Dragon player (or any other ship besides the big three). I actually considered moving to a different ship, like the Lightning Wolf, as I'm starting to get lazy when I don't have to worry about where my Side weapons are firing :P
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2005 5:47 pm 



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In a slightly related note, I found out that Axebeak is a creature in the Dungeons and Dragons bestiary. Axebeak looks like a buzzard or vulture with a beak in the shape of an axe blade. A picture can be found here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ag/20030322a
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