Batsugun (normal and special edition)!

[Icarus]

You do, I've finally watched your video and you can definitely be faster in triggering the right conditions. Also, once you get used to the patterns, you should be able to reduce the shooting to a bare minimum and damage the boss only with bombs. Maybe some more tanks to take down on the fifth stage? 1,15 M is slightly lower than you should get, but it means just a couple of tanks more.

Got some news, Rando. Ten bombs on stage4 boss is really pushing it. I can get nine off safely, and about 5secs before the tanks turn red on the tenth go, the boss starts spraying big bullets, so I'm guessing it's a time thing rather than a damage thing. (And this is when I'm going at speed, too.)

I think it's about 24.5mil to end the first loop. If the Japanese are coming out of the loops with more than that, then there's some source of points missing, somewhere.

First loop replay coming up soon.

EDIT:
http://bigcore.rsdio.com/icarus/batsugu ... _24mil.avi

[Randorama]

Got some news, Rando. Ten bombs on stage4 boss is really pushing it.

Obviously, I certainly didn't consider sloppier options.

I can get nine off safely, and about 5secs before the tanks turn red on th
e tenth go, the boss starts spraying big bullets, so I'm guessing it's a time thing rather than a damage thing. (And this is when I'm going at speed, too.)

Have you tried to deal with these bullets somehow? Squeezing more bombings while doing mad dodging manouvres wouldn't be out of place, I tthink. I can't remember how big these time-out bullets are - but certainly there is a way to get MORE than 24,5 M per loop.

Where's our favourite Londoner btw? He certainly has some clues about these secret points sources.

[DEL]

Where's our favourite Londoner btw? He certainly has some clues about these secret points sources.

I'm here, don't worry

All I can say is; if you perform the ST4 and ST5 methods tightly on the first two loops, then perform them to a passable standard on the third and fourth loops, you will snag the Counter Stop without much fuss. (Albeit with only 6 lives )

I figured there was roughly about 110,000,000 max possible points in the four loops, so there's room for a mistake.


Regs, DEL

[Dave_K.]

Is someone updating the Strategy guide with this stuff? I just got the SP rom for my board and would like to start reading up on this.

[Icarus]

Putting in a session tonight. Will be posting my best 1st loop if I can get it, as well as approximate stage by stage scores for future reference.

Obviously, I certainly didn't consider sloppier options.

You calling me sloppy, cheeky bugger? (￣▽￣)
(You're not far off, actually.)

Have you tried to deal with these bullets somehow? Squeezing more bombings while doing mad dodging manouvres wouldn't be out of place, I tthink. I can't remember how big these time-out bullets are - but certainly there is a way to get MORE than 24,5 M per loop.

I can perhaps manage one or two passes, but any more and things get nasty. Those bullets are pretty big, and combined with everything else it can get pretty dangerous. Nine for safety.

All I can say is; if you perform the ST4 and ST5 methods tightly on the first two loops, then perform them to a passable standard on the third and fourth loops, you will snag the Counter Stop without much fuss. (Albeit with only 6 lives )

Well, you only get about six extra lives total anyway - two spare at start, 1mil Extend, three for clearing the 1st, 2nd and 3rd loop. The other thing is, I can do the first two loops pretty easily now. The only problem is, I still think I'm missing something, somewhere, if my current loop possible max is still a couple of mil lower than the recommended average. (See next paragraph.)

I figured there was roughly about 110,000,000 max possible points in the four loops, so there's room for a mistake.

How many bombs were you dropping on the stage 4 boss each time? The way I see it, the counterstop players are only suiciding once per loop, and most likely at the fourth boss, giving them a total of 10 bombs to play with.

Rando calculated that a 10 bomb drop on the fourth boss (that's a st4 boss 7 bombs + single suicide scoring run) plus all other scoring bonuses would give about 25.8mil per loop. If the estimated max per loop is about 27.5, where is the other 1.7mil coming from?

[Randorama]

Ok, I'll update the ST somewhere in the near future, in the meanwhile:

You calling me sloppy, cheeky bugger? (￣▽￣)
(You're not far off, actually.)

Well,

Those bullets are pretty big, and combined with everything else it can get pretty dangerous. Nine for safety.

This is Madness! The Spartans elders are crying in Elysian fields after your claim! The true shmupper goes well beyond safety for the immortal glory of the counter stop! And beside that, once the whole cycle is optimized to remove possible holes in execution, I think that an eleventh bomb can be placed. Not much more, I doubt the boss has all that energy.

Going from From 25,8M to 27,5M is just that, after all, certainly the remaining ~400k are not necessary...you would get a maximum of 27,1M and 27,1Mx3=81,3M after three loops. I think that it is what is going on, plus the odd extra points here and there.

[Icarus]

SPECIAL VERSION (Saturn Ver.)
Icarus - 64,484,210 - Stage 12 - Beltiana (Type B)



Bomb distribution was something like 10-8-5 throughout the stage n-4 loops. (And typically, I died trying for the tenth bomb in the first loop, from a giant bullet.) All platform bonus sections achieved. Round tank sections bombed four times in each loop. 24.8mil finishing first loop, 47.3mil finishing second loop.

Ouch. Killed when one experience point away from a shield and bomb. It's Raizing all over again.

Man, is loop 3 evil. -_-;;

Replay available.

This is Madness! The Spartans elders are crying in Elysian fields after your claim! The true shmupper goes well beyond safety for the immortal glory of the counter stop! And beside that, once the whole cycle is optimized to remove possible holes in execution, I think that an eleventh bomb can be placed. Not much more, I doubt the boss has all that energy.

Madness indeed. If you think you can find a pattern to the standard orange bullet spew with added F*CKING HUGE BULLET SPAM then you're a better man than me, as I panic as soon as it starts. -_-;;

Unless those big bullets are just all show and are actually a lot smaller than they appear, it makes everything so much harder. I'll keep trying for a safe tenth bomb in the first and second loop (and pray to God there's some kind of blindspot to exploit), but eleven is really pushing it a bit. ^_-

As for the rest of your post, I do see your point in that 11 bombs does make up 27mil for the loop. (I have done for the past few days we've been discussing this.) However, you forget, I'm the kind of player that prays for a slightly easier, more manageable solution. (￣▽￣)

EDIT: First loop scores per stage.
st1: 165k
st2: 550k (+385k)
st3: 2.3mil (+1.75mil, improved pig cluster section)
st4: 16.8mil (+14.5mil, 10 bombs strategy)
st5: 24.8mil (+8mil, platform and 4x roundtank bombs)

[Randorama]

Madness indeed. If you think you can find a pattern to the standard orange bullet spew with added F*CKING HUGE BULLET SPAM then you're a better man than me, as I panic as soon as it starts. -_-;;
However, you forget, I'm the kind of player that prays for a slightly easier, more manageable solution. (￣▽￣)

You might pray for some divinity to give you the magic japanese genes then (or ask for the game to make you "win!"). If you seriously want to score more than 25M per loop, I think you need 11 bombs. One way to nail those is probably to be extremely fast and be able to land the final bombing somewhere during the first spam of big bullets. It seems too chaotic to dodge all that stuff at once, so I actually doubt that you need to bother with them at all.

Via invicibility and autofire I have seen that one can pull off 11 bombings by destroying all turrets in a row, with minimal pauses. It seems to be the upper limit, I can't do much better on MAME.

EDIT: First loop scores per stage.
st1: 165k
st2: 550k (+385k)
st3: 2.3mil (+1.75mil, improved pig cluster section)

I think you can round it up to about 2,6M max.

st4: 16.8mil (+14.5mil, 10 bombs strategy)

An extra bombing should take you to 15,8M but 16M is in theory doable (have you tried to destroy the middle boss in the upper part of the screen, if it is doable of course...?)

st5: 24.8mil (+8mil, platform and 4x roundtank bombs)

8,2-8,3M should also be possible, by refining the tanks part and the pigs appearing after that (how to trigger those, I dunno).

Around 27M is thus fine, I think, else I don't see a counter-stop in the range.

[Icarus]

Via invicibility and autofire I have seen that one can pull off 11 bombings by destroying all turrets in a row, with minimal pauses. It seems to be the upper limit, I can't do much better on MAME.

Well, I had one quick go earlier to do a bit of safespot hunting and I found the perfect place to sit to destroy the central turret in the back set of 5, and it works even without a shield. When I sit down for a proper session later I'll try and do an all-in-one bombing run with the new safespot and see if it makes any difference.

st4: 16.8mil (+14.5mil, 10 bombs strategy)

An extra bombing should take you to 15,8M but 16M is in theory doable (have you tried to destroy the middle boss in the upper part of the screen, if it is doable of course...?)

Yes and it doesn't really make much difference, the pigs still go flying off the screen. Also, the midboss does something similar to Mars Matrix where the faster you kill a certain midboss, the longer the enemy waves that follow will last (the part with the Extend, if you remember).

In most cases it is better to quickly destroy the midboss and pick up a few more points from killing the following waves.

As for the 11 bombs thing, I did manage to work out how to get an extra bomb during the battle each and every time during last night's session, but it involves the use of the lavender pig in stage3.

8,2-8,3M should also be possible, by refining the tanks part and the pigs appearing after that (how to trigger those, I dunno).

Is your info in the ST regarding the second set of pigs in st5 wrong then? As I've never been able to trigger them yet, even with the info from the ST regarding the trigger command and the timing.

Around 27M is thus fine, I think, else I don't see a counter-stop in the range.

A safe 25mil+ per loop is all I'm after, with a bit extra for the first and second a bonus. Still need to work on the third loop however, as I use too many bombs as present.

[LUNardei]

Uh, what's this? Great work Ica, as usual, and keep on pushing it!

[Icarus]

Rando, how's this?



First loop clear, 26.3mil.
11 bombs on st4 boss, st5 platform and st5 roundtanks x4.

I have the perfect strategy now for doing the st4 boss each time, just need to refine it. The optimal technique is to destroy the central turret of the back five first; then the pairs to the left and right (in that order); then the right side laser cannon; then sweep straight over the central turret and destroy the left laser cannon. If done correctly, the big bullet spew will start just before the tanks turn red for the 11th bomb.

I've executed the 11 bomb technique on both the 1st and second loops without error (but made a mess of this credit before the end of the 2-5 platform bonus section, finishing the run with 44.6mil).

Now to work on the third loop. -_-;;

[Randorama]

You're almost there, one thing though: start practicing the last loop ASAP, the last type of suicide bullets is a pain to master. You don't get slow down on the Saturn, so you will need to practice more...At any case, with the current pace you should be around the counterstop, 26,3m*3=78,9M, 22M should be doable on the last loop.

[DEL]

Its all about that Stage 4 Method Icarus. If you can get those turrets destroyed and avoid unintentional deaths, you'll be heading for the 99,999,990.
I once did Stage 13 and 14 without loss of life (on the stages themselves), but its a stretch. I needed those Dip#3 extra lives from the 1st loop to pull me through . Best I did was ALL it on Normal skill level Counter Stop with 4 lives remaining. But that still puts me 9 lives shy of the correct default mark. If I had learnt the ST4 Method the Japanese way, which is fiddly but perfect if done correctly, I guess I could have knocked a few lives off my total deaths. But getting it all down to just 6 lives is such a major push (due to the pressure of the last 2 loops).

I salute you for trying Mister Icarus.

Like I mentioned last summer, the last 25mil is a pig to get.

[Icarus]

You're almost there, one thing though: start practicing the last loop ASAP, the last type of suicide bullets is a pain to master. You don't get slow down on the Saturn, so you will need to practice more...

I think I could probably fumble my way through the last stage. 4-4 is the real problem, however, as it's so long and the most important part of the counterstop attempt. Getting to the end of it with at least one life and a handful of bombs is the main focus.

I once did Stage 13 and 14 without loss of life (on the stages themselves), but its a stretch.

The third loop is quite evil. The fourth scares the life out of me. -_-;;

If I had learnt the ST4 Method the Japanese way, which is fiddly but perfect if done correctly, I guess I could have knocked a few lives off my total deaths. But getting it all down to just 6 lives is such a major push (due to the pressure of the last 2 loops).

You might be happy to know I've upped a clip of the optimal 11 bomb technique (done on the 2nd loop, no less). Perhaps it could give you some motivation to counterstop again. ^_^

http://bigcore.rsdio.com/icarus/batsugu ... op_icr.avi

I salute you for trying Mister Icarus.
Like I mentioned last summer, the last 25mil is a pig to get.

Thanks for the encouragement, fellas.
It's all uphill from here on. -_-;;

[Icarus]

Problem.
In the first loop, if you bomb Jupiter's row of tanks 11 times, you can only get a maximum of 2 extra bombs for the round tanks in the following stage (those lavender pigs don't generate experience fast enough on the first loop). Currently, the only way to get four bombs for the round tanks is to bomb Jupiter 9 times.

Question.
Is it possible to time out the big round turret before the end part of Jupiter (the one that gives two bombs)? If possible, those two bombs could be handy.

EDIT:
Answer.
Just tested it out in MAME with invincibility, and it does time out, but doesn't drop any bombs. ;_;
Back to the drawing board.

[Randorama]

I don't have the foggiest idea, have you tried to trigger the piggy piggies as soon as you can?

[Icarus]

I don't have the foggiest idea, have you tried to trigger the piggy piggies as soon as you can?

Yup, been doing it as soon as humanly possible each and every time. At present, no matter how fast you trigger the pigs, you'll always end up way short on experience points for the third bomb by the time you get to the round tanks.

At present, I'm leaning towards a 9-11-11-? bomb distribution for the loops, as I don't fancy suiciding twice in the first loop for the points just to find myself short-stocked on Extends for the last two loops. Will report back as I do more tests and find some results.

[Sonic R]

Normal Edition:
Sonic R - 1,314,660 - Stage 4 - Beltiana (Type B)

[LUNardei]

Special Version
AST-LUN - 30,487,240 - Stage 12 - Beltiana (Type B)

Just out of curiosity, how about the 4th boss technique in NORMAL mode? I find it quite difficult to perform. No wait, kinda hellish. Any tip/video around?

[powerfuran]

Special version:

AST-POW - 10,083,770 - Stage 8 - Alteeno (type B)




This game is really fun! Btw I just can't imagine how you guys manage to take care of the suicide bullets in high-loop game.

[powerfuran]

Just a little update:


AST-POW - 11,473,030 - Stage 9 - Alteeno (type B)

[stuminator]

Special version score:

stuminator - 36,567,100 - ALL - Beltiana (Type B)



I just need to get the Jupiter tank-milking thing down...

[LUNardei]

Normal version - FraGMarE - 17,065,440 - ALL CLEAR - Alteeno (Type B)

Secret scoring tricks galore in this game. All I have to say, is that the level 4 boss is a GOLDMINE.

May I ask any other info about this run? I mean, everything that could be useful, most of all what kind of strategy you went for, full leeching of 4th boss 'till the last bomb of the last life or something else.

[LUNardei]

Normal
AST-LUN - 7,990,670 - Stage 4 - Beltiana (Type B)

Baaad run

[powerfuran]

Great job LUN!


May I have my score updated? Thanks.

[LUNardei]

Randorama is giving up all the scoreboards, and this one is still without a new owner. So I think we have to wait for someone to take it over...
Don't look at me though

[FSR]

Normal Version, Sega Saturn

FSR - 8,424,560 - ALL - Iceman (Type C)

[stratos]

Normal, Saturn


stratos - 10,383,270 - stage 5 - Beltiana (type B)

[ktg]

Normal, Saturn

ktg - 1,428,370 - Stage 4 - Jeeno (Type A)

[ktg]

Special, Saturn

ktg - 8,622,670 - Stage 8 - Jeeno (Type A)

I've been giving special a run through whenever normal pisses me off. Managed a decent little starting score last night. The only scoring "trick" I pulled off was dropping a few bombs on the round tanks in stage 5.