TV RGB mod thread

[L5hunter]

I realized I had another TV in my basement, this one a toshiba 14af45. The service manual is available on elektrotanya and the jungle ic data sheet is here, and I just want to make sure I'm understanding what it is I'm supposed to do before I go even ordering anything, because I am a gibbon.

So I want my RGB signals going into pins 21-23 on ic601(through caps and with resistors to ground), 5v from vcc (pin 41 would work, right?) into pin 24, and sync into luma on pin 51, yes? Now, I notice that on my particular board there's a line of vias basically dead centre between 101 and 601, bridged across on the other side of the board. I could just get rid of those bridges and wire the switch to the vias there so I don't have to lift or cut anything, right? Also, since I don't seem to be able to find any, where might I buy the female 21-pin scart socket? That seems like it might be important.
Also also (goodness, I'm editing this comment a lot) how would any of you suggest going about audio? is it okay to hook it up straight into the mixer through the scart? I don't see why it wouldn't work but I might just not be looking hard enough.


My apologies if these questions are dumb or have obvious answers that I'm just too dumb to see, and thanks in advance for the help.

Audio goes from the SCART socket into the RCA lines for the input you have selected. No caps or resistors required for that. I believe mouser sells a female scart socket, or you could butcher a female SCART cable too.

[jwo825]

I just picked up a very cool little Sony KV-1557R. It's gotta be an early 80's set. Right now i'm just using it to be able to play my Atari and Intellivision until I can mod them to play on the PVM. Later, after more research I'd like to attempt to mod it if it's possible. I'm having trouble tracking down the service manual on this little bugger. Does anyone have a source for finding obscure documents like this.

[L5hunter]

I just picked up a very cool little Sony KV-1557R. It's gotta be an early 80's set. Right now i'm just using it to be able to play my Atari and Intellivision until I can mod them to play on the PVM. Later, after more research I'd like to attempt to mod it if it's possible. I'm having trouble tracking down the service manual on this little bugger. Does anyone have a source for finding obscure documents like this.

Sounds to me like you need to give this guy an email: http://www.agoraquest.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=120104

[jwo825]

I just picked up a very cool little Sony KV-1557R. It's gotta be an early 80's set. Right now i'm just using it to be able to play my Atari and Intellivision until I can mod them to play on the PVM. Later, after more research I'd like to attempt to mod it if it's possible. I'm having trouble tracking down the service manual on this little bugger. Does anyone have a source for finding obscure documents like this.

Sounds to me like you need to give this guy an email: http://www.agoraquest.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=120104

Thanks for the info I will definitely reach out to him.

[Lebeauluc]

I realized I had another TV in my basement, this one a toshiba 14af45. The service manual is available on elektrotanya and the jungle ic data sheet is here, and I just want to make sure I'm understanding what it is I'm supposed to do before I go even ordering anything, because I am a gibbon.

So I want my RGB signals going into pins 21-23 on ic601(through caps and with resistors to ground), 5v from vcc (pin 41 would work, right?) into pin 24, and sync into luma on pin 51, yes? Now, I notice that on my particular board there's a line of vias basically dead centre between 101 and 601, bridged across on the other side of the board. I could just get rid of those bridges and wire the switch to the vias there so I don't have to lift or cut anything, right? Also, since I don't seem to be able to find any, where might I buy the female 21-pin scart socket? That seems like it might be important.
Also also (goodness, I'm editing this comment a lot) how would any of you suggest going about audio? is it okay to hook it up straight into the mixer through the scart? I don't see why it wouldn't work but I might just not be looking hard enough.


My apologies if these questions are dumb or have obvious answers that I'm just too dumb to see, and thanks in advance for the help.

Audio goes from the SCART socket into the RCA lines for the input you have selected. No caps or resistors required for that. I believe mouser sells a female scart socket, or you could butcher a female SCART cable too.

I am highly interested in your progress, I have a toshiba 27af44 and even if you have a "newer" model, it has the same video chip. According to the service manual, it's a M61283FP which can take digital and analog RGB. It's been previously said in this thread that it is way harder or impossible to hack a digital comb filter, I am hopping that you would be successful and I am hopping that expert modders confirm that set is hackable.

[KnuckleheadFlow]

Ok so screwed up that other tv by ripping of the pin completely so now I got another tv its an RCA and ic is ta1282n.

Am I supposed to undo the f-blk pin 14 from circuitry? and where do I tie that pin into for a 5v source?

If there's a diode on the f-blk line between the pin and the source, the mcu, then you don't need to disconnect it. Connect it after the diode and the diode will keep the electricity from flowing back into the mcu. If there isn't a diode there, then yes, when applying the 5V DC you should disconnect the line and connect it to one input of a SP2T, for example. And if you don't know, then disconnecting will do no harm.

Best source for 5V would be a the output of a 5V voltage regulator, though I imagine the current draw on the pin is probably low enough that taking it from a nearby 5V IC's Vcc (power supply) pin will be fine.

I see you're using the SCART's housing for your termination resistors, but do you have the housing connected to ground on the TV's board somewhere?

You also may want to consider putting those caps on the IC side of the wires. I don't know if it'll make a difference but every schematic I've seen has the decoupling caps right before the input pins and not having capacitors close enough to their pins has caused me problems before.

[tjsynkral]

I am highly interested in your progress, I have a toshiba 27af44 and even if you have a "newer" model, it has the same video chip. According to the service manual, it's a M61283FP which can take digital and analog RGB. It's been previously said in this thread that it is way harder or impossible to hack a digital comb filter, I am hopping that you would be successful and I am hopping that expert modders confirm that set is hackable.

Only composite goes through the comb filter, so that shouldn't pose any trouble for you at all if you connect sync to luma.

[jwo825]

So, I found out my Sony if-1557r is a 1984 model. It only has RF in. I slid the back cover off to have a look and I was able to locate one IC that looked of significance. On the back side of the board, Y/C is printed on the PCB. Sounds like a good candidate for the jungle IC? The Printing on the IC is:

Sony 848
4A 216

I have done a bit of searching but haven't come up with any info about the chip yet. Is there a good source for video encoder data sheets?

[KnuckleheadFlow]

Man, 1984? I don't know if that'd even have an on screen display, let alone a full colour one.

[jwo825]

Man, 1984? I don't know if that'd even have an on screen display, let alone a full colour one.

It does not have an OSD. I haven't been through the whole thread yet, but I was thinking just replace the RF in totally if possible. I'm guessing that'll depend on whether or not the encoder even accepts RGb input.

[KnuckleheadFlow]

I'm almost certain it will not. No OSD, no easy RGB. The only RGB you'll find on that TV will be the final stage driving the electron guns on the tube. People have tried to get RGB going there, with not-so-great results from what I remember. You can try if you want, but frankly with an old ass TV like that and the ease with which you can find a newer (but not too new) TV that is easily moddable for free, I wouldn't even bother. You can look for one of the TVs listed in the OP that someone here has done and copy what they did.

[jwo825]

I gotcha. i already have a PVM, so once I have my Intellivision and Atari modded, this set won't have a purpose anymore. And I got it nearly free so I'm not worried about messing it up. But it's a project that I'm considering just to have something to do. I need to track down the service manual to be able to see what I'm working with. Then, I need to do a lot more reading. I understand the basics of a crt, even slid the case off a few for adjustments, but don't grasp everything on a component level yet.

[Oldskoolmaniac]

Ive been trying to mod this Sylvania 6420ff, but sadly there is no jungle ic chip on the board so im tying into the wires going to the neck board and I cleaned up my scart cable really well it almost look professionally done. The color is right, but the picture almost looks 3D like the RGB guns are not aligned, what would be causing this? should a change my caps out? right now im running 0.1uf.

It would be really awesome to get this mod to work cause this tv does have really good picture to it and it the perfect size that I need.

Here a few pics from my PS1 and Genesis
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8 ... e=5982768B
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8 ... e=5984FFD3
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8 ... e=599728DE
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8 ... e=59842726

[lukilla]

Hi, I don´t know what happened to my previous post but anyway @Oldskoolmaniac do you really have to use that tv?, because for that method to look decently you would need to build an amp and make adjustments I think, and then it still wont work well with other consoles. I´d leave that method for computers with emulators, which usually works fine.

[tjsynkral]

Ive been trying to mod this Sylvania 6420ff, but sadly there is no jungle ic chip on the board so im tying into the wires going to the neck board and I cleaned up my scart cable really well it almost look professionally done. The color is right, but the picture almost looks 3D like the RGB guns are not aligned, what would be causing this? should a change my caps out? right now im running 0.1uf.

It would be really awesome to get this mod to work cause this tv does have really good picture to it and it the perfect size that I need.

Have you got a service manual for the TV? Trying to do this without one is not for newbies.

[Oldskoolmaniac]

Sadly I can't find a service manual at all for it. Its got awesome picture when hook to s-video and its the perfect size.

Im thinking about giving up on it. I did have one tv working perfectly with my ps1, but my SNES, N64 and Genesis had very dark colors and anything that was supposed to be white was black.

Now im waiting on a OSSC upscaler for my 32'' samsung. Ill be running dual tvs, PS1-Genesis-N64-SNES--->14'' Sony PVM, PVM exit ports to--->OSSC--->32'' Samsung. Thats how I have it set up right now instead of the ossc im using a crappy scart to component convertor from ebay.

Who knows I might get bored again and try at it.

[ltwm3]

Hey folks, I've got a KV-32FS100 I'm planning to mod, but I have the opportunity to grab a KV-36FS17 for RGB modding as well. I haven't been able to find anyone who's asked about one yet, so I'd like to know if someone who's experienced can take a gander at these service manual pages to see if its a viable option. It's got a CXA2131CS on board. Thanks in advance!

[KnuckleheadFlow]

Yeah dude, give 'er.

[tjsynkral]

Sadly I can't find a service manual at all for it. Its got awesome picture when hook to s-video and its the perfect size.

Im thinking about giving up on it. I did have one tv working perfectly with my ps1, but my SNES, N64 and Genesis had very dark colors and anything that was supposed to be white was black.

There has got to be a jungle IC, the question is whether it's a one-chip deal where the OSD is internal to the jungle. If you have RGB inputs on the jungle IC you'll see 3 adjacent pins receiving signals through a 0.1 or 0.01 cap and a 4th pin receiving fast blanking. If you can get to that point, you should have 100% success following the instructions I've provided in this thread.

You're not likely to have a good result connecting to the RGB out (going to the neck).

[tjsynkral]

Hey folks, I've got a KV-32FS100 I'm planning to mod, but I have the opportunity to grab a KV-36FS17 for RGB modding as well. I haven't been able to find anyone who's asked about one yet, so I'd like to know if someone who's experienced can take a gander at these service manual pages to see if its a viable option. It's got a CXA2131CS on board. Thanks in advance!

Those are both very moddable but working on 32 and 36ers, or even moving them around, is a real pain. I wouldn't recommend one as the first try at an RGB mod.

Also the FS TVs sometimes have uncorrectable edge/corner convergence problems. If you're picking one up and it's not off someone's curb, try to check the picture quality first. I've had a few of those where I spent 3-4x as long trying to tweak the convergence (and still not getting a perfect result) as it took me to add RGB input. If I get stuck with one of these from now on, it gets dumped and I try to find another one.

[ltwm3]

Yeah dude, give 'er.

That directed at me? If so can I use the same schematic for getting the KV-32FS100 modded for RGB input as previously mentioned?

[KnuckleheadFlow]

Yup, if the second picture there is from that TV. Leads 25-28 on CXA2131CS even have little arrows pointing at them, practically screaming "mod us!"

[suprcrackers]

Hey folks, I've got a KV-32FS100 I'm planning to mod, but I have the opportunity to grab a KV-36FS17 for RGB modding as well. I haven't been able to find anyone who's asked about one yet, so I'd like to know if someone who's experienced can take a gander at these service manual pages to see if its a viable option. It's got a CXA2131CS on board. Thanks in advance!

Those are both very moddable but working on 32 and 36ers, or even moving them around, is a real pain. I wouldn't recommend one as the first try at an RGB mod.

Also the FS TVs sometimes have uncorrectable edge/corner convergence problems. If you're picking one up and it's not off someone's curb, try to check the picture quality first. I've had a few of those where I spent 3-4x as long trying to tweak the convergence (and still not getting a perfect result) as it took me to add RGB input. If I get stuck with one of these from now on, it gets dumped and I try to find another one.

I agree they are a pain with the geometry, but if you are modding for yourself, size does matter.

[ltwm3]

Yup, if the second picture there is from that TV. Leads 25-28 on CXA2131CS even have little arrows pointing at them, practically screaming "mod us!"

Excellent! Now if I may, the voltage spec sheet I have posted states that spec is 4.7v into the RGB input pins, if this is the case, the RGB mod for the KV-32FS100 says that it's goal is to apply .7v to the RGB pins, how does that apply to this TV and why are we trying to reduce the input voltage of the RGB?

Also, I have Voultar's RGB amp inside my SNES, and nothing in my Genesis and SMS, will this cause an issue for me? And if so how do I approach this situation? Everything rolls through my Crosspoint to my BVM and XRGB Mini at this point with no issue.

Hey folks, I've got a KV-32FS100 I'm planning to mod, but I have the opportunity to grab a KV-36FS17 for RGB modding as well. I haven't been able to find anyone who's asked about one yet, so I'd like to know if someone who's experienced can take a gander at these service manual pages to see if its a viable option. It's got a CXA2131CS on board. Thanks in advance!

Those are both very moddable but working on 32 and 36ers, or even moving them around, is a real pain. I wouldn't recommend one as the first try at an RGB mod.

Also the FS TVs sometimes have uncorrectable edge/corner convergence problems. If you're picking one up and it's not off someone's curb, try to check the picture quality first. I've had a few of those where I spent 3-4x as long trying to tweak the convergence (and still not getting a perfect result) as it took me to add RGB input. If I get stuck with one of these from now on, it gets dumped and I try to find another one.

I agree they are a pain with the geometry, but if you are modding for yourself, size does matter.

Please excuse my ignorance in this situation, as I don't have an eye for CRT Geometry issues, in fact I haven't even calibrated my BVM properly and I think it looks amazing. With that said, how can I pickup on convergence issues? What am I looking for altogether with geometry, is there a test screen? Might be time for me to invest in a Everdrive and get the 240p suite?

Thank you everybody so far for the education. I've been doing electrical projects for awhile, and I think this is going to be fun!

[KnuckleheadFlow]

Excellent! Now if I may, the voltage spec sheet I have posted states that spec is 4.7v into the RGB input pins, if this is the case, the RGB mod for the KV-32FS100 says that it's goal is to apply .7v to the RGB pins, how does that apply to this TV and why are we trying to reduce the input voltage of the RGB?

I might be wrong, but believe those voltages include the bias voltage. I know that my Toshiba and JVC had 2.2 V listed on those. I haven't done a Trinitron yet, but from what I gather from those that have, you shouldn't need to do anything. Just repeat what leonk and others have done and you'll be set.

Also, I have Voultar's RGB amp inside my SNES, and nothing in my Genesis and SMS, will this cause an issue for me? And if so how do I approach this situation? Everything rolls through my Crosspoint to my BVM and XRGB Mini at this point with no issue.

I think my old model 1's stock RGB output looks fantastic. From what I've read, though its composite output was shit, the Genesis' RGB output is considered top notch among home consoles. I was seriously impressed with how good it looks now compared to a regular SNES'. I would've been a lot less jealous as a kid if this is how I was playing it!

Edit: And despite what I might have written before, I have not had any issues with jailbars. Board revision VA3.

[tjsynkral]

Also, I have Voultar's RGB amp inside my SNES, and nothing in my Genesis and SMS, will this cause an issue for me? And if so how do I approach this situation? Everything rolls through my Crosspoint to my BVM and XRGB Mini at this point with no issue.

I think my old model 1's stock RGB output looks fantastic. From what I've read, though its composite output was shit, the Genesis' RGB output is considered top notch among home consoles. I was seriously impressed with how good it looks now compared to a regular SNES'. I would've been a lot less jealous as a kid if this is how I was playing it!

In my experience with SNES, the very first models with the separate sound unit and S-ENC video chip put out very soft and drab RGB (as well as S) and barely worth upgrading that model from S to RGB. However, if you modify that model SNES with component output, the sharpness is fantastic and you get perfect square pixels. The only downside is the color temperature is noticeably different from RGB and other video outputs, so you'll be adjusting the color settings on your TV when you switch.

The SNES Jr provides great RGB with the RetroRGB board (I added S and CSYNC as well). It's not quite as sharp as the component mod for the S-ENC model but it's much better than the original and you don't have the calibration issues.

Side note, I don't have experience with the later SNES Phat 1-chip models.

[suprcrackers]

Also, I have Voultar's RGB amp inside my SNES, and nothing in my Genesis and SMS, will this cause an issue for me? And if so how do I approach this situation? Everything rolls through my Crosspoint to my BVM and XRGB Mini at this point with no issue.

I think my old model 1's stock RGB output looks fantastic. From what I've read, though its composite output was shit, the Genesis' RGB output is considered top notch among home consoles. I was seriously impressed with how good it looks now compared to a regular SNES'. I would've been a lot less jealous as a kid if this is how I was playing it!

In my experience with SNES, the very first models with the separate sound unit and S-ENC video chip put out very soft and drab RGB (as well as S) and barely worth upgrading that model from S to RGB. However, if you modify that model SNES with component output, the sharpness is fantastic and you get perfect square pixels. The only downside is the color temperature is noticeably different from RGB and other video outputs, so you'll be adjusting the color settings on your TV when you switch.

The SNES Jr provides great RGB with the RetroRGB board (I added S and CSYNC as well). It's not quite as sharp as the component mod for the S-ENC model but it's much better than the original and you don't have the calibration issues.

Side note, I don't have experience with the later SNES Phat 1-chip models.

So are you saying a component modded 1st gen SNES has a superior picture to a 1chip RGB modded SNES that uses a 7374? Or are you basing your findings of the old 7314s or off the standard stock RGB output with resistors to reduce the brightness?

I'm asking because on my 1chip I just took 750ohm resistors to ground and called it a day. I thought the picture looked pretty good compared to my old first gens RGB, but I have always wondered how a 7374 based solution would look in there. I really liked the results in had with my PC Engine using the 7374. Interested in doing a component mod to my first gen SNES too. Thanks.

[Pikkon]

Here's my component modded super fami running on my trinitron.

[RGB0b]

So are you saying a component modded 1st gen SNES has a superior picture to a 1chip RGB modded SNES that uses a 7374?

Absolutely not. If anyone claims this is true, post direct screen caps with a high-quality capture card that doesn't compress the colors (4:4:4 vs 4:2:2).

I'm asking because on my 1chip I just took 750ohm resistors to ground and called it a day. I thought the picture looked pretty good compared to my old first gens RGB, but I have always wondered how a 7374 based solution would look in there. I really liked the results in had with my PC Engine using the 7374. Interested in doing a component mod to my first gen SNES too. Thanks.

Your average gamer won't notice the difference between a 1CHIP with the resistor addition vs the 7374. Anyone with a Sony BVM, or OSSC into a nice flat-screen will most likely notice a difference.

[jwo825]

I'm asking because on my 1chip I just took 750ohm resistors to ground and called it a day. I thought the picture looked pretty good compared to my old first gens RGB, but I have always wondered how a 7374 based solution would look in there. I really liked the results in had with my PC Engine using the 7374. Interested in doing a component mod to my first gen SNES too. Thanks.

I used Voultar's 7434 amp on my Super Famicom (1Chip-02) and aside from just doing the color correction, it made the picture noticeably sharper. This is on account of the 7434 bypassing or turning off the low pass filter, which was initially put there to soften the picture. It's neck and neck with my modded mini now. I am playing on a PVM20L5. I would highly recommend the upgrade to your 1-chip if you have a PVM or BVM. Not sure if you'd see much improvement on a consumer CRT, though.