Prelude to the Apocalypse

[Zen]

No -- I'm saying that if we started the clock now, the argument that culture is born of race doesn't hold. In another 100 years, even less.

Ah, I understand. You refer to a new, non racially homogeneous Culture? One that's is and has been, well underway for quite some time now, no doubt.

It's a very interesting concept.
Consider; as this multi-racial Culture would not be, in the main, emanating form a genetically mixed Race (not yet, at least) but instead from individual Races operating together,
it therefore would not come from within but instead from without. A "Cloud" Culture, if you will!

Could it work? Well, I am too old and too White, to have a positive outlook on such a thing.

For example, an immediate concern would be that, as this new Culture would exist outside of the people, it could be re-written like a wiki page.
True "Democracy" Culture; Mob rules and open to the strongest influencer! A predators paradise, no?

No, no. The strongest Races, have the strongest Cultures and an EthnoState is practically an immovable object compared to the above.
I'd give "Cloud Culture" a few generations, before it goes full 1984.

But then again, what the fuck do I know.

Hawaii. Spoiler: the only Japanese culture there is from the tourists because... they're all fucking Americans!

[Ed Oscuro]

Also; What is this talk of "Hate"? I do not hate anyone.

So tell me, then, do you think Jews can be a part of American society, if they have distinct culture or religious practices?

It must be convenient that all the best parts of the world are reserved for people with pure "cultures," as you put it. It is also convenient that you see "diversity" as a bad thing, and that when I mention diversity, such as in history, you say "all is dust" to insinuate that accepting the reality of history and evolution is defeatist.

This isn't even getting into the problems with your using "culture" as equivalent to "race." Are there little pairs of lederhosen embroidered in a German's double helix? Did American culture all come from the Puritans?

It would also be nice if you told me what you mean instead of dropping names as if they mean something. When I hear "cultural relativism" I have to assume that it bears some kin to everybody's favorite hobby horse, "moral relativism." Saying that somebody follows this or that school means little to me when I have done my own thinking. It's just more dogma unless backed up with some examples, and your ability to name things does not demonstrate that you even know what they mean, let alone convince me that they are worth a place in this discussion. (If this is actually a discussion, that is.)

[Zen]

So tell me, then, do you think Jews can be a part of American society, if they have distinct culture or religious practices?

Do you think that American Society, can be part of Jewish Culture? Does that answer your question?
If you need a straight answer, Ed, then my answer is, no.

If you believe otherwise, I would ask you how the majority of Americans are faring "living" with possibly the highest IQ, Ethnically aware Race on the planet? That working out well for you chaps?

I am an Ethno Nationalist, Ed. What answer did you expect?

I respect the right of all races to exist on their own terms. Not in futile competition with, nor in forced conservatorship of, another.

It must be convenient that all the best parts of the world are reserved for people with pure "cultures," as you put it.

"Convenience" had and has nothing to do with it. "Fittness" does.

This isn't even getting into the problems with your using "culture" as equivalent to "race."

Culture is unique to and comes from, Race. Where is the problem?

These Cultures Are there little pairs of lederhosen embroidered in a German's double helix?

Yes.

Did American culture all come from the Puritans?

No.

It would also be nice if you told me what you mean instead of dropping names as if they mean something. When I hear "cultural relativism" I have to assume that it bears some kin to everybody's favorite hobby horse, "moral relativism." Saying that somebody follows this or that school means little to me when I have done my own thinking. It's just more dogma unless backed up with some examples, and your ability to name things does not demonstrate that you even know what they mean, let alone convince me that they are worth a place in this discussion. (If this is actually a discussion, that is.)

Jesus Christ, Ed!

You not knowing whether my references have any bearing on the discussion is one thing. That's fine.
Ignorantly making accusations against me, is not.

Now, I have already gotten angry with one member on this thread today. That is regrettable.
I do not intend to go for a double on the same day.

[GaijinPunch]

No -- I'm saying that if we started the clock now, the argument that culture is born of race doesn't hold. In another 100 years, even less.

Ah, I understand. You refer to a new, non racially homogeneous Culture? One that's is and has been, well underway for quite some time now, no doubt.

It's a very interesting concept.
Consider; as this multi-racial Culture would not be, in the main, emanating form a genetically mixed Race (not yet, at least) but instead from individual Races operating together,
it therefore would not come from within but instead from without. A "Cloud" Culture, if you will!

Could it work? Well, I am too old and too White, to have a positive outlook on such a thing.

For example, an immediate concern would be that, as this new Culture would exist outside of the people, it could be re-written like a wiki page.
True "Democracy" Culture; Mob rules and open to the strongest influencer! A predators paradise, no?

No, no. The strongest Races, have the strongest Cultures and an EthnoState is practically an immovable object compared to the above.
I'd give "Cloud Culture" a few generations, before it goes full 1984.

But then again, what the fuck do I know.

Hawaii. Spoiler: the only Japanese culture there is from the tourists because... they're all fucking Americans!

I think you're doing here what the Japanese have perfected: over complicating things. I think people, especially kids, absorb their surroundings: period. I laid the ground work for my son to have the best taste in music no matter where he landed, and as we split up and I lost that daily interaction with him, accompanied by him going to public school in the US, he now love's the worst bullshit you can imagine + whatever his mother plays him (which is not really any better). It's worth of a Donald Trump style "#sad".

[quash]

At the rate things are going and how actually fucking stupid people have proven themselves to be time and again, I'm at the point of not caring anymore. California wants to be taxed without representation, wants chickens to have better lives before they're slaughtered, and wants to spend billions on subsidizing homelessness and mental illness. Meanwhile, they voted against funding water infrastructure after a third of the state almost went underwater, told dialysis patients to go fuck themselves, and cucked for foreign investors by voting against localized rent control. I couldn't help but notice while researching these propositions that everything I was against was funded in large part by Zuckerberg, and everything I voted for was vehemently opposed by the usual suspects.

I guess if you like the idea of the Facebook/Amazon/Google future, this is the place to be. If you don't care to see the concept of ownership thrown out the window, you should probably move out of the US while our passports and currency aren't toilet paper.

[GaijinPunch]

At the rate things are going and how actually fucking stupid people have proven themselves to be time and again, I'm at the point of not caring anymore. California wants to be taxed without representation, wants chickens to have better lives before they're slaughtered, and wants to spend billions on subsidizing homelessness and mental illness. Meanwhile, they voted against funding water infrastructure after a third of the state almost went underwater, told dialysis patients to go fuck themselves, and cucked for foreign investors by voting against localized rent control. I couldn't help but notice while researching these propositions that everything I was against was funded in large part by Zuckerberg, and everything I voted for was vehemently opposed by the usual suspects.

Dunno... you're probably wrong about all of it, but off the top of my head: rent control works real well... just look at NYC ( ) and why would you not want things you eat (eg put in you body) to have somewhat sanitary (even human) conditions before eating them? I guess we're used to seeing such erroneous summations in this thread though.

[quash]

Dunno... you're probably wrong about all of it

See for yourself: https://ballotpedia.org/California_2018_ballot_measures

but off the top of my head: rent control works real well... just look at NYC ( )

It's better than giving Chinese billionaires free reign over the real estate market. Principle kinda gets flipped on its head when you're dealing with oligarchy/state sponsored monopolies.

and why would you not want things you eat (eg put in you body) to have somewhat sanitary (even human) conditions before eating them?

Priorities. Half of this state can't get enough water and the half that can doesn't have a good place to keep it. The chickens can wait until we either get our shit together with the most essential part of our infrastructure, or we become so enlightened from the stench of our own farts that we won't need water.

I guess we're used to seeing such erroneous summations in this thread though.

When you vote away the ability to vote on all future tax increases, how else can you summarize it besides how I did?

Also, how do you reconcile such a "liberal" state that supposedly cares about everyone and particularly everyone's right to healthcare telling dialysis patients that their treatments are essentially a blank check to clinics?

[Rob]

No, but I'm not working backwards to try and justify increasing strife

I'm very confused (maybe I'm not reading something correctly) about what it is that you think you've been justifying or advocating or rah-rahing. Ethnic and religious divisions are primary causes of conflict, historically, everywhere - surely you know this. There will always be conflict, but the ideal should be limiting unnecessary conflict. Adding Islam to Christian-majority nations is peak unnecessary conflict. Historically this has been the kind of conflict that ends with one side removed. For someone who seems to have read a decent amount of history and likes to take lessons from it, again, I'm confused - do you think human nature has changed, that we are all much wiser, or that an authoritarian government can keep this tumultuous mix from unraveling with speech laws, mandated association, hiring practices, cameras on every corner and more?

Speaking of which, you guys are being very sloppy on interchanging the use of the terms "race" or "genetics" and "culture." Calling it "culture" is not much of a fig leaf when you start saying Somalis are inbred, which is clearly a racial comment (and with no real basis in fact).

General response to the scorchingly hot (boring?) race and culture question: I think the main thing that can be said is that genes affect culture and culture affects genes. Who you are is determined by genes interacting with environment (not just genes, not just the environment - obviously, or should be obvious). If you have a group of people closely related genetically, and in relative isolation, you will get a distinct culture that is something that can be considered representative of race - an expression of that people. It is not a fixed thing, of course, like the people are not fixed, and culture can evolve faster than a people. An explosion of creativity, like the scientific revolution, or the spread of a religion can completely alter cultures very rapidly, whereas surviving tribal cultures have probably remained close to the same for thousands of years. For culture influencing genes, a good example is consanguineous marriage mentioned above. If a culture practices cousin marriage generation after generation, that is naturally going to leave a significant imprint on the gene pool. Or if certain actions/behavioral traits are punished or rewarded. Executing certain types of criminals will change a gene pool. If intellectual pursuits or hunting prowess are rewarded with more power, resources and higher rates of reproductive success, that will change the gene pool. The idea that all people from all corners of the planet are the same, with the same potential at everything and every discrepancy is due to systemic oppression, racism or whatever, after hundreds of generations of these gene-sorting forces (also with mutations that have appeared and proliferated in one location, and have not had the time to spread as widely elsewhere, if at all), and that one group's culture can simply be bequeathed to another, is an absurdity.

I'm not keen on tons of immigration because there are just too damn many people.

You should stick with this instinct and then we can agree.

Maybe at the initial starting point. How would this ideology explainthe majority of Asian Americans who are completely ignorant (or mostly ignorant anyway) of the culture of their heritage? One adopts the culture of their surroundings... regardless of race.

What do you think accounts for Asian-American success (relative to other groups)?

[Rob]

The chickens can wait until we either get our shit together with the most essential part of our infrastructure,

It's also the kind of joke that appeals to people who just want to feel better about themselves. "Cage-free" = thousands of chickens crammed in a hangar with little room to move, marinating in filth, but at least enough room to peck each other to death. How about fatties stop eating so much chicken? But can't put that one on a ballot.

[Mortificator]

What do you think accounts for Asian-American success (relative to other groups)?

Did your mail order econ courses tell you Asian-Americans are genetically different than other Asians?

[Rob]

The thread's #1 stalker-retard returns. I have no idea how you could read that line and produce that sentence as a response. You are very special, but should save it for your friends and family.

[Zen]

I think you're doing here what the Japanese have perfected: over complicating things.

You could be right.

I think people, especially kids, absorb their surroundings: period.

Agreed.

I laid the ground work for my son to have the best taste in music no matter where he landed, and as we split up and I lost that daily interaction with him, accompanied by him going to public school in the US, he now love's the worst bullshit you can imagine + whatever his mother plays him (which is not really any better). It's worth of a Donald Trump style "#sad".

I was going to write a long comment but; "over complicating things"
Short version; Wait and see. "It ain't over 'til it's over".

[Specineff]

Sinema wins the Az senate seat. McSally concedes.

https://www.npr.org/2018/11/12/66721414 ... enate-seat

Seems the signatures did match, in the end.

[Rob]

When citizens of Mexico get really excited about the results of U.S. border state elections we can be sure that it's good for citizens of the U.S.

[Specineff]

It's not like you can do much about it, huh? Given that two members of my family were able to vote for the first time, and along with my spouse, felt that the democratic ticket was the better option, it's good the results proved Trump's claims wrong, on top of the check on him that will go into effect next January.

Nice try, Robbie. But that tune got old ages ago.

[GaijinPunch]

What do you think accounts for Asian-American success (relative to other groups)?

Lazy Americans + H1 visas

I laid the ground work for my son to have the best taste in music no matter where he landed, and as we split up and I lost that daily interaction with him, accompanied by him going to public school in the US, he now love's the worst bullshit you can imagine + whatever his mother plays him (which is not really any better). It's worth of a Donald Trump style "#sad".

I was going to write a long comment but; "over complicating things"
Short version; Wait and see. "It ain't over 'til it's over".[/quote]

Being an oddball a lot of my life, and of course, nothing but the envy of all others now, I have high hopes for him. His mother and I do not see eye to eye on much of anything though. I'm sure it will turn out well, but it's going to be a bitch of a ride.

[Mischief Maker]

Tulsi Gabbard should run with Bernie's platform. Medicare for All, end or severely sever the current failed path of the drug war, a new deal style jobs program in renewable energy, from someone willing to fight for the country and not buy the establishment garbage on things like Syria, someone who would step up for Yemen even when Saudi Arabia buys all our toys, etc. It would be so easy to go against Trump if the person were just earnest and virtuous, not another tow-the-line talking head, a veteran that genuinely doesn't like to see suffering. It's simple unless you're a strategist I guess.

I'm gonna guess by the issues you just listed that you're a fan of Jimmy Dore. I used to be a big fan of Jimmy, he has a comedian's skill at keeping that 2016 primary rage-gasm going for two years straight. But I've come to the conclusion that he's worse than useless to the left, he's an actual danger.

Tulsi Gabbard's resigning during the 2016 primary was a noble gesture, but it was just a gesture and she has some serious skeletons in her closet. From anti-gay activism, to cult involvement, to buddying up with Modi in India. She may not identify as a 3rd-way democrat, but she's certainly demonstrated a proclivity to lean right. I would trust Kamala Harris to deliver on a progressive agenda more than I would trust in Tulsi Gabbard. So why is Jimmy Dore so infatuated by her?

Either Jimmy Dore is incredibly lazy when it comes to research, or he knows his massive patreon income isn't entirely from progressives and TYT have another Dave Rubin in the making, (before I quit watching him I remember quite clearly a time he bragged that he had a lot of right-wingers watching his show, "they say I'm a straight shooter!") Well of course they would when he used Fox News as a source to push the Seth Rich conspiracy theory, advocated making alliances with white supremacist rape-apologists to somehow "end war," and holy shit, gave a lavish tongue bath to Brazilian fascists because they claimed to be fighting "corruption" without thinking, "gee, I wonder if the Republican Judiciary might try doing to Bernie Sanders in the US what they did to Lula da Silva in Brazil?"

And even within his own purported political strategy he can't be consistent. He said that if the Green Party could convincingly grab enough votes to spoil the election of corporate democrats it would be a lever to shift the party left, but after Trump won Jimmy's line has always been, "It's not our fault!" He said Trump would put the ugly face on bad policies, but every time Trump has a bad policy Jimmy shifts the blame to Hillary. And even when progressives do have major victories, he jumps on the first opportunity to shit on them and call their efforts a failure.

Is it any wonder why Bernie Sanders won't do Jimmy's show?

Jimmy Dore is what Candice Owens aspires to be.

[Rob]

felt that the democratic ticket was the better option,

What about it specifically?

[BryanM]

Jimmy Dore, Sam Seder

You seem really fond of these single POV Rush Limbaugh "preacher man" shows. They're not very good for a healthy perspective - they're the epitome of "echo chamber". A voice of one.

A moralist telling you there's no hope except maybe a third party based on a couple personalities (they'll be as fleeting as the bull moose party was, and probably far less successful), or a guy telling you that it's great that you've abandoned moralism (despite the fact electoral politics have already lost any chance of positive impact once you're reduced to that point. Like screaming in an empty room at all the people uninspired by "let's make one fewer new concentration camps!")...

I'd recommend the various shows with actual discussion panels or actual discussions if you're hungry for an opinionated human element in your quest to kill time. The Zero Hour is a new player in this field, and it always has a nice bit of insight and sanity in this hysterical click-farm world.

Though I guess it doesn't matter in the long run. The dark but certain future comes regardless of any individual action we may take. If you like twenty minutes of hate videos, more power to you. Just.... try to remember that there's more than one note on the piano out there. You'll miss out on many symphonies if you constrict your world to one voice just because it's so soothing to you personally.

Also remember to watch out for that water that makes the frogs turn gay.

[Rob]

When Bryan knocks on the door of your echo chamber and suggests that you might be spending too much time in there. Good luck recovering from this one, MM.

[Domino]

At the rate things are going and how actually fucking stupid people have proven themselves to be time and again, I'm at the point of not caring anymore. California wants to be taxed without representation, wants chickens to have better lives before they're slaughtered, and wants to spend billions on subsidizing homelessness and mental illness. Meanwhile, they voted against funding water infrastructure after a third of the state almost went underwater, told dialysis patients to go fuck themselves, and cucked for foreign investors by voting against localized rent control. I couldn't help but notice while researching these propositions that everything I was against was funded in large part by Zuckerberg, and everything I voted for was vehemently opposed by the usual suspects.

Dunno... you're probably wrong about all of it, but off the top of my head: rent control works real well... just look at NYC ( ) and why would you not want things you eat (eg put in you body) to have somewhat sanitary (even human) conditions before eating them? I guess we're used to seeing such erroneous summations in this thread though.

As a former New Yorker who came from Brooklyn (and used to live in a Rent Control housing projects with his family), Rent Control does not work well. The only exception is for those who are elderly and the disable (because where else they can go). Rent control in NYC has some serious problems:

It punishes the poor. If the poor was able to get a job that makes them more money, then their income would be above the threshold to get them kicked out of a rent control apartment. This would make them most of them not able to afford the full rent prices of the NYC area unless they get lucky with friends of family and can stay with them. With Amazon moving into Queens (and all the yuppies who can't afford to live in Manhattan), the five boroughs are going to get even more crazy on rent prices. I used to know people who didn't want to improve their income because they would use lose their Rent Controlled apartment. Can't blame them with how crazy the prices are in NYC.

Rent Control Apartments are breeding grounds for crime. It's a stereotype for a reason, but these apartments do breed crime. I remember back at my old housing projects years ago we were getting crack dealers coming into our apartment building and selling their wares. I remember people getting shot. And Jesus Christ here's a recent of someone getting shot at my old housing projects I used to live! https://pix11.com/2018/11/03/man-fatall ... apartment/ Some things don't change.

NYC Housing Authority does a shitty job of maintaining the properties. You go to the majority of housing projects in NYC, and a lot of them are poorly maintained. For example, my old housing complex did not have working elevators, people pee and shit in those elevators. Also the paint keep peeling off, the lawn has crap on them, and the list goes on. It makes you feel like you are a second class citizen by the city.

Good luck getting a spot in one of these apartments. Because supply and demand!!!

[quash]

https://twitter.com/spekulation/status/ ... 93282?s=19

"You will not replace us" has taken on an entirely new, and totally woke, meaning.

[EmperorIng]

The problem I have with the thread is that I understand everyone's individual thought processes and how they arrive at their conclusions (even Zen ), but most of everyone just jumps over one another. Makes me wonder if your brain is too hard-wired one way can you understand the 'opposite'?

It's for the best I stopped arguing in the thread since all I did was make an ass of myself and piss off Ed for no good reason. Sorry Ed! I can at least credit the thread with shaking me out of my free-market cringe phase, so I got that out of it.

"You will not replace us" has taken on an entirely new, and totally woke, meaning.

Very glad Chicago didn't suck on Bezos' balls hard enough to get Amazon there. Our suction was mercifully low.

[Domino]

https://twitter.com/spekulation/status/ ... 93282?s=19

"You will not replace us" has taken on an entirely new, and totally woke, meaning.

Just watch. Once Amazon invades Queens, that's going to push more people to go East on Long Island, move north into Upstate or CT (god why state has no monies), get shot in Jersery City, or leave that whole area.

[quash]

https://twitter.com/brfreed/status/1062 ... 69318?s=19

It only gets better, too.

[Mischief Maker]

Okay BryanM,

I'm prickly about Jimmy Dore, especially on this forum, because a lot of left-inclined people in '16, who were too smart to fall for something like #walkaway yet constantly repeated Dore-isms, ended up saying things like this:

Since I live in MD, which is obviously going to go to Hillary, I had decided I'd vote Jill Stein/Green Party, so that I could add my vote to the 5% needed so that our oligarchy would recognize the Greens as a major party for 2020.

But then, on my way to the voting place, everywhere I looked were illegal immigrants, either working for some white/black contractor or cutting me off as I drove.
I was also reminded of how many pansy neoliberal fuckers at work that I knew, had voted against Bernie and were Hillbot POS. Those fuckers.
I still hadn't made up my mind, but when I got to the voting booth, everything became clear.
Long story short, VOTED TRUMP. The total Fuck You Vote, felt good for a change instead of feeling once again, like progressive road kill.
Fuck Democrats up the ass. #foreverBernie

szycag was repeating some Jimmy Dore-isms and I wanted to warn them to stay out of Jimmy Dore's echo chamber because as talented as Jimmy is at drawing out emotion, he's either a dangerously sloppy researcher or he's pulling a Dave Rubin and you shouldn't trust his political reporting.

As for the echo chamber you accuse me of being in, I posted a Sam Seder clip about Jimmy Dore entertaining the Seth Rich conspiracy, I posted a Benjamin Dixon/Anoa Changa/Wendi Muse clip about Jimmy Dore talking about making a media alliance with Weird Mike Cernovich, and I posted a Michael Brooks/Brian Mier clip about Jimmy Embracing Brazilian fascists. I get my news from all over the place. Why are you so laser-focused on Sam Seder?

First of all, my problem with Jimmy Dore is issue-based. I gave three concrete examples of outrageously bad/anti-left journalism from Jimmy. Has Sam Seder taken a stance on an issue that you disagree with, or done some sloppy journalism, and that's why you don't like him? Or do you just think he's a dick?

Second, clearly you haven't watched The Majority Report if you think it's a single-man preaching show ala. Secular Talk. One third of every show is an open panel discussion of headlines between Sam, a social democrat, Michael, a marxist, Jaime, an anarcho-communist, and Matt, who's cagey about his own philosophy. One third of every show is a scheduled interview, (with people like RJ Eskow of The Zero Hour). And one third is completely unscreened phonecalls from the general public. Single-dude POV it is not.

And look, sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet and maybe I take you seriously more often than I should sometimes, but this political black pill you keep offering is itself the product of an echo chamber. (Chapo Trap house? They were pretty damn black pill this week) Nancy Pelosi sucks, but you shouldn't delude yourself into thinking every house democrat is a clone of her. My representative is Mark Pocan who is doing all the right things and is taking principled stands and is literally following in the footsteps of Bernie Sanders and if you aren't hearing about all the great stuff he and other members of the Democratic Progressive Caucus do, perhaps you need to peek outside your own echo chamber.

Not only is the black pill politically useless, it leaves you feeling like shit. I'll run with naive hopefulness married to strategic politics instead of childish petulance or black pill despair, thank you very much!

[Specineff]

felt that the democratic ticket was the better option,

What about it specifically?

I'm tempted to answer, but I get the feeling you're just looking for another reason to deride foreigners like me, based on my reply. I can tell you, however, that having a check on the president was a very strong reason to give the democrats their vote.

[GaijinPunch]

"You will not replace us" has taken on an entirely new, and totally woke, meaning.

Very glad Chicago didn't suck on Bezos' balls hard enough to get Amazon there. Our suction was mercifully low.

They offered them The Thompson Center (specifically the ground it's on) for the sum of $0 USD.

In a few ways, Chicago is better than any of the other places on offer: public transit, while not as robust as NYC, is good enough and not nearly as crowded. Urban and suburban housing prices are quite affordable. Plenty of space to grow.

The cons are the tech talent pool, and for fucks' sake all the issues w/ the states budget. I don't think we were ever in the running for a second b/c of the latter.

[Domino]

"You will not replace us" has taken on an entirely new, and totally woke, meaning.

Very glad Chicago didn't suck on Bezos' balls hard enough to get Amazon there. Our suction was mercifully low.

They offered them The Thompson Center (specifically the ground it's on) for sum of $0 USD.

In a few ways, Chicago is better than any of the other places on offer: public transit, while not as robust as NYC, is good enough and not nearly as crowded. Urban and suburban housing prices are quite affordable. Plenty of space to grow.

The cons are the tech talent pool, and for fucks' sake all the issues w/ the states budget. I don't think we were ever in the running for a second b/c of the latter.

Add another negative to Chicago: It's infamous for crime.

At least where I'm at in Florida, when you say the word Chicago, almost 4 in 5 people will say crime as their first comment. We know Chicago is more than that, but people start to say negative comments with regards to the word Chicago Even my brother who moved to Chicago got carjacked more than one near his office. Hell, I know plenty of people who came from Chicago and they all say crime is the biggest negative.

[GaijinPunch]

Add another negative to Chicago: It's infamous for crime.

Non-starter. It's definitely not the worst place in the cuntry... or HQ2 top 20 (Atlanta and your state's very own Miami top it in violent crime). Anyone bringing a business here knows if it's in The Loop or the North Side where it's white and safe, those numbers dramatically fall. I know I'll probably get shot after pointing that out, but this place is like North & South Korea (which actually points to much larger problems beyond the scope of this thread thankfully).

At least where I'm at in Florida, when you say the word Chicago, almost 4 in 5 people will say crime as their first comment.

There's a laundry list of things that people think of when they mention Florida.... yet I'm sure Amazon would have been just fine looking past all of that if it meant dough. I get what you're saying - it's the image, not the actual numbers that matter, but if that were the case Chicago would not have a number of financial institutions per capita comparable to Manhattan.