From Software 'n such

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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BareKnuckleRoo
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

evil_ash_xero wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2024 2:50 amYou just got to try it?! Oh man, this is peak stuff. If you like it, make sure to try out the Old Hunters content. It really improves some things.
My friend's PS4 has the DLC installed so I'll get to play it.

Trying to melee the Cleric Beast is owning me rather hard, the hitboxes on the slams I just don't understand yet. Finding what attacks are safe to punish as always seems to take me a bit of time.

Oil followed by Molotovs though does a hilarious amount of damage so I just used that for now.

One thing I notice is the game takes a while to offer up new weaponry to the player, compared to other games where you have a shopkeeper show up early on. It makes the initial loadout choice more locked in, and you have to wait a while before you can mix it up.
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Sima Tuna
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sima Tuna »

You know about playing unlocked, right? If you struggle with a boss, sometimes unlocking the camera is all it takes.

I don't know which gun you took at start, but I usually prefer the pistol because of faster parry speed and the ability to harass or stun certain bosses more easily. Fire does a ridiculous amount of damage on most early bosses.
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BareKnuckleRoo
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

It's not so much locked vs unlocked that's causing me trouble (I'm well versed in that doing a melee only SL1 run of DS1 where several bosses benefit from unlocking to properly hit their legs, god help you if you try a halberd on the centipede demon or something haha), and more that without a shield, it's harder to learn the timing and hitbox size of attacks. In a souls game with a shield, you can turtle a bit until you figure out where it's safe to dodge and punish, learning the attacks better, but in Bloodborne if you don't dodge, you eat severe damage. And you have to then farm health items. It's not too bad; they're fairly plentiful, and I found Sekiro more obnoxious actually because you can burn through your spirit emblems / ammo for your tools and special moves real quick if you're not careful, and the cost increases as you proceed through the game.

Apparently there's some much more ammo hungry weapons in BB later on that might make me feel the same way, heh, but the weapon variety in Bloodborne probably will make up for that.

Took the Blunderbuss. Might've been a bit of a blunder, hahaha, I suspect I'd prefer the more concentrated damage and range of the pistol because I see after taking a shot you can run in and then punish on the visceral.
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evil_ash_xero
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by evil_ash_xero »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2024 1:56 pm
evil_ash_xero wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2024 2:50 amYou just got to try it?! Oh man, this is peak stuff. If you like it, make sure to try out the Old Hunters content. It really improves some things.
My friend's PS4 has the DLC installed so I'll get to play it.

Trying to melee the Cleric Beast is owning me rather hard, the hitboxes on the slams I just don't understand yet. Finding what attacks are safe to punish as always seems to take me a bit of time.

Oil followed by Molotovs though does a hilarious amount of damage so I just used that for now.

One thing I notice is the game takes a while to offer up new weaponry to the player, compared to other games where you have a shopkeeper show up early on. It makes the initial loadout choice more locked in, and you have to wait a while before you can mix it up.
Hopefully it will click for you. I read earlier you are using the cane? I would go for the cleaver and axe combo, since this is your first time. You'll get a better weapon later.
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Austin
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Austin »

Hell, the cleaver and axe are so good I typically just take them to the end of the game. Spin to Win™!

And guns.. it's all for parrying, that's their purpose. It's pretty important in this game. You can do a bit of "chip damage" with them which can come in handy when a foe has stepped away with minimal health left, but it's mostly about learning to parry.
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BareKnuckleRoo
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Yeah, the Hunter's Axe is my current fave of the starters. I wanted to use something that wasn't a longsword moveset but with an offhand gun and I used polearms extensively in some of my DS1 playthroughs, so the Threaded Cane seemed like an interesting change of pace. Unfortunately... the low range on the short sword moveset is eh, and the whip itself, while vastly improved over DS1 whips, has a moveset that tends to bounce off walls. The backstep attacks are nicely ranged though. It's also too slow to properly stunlock enemies in the whip form like werewolves until your stamina runs out, they can hit you in between attacks.

The lack of a gun offhand scared me off initially from Hunter's Axe because I wasn't sure how critical guns were, but I have a feel for things and can just swap to the onehanded form if I need to shoot anything.
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BIL
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KOKUJU-KEN or BLACK BEAST FIST (`w´メ)

Post by BIL »

Cleaver's a true weapon for all seasons. Will serve mightily throughout the base and DLC! Rub some Fire Paper on it, Beast-type bosses get cauterised promptly. However, you can arguably do just as well with the Saw Spear, which handles similarly, and can be found very early on, albeit mildly hidden in plain sight.
Saw Spear general location
>From Central Yharnam lamp: go past the gigantic beast bonfire in Central, to the open plaza area with the Brick Troll banging on the double doors, and the large house with the cackling women.

>Bust through the crates to the left of their door, to find a gap in the fence and a shitton of dogs in cages. Head right, and jog straight on, past Granny's house, and down the stairs into the warehouse, which contains the Saw Spear.
Specific
>Saw Spear in on a hanging corpse, high up in the rafters. You can either shoot it down, or go back upstairs, and smash the crates stacked up against the wall. There's a broken window that'll let you out onto the rafters, where you can easily chop the corpse down.
Did several loops with the Cleaver, then tried Axe on a whim, and felt like I'd been denying meself. :O Has a ton going for it. The spinneh-mah-winneh is grand, and its Trick stance's L2 has a nice wide sweep; perfect for catching enemies at oblique angles. The Straight charge shot will pancake mansized foes reliably, and can even chain-pancake with high enough player stats. And the Transforming attack is a great combo extender. R1-R1-R1-Transform-L2 lets you deal heavy damage before finishing with a distancing stab, and a big sweep that'll catch interferers.

The dodge roll recoveries are fuckin hawt too. Straight does a nice bonk, but Trick will eat the whole mahfuckin room:

Image

Four deads are better than one! Perfect for reckless actions. Image Image Image (early game, no spoilers)

The only real tradeoff is that its sweep attacks are easily parryable, on account of all the attack frames. But it's much less of an issue in PvE. Play more conservatively when the enemy has a gun, basically.

I'd say Cleaver is the better absolute beginner weapon, while Axe is good once you've got a feel for the Transform mechanic. I've never used the Cane, but then, I've never used a solid 75% of the other weapons. EDIT: Never mastered them, I should say. I'm a one ship/character/weapon kinda dude, save 'em for a rainy day. :cool:

One of the overall best assets, imo, requires a small Arcane investment, but is well worth it.
Minor item spoiler, no story deets
The Beast Roar. Ostensibly a crowd blowback AOE, but its real strength is targeted knockdowns. It absolutely dominates anything man-sized; even a few very lategame bosses. Will reliably blow them off their feet, leaving them helpless. I actually forced myself to stop using it a few loops in; felt completely naked without it, at first. I like to get into the scrum, so it's a great sidearm to have handy when I inevitably bite off more than I can chew and need a crowd reset. :lol:
Last edited by BIL on Fri Aug 30, 2024 5:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Sima Tuna
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sima Tuna »

Cleaver and Spear are ridiculously op. It's been said before. Spear is even better than Cleaver, because Spear has a stab move you can use for the few eldritch enemies that resist saw attacks in early-midgame. Spear with fire paper will demolish any boss through midgame.

Which is why I'm torn on recommending the cleaver and spear. A souls veteran would probably have more fun with weapons that aren't quite so easymodo. Fast, anti-beast weapons that can take fire and abuse regain... They are the total package. And as I said, saw spear as the stabby to deal damage to enemies who resist anti-beast weapons.

Kirkhammer will always have my heart. I like the simple moveset and combination sword/hammer swagger. The old hunters giant cleaver is pretty dope too.
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BIL
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by BIL »

Sima Tuna wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2024 10:33 pmThe old hunters giant cleaver is pretty dope too.
Perfect Pyramid Head cosplay weapon. Image Image
BETRAYAL.wav
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I was gonna say most of my favourite weapons are DLC, but having thought about it, it's a specific couple I added to my small repertoire.
Death By Illegal Slapshot
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Tons of cool stuff in that neck of the woods though, atop an already-spectacular toybox. Otherwise, all about House of Cain baybee. Image
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BEAMLORD
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by BEAMLORD »

This is my saw-cleaver. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My saw-cleaver is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.


I love the saw-cleaver. Granted, I've only got a loop and a half of Bloodborne under my belt, but apart from maybe one or two short instances, I've felt no inclination to change it out yet. That switch-blade action, with damage stacking with each flick of the wrist, is too good to give up.
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BIL
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Caught w/me hand wrapped around an ENORMOUS CHOPPER (◎w◎;)

Post by BIL »

Killer audiovisual design, too; the guttural *KRRCKSHH* and shower of sparks, as the locking nut unleashes poise-shredding justice on rude motherfuckers. Image

Image

Now that's a big beautiful chopper :shock:
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To Far Away Times
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by To Far Away Times »

Some interesting things have been happening in the PS4 emulation community.

Bloodborne PS4 emulation has been making rapid progress.

It’s not perfect, but a month ago this game didn’t even boot and it runs way better than I would have expected.
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To Far Away Times
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by To Far Away Times »

It looks like you won't need a crazy powerful machine to play Bloodborne emulated. Here's Bloodborne running on a Steam Deck.

At the rate this emulator is making progress this should probably be 100% by the end of the year.
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BIL
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by BIL »

Sugoi ;w;

What a ridiculous situation though. Every time I go to JPSN for my latest Ham-chans, I gotta set it from "Most Sales" to "Latest." Bloodborne's always up top with Elden Ring, a bit ahead of all three Dark Souls too IIRC.

Maybe they're saving it for PS6. >_>

Ah well. Sometimes it really does come down to the fans. A lot of the time tbh. Godspeed!
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Hey look, a PS1 memory card!

Post by Lander »

That inspirational backing track too, greyhat hackers are doing the Elder God's work (T~T)7

It's weird watching Astro Bot footage and seeing BB placed next to so many noted (dead) series.
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Lemnear
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Lemnear »

BareKnuckleRoo wrote: Thu Aug 29, 2024 1:56 pm
evil_ash_xero wrote: Wed Aug 28, 2024 2:50 amYou just got to try it?! Oh man, this is peak stuff. If you like it, make sure to try out the Old Hunters content. It really improves some things.
My friend's PS4 has the DLC installed so I'll get to play it.

Trying to melee the Cleric Beast is owning me rather hard, the hitboxes on the slams I just don't understand yet. Finding what attacks are safe to punish as always seems to take me a bit of time.

Oil followed by Molotovs though does a hilarious amount of damage so I just used that for now.

One thing I notice is the game takes a while to offer up new weaponry to the player, compared to other games where you have a shopkeeper show up early on. It makes the initial loadout choice more locked in, and you have to wait a while before you can mix it up.
BloodBorne works a bit differently. The weapons are less in general and all dual-use, and there are no duplicates movesets.
Also the materials for the upgrades are not many, so think carefully about which weapon you want to upgrade to +10.
It's a bit more of a "I'm a hunter and this is my weapon" series rather than Dark Souls where you are a knight with a huge arsenal.
The best thing about BloodBorne is that it has some unique weapons, not even in ER or SotE there are things like that... like the Logarius' Wheel, Reiterpallasch (OMG i love it), Stake Driver (super-cool) or Kos Parasite.
Don't look up what they are on the internet, just the names should make you curious :lol:
Only, it's unlikely that you'll be able to have more than ONE maxed offensive stat in a single run, so it's unlikely that you'll be able to use multiple different weapons in a single run (unless you want to farm a bit).
There are a couple of firearms that do serious damage if they have their offensive stat maxed out anyway (and the weapon is upgraded).
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To Far Away Times
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by To Far Away Times »

Ludwig's Holy Blade all day every day. And wait, there were guns in this game?
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Stevens
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Stevens »

Sekiro - Resurrection mod

Turns the base game into a version that might as well be an update from From.

NEW
Mini Bosses
Enemy placements
Upgraded move sets for existing mini bosses/bosses

Recoil Counter - Probably my favorite thing they added. Mini/Bosses have new moves where their weapon shines briefly before they attack. Perfect parry it and you can instantly counter (PING) with an attack, prosthetic, or art. If you reflect projectiles mid air you can grapple your way to the bosses face.

If you love Sekiro (you should) and want more this is what you're looking for.
Last edited by Stevens on Sun Sep 22, 2024 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
You're sure to be in a fine haze about now, but don't think too hard about all of this. Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good. You know, it's just what hunters do! You'll get used to it.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

To Far Away Times wrote: Wed Sep 11, 2024 5:27 pm Ludwig's Holy Blade all day every day. And wait, there were guns in this game?
ah yes, the " i'd just rather be playing dark souls "
weapon
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Lemnear
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Lemnear »

Blinge wrote: Fri Sep 20, 2024 8:53 pm
To Far Away Times wrote: Wed Sep 11, 2024 5:27 pm Ludwig's Holy Blade all day every day. And wait, there were guns in this game?
ah yes, the " i'd just rather be playing dark souls "
weapon
The description of the weapon is: "you come from Boletaria? Lothric? Lordran? Drangleic? Don't worry, if you feel homesick here's a straight sword for you!"
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Blinge
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

Welp. I was going for DS2 no deaths, no bonfires. While running back through the bastille to get my santier's spear converted to raw damage, a jailer hit a barrel which blew up and blew me off a ledge. not in the fun way.

so yeah, my deathless streak was over but i continued no bonnie and finished the game.

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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by guigui »

Blinge wrote: Wed Oct 02, 2024 10:01 pm Welp. I was going for DS2 no deaths, no bonfires.
Sounds like crazy. But can you still level up in DS2 w/o bonfires ?
Bravo jolie Ln, tu as trouvé : l'armée de l'air c'est là où on peut te tenir par la main.
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Blinge
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Blinge »

Yeah the emerald herald waifu levels you up.
you have to homeward bone all the way back to Majula/hub, then trek back if you want to level.

Or killing a lord allows you to light a 'primal bonfire' which only warp you back, one-way ticket.
Those don't count for the challenge.

Essentially you're out on expedition and can't level up until you get back.
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by guigui »

Sounds nice this way.
No bonfire in DS1 or 3 looks harder though because it also means no level up. Anyone tried it yet ?
Bravo jolie Ln, tu as trouvé : l'armée de l'air c'est là où on peut te tenir par la main.
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BareKnuckleRoo
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

I've done an SL1 melee only run (fun challenge!). It'd be similar to that, no magic available because you can't use the Attune Magic menu, but it'd still be pretty doable as long as you were familiar with the bosses because you'd be able to use crossbows or a bow on some of the bosses that are much easier to hit with ranged attack:
Spoiler
The main frustration in a no bonfire run, aside from obviously not being able to level up or use magic, is having to run from Firelink Shrine any time you get killed. Running down to Lost Izalith or up to the Duke's Archives is a huge hike and not one you want to repeat. I'd argue those are the worst to do in such a challenge. The final boss and most other areas by comparison are a short walk from Firelink Shrine.

The DLC is also a fair hike, especially the first time getting to Manus, but there's multiple shortcuts that allow you to bypass tons of enemies on the return trips, so it's not super dangerous once you've opened them so much as it is a lengthy walk. Izalith on the other hand is fairly dangerous even with the shortcut opened as that Titanite Demon will murder the hell out of even high level characters, let alone one that hasn't levelled, and the other way's an even longer walk.

Since you can't level up at all, I'd pick a class that has at least 12 Strength for the use of the Balder Shield, an insanely good shield when at +15 that has enough stability with the FAP ring to reliably deflect a hit even from Manus or Knight Artorius.

You can use and upgrade any weapons, but the DLC bosses, particularly Knight Artorius who has a close range counterattack move and Kalameet who's hard to hit, benefit a lot from having a strong crossbow or bow. Crossbows work much faster one-handed, and at 14 Strength, the Bandit can use the Heavy Crossbow one-handed which is as fast as the Light Crossbow with a significant bump in damage. You won't be able to effectively use traditional bows as a Bandit though, so if you want to use a Compound Bow (the best bow for boss fights due to speed) you'll need to go with Warrior or Hunter. Both have enough Strength for Balder Shield, Crest Shield, Dragon Crest Shield which covers most situations. Hunter has 1 less point of Str but gains 1 Dex, so can just barely use a Long Bow for sniping if you want.

Wanderer and Thief don't have the Strength stat to use the Balder Shield and have worse Vitality, and Knight has good starting Vitality but awful stats otherwise and has poor choice of weapons.

Bandit's gonna be ideal because 12 Vit, 14 End and 14 Str is just too good of a combo for this challenge. Grab Dark Wood Grain Ring and FAP ring (or Cloranthy Ring), and then melee or shoot down bosses as needed. Dragon Covenant gets you a cool looking head and firebreathing which works surprisingly well on many enemies and gives you a ranged attack without spending souls on bolts, can quickly take down things like the Moonlight Butterfly while it's floating. A basic shield works fine until Sen's Fortress, no need to farm for a Balder Shield though definitely buy one before leaving Sen's. From there, play it safe to avoid having a long walk back from attempting bosses. Dodge and roll from bosses, use the shield to block stray hits if your timing sucks, shoot bosses from a safe distance or melee if you think you can do it safely.

A +10 or so Balder Shield is plenty for O&S. I don't like murdering Ingward early on for +15 upgrades because he's a nice dude, one of the few NPCs that will survive to the end unless you stab him in the back. You do you, though.
edit: I tried doing a No Bonfire run and combined it with a No Spending Souls or Humanity run. Basically, you're stuck using what you find without upgrades, magic is unavailable due to not having access to attunement, and estus is only refillable with suiciding, which I wasn't deliberately doing. I gave up on it for the moment for two reasons:
Spoiler
1) To respawn enemies in a No Bonfire run you have to run quite far. I was farming Humanity for healing in the Depths and I had to run to Blighttown to the ledge where you jump off for the Iaito to respawn everything in the Depths. Worse, farming for Dragon Scales (dragon form punches are infinite durability and 400 AR, good deal) is worse, you have to go up the elevator and run to where Havel is (or up the mountain to where Andre is) to respawn them. The wyverns already suck to farm due to their tendency to push you as they turn if you melee them, this made it way worse.

2) I started with Bandit for the extra Vit and End. In a standard no levelling run this would be fine, you can make good use of the starting battle axe or a reinforced club and upgrade it, but here having 9 Dex instead of 13 or 14 denies you a whole bunch of useful weapons. No shortswords, longswords, no using the halberds two-handed, etc. Can't use the Crystal Halberd in Anor Londo for instance, can't use the Enchanted Falchion. 14 Str does not get you anything particularly special that's not already had at 12 Str, meaning Warrior and Hunter are honestly much better for a No Souls Spent run. The lack of bleed weapons also sucked, a Bandit's Knife woulda been handy for the Wyverns but I had to use a Ghost Blade instead, the only useful bleed weapon a Bandit gets at base stats (the Morning Star is too slow to be useful).
No Bonfire run really doesn't seem particularly bad in DS1. You have to have Homeward Bones to escape a few of the boss arenas, but Ring of the Evil Eye solves a lot of the healing issues and farming for Humanity even without a Bonfire to respawn rats goes fairly quick at max Item Discovery. With a full set of upgraded armor and 50+ soft Humanity you can be quite durable, even at base stats.

Doing a No Souls Spent run seems worse because upgrades are absolutely critical for DPS and many of the weapons in the game suck at base stats, especially if you're also stuck at a class's base level. There's a few weapons you can find that work decently such as the Lightning Spear, Occult Club and so on, but they're still much better when upgraded, and you have no way to repair them if they do break. I had no issues with durability when I tried it though, I imagine you'd only have to worry about overuse of the Crystal Halberd, or if you got hit by corrosion attacks (the bite the clams use, Gaping Dragon's acid).
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BareKnuckleRoo
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No Spent Souls/Humanity, No Bonfires/Estus

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

guigui wrote: Fri Oct 04, 2024 1:03 pmNo bonfire in DS1 or 3 looks harder though because it also means no level up. Anyone tried it yet?
I blame you for this. :D

I took another stab at a No Souls/Soft Humanity spent, No Bonfires or Estus Used run, this time as a Hunter. They're runs I wanted to do at some point and I figured why not check off those boxes by trying to do them all at once? This means:

• No levelling up, attuning magic, drinking estus, and so on.

• No buying anything from merchants, no trading Humanity to open the Lost Izalith shortcut, no way to repair items ever. The lack of repairs is not a major practical issue as items last a very long time before ever becoming at risk of breaking so long as you avoid corrosion attacks (Gaping Dragon's acid, the bite attacks from clams). Covenant rewards you get simply from joining such as the Dragon Head Stone and being able to get the Dark Wood Grain Ring by very briefly joining the forest covenant are allowed as you don't have to spend anything to get these. I also won't upgrade the Dragon Covenant at all with dragon scales (which are too obnoxious to farm with melee anyways).

• Healing is only possible with Humanity items which are rather slow compared to Estus. There's also the Evil Eye Ring which helps for minor injuries, and the limited use Divine Blessings and Elizabeth's Mushrooms. You can also heal by using a Homeward Bone, but those are limited in use and I need a few to escape boss areas and I'm trying to avoid using the Dark Sign as it loses all my Humanity.

Hunter has 14 Dex and 12 Str to start, letting you use a huge variety of weapons. Started with the Master Key for convenience, ran down to Ash Lake to get the dragon head so I could look cool and burn people to death by yelling at them. Cloranthy ring is also one of my faves and grabbing that early's always nice. Unfortunately going here early does require spending some humanity to deal with poison and fall damage, but that's fine.

Roasted the zombie dragon for the Astora Straight Sword (useful in the catacombs much later) and the Dragon Crest Shield, then back to the Undead burg, grabbed the Uchigatana, realized it cost way too much stamina to be useful, burped fireballs at the Taurus Demon and Solaire (thanks for the Humanity), forgot to go the reverse direction to open the gate where the bridge drake is, but screw it, I'll never need that shortcut anyways. Rescued Lautrec, killed the Gargoyles, kicked Lautrec off the ledge, equipped FAP, killed everyone else around Firelink, pissed off Andre and ran like hell past the Titanite Demon. Andre gets a bit dumb if you run into the forest at which point you can more or less safely breathe fire on him or lure the Titanite Demon into hitting him. Ran to the forest covenant, got some gold pine resins from the shrooms, kicked samurai dude and ninja boy off the ledge, ran far enough to reset the area and got the flippy ninja ring. Also grabbed the Wolf Ring for the poise boost.

Back down to Blighttown, got the Shadow Set for the poison/bleed/low weight, then proceeded to fight Quelaag. She's a nuisance with unupgraded weapons and has tons of resistance, immune to fire, etc. However, a dual wielded halberd or a long sword buffed with Gold Pine Resin hits respectably hard, and after like 6 resins I got the win carving her up. Beat up the fair lady for her soul (sorry) and then dealt with Ceaseless Discharge.

I was a bit low on Humanity items to heal at this point so it was time to open up the way to the Depths so I could farm them. First thing was to go to Sen's for the Gold Serpent Ring to boost drop rates. Dragon face, yelled at serpents to roast them, takes a number of shots but eventually works and two-handing a shield really reduces the stamina damage from blocking hits. Opened the shortcut, rescued Logan then pelted him in the cage with Dung Pies to murder him. :3 Got the Lightning Spear, I tried to avoid using it for fear of durability issues. Was using the FAP ring + Cloranthy mostly.

Ran down to where the Capra Demon was, murdered mage boy along the way, opened up the shortcut, couldn't quite murder ms shopkeeper in one hit with a lightning buffed halberd so she proceeded to yell at me for the rest of the game. Capra Demon took a couple tries, lightning spear was too narrow to hit things, so used a wider hitting longsword buffed with resin to fry the doggos for the win.

Into the depths, killed a bunch of butchers, killed some random pyromancer in a barrel, found a giant rat and screamed at it and hurt its feelings until it spontaneously combusted, then slid down the waterfall to open the shortcut. At 30+ humanity you're basically curse immune, making the Ring of the Evil Eye easy enough to get and giving me a handy, albeit slow source of healing up minor scrapes. Humanity farming here requires killing the Gaping Dragon though, so once I killed the sorcerer and his rat friends (along with the shopkeep~), I puffed fire at the dragon to kill it and proceeded to farm.

To farm Humanity in a no Estus/no Bonfire run, this is the best spot for most of the game. The route is to kill the rats around the Blightown gate, run up the passage and kill all the rats in the upper areas, then run to Blighttown. You have to run to the ledge where you jump to get the Iaito to respawn all the Blighttown enemies, so once there, run all the way back and kill all the rats again. I did this for a while until I had 30 Humanity stocked up. With 10 soft Humanity and the Gold Snek Ring equipped it's about 6 Humanity per run if you're lucky.

Back to Sen's with the Lightning Spear, took on the golem, turned out I'd never really used the Dragon Head Stone much at this point in the game and it still was quite handy, hitting him at a safe distance while backstepping. Was easier to use than the Lightning Spear too, and eventually roasted him. Anor Londo was an exceptional nuisance; if you don't find the shortcut in Sen's fortress you'd think a no bonfire run here is awful as you'd have to do all of Sen's each time. Getting across the walkway with the archers without poison arrows is a pain as always, but eventually I got in and looted the place, opening all the shortcuts in the process. I murdered the giant blacksmith and realized I forgot completely about what he had: the best freakin hammer I could ever ask for. Even un-upgraded, it hits like a freight train, though I have to be careful what I equip to be able to dual-wield it and still fast roll. Orstein & Smough took several tries; I kept getting stabbed by spear boy while trying to breathe fire or smack the fat dude. Eventually I got the kill on Smough by being fairly aggressive about trying to hit him. Big Ornstein is easy by comparison as he's slow and nicely telegraphs everything, so it was an easy matter to toss Dung Pies at him for toxic, then carefully fire breath and hammer him down as opportunities arose. I think I beat him without taking any damage.

Sif (sorry pupper ;w;) went down on first try to getting bonked with the electric hammer. I then decided I wasn't going to be finding anything better at this point so tried 4 Kings, the hardest boss in the game. I'd get a feel for if my DPS was high enough to poise tank with Havel's Set as usual or if I'd need to adjust my plans. As expected, the gimmickiest of bosses was obnoxious as all hell, and without Power Within my DPS sucked. My DPS also sucked because I had to heal with slow Humanities, and he decided to do two grabs followed by his close range blast, all of which are a pain to avoid with full Havel's and considerably eat into my DPS. I tried using the Crystal Halberd + Gold Pine Resin from Anor Londo, but needing to buff repeatedly combined with the slightly weird hitbox was not working well. I was desperately low on healing, but Humanity was so slow that effectively I couldn't heal in the fight as I'd just get hit again. And that was assuming he didn't open the fight with magic, which forced me to block as it'd otherwise chase me forever and hit me on a second pass if I dodged. 4 Kings sucked. My damage sucked. Not being able to upgrade weapons sucked, even with such a fairly powerful weapon. I tried ditching the FAP ring and experimented with Cloranthy for the stamina and thus damage buff, or the DWGR for the better dodges, but I was still struggling to dodge and maintain DPS to avoid being overrun!

Then I remembered something I never use: the Red Tearstone Ring. Normally, the damage boost isn't worth being a 1 hit kill. You have such little health at the trigger threshold it's usually more trouble than it's worth, but in this case I couldn't reliably heal AND I needed as much DPS, so its disadvantage was essentially a non issue. Tried it on 4 Kings, took a few attempts to learn their attacks, but holy hell my attacks hit so hard. It was like 350 for normals, 510 for heavy attacks. The main problem, aside from them using magic, was their melee attack where they do these wide horizontal swings with extended hitboxes. You have to dodge left and then right, but the timing's much more strict than their forward stab or diagonal slashes. Eventually though, I had a run where, for the first time ever, I beat them without poise tanking, and without taking any damage from them, hammering away. My DPS was so good the third king didn't spawn in by the time the second one died. It was crazy.

I just have 3 Lord bosses left, Priscilla, and the DLC. My plan is to do the BOC and Catacombs to get them out of the way (BOC first for the Sunlight Maggot as I hate going without a light source), then do the DLC, followed by Priscilla and Seath. I don't remember how Homeward Bones work after you deal with Seath's prison or with the DLC (I may need to use a bonfire to warp out from the DLC), but if I lose Firelink Shrine as a warp point, it'd be best that it's right before I need to kill Gwyn, instead of being stuck with the prison as a warp point and running from there to BOC or Nito each attempt!
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guigui
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by guigui »

Gosh you're crazy.

Long time since I did not play DS1, but reading your story of doing it with no bonfire no estus is a real joy to my heart, reminds me why I (and everybody) like this game so much.
Glad someone finally found a real use for the Giant Blacksmith hammer, I always thought it looked hype, but appeared too late in the game when I already had better weapons.

I also thought that O&S would be the worst boss, but they do appear to be a cakewalk to pro players like you, who are just trained to beat them no matter what restriction you lock yourself in. I now see why 4 kings woulb indeed be the hardest, and the solution is always the same with them : tank and DPS as much as you can.

Please let us know how the end goes (not sure if there are a lot of real difficulties left, maybe Nito ?) ; and if you want we can always give you new ideas for future handicap runs ;)
Bravo jolie Ln, tu as trouvé : l'armée de l'air c'est là où on peut te tenir par la main.
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BareKnuckleRoo
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

I am a bit obsessed with the game. It's part of the reason I waited a while to try Dark Souls, I knew it was a game chock full of stuff to do so if I got into it I'd REALLY get into it...

O&S isn't the worst boss I think, it's just a mild nuisance if you're trying to get past phase 1 and Ornstein keeps interrupting you while you're getting hits in on Smough. Normally, it's a test of whether you've upgraded your gear and Vitality stat. If so, you can easily trade some hits, heal up, then keep going. Even in an SL1 run, with upgraded armor you're pretty resilient and won't get oneshotted. But here it's nastier, since no Estus meant healing was always much slower and riskier to do.

First things first, got the Dark Hand from the Darkwraith covenant, then punched the serpent until he went away. :3 Dark Hand gives me a solid, nearly infinite use melee weapon, albeit one with awful range.

Back to Izalith. The Firesage Demon took an embarrassing number of tries, I kept having him jump away then blast me with his magic. An unupgraded Crest Shield at base Stamina is too low to tank the hit, so my only choice was to desperately stay beside him and try not to let him get against a wall. Eventually I was able to bleed him out with the Bandit Knife, a handy weapon as it's very quick and allows me to react if I need to move quickly. Centipede by comparison was very easy, I nailed my dodges, avoided his blasts where he jumps in the air and fires downward, somehow BARELY survived getting grabbed and bitten, and hammered him to bits. The giant blacksmith hammer fries him real good. BoC was annoying this time, several times it instantly did the massive fire storm as soon as it could, and one time the Titanite Demon killed me as I took the shortcut. :/

Once that was over with, I dealt with the demon in the asylum and went to the Catacombs. Blacksmith got punched to death, then warped back out and dropped down to where the paladin summon is and equipped the Wolf Ring to run past all the wheels to Pinwheel. The Wolf Ring gives enough poise to take a hit or two from the bonewheel skeletons and makes dealing with them FAR easier. Punched Pinwheel with the Dark Hand, realized I was a dumbass and had the dragon head on, tried going through Tomb of Giants with the skull lantern as a light source, failed miserably, switched to the Sunlight Maggot, had much better success. Made my way down to Nito's, breathed fire on the bone pillars, ran to Nito.

Nito's tough, but I had a trick up my sleeve. I was scared of losing my soft humanity and needing to slowly farm more in the Depths if I healed a lot then died, so I went in with a Ring of Sacrifice and the Dark Wood Grain Ring for flip dodging. Left hand was Spider Shield, right hand was Astora Straight Sword. Sure, I don't have the faith stat for it, but it just means every hit bounces off an enemy. It still does some damage, and the divine property prevents respawning if you deliver the killing blow with it, so for the 3 small skeletons that rush you I tried to yell at them to set them on fire, then finish them off with the sword to avoid respawns. Worked well for the first one, Nito killed the second one himself denying me. ;w; I eventually killed the remaining two skeletons while taking... a LOT of hits from Nito. I spent like 12 Humanity in the fight healing, with the rest of the fight being me desperately dodging his giant aura attack without aggroing the remaining giant skeletons (as they might one-shot me if they hit). Nito is rather strong against my fire breath so I was using my electric hammer of justice to smack him down. The heavy attack worked quite well on his back.

Went to Anor Londo to get the DLC item, died a few times to the piggies and the hollows. :/ Then I remembered I could trade a lantern for the Ring of Fog which helps you avoid getting too much aggro from the crystal hollows (the archer can't see you unless you go halfway in). Got the pendant, had only like 2 Humanity left, had to farm up to 16, went to do the DLC.

Sanctuary Guardian is tough, your attack windows are really slim, and his horned headbutt could oneshot me. He also has massive lightning resist on par with Gwyn and Ornstein, so I swapped to the Dark Hand which worked decently... but it was still taking a while and I was getting shot at a lot with limited chances to melee him. On a whim, I decided to try the Red Tearstone Ring strategy again, using it and the DWGR for enhanced dodges, and it felt like my punches had tripled in damage, I musta crossed a damage threshold where I was hitting hard enough to punch through his defense. I was able to learn to dodge his stuff and killed him on attempt 7 or 8 punching him down with enhanced hits.

Found a giant mushroom, I was too busy punching it to listen to what it said. Thanks for the healing items. :3

Running through the Royal Wood attracts a lot of the gardeners and stone guardians, and I screwed up the first time forgetting the easy route in the second half (go to the right along the chasm). Second time I remembered there's a 4th Elizabeth's mushroom hiding past a couple jumps... and was too far to the left so I slid off the sloped part on the other side. Oops. Attempt #3 went better, and I remembered to try the Ring of Fog. It works HILARIOUSLY well in the Royal Wood and for some reason all the enemies have drastically reduced detection range, making it by far the easiest way to run through everything if you're too impatient to kill them (though fire breath was roasting them in 2 cycles, nice!).

Knight Artorius fight took a few tries as I experimented with what weapons to use. His moves were still super fresh in my mind from my SL1 melee run (protip: crossbows make him a million times easier than trying to melee him...) so I got him on attempt 3 or 4.

Dark Hand is way too short. It's decently strong but hard to hit him with hit and you're so close he'll often punish you with his spin counter. Giant Blacksmith Hammer is super weak due to low physical stat and Artorius boasting a ton of Fire/Magic/Lightning resist. This was the fight I was saving the Crystal Halberd for and I'm glad I did because holy heck it was the perfect weapon thanks to its long range. You can poke him after he's open without being too close to be counterattacked and it has huge base damage. Even with awful armor and no FaP ring equipped, I could survive some of his weaker hits (just barely). However, Humanity is too slow to heal on him safely except for one move: his charge up aura. I had to quickly damage him enough so he'd start using it, then every time he did was a chance to heal. I played it super safe when he was below 50%, focusing on waiting for an opportunity to heal before being aggressive again. Well, except at the end of the fight; he was taking a long time to use the aura again and he was only a few hits away from death, so instead of risking so many dodges and screwing one up to nerves waiting to heal, I tried to get the hits in needed to finish it.

I wish I had thought to record the 4 Kings fight, I'd never done them without taking damage before. Oh well.

BIG OL' EDIT:

I forgot that two Sanctuary Guardians appear as normal enemies in place of the boss... and every time I tried to progress I'd have to run past them. I had no way of dealing with them safely, can't buy arrows to shoot them down, didn't want to fight both at once, etc. Oh well, I only got shot in the back a few times by them.

Oolacile Township sucks, I suck at getting through it without punched repeatedly. Ring of Fog helped a fair bit to minimize how much aggro I pulled and the distance the sorcerers before the Abyss would start shooting. I could actually dodge right past them then hide behind a pillar in the big open arena. After many mishaps including jumping off the platform above where you drop to the silver pendant, forgetting you need to be lower to make it to the next building, as well as using the Dragon Head Stone on respawn outright forgetting I needed the Sunlight Maggot on to get the pendant, I eventually got the key to Gough's and opened up the shortcuts to the Abyss and thus Manus. Manus himself took a few tries but eventually I got back in the timing of everything and the first fight that got to his spellcasting phase also was the one that killed him. I rocked the timing of countering his spells, was quite pleased.

My equipment was dragon head, naked torso, sealer gloves, shadow legs. Grass Crest on back, Crystal Halberd (at 11 Durability by the end of the fight!), Dark Wood Grain Ring for the dodging, and Ring of Steel Protection (I didn't test too extensively but I seem to recall at low levels it makes some of his hits survivable, he couldn't oneshot me with anything and only ever killed me from managing to hit me twice before healing). I tried Dark Hand which was too hard to hit with due to range (50 damage), the Giant Blacksmith's Hammer which was OK (91 with the heavy). Crystal Halberd was by far the best, at 191 on normal attacks, 153 on dodge attacks. If it broke, I had a good backup in the form of the Lightning Spear from Sen's which was fast enough to hit twice safely for about 100 damage. Manus has a ton of punishable attacks with no risk of being countered including his vertical arm stretch slam, his uppercut, his jumping attack, and his lengthy multi hit combo which can be punished after the second jump. Fighting him lasts a long time, but it's much easier to heal up if you get hit than in the Knight Artorias fight.

I SCREWED UP GUYS, I'M SORRY.

After Manus, I used a homeward bone and then trekked back to the Darkroot Basin to take the grabby hand to Oolacile... which wasn't there. Oops. So, it turns out I had to fight Kalameet first; killing Manus closes the portal, and so on a no bonfire run you can't get back to Oolacile once the portal closes, ever. I tried the bonfire at Firelink Shrine to see if they'd let me warp back to Oolacile somehow... nope. Literally had no warp locations available since I'd never kindled any bonfires. Guess I'll kill everything except Kalameet then? Ahahahahahahahah. ;w;
Last edited by BareKnuckleRoo on Mon Oct 28, 2024 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sumez
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by Sumez »

That's okay, it's not like Kalameet is the by far toughest boss on level 1 or anything :P

You'll get him another day.
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BareKnuckleRoo
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Re: From Software 'n such

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Sure, twist the knife. ;w;

He's the toughest for sure, which is why I usually deal with him last. He's manageable under standard SL1 rules by bringing in a +15 Light Crossbow and shooting him down when he's open, but SL1 melee or this run where my only damaging options are melee means you have to run up to him to hit him, giving you way more limited attack opportunities, and he has the tendency to stomp on you at times. I've never had any success with the "just stay close to him strategy". His nastiest attack is the one where he suddenly charges past you then spins and breathes fire. Easily the attack responsible for killing me in most attempts.

Next time I do a no levelling run with a Warrior or Hunter I'll deliberately save the Crystal Halberd at +0 along with some unupgraded armor, and use that I guess. Or the Giant's Hammer or the Lightning Spear. I can at least fight Kalameet under the same conditions as I would've hear just to say I've done it.

edit: since I've got more experience with "no levelling" runs in DS1 (a.k.a. Soul Level 1 but with classes even worse than Pyromancer who technically start at higher "levels" but with worse stats) I was musing on the easiest vs toughest classes to do it with, given you allow everything:
Spoiler
Good Classes:

• Pyromancer: Modest across the board stats with two attunement slots for Pyromancy and just barely 12 strength to use key shields like the Balder Shield. 12+ Str lets you use the Balder Shield one-handed, with FaP ring and a high levelled Balder Shield you can block a ton of hits and even block hard hits from the DLC bosses, helpful if you're a bit late on dodges.

• Cleric: Trades an attunement point and endurance for extra vit and the ability to use Heal and Great Heal Excerpt. Otherwise, stats are similar to Pyromancer. If you're struggling with access to healing, this class really isn't too bad. Only one attunement slot means you have to be choosy about what you bring into battle with you.

• Knight, Deprived: 11s in all of their noteworthy stats makes equipment options somewhat more limited, but not to the point where it's problematic. You get an attunement slot for things like Power Within.

• Bandit: You'll only really be able to use the Battle Axe or Reinforced Club for melee due to that awful dex, but has the best overall starting vit and end stats for a no levelling playthrough. Ideal for meleeing stuff, and the only class with the stats to use the Heavy Crossbow one-handed (which makes it fire and reload much faster than two-handing it). No attunement slots means no spells, so Power Within won't be an option.

• Warrior, Hunter: Good selection of weapons, no attunement slots means no ability to use any Pyromancy. Crossbows always work for range, and they can use actual bows as well.

• Wanderer: Cool starting outfit, bad physical stats aside from Dex. Can just barely use a Light Crossbow one-handed at least, can make very good use of a Balder Side Sword or a Longsword. One attunement slot is nice to have if you use Pyromancy.

Bad Classes:

• Thief: Awful physical stats leaves your weapon selection quite limited, and you're very frail. Only the Sorcerer has worse vit. Spears are an option if you can stomach two handing them for the extra stamina use. One handed options consist basically of Bandit's Knife, Ghost Blade, or Rapier. Can't use a Light Crossbow one-handed either, meaning it will reload quite slowly. You get an attunement slot at least.

• Possibly very good? Very bad?

• Sorcerer: Worst starting stats in the game aside from attunement and intelligence. You're super frail, have awful endurance, but you have 3 attunement slots and enough intelligence to use the Oolacile Ivory Catalyst, letting you cast as if you had a whopping 27 intelligence. Not a massive amount, but high enough to let you hit quite respectable numbers on bosses up to Anor Londo, and that's before adding a Bellowing Dragoncrest Ring and something like Dusk's Crown to the mix. Compared to a Cleric's starting Faith which doesn't access many miracles, 15 Int gets a ton of useful sorceries including Soul Arrow, Heavy Soul Arrow, Great Soul Arrow, Great Magic Weapon, Fall Control, and so on. Cast Light is also convenient to have.

Possibly a very powerful SL1 class thanks to being able to apply weapon buffs? But that 8 vit may be so low you're liable to be one-shotted by a lot of stuff, and you can't use any of the decent mid-weight shields in the game one-handed. I might try this class next in a no levelling run as it has some interesting glass cannon potential.
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