From Software 'n such

[Bananamatic]

But being anything but overly critical of games isn't cool these days.

there's not much "good" to say about games that hasn't been said a billion times

yes it's soulsborne
yes it's still fun
yes the atmosphere is cool
no it's nothing groundbreaking anymore
it's pointless to sit around and jerk each other off over why and how much we love soulsborne because it's been said a billion times and everyone knows that
it's much more engaging to discuss the negatives of games because it seems to be different for everyone
and if you had to nitpick the positives of the game instead, it would mean that the game is garbage and the obvious stuff everyone knows is bad

[Blinge]

it's pointless to sit around and jerk each other off over why and how much we love soulsborne because it's been said a billion times and everyone knows that

I'm afraid my dick ain't satisfied yet. I burn for your touch.

it's much more engaging to discuss the negatives of games because it seems to be different for everyone

Ait.

and if you had to nitpick the positives of the game instead, it would mean that the game is garbage and the obvious stuff everyone knows is bad

Wat? don't quite understand.

[Sumez]

I get that. It's not very interesting to discuss all the stuff everyone already agrees on about the game. That said, I think most people agree there's a lot of stuff you could be critical about with BB.
Personally, I feel it's the most repetitive of the games. World building and atmosphere is a big part of the formula, and BB just didn't have a lot of different locales. Generally I'm not a fan of the bosses either. A lot of them are similar, or at least required pretty much the same strategy, and a lot went down in the first try. The witch, though not really hard, was at least a different concept, and at the point in the game when I fought her, I was happy to not just fight another big beast with timed dodges and backstabs.

Most of all though, fatigue was about to set in at this point - the only reason I was so happy for another good game in the series was that at this point DS2 had really let me down, so it was good to see that From still had it. When I played DS3 I was pretty fatigued, but the game was good enough that I enjoyed it till the end. I'm really relived that Sekiro isn't another game in the same formula. It'll probably have a lot of similarities, but I'm looking forward to the differences.

[Obscura]

The real question is, why has Blinge apparently still not gotten around to Shadow Tower: Abyss?

[Bananamatic]

I get that. It's not very interesting to discuss all the stuff everyone already agrees on about the game. That said, I think most people agree there's a lot of stuff you could be critical about with BB.

I thought bloodborne was meant to be faster paced
instead the combat is the same old "bait the boss into using attack X, punish with Y hits, back off" because if you try to actually get close to the boss the camera goes crazy spinning everywhere
I don't even know what's the point of guns, ammo is limited, they do almost no damage and just hitting everything with a big sword and not getting hit gets you through the game just fine

[Squire Grooktook]

Guns are for parrying for most characters, which does a lot of damage. If you actually want to do damage with them outside of parrying, you either use cannon or go for a bloodtinge build with the the double revolver (the one that shoots two bullets at once). For a mega fun glass cannon build you can also combine that with the katana that drains your hp (since that also uses bloodtinge in its transformed state).

Personally didn't feel any same-yness from Bloodborne's bosses. In fact, I personally feel it has the most well executed variety in the franchise in that department. I like that they mixed in more bosses that actually had hitstun instead of hyperarmor on everything (Martyr and the final are my favorite bosses in the series).

I was also getting very, very fatigued at that point - not just with Souls, but 3d character action in general - but I didn't feel one bit of fatigue with Bloodborne. Game really felt magical for me. Dark Souls 3 on the other hand, it was good but...I definitely was feeling the burn out throughout.

[guigui]

Seconding Squire on the parrying gun things. If you Banana play BB without ever trying to shoot stuffs at the right moment, you're missing a really nice aspect of the combat system.
Try your hand on the big brick guys in Central.

[Blinge]

The real question is, why has Blinge apparently still not gotten around to Shadow Tower: Abyss?

Aha.
Soon, man! I was just polishing off the rest of DS3 and getting all trophs/cheevs for the series. Wanted to be FromKing.
Although the cheeves are more time consuming than difficult tbf.

I will get to it once I've cleared my plate a bit.

Hey Banana if you want it to be less like Souls, stop playing it like Souls. Put the big sword down. Use the rally mechanic more.
Aim for bosses limbs and go for staggers.

And generally, gee I'm so tired of shmups, they're all basically the same thing.

[Sumez]

Yeah "parrying" is dead easy in BB because you can do it at a distance, without putting yourself at a risk. But it's still really fun to do. I never do it in DS because I know if I fail it I'm dead instantly.

[Blinge]

Heh.. even my DS3 forbidden tech didn't save me: index finger on L1 to block, middle finger hits parry so if you're too late you'll still block the hit. Parrying for me was an exercise in bloody mindedness in NG+. Sometimes I'd respawn several times to fail parry attempts on the same little hollow until I got one.

Andre Remastered

[Bananamatic]

did that, feels too slow, crowd control is way easier than doing stuff slowly 1 by 1, mechanics also feel weird (sometimes you can parry them from a mile away)
I'm not even sure if the game has backstabs because I never tried, no point in backstabbing when just hitting things kills them faster
I pretty much only parry the hunter npcs, feels pointless everywhere

Hey Banana if you want it to be less like Souls, stop playing it like Souls. Put the big sword down. Use the rally mechanic more.
Aim for bosses limbs and go for staggers.

And generally, gee I'm so tired of shmups, they're all basically the same thing.

I don't even know what "rally" is, what half of the stats or status effects do or really anything beyond dodge and hit things with sword and it works amazingly well
if the game wants me to stop hitting things with a big sword it better give me a reason to do so

[Blinge]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Bananamatic]

just realized another thing, the stats and overall how the game works isn't very good for a 1st playthrough in terms of variety
you see nothing that scales off arcane or bloodtinge at the beginning and overall the game is more confusing than the others at the beginning

want an int build in dark souls or 2? here's a starting spell
want to build faith? here's a starting miracle, it's not much but something
bloodborne? here are 3 starting weapons. all scale off dex or str, when do I get something for the other 2 stats? still haven't found basically anything here

and then you had the "I have 10k echoes, how the fuck do I level up" at the beginning
though that was actually pretty cool

it's still an 8/10 for me but the novelty stuff seems like a step back compared to classic souls

EDIT:
rom the fossilized turd was a joke boss
the undead mass was super easy once I noticed the doors that let you on the balcony
amygdala was a way cooler boss than anything before it but it was a bit of a pushover, beat it on the 1st try without any real issues
are all the maingame bosses easy? are all the cool ones in chalices and the DLC?

[Necronopticous]

[Sumez]

Shit that just makes me want to get started on Shadow Tower.

I'm all lined up and ready to go. Guess I should just start at the beginning though? (yeah I know I'm missing the first Jap release, but I think I'll manage)

[BIL]

Fuckin hell, that PS1 Shadow Tower cover art is metal. AGETEC were heroes of my pre-importer late 90s/early 00s gaming.

[Sumez]

I think it's just the Japanese cover with the logo in a less stylish placement

[Necronopticous]

Fuckin hell, that PS1 Shadow Tower cover art is metal.

If you think the front cover is metal, you should read the back cover.



Yes, soul rape.

[BIL]

I think it's just the Japanese cover with the logo in a less stylish placement

Oh no doubt. R-Type Delta's US release just about preserves the simple horror of the JP... but then smacks a "FOR THE FIRST TIME IN 3D" blurb on. Yeah thanks, we can see that, it's the first game's iconic R9 v Dobkeratops showdown in render! Oh bless 'em. I hope that blurb gave even one noob the gumption to try out IREM's unlikely latter-day masterpiece.

But anyway, this was before I figured out that with my tastes and the state of the market, it made more sense to go full import!
So I am forever in their debt for helping me out while I was...
lost in Burgerland (;｀ω´;)

If you think the front cover is metal, you should read the back cover.

Yes, soul rape.

Nice. Gives Pinhead's famous "WE'LL TEAR YOUR SOUL APART" a whole new meaning! Although I maintain my "rip your head off and fuck the stump" is even more metal!

Wait. "One-Eyed Crown?" That is a stealth dick joke isn't it

[Bananamatic]

so I accidentally beat bloodborne because the boss I thought is the final boss is the true last boss
now I'm stuck doing the DLC in ng+

[Necronopticous]

I'm all lined up and ready to go. Guess I should just start at the beginning though?

I think so. I started with King's Field II myself, and I'm glad I did. It takes some real mental stamina to get used to the look & feel of these games in 2018, and it made sense to just start at the most primitive so, at least in presentation, I was able to fully appreciate the evolution.

Also, it's not as if Shadow Tower is a straight improvement over the preceding King's Field games. It's a bizarre, disorienting, and obtuse experience that is mechanically off the wall. Having some familiarity with the common mechanics of those earlier games is really helping me get my mind around the new ones, and keeping it from feeling impenetrable. I was pretty intimidated by my observations in the first hour or two, as was intended by the developers to some extent, I expect.

[Blinge]

rom the fossilized turd was a joke boss
the undead mass was super easy once I noticed the doors that let you on the balcony
amygdala was a way cooler boss than anything before it but it was a bit of a pushover, beat it on the 1st try without any real issues

reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Oh. who was the final boss you fought? I assume it was

Spoiler

Gehrman. he's not the TLB.. but may aswell be.

Fuckin hell, that PS1 Shadow Tower cover art is metal.

Stop with your 2D gheyms and join the FromHype train!

Necron are those your maps? They're cool, did you draw for KF too?
I just wandered around ST lost a lot, tbh.
Man I thought Shadow Tower blows. It's interesting, I guess.. and better if all you care about is raw challenge, but that's it.
100% Tru hustlers start with KF Japan.. haha.
I went 2>1>3>4 though, that's probably the best way if you're gonna emulate JP as well.

[Necronopticous]

Necron are those your maps? They're cool, did you draw for KF too?

They are! I didn't feel the need to draw maps in King's Field. I considered it, but the compass & in-game maps sufficed for my initial blind playthru. Shadow Tower very intentionally removed these things, and even plays other tricks on you, to make you feel disoriented. I played for a bit trying to just mentally internalize the levels, but eventually decided that I needed to map it. Also, my wife is playing through this one with me, and she really enjoys the cartography element.

I just wandered around ST lost a lot, tbh.
Man I thought Shadow Tower blows. It's interesting, I guess.. and better if all you care about is raw challenge, but that's it.

You know, I was really worried at first. No compass? No run button? Unresponsive menu button? Equipment durability with lightning fast degradation? Loading screens between menu transitions? Non-respawning enemies with randomized loot? It seemed like a mechanical shit show.

I'm a little bit further in now, though, and I'm starting to realize that a lot of thought went into the way they did things in this game. It works, and it's unlike any other RPG system I've ever seen before or after. I'm not sure how I will end up feeling about this game in the end, but as of now I am highly intrigued.

100% Tru hustlers start with KF Japan.. haha.
I went 2>1>3>4 though, that's probably the best way if you're gonna emulate JP as well.

I'll play the original eventually. It's tough for me because I really prefer to play games of this era on my PVM collection and don't like to emulate if I can help it. I'm going to have to figure something out for Shadow Tower Abyss, as well.

[guigui]

Why not a little post of something we all love in BB ? That sound when you walk on the carpet in Cainhurst Castle entrance, almost as good as the tricycle sound on the carpets in The Shining.

[BIL]

Stop with your 2D gheyms and join the FromHype train!

OMG



IM WORKIN ON IT

I bought both Otogis and tons of Armored Cores BITD, also ADVENTURE OF COOKIE N' CREAM. I helped financed this gangsta shit.

ANY MAN DIES WITH A CLEAN SWORD, I'LL RAPE HIS FUCKING CORPSE

[Sumez]

Oh. who was the final boss you fought? I assume it was

Spoiler

Gehrman. he's not the TLB.. but may aswell be.

Honestly both that boss and the one following immediately after are some of the easiest bosses in the game. At the risk of reaching the same condescending tone as Bananamatic, I beat both of them in my first attempt, as the strategy, once again, was the same as pretty much any other boss in the game. Timed dodge and hit them from behind, rinse, repeat. I didn't even do particularly well against them, as I obviously had no idea what i was doing.

I don't remember how to trigger the "TLB" but I gotta admit I wasn't expecting that to be it either.

I'm going to have to figure something out for Shadow Tower Abyss, as well.

Look forward to this one. It's the only one I've played to some degree. Flirted a bit with KF4 but couldn't get over the cumbersome controls. ST Abyss plays much, much better, and has some really god damn solid atmosphere. It's very easy to see what Demon's Souls was built on here.
The fan translation of Abyss is playable from a regular USB harddrive with the help of a FreeMcBoot btw.

[Necronopticous]

Flirted a bit with KF4 but couldn't get over the cumbersome controls. ST Abyss plays much, much better, and has some really god damn solid atmosphere. It's very easy to see what Demon's Souls was built on here.

You do get used to the controls, you just have to stick with it. It took me a few hours to feel even the slightest degree of comfort with the slow turning speed and the awkwardness of L2/R2, but I was eventually able to stop thinking about it so much.

It is amazing how immersive & atmospheric even the early King's Field games can be with such primitive assets. It has always been a strong point for From. Shadow Tower is legitimately creeping me out at times.

[rapoon]

are all the maingame bosses easy? are all the cool ones in chalices and the DLC?

vanilla bosses are all pretty easy. DLC and Chalice bosses are tougher, particularly Chalice, but there's a facet to some to the dungeons
that exacerbates their 'difficulty'; they just kill you in 1-2 hits.

[Blinge]

I beat both of them in my first attempt

Basically a meme at this point isn't it.

oh I didn't. Guess I should just hang up my controller for good.
Although take this as a bullshit excuse if you will - knowing it was the final boss and wanting to soak in the experience, I tried parrying, waiting to see all his attacks, not playing optimally.
I had about 2 vials when I first met MP and didn't figure out the 'trick'. But for MP they should've given it more health.

Also i think if anyone does the slightest amount of level grinding all "hurr beat it first try m8" claims are void.

Edit:

the strategy, once again, was the same as pretty much any other boss in the game. Timed dodge and hit them from behind, rinse, repeat.

What would you prefer for a final boss, then.

[Sumez]

I don't know, just something different. I wouldn't even mind that it's easy, if they present it in a way that breaks up the experience a bit. It went down so quick I barely registered it was there. Didn't feel particularly epic. :\

Do you have to still beat both bosses in succession if you die in the second fight?