From Software 'n such

[Steamflogger Boss]

Whenever people claim sending the player back to a checkpoint after dying is bad game design, I always wonder what their proposed alternative is.

This is something that I've been thinking about a lot lately. When I played every souls game for the first time, I never got annoyed with the checkpoint placement. Hell, I even remember getting pissed at Dark Souls 3 because there were a few instances where there were bonfires on a viewing distance from another. Then, after I started replaying the games, more often than not I got annoyed, because mainly I was running to fight bosses, so dying at the boss and having to make a 1-2 minute runback became quite a chore.

And this got somewhat more obvious to me when I played the recent Metroidvania Aeterna Noctis. The game is really hard (way harder than anything From Software made) and the checkpoint placement is brilliant the way I see. The gameworld is huge and every few steps has a very difficult platforming challenge. Dying is completely normal in the game, and it would become really annoying to beat every platforming hell section over and over just to get to where you were before. To solve this, the devs used an inhuman amount of checkpoints during the game, so you never feel that you're wasting your time or something like this.

After playing Aeterna, I feel that I'll be quite pissed with Elden Ring if I have to make big runbacks to get to bosses. Then again, I don't have the slightest idea on how this game's systems work, since I'm trying to get as unspoiled as possible before release.

Given that they removed boss runbacks in Sekiro I don't think they will be back.

[guigui]

Runback in Souls games never really bothered me. Gave me time to rethink about why I failed and to come up with new strategies, also taught me how to speed dodge certain ennemies, maybe even gave temptation to some of us to learn speedrunning ?

[Blinge]

^ yeah pretty much this

If you're struggling with a boss you become a wizard for the run-back. Start developing your own personal route.

the other thing about that ragepost from SteamFlog's buddy is it's clearly steeped in:
"I missed the boat on this game, i bet it's overrated, i'm gonna play it to confirm that everyone has shit taste except me"

[Ed Oscuro]

You know, I just realized this is something a developer could leave to the player: whether to automatically restart at a boss or start some distance back. Retracing gives a player a chance to breathe but it also forces them to exit the boss mindset for a bit, for good and bad. I don't really think one approach needs be considered "better" than other; they're different.

[BIL]

I had to restart on That Bitch Larry like a million times in Bloodborne, and I will be forever grateful to whoever gave the two random Scrub Hunters the curious ability to fuck up that Vicar Of Teh Cosmos/SOOPER NIGHTMARE EXECUTIOENR while I hustled past.

Not that I don't rove Vickies, but Larry a real ho until you truly comprehend his second phase's YMCA-paddling antics. 3;

Fond memories of DSP still managing to get bummed violently every time by that sneaky Eye Collector lurking near BeastWig's much, much simpler runback - our gouty hero presumably delirious, after BeastCutter Hunter force-fed him a bucket of his own button-masher shit "SONIC BOOOM!"

[Steamflogger Boss]

^ yeah pretty much this

If you're struggling with a boss you become a wizard for the run-back. Start developing your own personal route.

the other thing about that ragepost from SteamFlog's buddy is it's clearly steeped in:
"I missed the boat on this game, i bet it's overrated, i'm gonna play it to confirm that everyone has shit taste except me"

Yeah there was definitely some of that to it. There ended up being a ton of discussion after that because lord knows I can't actually help myself.

I'm pretty neutral on boss runbacks. Except the really long ones. Fuck those.

[Blinge]

Alright. Soulsborne, what's the longest boss runback ?

[Blinge]

"SONIC BOOOM!"

ahahahahah. forgot about that.

The great thing about this hunter is you can literally sprint past while hugging the left of him, the shotgun will whiff every time.

I learned that when becoming very, very acquainted with the Larry runback. As someone said; you refine it to a science if you're willing to experiment.
(oh dsp wasnt running back it was his first dance with the guy)

I don't like the idea of giving the player the choice between The Run (tm) and instant boss retry. 99% of gaemers would choose the retry.

[guigui]

Alright. Soulsborne, what's the longest boss runback ?

Havent played Sekiro, but I remember Graevlord Nito's runback to be pretty annoying.

[BIL]

"SONIC BOOOM!"

ahahahahah. forgot about that.

The great thing about this hunter is you can literally sprint past while hugging the left of him, the shotgun will whiff every time.

I learned that when becoming very, very acquainted with the Larry runback. As someone said; you refine it to a science if you're willing to experiment.
(oh dsp wasnt running back it was his first dance with the guy)

Not a gambling man, but I'd bet on DSP not knowing that to this day. Some people are just pathologically averse to learning, even in something as wonderfully trivial as videogames. First thing to do with an unfamiliar boss, in an oldschool Fast Aimed Shotter STG? "Can it shoot behind itself? How about to the sides?" Get all up in those cracks and crevices, burrow down between the frames, figure shit out! That's analysis, reconnaissance! It's not like you're sending good men to their deaths to learn this stuff, FFS.

Man, I dunno which I like more. The that went off in my head all these months later, at Cutteh Boi's *CHNKKK* transform SFX and horizontal windup (golden parry layup! don't fire until he brings his weight forward!)... or the same attack crushing poor DSP like an ant, slamming into his side the instant his i-frames ended and his penalty frames hit. I was and am in love with this game's animations, and sounds, too goddamn satisfying. Slicing motherfuckers with the Saw's chillingly unhurried, stagger-happy transform (*SKRRRRK*) felt like taking down chumps with an unsafely disposed tuna can. (those things are horrifying >_<)

While I've only played BB, the only runback I found notably lengthy there was Logarius's. Fairly tall elevator, then hustle through the ghost-infested library and up a long ladder (yeet Blowdart Boi off his perch and execute he ass with GUILLOTINE STRIKE, so he doesn't poke yer bum - pretty satisfying tbh! the execution, not the poke!), then a fairly long circuit around to the staircase, get on the roof and run past those pelvic-thrusting cunts who don't deserve their spectacular name Lost Children Of Antiquity, then up another ladder to Logeh Boi. I didn't realise you can just shoot his Summoner Sword (#bromo) until Loop 2, so I died quite a few times (thought you were supposed to hide behind the towers, haha - it works but obviously fuccs your evasive ability)

Even then, that was nothing really. Kozmo's seems longer than it is because when you're new, he'll probably knock you the fuck out, but it's nothing besides a short elevator descent and a quick jog. Always send the lift back up in case you die. Same with Ebby-chan (quite a long descent but again it's well under a minute from Lumenflower Garden to her).

Several are outright short, like Maria's right outside her room. And often kind, like BeastWiggeh's skelebro who drops a whopping five vials ERREH TIME.



Dude I'm sorry I clobbered you like two dozen times learning Wiggeh, can we be friends, I have some sweet theories on you 3;

Honestly, if it weren't for the slightly punitive respawn loadtimes, I would've come away from 300hrs on BB not suspecting runbacks were even a thing. OFC, I was cosplaying as the Battle-Hardened and BRAWNEH War Veteran Dr. Biruford, a survivor of many harrowing 1LCs in dimensions foreign to Yarnyfordshire. Press a button to heal? Press a button to dodge? Sonny yer avin a larf aintcha?!

I guess Miggy in Nightmare Frontier could suck if you somehow missed the elevator, bwaaahahaha!

[Stevens]

If the Shadows were tougher their run back would suck. Even with the shortcuts.

[BIL]

Oh yeah, that's a notable one for sure. Totally forgot as, like you say, they're not much. Helluva great scene though, and menacing as all hell to new eyes, with their striding out of the mist to their campaign-exclusive Chalice boss BGM. Man, this is taking me back... finally reaching the neatly-manicured (albeit backstabber-monitored) trail to Bergy felt like coming out of a fairytale nightmare forest. At one point, I was running from a bunch of things I'd never seen before, went careening through a bush and down a ravine, and landed in a nest of other things I'd not seen before. Magical.

Forbidden Woods is my favourite area, from aesthetic standpoint anyhow (Hunter's Nightmare, Research Hall and Fisheh Towne are my picks for HARDCORE KILLING ). It's like an authentically overgrown, rambling triple layer cake of rustic action/horror ala MGS3. Dogtowne (ARMOURED GREEN ), Snakesville (Hydra Tanks!), Piggehshire (Up the river like Apocalypse NAO!).

Packs a helluva optional miniboss too! Blimey! You scared meh!
'ave you got a screw loose, or is that just your... animal intuition?

Spoiler

RIP bedsheet ghost ninjas, betrayed by perfidious piggehs 3;

Spoiler

[Blinge]

[Stevens]

I don't understand people who want to finish a new game, especially a new From title, ASAP.

Like I don't fucking get it at all.

A first play through of a From game is like a 12 year scotch you casked yourself. Why would you want to rush that?

Of course this is coming from a guy who watched the first trailer and nothing else.

[Blinge]

100% man

people spend years waiting and speculating, dicks in hand for a long time clamouring for new FromSoft title
blow their load in a week, then clamour for the next one. Christ alive.
The gold rush to be the first to cover it in video-content is gonna be cringe as all hell, too.
I think a lot of it comes down to this FOMO about being in a game's zeitgeist when it comes out. People don't wanna be late to the party or miss the boat.

I'm not even gonna buy it on release. for whatever weird psychological reason; I'm not hyped.
It's no problem, i'm just gonna dip from the thread and play/come back/paddle after the boat when I'm ready.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

It seems like a lot of the people who want to consume a game then immediately froth madly for the next one often are the same folks who won't bother revisiting older games to try and experience it in new ways, such as doing magic only runs or whatnot.

They use the game and toss it like a wadded up tissue after they're done.

[Steamflogger Boss]

Any brave gamers try this on a base PS4? I was gonna go PC but reading that is a HOT MESS. Not buying a PS5. Hmm.

[drauch]

What about PC? The requirements?

[Steamflogger Boss]

What about PC? The requirements?

Apparently it runs like shit and has lots of bugs.

[drauch]

Aye. I'm holding off regardless for the time being, but I know a few folks that pre-ordered it on PC. I'll report anything back if they experience anything odd.

[BIL]

Any brave gamers try this on a base PS4? I was gonna go PC but reading that is a HOT MESS. Not buying a PS5. Hmm.

What the shit, I had no idea it even was on PS4. I might've been tempted, but to be honest... my one complaint with Bloodborne was the respawn loadtimes being a bit punitive, considering how quickly and repeatedly deaths can occur. I would play the absolute fuck out of a (good) PS5 remaster with quick loading. I might hold off on ER until I've upgraded, for that reason.

(holding off on Sekiro for the same reason pretty much... speaking of which, I suspect I'm attracted to these games on an aesthetics-first basis. >_> BB's NeoVictorian cosmic horror is my mahfuckin catnip, as is Sekiro's bitterly dark necro-feudal, but I don't feel much either way for Souls or what I've seen of ER. I'm sure they're of excellent quality, make no mistake, they just don't make me go "BRUH THATS FUCCKEN SHAWEEEEEEET" the way BB's trailers did)

[drauch]

speaking of which, I suspect I'm attracted to these games on an aesthetics-first basis. >_> BB's NeoVictorian cosmic horror is my mahfuckin catnip, as is Sekiro's bitterly dark necro-feudal, but I don't feel much either way for Souls or what I've seen of ER. I'm sure they're of excellent quality, make no mistake, they just don't make me go "BRUH THATS FUCCKEN SHAWEEEEEEET" the way BB's trailers did)

Aye, I'm the same way. Souls should at least scratch the bitterly dark itch for you. You definitely get the corpses hanging around everywhere, absolute desolation/life suxxx theme in spades. Conversely, Sekiro never stuck out to me much, which is why I've still held off on that. Souls is clearly fantastical, no doubt, but ER has come off a wee bit too fantasy for my tastes to get super excited. Granted, I've tried to not watch much, but nothings got me frothing for that day-one celebration. In due time!

[Sumez]

My frothing demand for this game increases. And I'll consume it as fast as it takes, it's all a question of whether I'll be able to put it down.

[Steamflogger Boss]

I've got the PS4 version coming. I'm on the frontlines here LOL

[Sumez]

Got the game today, and since I have work to do I haven't had much time, but I played for about an hour, and at least to me it runs completely fine on PS4.

The framerate isn't stable, and I'm sure it doesn't look as cool as it would on PS5. But if you're fine with how Bloodborne, DS3, and Sekiro performed on PS4, this game doesn't do anything different. At least not from what I've seen so far.

[BIL]

Muh dick (｀w´メ)

[Austin]

Nabbed the Steam version yesterday.

*unlocks in 9 hours*

Right about the time I get off work today, haha. Can't wait to try it.

[Steamflogger Boss]

Got the game today, and since I have work to do I haven't had much time, but I played for about an hour, and at least to me it runs completely fine on PS4.

The framerate isn't stable, and I'm sure it doesn't look as cool as it would on PS5. But if you're fine with how Bloodborne, DS3, and Sekiro performed on PS4, this game doesn't do anything different. At least not from what I've seen so far.

This is what I like to hear.

[BIL]

Crime Fighters 2, Metal Slug 3 and Thunder Dragon 2 runs coming along nicely, when *BRAAAAAAP* DS4 dpad shits the bed, right on schedule. And te local shoppes don't stock them any more, because te yoofs kep stealin em! The fuck? :/ Imma build that arcade stick methinks. In the meantime let's do that BB replay we've been putting off.

...

HOO HOOOOO (◎w◎;)

STEALTH ATTACK FAILED. A rematch 300hrs in the making. Lads I nearly shit me pants Woulda helped to collect the two vials on the dead cunt in the other room.

BB, game of strategy



WILD WEST BGM ♫

That mahfuckin Shinobi Step is so good >w<; Feels like you're slicing between the blade and the ground while the attacker blunders forward, opening up that juicy spine. All your Eggos belong to me!

Spoiler

God damn I look fine. (｀w´メ)



THIS BE MAH MUHFUCKIN MISTEH MOORIN JAM (◎w◎;)

VERY MATURE LOVECRAFTIAN HORROR

Spoiler

Ha, so you still wake up on the ground like you've been CANING IT MASSIVE either way. Cute ^w^



Oh lawd its beautiful 3;<

Spoiler

Oh, hm. Never seen that text before. Connected to the nightmare, you say. Must be ominous when you don't know what it's for.

[rapoon]

Got the game today, and since I have work to do I haven't had much time, but I played for about an hour, and at least to me it runs completely fine on PS4.

The framerate isn't stable, and I'm sure it doesn't look as cool as it would on PS5. But if you're fine with how Bloodborne, DS3, and Sekiro performed on PS4, this game doesn't do anything different. At least not from what I've seen so far.

Framerate not stable on PS5 in performance mode. the dips are really noticable. lot of ppl downloading the ps4 version, which runs at 60fps on ps5. hopefully they'll sort this out soon.