Phantasy Star Series

[blackoak]

A timely thread bump, hehe--I just finished a few Phantasy Star interviews here:

Phantasy Star IV - 1993 Developer Interview
Phantasy Star II - 1989 Developer Interview
Phantasy Star - Composer Retrospective

[Blinge]

Awesome!!

[FinalBaton]

Thanks a ton blackoak! will be reading these religiously

EDIT : finished reading 'em. that was awesome.
Something I really enjoyed learning about, was the expectations/limitations that came with the ROM sizes, wheter it's 6Mbit cart or 24Mbit one. and how the staff deals with that but also when does Sega feel like it's right to greenlight a move to a bigger ROM size or not, etc. Also always enjoy reading/learning about kickass ladies in game development : That Kodama lady realllllly knows what makes for good rpg mechanics, she's awesome. Of course, learning how the staff spent great attention to details in PSIV was amazing. It's no surprise (it shows in the game) but to see their mindset and all these little examples they outline, you really feel the love they've poured into the game

[ryu]

Man that Phantasy Star II Interview reads a lot like an advert for Sega.

Beat the first game today. Took me a bit of getting used to many of the archaic aspects, but I quite liked it. The way progression works like a huge puzzle is timeless and today's games could learn from that.

Onto the next one it is..

[Stevens]

Man that Phantasy Star II Interview reads a lot like an advert for Sega.

Beat the first game today. Took me a bit of getting used to many of the archaic aspects, but I quite liked it. The way progression works like a huge puzzle is timeless and today's games could learn from that.

Onto the next one it is..

Good luck with II. Playing it blind? Some of those dungeons are nightmareish.

[ryu]

Man that Phantasy Star II Interview reads a lot like an advert for Sega.

Beat the first game today. Took me a bit of getting used to many of the archaic aspects, but I quite liked it. The way progression works like a huge puzzle is timeless and today's games could learn from that.

Onto the next one it is..

Good luck with II. Playing it blind? Some of those dungeons are nightmareish.

I'm trying to. Is it really that bad?

[Heavy Viper]

PSII is notorious for its overall high difficulty, yes. It came with a strategy book packed in when it was released in the west, and subsequent re-releases have all had some kind of "easy mode" patched it. The dungeons start off brutal and only get more savage.

Conquer it for the cred. >:3

[BryanM]

I wouldn't call it brutal so much as coming from a classical philosophy.

Exploring a dungeon should involve multiple incursions, as you learn the layout, learn the bestiary and bolster your resources. Otherwise it's not a challenge to be overcome, but rather a glorified walking simulator.

[Xyga]

Yeah play PSII the first time without the maps...if you seek some sort of motivation to kill yourself.

TBH I think it's doable if you have a lot of paper to waste (better use a tablet with a stylus), doable at least until two of the later dungeons and especially you know which one.

There, I'm not sure it's even worth it, I mean even if you beat it naked there will be no sense of accomplishment, just blood and tears and a lot of wasted time and effort.

NB: of course you can skip some treasure chests and therefore whole parts of the dungeons, but some are very valuable, considering in that game grinding for exp and cash is not very rewarding. Maybe half of the treasures are worth, they're often expensive equipment, some with particular effects and/or missable.

[ryu]

Looks like I'll just have to see for myself how far the blind approach carries me through the game. It's not like I can't consult a guide or map anytime I actually get stuck.

I took a glance at the hint book, and it rather looks like a complete walkthrough to me.

[Xyga]

It's a near-complete walktrough but not perfect (there are a few errors) and it doesn't tell you everything about the game.
Not showing you the way either, even with the maps some dungeons are still pretty tough to figure.

[Stevens]

Everyone here has spoken the truth. If you have the time then you may in fact enjoy playing it as you are, if time is an issue I'm kind of with Xyga on the time and effort thing.

I always felt, even leveled up, that every fight (especially late game) could be fatal.

Definitely not a game I would ever play again.

[Mischief Maker]

Well I'm here to agree and disagree with everyone about PS2. It's my favorite in the series and I consider it the perfect combination of the best of W and J RPGs of the time. Brutally challenging western-style dungeons to puzzle out, but with the overhead perspective of a JRPG that gives you more of a sense of place than the one or two grids at a time of a first person crawler. You'll need to draw maps, but you won't have to do it one grid at a time. While there's barely any plot, the theme and setting were just so original for the time. And the dungeons don't get that bad until the Dams. What's more, if you think the fights are too deadly even in late game, that's because you cheesed your way through with a walkthrough and now you're underleveled.

Best to consider PS2 a long-term project that'll take you a while and whose challenge level is the appeal. I would not suggest a plan of going through the entire series in order; 1&2 and 3&4 are on completely different levels of difficulty. If you're itching to get to 4 while working your way through 2, you will burn out.

I'd actually suggest skipping PS3 entirely (terrible ugly rushed game whose "generations" system just comes down to "ending button" choices that lead to a branching story, a story that's all the more watered down because it's spread thin across all the choices) and going straight to 4 right now for more of a Final Fantasy-style experience (the plots of 2 and 3 barely connect with 4) while chipping away at PS2 in the background and continuing to do so long after you've finished 4.

[Specineff]

Or, you can try the fan-made translation of Phantasy Star Generation 2 on a hacked PS2 or through emulation.

[FinalBaton]

I consider it the perfect combination of the best of W and J RPGs of the time. Brutally challenging western-style dungeons to puzzle out, but with the overhead perspective of a JRPG

Well that is a very interesting take actually

I had never analyzed this too much, but heavy-dungeon-crawling is pretty classic and defining western-rpg trait, indeed

[Mischief Maker]

Or, you can try the fan-made translation of Phantasy Star Generation 2 on a hacked PS2 or through emulation.

You know, to be honest I never liked what I saw of that version. It's running on higher tech, sure, but I dislike the art style and I really hate the soundtrack remix. And what the hell was up with giving Rolf the Eddie Munster hairdo?

But that reminds me of another detail I really liked about PS2, which was how the soundtrack took advantage of the stranger parts of the Genesis' synthesizer, as well as its built-in stereo support, to make for a weird and futuristic ambience:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yA_1EhC ... R11Nhtm7u7

[Blinge]

Hurk. I'm triggered by the thumbnails on that playlist, Mischief!
(PSII spoiler)

Spoiler

Can confirm PSIII is dogshit.
It's a waste of time but I had to find out the hard way.

I still have a minor regret for not making my own maps in II. My mapping in I did fall apart, though. This problem became way worse in the first person dungeons with pitfalls.. i simply didn't know which way i was pointing anymore.

I do feel like playing PSII again someday, though. A challenge playthrough using all the worst characters.. i wonder if it can be done?

[Xyga]

A challenge playthrough using all the worst characters.. i wonder if it can be done?

Of course, if you use the special items over an over and have a lot of patience, because the battles are slow as hell (lesser offense power and many turns used for healing)

I've never pushed Shir far-enough to acquire NAGRA and I don't know how many times she can cast it at max level. If it's a couple of times at least she can be useful to get you out of most tough-spot battles fast.

[Mischief Maker]

Hurk. I'm triggered by the thumbnails on that playlist, Mischief!
(PSII spoiler)

Spoiler

Oops.

[ryu]

Reporting back from my first trip to a dungeon. You guys are right, this is bad. If only I knew what the ocarinas do... bet one of them teleports me out of dungeons, but no to find out without wasting them.

Don't think I'll even attempt mapping this out. Were should I even start after using an elevator falling through a pit? With the former I don't even know whether they go up or down! Looks like the best aproach is to use maps, and do some grinding on the side instead of rushing through the game.

Think I'll heed Mischief Maker's advice and check out 3&4 while playing 2 only once in a while.

[Blinge]

His advice was to skip 3 entirely!

Honestly, I'd stick with 2 long term and not play 4 until afterwards.
It turns 4 into a massive payoff, imo.

[Mischief Maker]

Reporting back from my first trip to a dungeon. You guys are right, this is bad. If only I knew what the ocarinas do... bet one of them teleports me out of dungeons, but no to find out without wasting them.

Don't think I'll even attempt mapping this out. Were should I even start after using an elevator falling through a pit? With the former I don't even know whether they go up or down! Looks like the best aproach is to use maps, and do some grinding on the side instead of rushing through the game.

Think I'll heed Mischief Maker's advice and check out 3&4 while playing 2 only once in a while.

Elevators with the triangles pointing out go up, with triangles pointing in go down. Two of Rolf's earliest overworld techniques are RYUKA and HINAS, for teleporting to your last town and escaping the dungeon respectively. Use them liberally.

I know this game can be evil, and I know I'm being a little unreasonable, but if you're going to grind and use premade maps, that's the equivalent of credit-feeding this game. Unpuzzling the dungeons is the whole point of PS2's gameplay and all the grind will take care of itself while you do so. Might as well just skip straight to 4 if all you want is story.

And yes, skip 3 entirely. I owned it as a kid when these carts were super expensive and I only got one game for Christmas and just had it to play all year, and I didn't even see all four endings, it was so dull.

[Xyga]

Quit bullshitting him about the maps MM, no-maps runs and no grinding are only for those who have already cleared the game several times and know of all the dangers, tips and tricks to make the run easier.
And grinding is necessary at times for money, because when you're a beginner for many dungeons you really need the best equipment and as much recovery items as you can afford.

Seriously are you trying to disgust him? the game is tough even with all the help.

@ryu: Just play 2 with either scans of the hint book or fan-made maps.
Get well-prepared with the best equipment, plenty recovery items, and assault thoses dungeons walking the best routes.
Then yes definitely skip 3 and keep 4 for last.

[ryu]

Elevators with the triangles pointing out go up, with triangles pointing in go down

That knowledge may make a huge difference. How did I not notice that...
Thanks for pointing it out!


Is PS3 really -that- bad? Although the first five minutes already play much like a kid's first rpg maker game...

[PepsimanVsJoe]

PSIII is easily the worst of the Phantasy Star series, and a pretty bad RPG overall.

Oh and few things worth mentioning in regards to PSII:

-Stock up on monomates and especially dimates. Make sure everyone in your party has a handful of them. Healing items are much more effective than spells.
-Escapipes get you out of dungeons. Keep one as a backup in case Rolf dies and you can't use Hinas/Ryuka.
-There are a few pieces of equipment that can actually be used as spells. Try and collect them all, use a guide if you have to. However, don't expect to find any until midway through the game.
-Explore the first couple dungeons thoroughly. You're going to need every stick of dynamite you can find.
-If you don't mind grinding, stock up ceramic knives for Rolf, Rudo, and Amy. If you equip two one-handed weapons (such as knives, slashers, or handguns), you'll attack twice in a round.

If you have a Playstation 3 and a JPN account, you should definitely consider picking up the Sega Ages Phantasy Star Collection.
It includes all four games, including both the US and JP versions. There are "easy mode" options that either double or quadruple the experience/money gains, as well as increase the party's walking speed.
M2 also fixed a handful of bugs with the original games, such as the one in Phantasy Star 4 where characters actually lost stats after leveling past lvl 99. Not that it could ever happen in a normal playthrough, but hey.

Plus, unlike the Saturn collection, it isn't obscenely priced.

[ryu]

I already got the Saturn Collection. Has it really gotten expensive? Last time I checked japanese RPGs were for the biggest part dirt cheap.

The second trip to the dungeon in PS2 went a lot better. Still didn't manage to finish it because I don't know what I'm looking for in there and didn't find anything aside from a bunch of corpses.

[PepsimanVsJoe]

I already got the Saturn Collection. Has it really gotten expensive? Last time I checked japanese RPGs were for the biggest part dirt cheap.

The second trip to the dungeon in PS2 went a lot better. Still didn't manage to finish it because I don't know what I'm looking for in there and didn't find anything aside from a bunch of corpses.

You're really close actually.

Spoiler

There's a survivor in the room full of corpses.

[ED-057]

Phantasy Star III rulez! To be sure, I just plugged in the ol' cart and loaded up my save file from ages ago. Yep, still rulez. Or at least, I don't see how it is any worse than PS2. Not having to map out dungeons, your mental resources will be free to wonder WTF the NPCs were talking about while you navigate those tree mazes. PS3 has a uniquely appealing atmosphere and presentation, and the most epic plot of all PS games, if only we could figure out what it was.

[ryu]

the most epic plot of all PS games, if only we could figure out what it was

rotfl - what?

[Blinge]

Oh yeah a great part of PSIII is how you're supposed to enter a castle at some point and face a boss NPC
and THIS is what plays for the entire fight. https://youtu.be/iEd31hJsR3g

which was absurdly easy like nearly every fight in the game.
Then the main character just fucks her anyway and you have your next generation.
Actually that reminds me, the only good part in the entire story is

Spoiler

The reveal about the sleeper ship

Hmm.. just hearing about Ryu's beginning PSII makes me want to replay it.

PSII Foreshadowing much!

Spoiler