A few simple questions about Audio

[austin532]

I am looking toward buying a surround sound setup however I have a few questions which should not be a problem for the experts.


1. I wish to hook up my PS2, XBOX, Gamecube, PS3, Xbox 360, and Wii U to surround sound. My question is what do you think is the best way? I know for PS2 and XBOX the only way to get surround sound or Dolby 5.1 is by using a Digital Optical cable correct? Can the Gamecube even output surround sound?

2. Since the PS3 and Xbox 360 are already connected using HDMI and the sound is digital, is there any reason why I should still use Optical instead for those systems? HDMI vs. Optical?

3. HDMI sound can not be transferred through an Optical Digital cable and vice versa correct? If that's the case how do I get surround sound from the system to the TV and from the TV to the Subwoofer if it only has optical and analog inputs?

4. Would I just be better off buying a 5.1 surround sound system or should I buy a amplifier/receiver instead?

[Fudoh]

1. GameCube has Prologic. That's Surround channels encoded in the analogue stereo signal.

2. HDMI can carry 5.1 (or 7.1) in LPCM (without compression). SPDIF can only carry 5.1 in AC3 and DTS. PS3 and 360 can both output encoded surround, so both is fine. The Wii U on the other hand can only output LPCM surround, so you have to use HDMI.

3. Same as above. HDMI can carry both, LPCM and encoded surround. SPDIF cannot transport multi channel LPCM. Bitstream audio can be demuxed from a HDMI stream and transmitted using SPDIF - as long as it's either stereo LPCM or AC3 or DTS. Once you deal with multi channel LPCM (Wii U) you cannot do this anymore.

4. Don't know what you mean by "5.1 surround sound system". That usually implies getting an AVR along with the proper number of speakers.

[bobrocks95]

Fudoh addressed the points quite well already, but I already typed this all out so I'm just going to post it anyway.

1. I wish to hook up my PS2, XBOX, Gamecube, PS3, Xbox 360, and Wii U to surround sound. My question is what do you think is the best way? I know for PS2 and XBOX the only way to get surround sound or Dolby 5.1 is by using a Digital Optical cable correct? Can the Gamecube even output surround sound?

The Gamecube component cable can be modified to also output optical audio (it will still be Pro Logic II encoded, not true surround sound, but the sound quality will be higher). PS2 and Xbox have to use it as you said. For Wii U, PS3, and 360, it's easier to just use HDMI unless you're using a different video connector. Though I have heard that audio lag through HDMI is greater than through optical (Rock Band for instance recommends you use optical, which leads me to assume this is the case).

2. Since the PS3 and Xbox 360 are already connected using HDMI and the sound is digital, is there any reason why I should still use Optical instead for those systems? HDMI vs. Optical?

See above. HDMI does support more formats though, like LPCM, which are higher quality. HDMI should be perfectly fine for 99% of cases, and for newer stuff even better (I don't know how many PS3/360 games use LPCM or any other uncompressed format. I know HDMI is your only option for WiiU).

3. HDMI sound can not be transferred through an Optical Digital cable and vice versa correct? If that's the case how do I get surround sound from the system to the TV and from the TV to the Subwoofer if it only has optical and analog inputs?

You can get a device that extracts optical audio from an HDMI signal. It will only support formats that optical can handle though, so again, no LPCM.

There may be an HDMI splitter you can get to transfer audio to one device and video to another, but most modern TV's I've seen have a feature of HDMI built-in (which I can't remember the name of) that will allow you to output the sound the TV is receiving to an external receiver through an HDMI input. That, OR, get a receiver with HDMI inputs that lets you plug everything into it and then output the video portion to the TV. It's digital, so there won't be any signal degradation to worry about.

4. Would I just be better off buying a 5.1 surround sound system or should I buy a amplifier/receiver instead?

The 5.1 "Home-theater-in-a-box"'s I'm guessing you're talking about generally speaking aren't that great. They usually don't have many inputs (one my family owns just has 1 RCA stereo input. Completely worthless) and the speakers generally aren't great. That said it's a whole lot cheaper than getting a receiver, and you won't have to add the expense of speakers on top of that.

Best recommendation I'd have is to get an older or used receiver, maybe on Craigslist or ebay. Unless there's specific features you need, receivers are bloated with tons of crap you won't use these days. My personal 5.1 system I got on ebay for about $80 with speakers is an old Sony set they made before HTiaB's were popular, so it's got multiple inputs and has a decently powerful actual receiver to go with it. I'll need to upgrade whenever I get a Wii U since it doesn't have HDMI, and I wish the subwoofer was powered instead of passive, but for the price I paid it's a great starter system to get into surround sound.

[ZellSF]

Optical can be beneficial over HDMI if you're low on ports on audio equipment (run optical to audio equipment, HDMI to TV) or if your audio equipment decides to lag any image coming through it to compensate for its own audio delay.

WiiU needs HDMI, 360/PS3 doesn't (most people can't tell difference between full bandwith DD/DTS and multich PCM).

Though I have heard that audio lag through HDMI is greater than through optical (Rock Band for instance recommends you use optical, which leads me to assume this is the case).

I would image the opposite would be true for multichannel games as audio over optical needs to be encoded. I'm assuming Rock Band is stereo only.

[austin532]

Perhaps I should explain my setup. I currently have the PS2 connected to the Frameister through RGB Scart, the XBOX is connected through the D-Terminal, Gamecube is unplugged at the moment as I have to switch cables to play it, Wii U is connected to Frameister HDMI 1, Frameister is connected to TV, Xbox 360 and PS3 are connected to TV with HDMI. I'm hoping to get everything hooked up to surround sound.

I was looking at buying the Logitech 5.1 Surround Sound Speaker System Z906 as it has 2 Optical inputs which I'm guessing I could use for the PS2 and XBOX but you are saying I should get a receiver as well like the Sony STR-DH550 AV receiver?

I'm still a bit confused as to how all of this would hook up. This Sony receiver in particular has 4 HDMI inputs and 1 HDMI output which goes to the TV. How would I be getting digital 5.1 surround sound? From the Subwoofer out port which I'm guessing is actually coaxial? I know it can be either orange or black sometimes. If it is, how would that connect to a subwoofer that only has analog?

[Ji-L87]

I can't say about "surround-in-box" systems but the easiest way for you should be to connect all your consoles to an HDMI equipped AV receiver instead of the TV. Then you'll just have one HDMI lead from the receiver to the TV for picture. But some TVs also feature an HDMI out, so maybe you also could do it the other way around if that is somehow more convenient.

The subwoofer pre-out port is not coaxial, it's an analog output only intended for connecting an active sub to your system and you do that using a normal RCA cable (sometimes with a Y-split at the end depending on the sub's inputs).

I'm not really a surround guy (more a cheap & cheerful stereo guy) but a second hand AV reciever (with the appropriate inputs - HDMI, toslink/coax) along with some second hand speakers would probably be a nice setup.

Edit: If you want to go with the Logitech Z906 route, why not just buy one of those HDMI audio stripping devices and pair it with an HDMI switch? I'm using this one with my WiiU and it works pretty great.

That way, you could have as many HDMI inputs as whatever switch you get allow (there are some cheap & great switches out there, I've had zero problems with this one) and then just connect the output HDMI rom that into the audiostripper, run toslink to your Z906 and the HDMI out to your TV?

[Fudoh]

why not just buy one of those HDMI audio stripping devices and pair it with an HDMI switch? I'm using this one with my WiiU and it works pretty great.

But this way you only get stereo from the Wii U. As said above, the Wii U can only do surround using Multi Channel LPCM. Using a SPDIF demuxer like this you only get stereo LPCM.

[austin532]

I can't say about "surround-in-box" systems but the easiest way for you should be to connect all your consoles to an HDMI equipped AV receiver instead of the TV. Then you'll just have one HDMI lead from the receiver to the TV for picture. But some TVs also feature an HDMI out, so maybe you also could do it the other way around if that is somehow more convenient.

Yes, this is one of the options I was thinking about doing. My TV does not feature an HDMI out so that is out of the question.

The subwoofer pre-out port is not coaxial, it's an analog output only intended for connecting an active sub to your system and you do that using a normal RCA cable (sometimes with a Y-split at the end depending on the sub's inputs).

Thanks for clearing that up.

I'm not really a surround guy (more a cheap & cheerful stereo guy) but a second hand AV reciever (with the appropriate inputs - HDMI, toslink/coax) along with some second hand speakers would probably be a nice setup.

I know how you feel. I used to have a surround sound setup that would send a 2 channel source to 5 speakers and the sub. It wasn't true 5.1 surround sound but it still sounded nice. Now that I'm more picky I would like to have true 5.1 sound.

Edit: If you want to go with the Logitech Z906 route, why not just buy one of those HDMI audio stripping devices and pair it with an HDMI switch? I'm using this one with my WiiU and it works pretty great.
.
That way, you could have as many HDMI inputs as whatever switch you get allow (there are some cheap & great switches out there, I've had zero problems with this one) and then just connect the output HDMI rom that into the audiostripper, run toslink to your Z906 and the HDMI out to your TV?

I'd rather not because not only will I not get surround sound as Fudoh said but there is more probably chance for lag. The less accessories the better.


I'm still confused as to what exactly I need. Do I need an AV Reciever with either Optical out, Coaxial Out, or HDMI out to get 5.1 because I can't find any that have Optical or Coaxial out. If I did buy a nice receiver do I even need the Logitech setup?

[bobrocks95]

The Logitech system doesn't have HDMI, so it's useless if you want the Wii U in surround sound, which it seems like you do. I'd also say personally that it's pretty overpriced for what it is. The only way you're getting surround sound from ALL your sources is if whatever receiver you buy (whether it's a standalone one you'd normally picture or something more proprietary like Logitech's use of the subwoofer) has an HDMI input, and if your TV has no HDMI output, then the receiver will need an output as well. Then you'd chain it in front of or behind the Framemeister.

[austin532]

So it would be Frameister, PS3, Xbox 360, Wii U > Receiver HDMI Inputs. Then Receiver HDMI Output > TV. Then Receiver Audio Output > Frameister front or behind???

What exactly do you mean by the front or behind the Frameister? I thought the only digital input on the Frameister are the 2 HDMI ports right? What type of output would the receiver need to have?

[bobrocks95]

I meant put the Framemeister either before or after the receiver in your chain of inputs, mainly because I didn't know how many HDMI ports it had before saying that. Since it only has two, you'd plug the Framemeister, PS3, 360, and Wii U into the receiver, then the receiver into the TV to transmit the video. The receiver has no audio output per se, all you need is an HDMI output to get the video to the TV.

[austin532]

Ahh now I see. Is that it? That's pretty simple. So the digital sound would obviously come out of the 5 speakers and subwoofer which unfortunately looks like I will have to buy separately.

Any recommendations on what to look for when buying a receiver as well as speakers and sub? Such as Power, Inputs, (obviously I need at least 4 HDMI inputs), Name Brand? Whether it supports Dolby, DTS, SRS, etc?

After doing some research it seems like Yamaha AV Receivers are the most well received.

[bobrocks95]

Ahh now I see. Is that it? That's pretty simple. So the digital sound would obviously come out of the 5 speakers and subwoofer which unfortunately looks like I will have to buy separately.

Have you not found any sets of speakers for sale somewhere that includes the subwoofer?

Any recommendations on what to look for when buying a receiver as well as speakers and sub? Such as Power, Inputs, (obviously I need at least 4 HDMI inputs), Name Brand? Whether it supports Dolby, DTS, SRS, etc?

If you find a specific model, try and find its manual online to see if it supports Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD, as these are the only pertinent audio updates the HDMI standard has had (other updates to it are far beyond anything you'll be plugging into it for probably a good 10 years). These were added in HDMI version 1.3.

New video formats shouldn't matter as the receiver should pass the signal straight through, though I'd like some confirmation on that myself. I.e., if the receiver has HDMI 1.3 support, could you run a source through it that used 3D video like HDMI 1.4 supports since the receiver is only handling the audio portion? It would make sense that this would be possible, but I don't know enough about the HDMI specification to know (the cables and connectors may physically change between revisions).

After doing some research it seems like Yamaha AV Receivers are the most well received.

Any of the large electronics names these days will be good. Yamaha or Sony are probably the safest choices.

[austin532]

Have you not found any sets of speakers for sale somewhere that includes the subwoofer?

Unfortunately no I haven't. They are quite expensive for a 5.1 setup. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place?

There is something that just dawned on me. Since I am using Component for XBOX and RGB for PS2 how would I be getting true 5.1 surround sound if those connections are Analog?

[bobrocks95]

Unfortunately no I haven't. They are quite expensive for a 5.1 setup. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong place?

There is something that just dawned on me. Since I am using Component for XBOX and RGB for PS2 how would I be getting true 5.1 surround sound if those connections are Analog?

Phat PS2 has a separate optical out, not sure about the slim, but I'd assume it does too. For Xbox you have to buy an HD AV pack as Microsoft called it, it has both component and optical plugs. There was one Monster cable that also included it, but it's probably more expensive.

[austin532]

Alright so I still need to use an Optical cable to get surround sound from the PS2 and XBOX. Thanks for clearing that up as I now need a Receiver that has at least 2 Optical Inputs.

So this now brings up another question. Aren't most Optical Inputs on Receivers only dedicated to certain ports like Composite or Component? I hope not because if that's the case then how would I get Optical sound to come out when let's say for example HDMI port 1 is selected?

Sorry for all of the questions but I want to make sure everything will work out first before I spend $200-$300 on an A/V Receiver plus another $200-$300 on speakers.

[bobrocks95]

Are you routing your non-HDMI video sources through the receiver too? If not, there wouldn't be any scenario where you'd need HDMI selected but use optical audio as the input. If so, then either get an external video switch or get one that has an optical port linked with a component input, since from what I gather your Xbox is the only thing using component and optical.

[neorichieb1971]

double post.

[neorichieb1971]

Well tell us what kind of system you would prefer and what your budget is?

i'm building a 5.1 system at the moment and it isn't cheap for me because although I am cutting corners where possible my standards are high, so that means the prices are as well.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=htib& ... 66&bih=631 Thats HTIB (Home theater in a box). This type of system allows you to do one purchase, set it up and press play.

If you go separates you could cheap it out a bit by buying used goods where you feel you can cut corners and buy new where you feel a no compromise solution is needed. You can also spread the cost over many months starting off with 2 speakers and an amp and then working your way through the rest as you see fit.

I bought the Pioneer 1223 -




I started off with a 2.1 logitech system. For bass and loud sound it was all I ever needed until the PS3/360 era. Its also only $50+ and comes with a phono adapter for 3.5mm jack.

[austin532]

Are you routing your non-HDMI video sources through the receiver too? If not, there wouldn't be any scenario where you'd need HDMI selected but use optical audio as the input. If so, then either get an external video switch or get one that has an optical port linked with a component input, since from what I gather your Xbox is the only thing using component and optical.

At the moment I am not planing on routing any non HDMI video sources to the Receiver. The Non HDMI video sources I currently have set up are plugged into the Frameister. Non HDMI audio sources however I do plan on routing to the Receiver which will be the PS2 and XBOX using Optical. So you are saying everything should be fine?

[bobrocks95]

Are you routing your non-HDMI video sources through the receiver too? If not, there wouldn't be any scenario where you'd need HDMI selected but use optical audio as the input. If so, then either get an external video switch or get one that has an optical port linked with a component input, since from what I gather your Xbox is the only thing using component and optical.

At the moment I am not planing on routing any non HDMI video sources to the Receiver. The Non HDMI video sources I currently have set up are plugged into the Frameister. Non HDMI audio sources however I do plan on routing to the Receiver which will be the PS2 and XBOX using Optical. So you are saying everything should be fine?

If you're just plugging audio into it, everything should be fine.

[austin532]

Well tell us what kind of system you would prefer and what your budget is?

I know most Receivers will give out similar quality but I'm thinking about getting the Sony STR-DN1050, the Sony STR-DN850, or the Yamaha RX-V675 but I won't know for sure until I get a 100% for sure answer about whether or not Optical ports are dedicated to certain inputs because some say assignable and some don't. My budget would be no more than $700 for both the Receiver and 5.1 speakers. Which company do you think is the best when it comes to A/V Receivers?

i'm building a 5.1 system at the moment and it isn't cheap for me because although I am cutting corners where possible my standards are high, so that means the prices are as well.

Same here, I want the best performance at the cheapest price.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=htib& ... 66&bih=631 Thats HTIB (Home theater in a box). This type of system allows you to do one purchase, set it up and press play.

I wish more companies would offer these bundles.

If you go separates you could cheap it out a bit by buying used goods where you feel you can cut corners and buy new where you feel a no compromise solution is needed. You can also spread the cost over many months starting off with 2 speakers and an amp and then working your way through the rest as you see fit.

If I can still buy it new I'd rather do that even if it means spending $100 more. Spreading the cost over many months is a great idea but I'd rather buy them together in a set like what Logitech has to offer.

I bought the Pioneer 1223 -




I started off with a 2.1 logitech system. For bass and loud sound it was all I ever needed until the PS3/360 era. Its also only $50+ and comes with a phono adapter for 3.5mm jack.

If I only had 1 or 2 systems and didn't care about true 5.1 surround sound then I would definitely buy the Logitech Z906 but since I have several systems to worry about I need a receiver and high quality speakers. Any recommendations?

[neorichieb1971]

I can't help you much since I believe your in the USA and I am not.

I can tell that Sony amps/receivers have a reputation for running hot, even in standby mode. You might want to google it and see if the Sony's you suggest run hot or not. If you have aircon in your home and your amp will be able to breathe it may not be a problem.

I bought Pioneer because of the android app. Its a fantastic addition because you can use it in your network as a remote that does everything. Since its on your phone or tablet its obviously backlit so you can use it in the dark. In fact, most Pioneer buyers say its easier to use than the actual remote. The Pioneer does 4K upscaling as well, which futureproofs you on your next TV purchase.

I am a bookshelf speaker enthusiast. I would encourage you to go for 5 bookshelf speakers and a subwoofer. A 10" sub is good enough imho. I am getting the Tannoy TS2.10. But again its not available in the USA, there are some excellent alternatives for you though. Don't you have a Best buy near you? When I was last there they had 100's of speakers and a demo room.

Also, your room dimensions are not mentioned. Sound shouldn't be overkill. If your setup is in a small room having big overpowering sound is not good. You need a good balance.

I would encourage a video switcher in the chain since you have so many consoles. I know Walmart does them.

[austin532]

I'm not going to sweat the small stuff. Anything I get will be much better than what I have now which is using the TV speakers only.

Why would I need a video switcher when I can just plug everything to the receiver?

[MSZ]

Any major Japanese brand will do it, this is my all-Yamaha set-up:

[austin532]

I'm looking for smaller speakers as I have little room to work with. Bookshelf speakers are still too big. I'd like to get small speakers that still pack a big punch like the ones that come with the Sony BRAVIA DAV-DZ170.

[neorichieb1971]

Its very doubtful you can assign all those consoles to a receiver.

If I were you, i'd get a receiver with a front input for the older consoles. If you want all of them on at the same time you will end up with a situation where you are inputting a gamecube into AUX and PS2 into DVD. Maybe I am wrong, I have not plugged my receiver in yet or taken it out of the box, from the back picture I can see the inputs are labelled specific to bluray, turntable, CD player etc.

There are video switchers at Walmart which you can configure to all the consoles that have ever been released Stateside. Can't remember the brand. I had one but I gave it away since I would never use it. But for you it would be ideal.. Depends on your preferences though of course.

[austin532]

Yeah the problem with Sony Receivers it seems like you can't change the name of the Input. I don't see why you can't though in this day and age. I know other receivers just go by HDMI Input, 2,3 etc. Why would it matter what port I plug the PS3 or XBOX 360 into? Isn't the name just there for convenience? Or does it actually have an effect on the Video quality?

Only the Wii U Xbox 360, and PS3 will be plugged in three different ports. The Gamecube, XBOX, and PS2 will be plugged in the Frameister which will use a 4th port. So I see no need to by a switcher. Maybe I'm wrong? If I am please let me know.

Only the PS2 and XBox will be using optical.

This is also why I asked if the optical ports are dedicated to certain inputs because some say assignable and others say AV1, AV2, etc. If anyone knows the answer please let me know.

[mickcris]

Yeah the problem with Sony Receivers it seems like you can't change the name of the Input. I don't see why you can't though in this day and age. I know other receivers just go by HDMI Input, 2,3 etc. Why would it matter what port I plug the PS3 or XBOX 360 into? Isn't the name just there for convenience? Or does it actually have an effect on the Video quality?

Only the Wii U Xbox 360, and PS3 will be plugged in three different ports. The Gamecube, XBOX, and PS2 will be plugged in the Frameister which will use a 4th port. So I see no need to by a switcher. Maybe I'm wrong? If I am please let me know.

Only the PS2 and XBox will be using optical.

This is also why I asked if the optical ports are dedicated to certain inputs because some say assignable and others say AV1, AV2, etc. If anyone knows the answer please let me know.

I use a Pioneer VSX-1020-K which is older than the one neorichieb1971 bought so its probably the same. You can rename inputs and assign the optical inputs to something other than the default on the VSX-1020-K. Not sure if it can be assigned to every single input, but I had no issue assigning mine to where I wanted it.

You will probably have to read the manuals of the ones you are interested in to find out if this can be done on them. The Pioneers are nice. I switched from using Onkyo to Pioneer as they had better recovery from Dolby Digital dropouts I was getting on Direct TV at the time.

[MSZ]

Yeah the problem with Sony Receivers it seems like you can't change the name of the Input. I don't see why you can't though in this day and age. I know other receivers just go by HDMI Input, 2,3 etc. Why would it matter what port I plug the PS3 or XBOX 360 into? Isn't the name just there for convenience? Or does it actually have an effect on the Video quality?

Only the Wii U Xbox 360, and PS3 will be plugged in three different ports. The Gamecube, XBOX, and PS2 will be plugged in the Frameister which will use a 4th port. So I see no need to by a switcher. Maybe I'm wrong? If I am please let me know.

Only the PS2 and XBox will be using optical.

This is also why I asked if the optical ports are dedicated to certain inputs because some say assignable and others say AV1, AV2, etc. If anyone knows the answer please let me know.

My Yamaha receiver is a 2009 model, it got default input names like BD, DVD, Cable, CD etc, but you can still assign them to any ports and rename them to anything you want.