Best Rail Shooters

[Illyrian]

^ No idea, probably. I used to play it in the arcade and a credit used to go a fair while. How would you play it now, Mame? What setup to control the crosshairs?

Oh ok. It was brought up in the credit munchers topic, along with Jurassic Park. That's a good point. I was thinking if I somehow ran into it at an arcade while on vacation. I have played Jurassic Park. It was kind of fun, but the joysticks didn't seem ideal for moving crosshairs in a rail shooter.

I wish Kid Icarus had an all rail shooter mode. Those stages are seriously fun and are good enough to stand on their own.

Rail Chase 1+2 can't be 1cc'd. There are a number of places in both where on normal difficulty and rank it isn't possible to avoid taking damage. They are both still good fun though.

[mamboFoxtrot]

No mention of Panzer Dragoon Orta? That game is fucking rad.

Nice thing about Orta is that it's cheap and compatible with 360s. Too bad my budget's gonna be all kinds of fucked up for quite a while. Hopefully it (and the other Dragoons) are still cheap by the time I can make room for them!


So, has anyone here played any of Taito's Night Striker games? I've only seen these games in YT vids. Night Striker S looks like it has a neat feature where enemy bullets turn red when they get near your plane. Seems like a decent way to deal with the limitations of psuedo-3D sprite scaling.

[Skykid]

G.I. Joe - Arcade - Konami 1992.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhGKcRnJ-6M

Yo Joe.

I salute you!

(Good call).

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Since Smashteroid is no longer around officially apparently, I've bundled a copy I had in my DOSBox folder. Enjoy! If the sendspace link goes down or something, PM me.

[Immryr]

omega boost hasn't been mentioned. i dunno if this is just cause it's not strictly always on rails, but it's a freakin awesome game.

i'm surprised to see people say they like the second sin and punishment game over the original. to me the dodge feature was kind of broken in the second game.

-edit- vanark on the ps1 is also a good star fox 64 knock off if you can get past the stupid story sequences.

[BrianC]

Since Smashteroid is no longer around officially apparently, I've bundled a copy I had in my DOSBox folder. Enjoy! If the sendspace link goes down or something, PM me.

Does it add a rail shooter mode? I wouldn't call the original a rail shooter. The original is a static screen 2d shooter. The lone screenshot on the site looks just like Astrosmash and doesn't show any pseudo 3D on rails gameplay. I'm guessing the game was taken down because they didn't have permission from the owners. I like Astrosmash quite a bit, though I actually prefer the 2600 version, Astroblast, due to faster gameplay and paddle support.

[Koa Zo]

vanark on the ps1 is also a good star fox 64 knock off if you can get past the stupid story sequences.

Unrelated or independent of this thread I started playing Vanark for the first time last week.
It seems quite promising, yet I have no idea how to start the second level.
I'm stuck on foot annoyingly walking between the briefing room, training room, and hanger. God damn it seems they ruined a good game with the walkabout story elements.

[BIL]

omega boost hasn't been mentioned. i dunno if this is just cause it's not strictly always on rails, but it's a freakin awesome game.

One of my favourite 3D shooting games ever, and along with Silent Bomber a killer latter-day PS1 action showcase. Main campaign alone is great for time/score attack sessions, or just tearing shit up, or both. Bonus missions + replay mode creates an infinite playable mecha anime toybox. I think of it more as an arena shooter, the two tunnel stages aside.



Heaven.

[Mischief Maker]

Aurail.

...Is not a rail shooter.

Further argument over the definition of "rail shooter" ensues.

Where were you when I got in that argument over the definition of JRPG?

[Specineff]

So, has anyone here played any of Taito's Night Striker games? I've only seen these games in YT vids. Night Striker S looks like it has a neat feature where enemy bullets turn red when they get near your plane. Seems like a decent way to deal with the limitations of psuedo-3D sprite scaling.

I had the Sega CD version, which felt a bit choppy, but was still playable. It also featured your choice of original or remixed soundtrack with better instruments than the arcade board. It feels like a poor man's version of Space Harrier, not necessarily a bad thing. (Though we know the actual poor man's version of Space Harrier is 3D World Runner. )

[Koa Zo]

It's worth noting, MDCD Night Striker is one of the few games supposedly compatible with the XE-1 AP analog controller.

[JBC]

I love Sin & Punishment 1 but last night I finished easy mode with 20+ continues & a combo high of 930+ hits. There is no default option for 'hard' mode, instead 'normal' is hard mode & I struggle to even get past the halfway point. Lack of balance is the only thing I could deduct points from the game for. Despite some off-site claims, the length is fine for a rail shooter - my time was 53 minutes.

Sin & Punishment 2 improves on everything the first game had to offer but the first is still very worthy. I wish that Nintendo & Treasure would adapt the first game to use the WiiMote +nunchuck setup of Star Successor, but I imagine this would make it too easy on easy mode, as easy is already too easy.

I don't really get the comment about the dodging being broken in 2, as it's much quicker & more reliable than in the first game. I think your invincibility window is slightly wider as well. I also can't complain about the length. More bang for your buck is not a bad thing, especially since the game can be played a chapter at a time.

[Immryr]

as much as i like sin and punishment 2 i much prefer the original. the dodging is broken in number 2 as it's possible to just spam dodge and never get hit, and some sections it relies to much on spamming dodge just to get through.

i also think that, while pretty difficult to get used to at first, the control scheme works great on a gamecube pad, i've only ever played the wii version of the first game - so i haven't tried it on the original n64 controller. i generally play the sequel with the gamecube pad too.

[JBC]

I would like to see a video of this spam dodging to never get hit tactic, because that doesn't work for me.

[Obiwanshinobi]

I would like to see anyone's scores earned with GameCube pad in S&P2.

I love Sin & Punishment 1 but last night I finished easy mode with 20+ continues & a combo high of 930+ hits. There is no default option for 'hard' mode, instead 'normal' is hard mode & I struggle to even get past the halfway point. Lack of balance is the only thing I could deduct points from the game for. Despite some off-site claims, the length is fine for a rail shooter - my time was 53 minutes.

Now imagine it could be structured like OutRun 2006 where, despite its plenthora of content, most runs (except for the endlessly looping Time Attack) seem to last for no longer than 10 minutes each. Still a plenty of bang for your buck... all doable in sittings shorter than single S&P2 chapter. You know it could be branching like OutRun.

[JBC]

You know it could be branching like OutRun.

Eh, maybe in part 3. I know Treasure doesn't usually do sequels but when they do they change it up enough to not be repeating themselves & juding by the recent interview the devs seem to have a pretty deep love for the series. Maybe we'll get a third & that's how they'll do it. As it is though, I find S&P2 to be perfect. I often do one stage a day for practice & put it down.

https://www.nintendo.co.uk/Iwata-Asks/I ... 14087.html

[guigui]

I agree on the fact that S&P2 is a lot of rolling, and rolling, and rolling. Definitely not possible to get through the game without getting hit just by rolling though.

As much as I hate the boss itself, I love how the Waterfall Slug boss has you completely rethink your dodging technique. Maybe they should have added more of those instead of those numerous aimed patterns that are, indeed, simply dodged by rolling in circle around the screen.
Also, maybe interrupting the gun flow during the roll could lessen its power.

Anyway. I also had a blast with S&P1 and could finally credit it, normal mode, after about 30 hours of play. Sending missiles back and switching controller type to be actually able to jump were the keys.

[MrMonkeyMan]

The dodge is too powerful in Sin and Punishment 2 because it's way to easy to abuse by mashing it and spinning in circles. Plus you can keep shooting while dodging so there's really no downside to dodging, it's just moving quickly with lots of invincibility frames.

In the original when you roll your gunfire is interrupted during the roll, so you deal less damage. You wanted to avoid rolling as much as possible by jumping or walking out of harm's way to take out enemies as fast as possible.

[Pretas]

I love Sin & Punishment 1 but last night I finished easy mode with 20+ continues & a combo high of 930+ hits. There is no default option for 'hard' mode, instead 'normal' is hard mode & I struggle to even get past the halfway point. Lack of balance is the only thing I could deduct points from the game for. Despite some off-site claims, the length is fine for a rail shooter - my time was 53 minutes.

S&P1 is a very balanced game and a fair challenge, considerably more so than its sequel. S&P2 is much easier for most of its extended duration (largely thanks to the all-powerful 360-degree roll dodge and devastating charge shots), but has a handful of glaring choke points where avoiding damage seems based more on luck than skill, some of which are just one-off gimmick variety scenes. Everything in S&P1 has a very evident pattern and usually an obvious solution--the difficulty lies in being forced to consistently implement these solutions in succession without fail, while adapting to the sometimes disorienting camera angles and movements (though this problem is far more pronounced in the sequel). When you figure out how all the pieces fit together, it can really feel like Alien Soldier 3D.

[JBC]

Maybe 'balance' is the wrong word. I meant difficulty 'curve' between Easy & Normal (Hard) modes. It's one extreme to the other with no in-between. I love the game though, & always have.

[JBC]

I wanna make the argument that the few times the game lets you roll a circle around the screen are well timed & put in place in order to give you a breather but keep you moving. It's also possible to f those moments up if your nerves are wracked from the chaos you've been dealing with. Case in point - that Gryffon thing in stage 5 launches two large energy orbs that travel in only a couple patterns. They are cleverly designed to make you react when you shouldn't if you know that the bottom center of the screen is the safe point for 95% of the attack. You can just sit there & pound away but you have to combat your own nerves to not roll right into danger.

The dodge mechanic is a vital layer in itself to the gameplay of S&P2 & keeps the player on their toes through the experience. You have to question your own instincts & judgement or you'll get wiped out trying to play it safe.

[Nana]

As a huge fan of rail shooters and a long time Space Harrier enthusiast, I've come to the conclusion that Sin & Punishment 1 is the best rail shooter of all time, and also quite possibly the best game of all time.

As such, Sin & Punishment 2 is unfortunately worse in every regard. The only thing that I like more is the final boss theme, which is unfortunately just a reused song in S&P1. It's not just about the LENGTH of the game. It's about the pacing. S&P1 makes sure that every single second of the game is engaging and unique, and it's simply not the case with S&P2. Patterns get repeated way too long, and the stages just drag on and on. Some of the enemies are total bullet sponges too. In terms of difficulty, S&P1 is simultaneously both harder while also more precise and fair. It's always clear what you're supposed to do and where you went wrong, whereas I feel certain parts of S&P2 are more luck-based and simple trial and error.

I guess a good way to put it is by the time you've finished the stupid tutorial stage of S&P2, you've already killed 10 bosses, killed off the main character, drowned tokyo in blood, and transformed into a monster in S&P1.

@circuitface: Normal mode is not "hard" mode. You unlock hard by clearing normal, which is not all that bad, especially if you know what to expect from having beaten easy.

[JBC]

You sure it's not just because it's newer? S&P2 is 10x more like Space Harrier than 1. You don't float around the screen in 1.

[Nana]

Yes I'm sure.

I only brought up Space Harrier because I loved it. I'm not judging the game's worth based on how similar it is to another game.

It's worth noting that I also love Panzer Dragoon Orta and Rez.

EDIT: I also played S&P2 before S&P1. I didn't care enough about it to even finish it until I had played S&P1, in which I promptly thought "Wow! How could I have ever thought the sequel to be boring? I need to go play that again!" and then played it from start to finish. It was alright.

[JBC]

It's pretty much better in every way but lacks the hyper-anime style art & opts for a more French-ish kinda-Moebius look, though still distinctly Japanese. Much more mature, though still heartwarming. I'm glad to see so much love for Orta on this board. I haven't been here in awhile & didn't expect that. Never played Rez but have heard good things. The game's style looks like vector graphics so that's cool, but I always figured it would have some really bad techno soundtrack.

[Nana]

If you consider Ken Ishii to be bad techno, then yes, you'll hate it.

I like the art styles of both S&P 1 & 2. Except for the chibi characters.

[JBC]

Except for the chibi characters.

I get what you mean, but at least they don't over-sexualize them like most stuff. They were pretty good about that in both entries.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Come on now, S&P2's got too bad character animations to be considered irrelevant considering how much you get to see them. It is not a beautifully animated game. Neither are the character designs much good. I can forgive most of that, considering the amount of content, but those things aren't any better for my forgiveness.

And what "chibi" charecters there are in S&P2 anyway?

[Pretas]

Orta was rather a disappointment when I finally played it last year. It's serviceable, but it's just kind of there. There's far fewer memorable setpieces and moments compared to 1 and Zwei, and the transformation mechanic adds a needless, artificial layer of complexity that serves mainly to weaken any sense of immersion. The soundtrack is hugely diminished in quality from the Saturn games, and there's scarcely anything that fleshes out the setting or narrative in an interesting way.

Rez is a bad rail shooter, but a great demoscene project/music video compilation.

[Nana]

And what "chibi" charecters there are in S&P2 anyway?

I don't disagree with you. And I just meant the character design in general. Chibi might be a bit of an overstatement though.

I actually agree with you too. Rez was the first rail shooter I played, and I loved the hell out of it (and still do). But I won't deny the gameplay is lacking having played more and more in-depth games.

I also agree about Orta, though I still like the game quite a lot too. It's honestly very similar complaints that I had for S&P2, but I do overall find it more entertaining to play through.