So I just got scammed out of my Unusual TF2 hat.

[cave hermit]

It was an unusual troublemaker's tosselcap. worth $100 real cash. Guy offered to send me $90 in steam cash for it. I accepted. He took the hat and ran. I think I need to lie down now.

[trap15]

Hurr hats

[hail good sir]

I had a dream in between hitting the snooze button this morning that I sold trap15 an Espgaluda superplay DVD. I don't even know if such a thing exists.

[Specineff]

A screenshot to have a bit of insurance would have helped. Sympathies.

[drauch]

I woke up covered in sores and boners.

[Jonst]

Don't feel bad,I sold a faulty dangun feveron pcb for £40 thinking it would be highly unlikely the guy would get it going again (according to a previous inspection of the board)...the guy emailed me within half an hour of receiving it to let me know he got it working...
Also,just sold a comic book,I thought there was little interest in,it went on ebay for £10,after a conversation and some late research turns out it was worth around £800! Fuckety fuck.
My fault really,should have a checked things out more thoroughly...live and learn.

[Bananamatic]

add me if you're EU so we can play

fuck hats, the game is good

[cave hermit]

sure; PM me your steam name. I like to play on probablyaserver alot, so you might bump into me there.

[Ed Oscuro]

I got scammed out of my classic TF2 by Valve.

[Bananamatic]

I got scammed out of my classic TF2 by Valve.

it's still the same game
(except for the bloated hardware requirements)

[Ed Oscuro]

I guess the old weapon loadouts play as well as they used to, and the much-vaunted instantly readable character outlines aren't changed much either, but there's just so much new shit to be aware of from all those new weapons and items. Besides I pretty much swore off online FPSes five years ago (or so).

[Bananamatic]

Most of the new weapons are either extremely situational, crutches for bad players or utter crap

[drauch]

I got scammed out of my classic TF2 by Valve.

it's still the same game
(except for the bloated hardware requirements)

Except it looks like shit and has one of the worst online communities around.

[Bananamatic]

Except it looks like shit and has one of the worst online communities around.

Someone hasn't played League of Legends.

people on tf2lobby are generally pretty cool(despite being play2win) and the little kids don't run their mouths

[cave hermit]

The guy just made his profile private as well; it's up to steam support now. Pretty slim chance I'll get my hat back given I lost it by being a fucking idiot, but at least he'll get banned in some way. I hope.

[Koa Zo]

Thunder Force 2 hat?

[Ed Oscuro]

Guy offered to send me $90 in steam cash for it.

haha holy shit though

brb buying soem bitcoins

[Ruldra]

Reminds me back of my Ragnarok Online days, if you weren't a merchant and tried to sell stuff via chat, people would try to scam you in every way possible. Never trust anyone.

[EllertMichael]

Zed Blade Online?

[Gozer]

Can't you just put hats etc. on the marketplace? Why risk doing a trade?

[Cagar]

Can't you just put hats etc. on the marketplace? Why risk doing a trade?

This... there's a marketplace on steam for these items, and it works extremely well.

[cave hermit]

what

[cave hermit]

Also, the bastard has apparently already off-loaded my hat on someone else.
I really hope I hear back from steam support soon.
I don't even care if I get my unusual back; I just want the guy banned.

[Ed Oscuro]

Quite often I am all like "fuck the process if it means you don't get reasonable treatment" but this isn't like having somebody try to manipulate the PayPal / eBay timeout periods - there is literally a trading mechanism set up and you didn't use it. Even I know there is a kind of trading system set up on Steam. I am kind of worried that if you do get what you want, it means that Steam can ignore that process if they are convinced of a sob story (which may or may not be true) without hard evidence.

Although it seems very unlikely somebody would set up a scam or tried to ban somebody they didn't like by gifting a $100 hat and then claiming it was meant to be traded, Steam support can't determine for sure who tried what in this case. They also can't arrange for a monetary penalty because you didn't go through that system.

[Jonathan Ingram]

I think I need to lie down now.

That`s certainly one way to deal with it. Alternatively, you could try to just shut the full cup already:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN2WzQzxuoA

[drauch]

You dun goofed, boy.

[Ed Oscuro]

I think I need to lie down now.

That`s certainly one way to deal with it. Alternatively, you could try to just shut the full cup already:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN2WzQzxuoA

That's pretty funny, but doesn't really have to do with much (even if this did feel like a blog post topic). No reason he has to look the other way - that would be just letting the capitalist pigs have their way, after all!

[Jonathan Ingram]

No reason he has to look the other way - that would be just letting the capitalist pigs have their way, after all

Cave hermit tried to profiteer from a piece of digitally distributed information, one that by definition isn`t subject to scarcity unless intentionally forced into it by "copyright" holders, but alas the transaction didn`t work out the way he hoped it would. He is the "capitalist pig" here, very clearly. I wouldn`t share my toys with him.

[Ed Oscuro]

But everybody in that group is there by choice - people outside that system are affected by externalities mainly - probably minor ones, just the same costs of running 'net and power that we're causing by having this conversation. About the question of whether such systems are bad designs for society - obviously tackling that question would involve questioning the system fundamentally.

I agree with your point about artificial scarcity and copyright holding, although you have to admit the elegance of the solution in creating some wealth for content manufacturers while also getting a bunch of other people involved. (Using "elegance" in a very strict sense here.)

Also, unlike traditional copyright, particular TF2 hats don't seem like the sort of thing that will be litigated 100+ years from now, even if there is a market the goods may just go poof. The "you aren't buying any physical good, so you don't have any recourse to blame us if the system shuts down" angle seems to protect Valve here.

About whether Cave Hermit is a bad person - well, I don't know, I think the problem just solves itself if you use the process.

[Jonathan Ingram]

My comment was half in jest. If you accept a system`s set of rules, then obviously you must abide by them irrespective of whether you find the underlying fundamentals ethically abhorrent or not. Nobody forces you to join the group, you do it out of your own volition. In this sense, whoever scammed cave hermit out of that hat is very clearly in the wrong nor can it be held against cave hermit for trying to sell it.

I agree with your point about artificial scarcity and copyright holding, although you have to admit the elegance of the solution in creating some wealth for content manufacturers while also getting a bunch of other people involved. (Using "elegance" in a very strict sense here.)

The whole providing reward for content makers is definitely the tricky part and short of enacting laws that oblige copyright holders to pass over their existing IPs to the public domain while setting strict expiration dates for the rights to the new ones, I don`t think a solution could possibly be worked out from within the confines of the current economic system that could be considered beneficial to both sides.

Also, unlike traditional copyright, particular TF2 hats don't seem like the sort of thing that will be litigated 100+ years from now, even if there is a market the goods may just go poof.

With no economy in place to support the transactions, the hats would turn into mere entitlements that you can`t profit from regardless of their rarity and demand for them.