NESRGB board available now

[evil_ash_xero]

I believe "improved" is the FCEUX emulator palette. Which is a great palette. That's one of the primary reasons I was so hyped for this board(among other reasons, obviously).

[yxkalle]

Here's a small follow-up to my switchless palette mod:
This mod enables you to change palette on the fly using only your reset button, no need to cut holes into your precious Nintendo console. It works like this: A press shorter than 0.5 seconds causes a normal reset of the console. A longer press causes the palette to change every 0.5 seconds in a rotating fashion. When you let go of the reset button the palette is saved to the internal EEPROM of the PIC and is loaded by default the next time you power on your console. That's pretty much it!


As you can see the intended place to mount the PIC is in the four through-holes where you select palettes. The chip actually goes on the backside of the board. A resistor of 1-10k is placed between pin 10 and +5V and acts as a pull-up resistor to make it possible for the PIC to read the current state of the reset button.

Here's the points where you connect wires from the reset circuit of the Famicom. The NES is a bit different, I will have to look into it. The most important part is that the reset button no longer has direct contact with the CPU, this is done by cutting a trace. The resistor depicted here is the same as the one I mentioned earlier.


THE FOLLOWING SECTION IS FOR PEOPLE WHO OWNS A PAL TV WITH SCART INPUT:
If you want to, you can connect pin 5, 6 and 7 of the PIC to SCART pin 16. This will make your TV auto switch from RGB to composite when the fourth/no palette is selected. Please use PPUV as video sync if you want this to work correctly, i.e. don't cut the video trace going to the multi out if you got a AV fami, otherwise you're just going to get a black picture when this palette is selected. I can make a version without this "fourth" palette if it's asked for, and I can see why some people would want that. I don't really recommend using the auto-switching function on the AV though, cutting the 5V rail to the multi-out was a pain in the ass. 12V (SCART pin 8 ) 4:3 switching voltage will have to come from pin 3 on the multi-out, so you'll have to solder a wire from the input of the voltage regulator (7805) and make sure to feed your famicom atleast 10 volts. I don't really recommend doing all this, but I wanted it that way on my AV...

Anyway, here's a bad (sorry) picture of my installation:

As You can see I used a small decoupling capacitor (100nF) but this is completely optional and doesn't make much of a difference.

If you want any added functionallity or need help modifying my code, just ask and I will try to help if I got time over.

WARNING!
Be very careful if you make any changes to the code as there is a potential risk of putting 5V on the palette pins/holes. If you're not planning of using the SCART auto switching "feature" (or you can change the resistor inside your SCART plug, but that makes it bad to use on any other Nintendo console) you can run the PIC on 3.3V instead, just feed pin 1 with 3.3V instead of 5. I've tried it and I RECOMMEND it if you're not 100% sure of what you're doing.

Thanks.

[sean49938]

I believe "improved" is the FCEUX emulator palette. Which is a great palette. That's one of the primary reasons I was so hyped for this board(among other reasons, obviously).

The improved palette is my default setting at this point. The colors on the NES always felt a bit drab to me and the improved palette is just that, an improvement!

[thebert]

I was able to get rgb from a multi-out to xrgb-mini using the snes jp21 cable from retro-console-accesories without having to modify the nesrgb or the cable. I only mention, because I was reading that people were removing caps from the nesrgb for euro-scart, but this appears not to be necessary for jap-21.

[evil_ash_xero]

Hey guys, I'm getting a cable for my NESRGB. I'm getting an SNES cable.

The person asked me if I need capacitors in the cable, as they heard you're not supposed to have any with the NESRGB.

A quick reply would be great.

[mickcris]

I was able to get rgb from a multi-out to xrgb-mini using the snes jp21 cable from retro-console-accesories without having to modify the nesrgb or the cable. I only mention, because I was reading that people were removing caps from the nesrgb for euro-scart, but this appears not to be necessary for jap-21.

It still works with the caps in both places, but makes the capacitance less than what its supposed to be. Mine has the caps on the board and in the retro-console-accesories euro scart wired cable and it works fine. Its the same cable as the jap-21, just pinned differently.

I don't think the actual euro scart cables for PAL regions have capacitors in them to begin with.

[yxkalle]

I don't think the actual euro scart cables for PAL regions have capacitors in them to begin with.

PAL GameCube cables have capacitors, SNES cables does not.

[ApolloBoy]

For anyone who's planning to install one in a Twin Fami, this is what my install looks like:

[evil_ash_xero]

Dear friends....do I need to tell this person to take the capacitors out of the Euro SNES SCART or not?

They're waiting on my response.

[mickcris]

Dear friends....do I need to tell this person to take the capacitors out of the Euro SNES SCART or not?

They're waiting on my response.

It should work either way. If you are planning on using it on an SNES also, I would leave them in. If you are just going to be using it with a NES, then its probably better to remove them. Mine has them still in the cable and it still works fine.

[evil_ash_xero]

Oh, and we're talking about DC blocking capacitors here?

[ApolloBoy]

Oh, and we're talking about DC blocking capacitors here?

Yes.

[evil_ash_xero]

THANKS!

[keropi]

Keropi: taking the image flicker out, how do you like the image quality on that LG? I can't imagine the scalar inside the TV would make the image look very good. Wouldn't most people that spent this kind of money on a 30+ year old system use it on original CRT or use pro scalar (xrgb) which will probably solve all your problems?

I know it's not the solution you want to hear it ultimately be the direction you'd want to pursuit.

I hear you.
But the SCART RGB image on these lcd sets (the whole LH3/4/5K series) is almost like having a pc connected with HDMI and play on a emulator. It's THAT sharp and lag-less. Especially with the NESRGB it's just stellar, way better than everything I've put on it.
It's kinda hard to believe it because most lcd screens have crappy scart quality (even other lg models like the monitor/tv I am writing this atm) and is best suited for video stuff, but I did buy this specific model after a month of searching in various AV forums. The specs are great too, a 2ms 1080p panel, pc-mode hdmi, can play mkv from it's usb port, 100hz...
Just zoom this pic , it doesn't do it any justice since it's a 3MP phone pic but you can clearly see there is no blurring, lame filtering or color bleeding. And that pic is with all post-processing turned OFF.



Do I enjoy it more than my 2001 14" trinitron crt on my desk? Nope, but it does offer great comfort when you sit 2 meters away on your couch and have a 37" gaming screen for all your consoles
I've had the xrgb and xrgb2 in the past, the xrgb2 was sold because of that tv. The framemeister on the other hand is the future but for now I can't justify 300e on it when I get such a nice result.

I'm off to try the LM1881 circuit

[CkRtech]

Good luck, keropi. I know you have been hanging in there trying to get the NES + RGB out to agree with your LG. Let us know how it goes.

[Slymick]

Just tested the original Famicom 3DS with all the 3D games they all work fine on my NEC CRT via csy-2100.

[keropi]

CkRtech thanks for the encouragement!

Sadly the LM1881 circuit didn't help either. I will post a video in a while...


@yxkalle
thanks for the extra info!!! Can you please also post a pic of the cut you made on the reset trace? or draw it in a pic of the mobo or something?



edit: I'm having troubles making a good video (phone is crappy) so I'll just report:

With LM1881 using the V point as sync:
- Gimmigk! stops flashing , I see that the upper part of the screen where the flashing occurs has a tiny bit less brightness and there is a pattern introduced on the whole screen, diagonal lines to be exact.
- MegamanIV Ring Man stage: diagonal lines pattern + flashing

With LM1881 using the Y point as sync:
- Gimmigk! flashes as before
- MegamanIV Ring Man stage: flashes as before

If needed I can make a video. Kinda losing hope this will ever work.

[viletim]

keropi,

What kind of power supply are you using to power your Famicom?

[keropi]

several actually...
3 generic:
Two of them deliver 2.0A at 9v and the 3rd 2.8A at 10v (this one has crystals to select output voltage)
and this:
since this was one of the first things that crossed my mind so I tried with a genuine ROLAND psu that is meant to power midi modules (9v, 1.5A).
None of the psus affected the problem in any way.

Tim, do you want me to send the mobo+nesrgb as I have it now so you can check it?

[viletim]

The symptoms suggest there is low frequency noise on a power supply rail somewhere... Though I suppose the noise can't be external - it's synchronous with the video.

You replaced the 220u cap on the motherboard to make the board fit. Did you do this for both of your consoles?

[keropi]

Yes, both consoles have new caps atm , I am editing to explain it better...

On the first console that I own for ~5 months now I did a recap the week after I got it. I used Lelon caps , but worked just fine with the stock composite the machine provided. Did some Everdrive heavy gaming sessions as well
So when I got the NESRGB I ditched the 220uF Lelon one and put there a Nichicon. I got the problem and replaced it with a Chemicon. I was getting it still so I replaced all caps with Chemicons. Still have the original 220uF cap.

On the second console that I tested yesterday I only changed the 220uF one with a Chemicon and all the rest were the original ones. I got the problem so I just replaced all of them , I was meaning to do it either way...

[viletim]

Sorry, but I can't think of anything else to try...

I don't think I would be able to find anything from looking at the console on it's own. At this point I suspect the basic problem is the TV doesn't like the slightly off video timing that the Nintendo produces. The NESRGB doesn't alter the video timing in any way. Maybe it's right on a threshold of some kind.

[keropi]

But couldn't you measure the signals or something and make them more compatible/normal ?
If it was just one set yes, but a whole line of tvs working fine with stock composite but don't like it as rgb sync?

[viletim]

It's interesting that it only happens to blue skies... If you swap the blue and green wires over does it make any difference?

[mufunyo]

I believe "improved" is the FCEUX emulator palette. Which is a great palette. That's one of the primary reasons I was so hyped for this board(among other reasons, obviously).

The improved palette is my default setting at this point. The colors on the NES always felt a bit drab to me and the improved palette is just that, an improvement!

The only thing that bothers me about the FCEUX palette is the greys which have incorrect brightness and I think dark teal which has the wrong hue (shows up as navy blue). I posted an improved palette a few pages back which takes the composite palette (with the correct hues) and maximises the saturation similar to the FCEUX, but without disturbing the balance between colours. Sadly it didn't get a lot of attention. I'll see when I order my NESRGB if Tim will let me pay extra to have him flash a custom POF with that palette.

[keropi]

It's interesting that it only happens to blue skies... If you swap the blue and green wires over does it make any difference?

just swapped, now the gimmick! sky is a green-ish color but still flashes on that map screen, in-game it's fine at least at the start...

[markfrizb]

I recently learned a lesson about interlaced video on the snes console ....
Short story - in my snes to jamma adapter pcb, one console would work perfect, others wouldn't - screen would blank out.
The original generation 1 console PPU had interlacing sync and that was why my monitor would blank put (not a Sony Pvm). Gen2 and newer snes consoles, the PPU was revised to not interlace.... So I'm told.

So my question is... Does the NES have interlaced video also? If it does, could that be affecting some rgb sync timing. Does Gimmick interlace?

Oh, the solution to the blanking interlaced video was to seperate the combined sync and wire them seperately to their respective H-sync and V-syncs.

[Fudoh]

I recently learned a lesson about interlaced video on the snes console .... Short story - in my snes to jamma adapter pcb, one console would work perfect, others wouldn't - screen would blank out. The original generation 1 console PPU had interlacing sync and that was why my monitor would blank put (not a Sony Pvm). Gen2 and newer snes consoles, the PPU was revised to not interlace.... So I'm told.

you were told crap. More likely a composite video vs. composite sync issue....

[markfrizb]

I recently learned a lesson about interlaced video on the snes console .... Short story - in my snes to jamma adapter pcb, one console would work perfect, others wouldn't - screen would blank out. The original generation 1 console PPU had interlacing sync and that was why my monitor would blank put (not a Sony Pvm). Gen2 and newer snes consoles, the PPU was revised to not interlace.... So I'm told.

you were told crap. More likely a composite video vs. composite sync issue....

He's a video engineer that worked for some of the big name arcade game manuf with the proper tools to boot. I trust his o-scope and skills. A double vertical sync pulse = interlaced and the snes test cart outputs interlaced.

Edit: and no, it wasn't a confusion of sync types.

[nesfreak]

With LM1881 using the V point as sync:
- Gimmigk! stops flashing , I see that the upper part of the screen where the flashing occurs has a tiny bit less brightness and there is a pattern introduced on the whole screen, diagonal lines to be exact.
- MegamanIV Ring Man stage: diagonal lines pattern + flashing

With LM1881 using the Y point as sync:
- Gimmigk! flashes as before
- MegamanIV Ring Man stage: flashes as before

If needed I can make a video. Kinda losing hope this will ever work.

Sorry keropi, had no issues running on my 50" LG Plasma.

Pictures.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/667 ... 174404.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/667 ... 174513.jpg

EDIT: Correction, no issues but the shitty input-lag of course!