GD: DOJ system and strat

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:40 am

well, after you kill the power-up ship (by holding laser) you just carry on holding it in the same place to kill the turret coming onto screen (make sure to go to C shot as soon as you hear the explosion). if it's before that, what you need to be doing is lightly tapping C once a second while in hyper state, so as not to kill the small tanks too quickly

one other weird thing about going from ddp to doj is that collecting power-ups temporarily breaks your laser. bear this in mind

it's important in stage 1 at that segment, and also stage 2 midboss. very annoying

also, forgot to say, after you kill the big turret on stage 1 near the start, you need to tap C on the small tanks at the left. sorry, forgot about that

captpain · Post by **captpain** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:52 am

jpj wrote: one other weird thing about going from ddp to doj is that collecting power-ups temporarily breaks your laser.

This also happens in DDP.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:09 am

okay, but it wont really break your chain in ddp because of how quick it is - whereas in doj it can still mess you up even half way through stage 2

Ruldra · Post by **Ruldra** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:24 am

jpj wrote:well, after you kill the power-up ship (by holding laser) you just carry on holding it in the same place to kill the turret coming onto screen (make sure to go to C shot as soon as you hear the explosion). if it's before that, what you need to be doing is lightly tapping C once a second while in hyper state, so as not to kill the small tanks too quickly

My laser never connects fast enough with the turret behind the ship (it takes a few moments to appear onto screen for me), so I guess I'm just killing the tanks too quickly. Gotta practice some more...

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:26 am

along with my point about the power-ups, maybe it is that you aren't high enough up the screen. you should be about half-way up

otherwise it wont connect

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:51 am

jpj wrote:okay, but it wont really break your chain in ddp because of how quick it is - whereas in doj it can still mess you up even half way through stage 2

Actually it's quicker in DOJ and it does break your chain in DDP.

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:53 am

Ruldra wrote:
jpj wrote:well, after you kill the power-up ship (by holding laser) you just carry on holding it in the same place to kill the turret coming onto screen (make sure to go to C shot as soon as you hear the explosion). if it's before that, what you need to be doing is lightly tapping C once a second while in hyper state, so as not to kill the small tanks too quickly
My laser never connects fast enough with the turret behind the ship (it takes a few moments to appear onto screen for me), so I guess I'm just killing the tanks too quickly. Gotta practice some more...

Make sure you're doing that part with an hyper. Right after you kill the power up ship (you can destroy it as soon as it appears), stay in place but enough to the left that you hit the first helicopter that arrives next. This is key to keep your chain. After you hit that helicopter, stay in place until the turret dies then happily chain the rest. This part might not be doable this way without a hyper. Superplay videos use a hyper there anyway so I guess it's for the best.

Ruldra · Post by **Ruldra** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:28 am

I don't use hypers on the first stage. I save them all for the beginning of stage 2, then hyper the tank hangars at the end for a massive hit count. Plasmo did this on his run and he ended up with 94 mil before the boss. I think you get more points this way.

But then again, japanese players use hypers on stage 1, so I'm not sure which approach is better score-wise.

Plasmo · Post by **Plasmo** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:01 am

If you use 2 hyper in stage 1 and another during the bossfight your rank is already beyond good and evil when you reach the second boss. It's probably worth a bit more points, if you can handle the massive rank. Seeing it this way, I was actually playing for survival lolz.

LtC · Post by **LtC** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:49 pm

Plasmo wrote:If you use 2 hyper in stage 1 and another during the bossfight your rank is already beyond good and evil when you reach the second boss. It's probably worth a bit more points, if you can handle the massive rank. Seeing it this way, I was actually playing for survival lolz.

What if you use the bomb before you get the bomb from end of stage 2? How big difference does it make from 1xMAX to 2xMAX. Lets say being able to handle all stage 3 no miss no bomb but you have to bomb on stage 3 boss.

Damn... I really need to start trying score runs myself instead of short 5-10min sessions every now and then.

Plasmo · Post by **Plasmo** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:19 pm

What if you use the bomb before you get the bomb from end of stage 2? How big difference does it make from 1xMAX to 2xMAX. Lets say being able to handle all stage 3 no miss no bomb but you have to bomb on stage 3 boss.

That's a very good idea I didn't think of before, the point loss should be minmal. I'll used it next time I play DOJ, thanks! I think ISO does the same in his B-L replay on the PS2 disc if I remember correctly.

And just for the record:

Code: Select all

Laos

Stage 1:
28,5mill  -  843 Chain (2x -1-hyper used)

Boss 1:
31,8mill  - 1757 Hit   (-1-hyper used)

Stage 2:
106,6mill - 2209 Chain (-2-, -5-hyper used)

Boss 2:
110,1mill - 1153 Hit   (-1-hyper used)

Code: Select all

NOA

Stage 1:
21,4mill -  539 Chain (no hyper used)

Boss 1:
21,9mill -    7 Hit   (no hyper used)

Stage 2:
94,8mill - 2314 Chain (-5-, -4-hyper used)

Boss 2:
95,6mill -  169 Hit   (no hyper used)

LtC · Post by **LtC** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 1:28 pm

Plasmo wrote: That's a very good idea I didn't think of before, the point loss should be minmal. I'll used it next time I play DOJ, thanks! I think ISO does the same in his B-L replay on the PS2 disc if I remember correctly.

I just watched the one again. He uses both of his bombs to reduce rank -> goes hyper -> suicide -> 2x MAX from the bomb that was hovering around ->Hyper kill

I remember the first time I watched it I was wondering what the fuck was he doing but I get it now. Genious

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:33 pm

Guess I'll do the same. It's a little stupid though, I guess they just made the game too hard so you have to figure out stupid strategies to deal with it.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:19 pm

if we're being picky, all of all the stages in both loops can be done without hypers. it's just far far more difficult. and that's TAC on the B-L replay on the ps2 game disc, but he sucks at doj ~_~;

nice to see this game getting plenty of attention again

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 6:57 pm

I've just watched the B-L replay that's included on the PS2 data. I'm amazed at how hard this game is compared to DDP. Stage 5 in this replay is just amazingly difficult for a 1st loop @_@ This is probably as much harder compared to DDP than DDP is harder compared to DP. But this time it's TOO HARD !

Also I think I'll switch to B-L because it looks cooler :p

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:04 pm

have you played ketsui yet prom? me and GP think that game's 1-5 is harder even than doj

although i guess with ketsui you don't have dynamic rank to deal with, but still...

i actually do pretty well in 1-5, even starting with 4 or 5 hypers, but i can never connect the chain from the 1st midboss and into the honeycomb section (can do it in practice mode, but rank is lower). i once spent two whole days playing that section over and over trying to decide at which point i prefer to release the hyper. at the start of the midboss? the middle, or the end? i was driving myself crazy

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:05 pm

Yes I've played all "non-Raizing" Caves. I've never made it to stage 5 in Ketsui, I always died in stage 4 :p For what I've seen of it Ketsui's difficulty is a lot more balanced than DOJ. There is more often hard stuff to dodge, the scoring doesn't screw you for a frame off in your timing, and it doesn't suddenly get overly fast. Overall I think I like it a lot better.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:46 pm

yeah, doj is a man's game

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:13 pm

It's funny, but I have pretty much equal chances of getting to stage 4 of DOJ, stage 4 of DP, and stage 5 of DDP. Clearly, there's something wrong with me.

Also, I find stage 4 of DOJ more-or-less straightforward survival-wise. It's mostly basic herding; the only moderately annoying part is not flying into those spray guns' barrages while doing so. Must be a hell to chain correctly, though.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:14 pm

sorry if i've already mentioned this, but 1-4 is without a doubt, the *hardest* stage to fully chain. HFD makes me sick, because he makes it look so easy. especially the part where you first get the turrets that travel on the diagonal platforms. he does it even without hypers. first time i saw that (in one of the trailers) i was really impressed, then mocked myself thinking it was clearly 2-4. turns out it wasn't

what a beast. but yeah, if you can do the first three levels with full chains (well, not chaining in and out of the st3 midboss, but you know what i mean..), better to survive for stage 4, and concentrate on learning stage 5. which is where i'm still at ...

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:28 pm

What do you think B-L's worth in this game ? Do you feel it's shot might be too weak for 2nd loop ?

I could play B-E but I like B-L's style more. Maybe it's stupid but I value style the most when I choose a ship/character :p

LtC · Post by **LtC** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 10:52 pm

PROMETHEUS wrote:What do you think B-L's worth in this game ? Do you feel it's shot might be too weak for 2nd loop ?

I could play B-E but I like B-L's style more. Maybe it's stupid but I value style the most when I choose a ship/character :p

You're on the right track. True men choose that way... but only kids think B-L is cool, B-E is the man's way to go.

But for B-L isn't the biggest issue about getting the shot totally crippled if you die. You basically become handicapped since only the laser will deal decent damage anymore and your move speed isn't really the same as A-L or A-E's.

By the way what's the best approach to go for early stage 2 when you need to continue the chain after the first tank (B-E)? I could use some tips on how to handle that with the easiest way, that one is definately my biggest obstacle in chaining the first 2 stages.

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:08 pm

your biggest problem playing type B generally will be that the shot is quite wide, and you can sometimes kill popcorn enemies too quickly (when you want to slowly tap C and keep some alive for chaining). B-L has a better bomb stock though, so it is a good choice. but as said, your biggest problem for the 2nd loop will be the slow movement speed. i was really shocked when i first started reaching the 2nd loop. not just the increase in bullets, but also the increase in *speed* (and i was obviously at lowest rank

)

if style is your thing, how about A-E but play as the 2P side, that way your ship and laser are neon blue

....

and here is a 1-2 B-E video, if it helps:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLpcbV9Z ... annel_page

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:34 pm

isn't there some kind of bonus/penalty for playing as P2 ? In DDP when I realized there was a penalty for P2 compensating for the bonus in a pretty drastic way I quickly switched back to P1.

LtC · Post by **LtC** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:38 pm

PROMETHEUS wrote:isn't there some kind of bonus/penalty for playing as P2 ? In DDP when I realized there was a penalty for P2 compensating for the bonus in a pretty drastic way I quickly switched back to P1.

The colors for the P2 ships in DOJ look hideous, isn't that enough of a penalty?

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Thu Feb 12, 2009 11:42 pm

there isn't a penalty as far as i'm aware. and while i agree that the type B ship doesn't look that good on P2 side, i think the type A ship looks pretty cool actually.

a bit like WIZ using the 2P ship in ikaruga, i think it would be quite unique. if you don't do it prom, i think i will actually ..

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:55 am

I just watched the superplay run on the superplay DVD that comes with the PS2 game... Fucking incredible stuff... I had no idea this game got so hard and players this good. It's about as impressive as Futari Ultra in a different way. Futari ultra is more about ultra dense but rather "slow" patterns, this is about high, high speeds. I can't believe this @_@ It's like 10 times harder than anything in DDP.

I don't know for sure but maybe I'll switch back to A-E, I can't imagine handling the speed with type B anymore indeed, and shot power will be too weak with B-L or A-L I guess. Too bad, I like the circling options much more ;]

jpj · Post by **jpj** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:25 am

the black label dvd is even better, if you can believe that. he only loses 1 life in the whole process of beating both loops and hibachi with A-E

three trailer videos for it here if you're interested

oxoid · Post by **oxoid** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:44 am

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=TGAP4U&view=videos

has a bunch of A-L videos, though they are all in training mode iirc.

third_strike · Post by **third_strike** » Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:53 am

http://img312.imageshack.us/img312/2088 ... one0ri.gif
is it the correct hit box for A-E?
I really would love now about the exact spot in one image of ship in game.

Cool!