Game Genres I Don't "Get"

[Edmond Dantes]

So lately, in my quest to dominate my game library, I've realized there are some entire genres of games I... just plain don't really understand.

I mean, I know with side-scrolling platformers or shmups its "practice your hand-eye coordination, work on your timing and reflexes, learn the layouts and patterns." But there are some genres where I just plain don't know WHAT skills I'm supposed to develop, or what I should be looking at or for.

I'm hoping someone here can give me a heads up.

So, here are the genres in question:

Beat-em-Ups (Final Fight, TMNT Arcade games, etc.)

This is pretty much the Ur example of a genre I just don't get. Should I be trying to get good at spotting wind-up frames and learning how to react, as in a fighting game, or am I supposed to learn tactics to deliver hits without getting hit myself... are reflexes important or is strategy... just, I'm not sure where to begin. In most Beat-em-Ups, I just mash buttons and wind up quarter-feeding through them because I'm not even sure how to get good at them.

Flight Sims (particularly combat ones, Wing Commander particularly)

I get the basic idea--"kill them before they kill you"--but it seems a lot goes into that which so far hasn't clicked. For example, I constantly struggle to even face towards my enemy to fire on them, and usually by the time I do they're passing in front of me or overhead and I have to turn yet again. It's worse when there's more than one enemy aircraft... I'm not even sure how I'm supposed to deal with both. I get the feeling there is some very basic concept that I simply have not figured out.

Any advice at all would be appreciated.

[SuperGrafx]

Tower Defense games.
WTF does anyone find "fun" about these types of games? Sooo boring!

[Edmond Dantes]

SuperGrafx, that's not what this topic is for.

[Ed Oscuro]

Tower Defense games.
WTF does anyone find "fun" about these types of games? Sooo boring!

I used to think the same thing, but I've found a couple entertaining ones. You could say practically the same thing about RTSes - a good "tower defense" (which doesn't really have anything to do with defending a tower much of the time) game doesn't keep you sitting around wondering what to do or waiting to make moves. You get the strategy component of an RTS is a more accessible and more easily planned format. Anyway, as usual, I'd suggest looking at Bloons Tower Defense 5 which has pretty quick games and a lot of options for longevity. I've been playing that game a while and it still throws me little puzzles to figure out each day with the Daily Challenges.

But y'know if you just want to slag off the genre I'm not going to stop you. I think the purpose of the thread is to try to learn something and expand your horizons a bit, and hopefully have some fun at the same time. Edit: Yeah, Edmond said what I was thinking too.

[trap15]

SuperGrafx, that's not what this topic is for.

THIS THREAD IS ABOUT ME AND NOBODY ELSE. OTHERS' OPINIONS ON RELATED THINGS DON'T COUNT. ANSWER ME.

[Ed Oscuro]

Don't think that's what he meant. See my second paragraph above.

[Skykid]

SuperGrafx, that's not what this topic is for.

It isn't? Not sure I get the thread then, I thought it was about genres you don't perceive to be enjoyable and can't understand the attraction for.

I'm too much of a strict arcade gamer, so that makes quite a few genres unappealing. I really don't get racing sims like Gran Turismo. Tarting around for hours tuning cars and getting licenses is so dull, I just want to Ridge Race and powerslide.

[Edmond Dantes]

Edit: See post below.

[Ed Oscuro]

Instead of everybody repeating the same thing over and over, just look at this:

Any advice at all would be appreciated.

WTF does anyone find "fun" about these types of games? Sooo boring!

One's asking for a discussion, the other is trying to preempt it. I worded it differently than Edmond but I had pretty much the same reaction. Let's have a discussion, not prideful boasting about what genres are "below" us.

p.s. HOGs are my waifus

@ Topic: Edmond, I'd like to contribute, but I'm pretty clueless about brawlers and sims in general, so I'm just waiting for somebody else to chime in, too. I know we've got some brawler / 1v1 fighter fans here, and there should be at least one or two sim fans. Maybe even somebody likes train sims.

[Edmond Dantes]

Thanks, Ed Oscuro.

I want to emphasize one thing: This topic was created to solicit advice. The OP basically says, "I want to improve in the following genres, and I need someone to point me at where to begin."

Bashing things you don't like was NOT the intent.

[Moniker]

I don't really get beat-em-ups either. Well, kind of. They're sort of the middle ground b/w fighting games and action platformers. Understanding your move-sets, enemies, prioritizing, etc. The ones I really enjoy, though, either veer towards slash'em'ups like DMC, or genre mashups like Adventures of Batman & Robin for Genesis.

Flight Sims, at least space-based ones, mostly died out for pretty good reason. In open space, it's hard to make compelling level design. You basically just need to get behind an opponent, match speed, and let rip. Easy or hard, it doesn't tend to be compelling. Certainly, good things can be done with it; I remember some really fun missions in the Wing Commander & Tie Fighter series. Fighting Death Stars, and the like. Been ages, though. I've been kinda-sorta been thinking of looking into the Blazing Angels series, just to see what's what.

Driving Sims tend to be about the love of the cars, getting into the nitty gritty of customizing your perfect ride. It's sort of love-it or leave-it.


I personally don't get whatever genre Sonic the Hedgehog is. Cause it ain't a platformer. I've played through nearly all the 2D titles and I still don't know.

[pestro87]

Beat-em-Ups (Final Fight, TMNT Arcade games, etc.)

I don't consider myself to be particularly good at them by any means, but I'd say that the following things are key based on my experience:

- Play for survival (don't try to finish off the enemies as fast as you can by spamming attacks. Instead deal one or two "safe" attacks that you know that the enemy is less likely to counter and then run away and rinse and repeat)
- Try to target one enemy at the time (unless you are certain that your attack will not be countered/blocked by at least one of the enemies in the group)
- Don't rush right all the way as soon as the GO-arrow appear (wait for each enemy/group of enemies to appear and take them out. Otherwise you may end up getting swarmed)
- Always use attacks that the specific enemy type is less likely to counter
- Positioning is key. Enemies are more likely to do certain attacks when you're at a specific distance from him/her (horizontal and vertical). You can use this to bait enemies to attack you and then you hit them with a counter.

This is just off the top of my head and some of those points may be obvious but the short answer is:

learn tactics to deliver hits without getting hit myself

and

strategy

[Edmond Dantes]

Beat-em-Ups (Final Fight, TMNT Arcade games, etc.)

I don't consider myself to be particularly good at them by any means, but I'd say that the following things are key based on my experience:

- Play for survival (don't try to finish off the enemies as fast as you can by spamming attacks. Instead deal one or two "safe" attacks that you know that the enemy is less likely to counter and then run away and rinse and repeat)
- Try to target one enemy at the time (unless you are certain that your attack will not be countered/blocked by at least one of the enemies in the group)
- Don't rush right all the way as soon as the GO-arrow appear (wait for each enemy/group of enemies to appear and take them out. Otherwise you may end up getting swarmed)
- Always use attacks that the specific enemy type is less likely to counter
- Positioning is key. Enemies are more likely to do certain attacks when you're at a specific distance from him/her (horizontal and vertical). You can use this to bait enemies to attack you and then you hit them with a counter.

This is just off the top of my head and some of those points may be obvious but the short answer is:

learn tactics to deliver hits without getting hit myself

and

strategy

THANK YOU!

THANK YOU SO MUCH!

See guys, this is the kind of response I was looking for. Is there a way to give people a positive feedback score for posts?

[Moniker]

THANK YOU!

THANK YOU SO MUCH!

See guys, this is the kind of response I was looking for. Is there a way to give people a positive feedback score for posts?

*Bites tongue so hard it draws blood* DON'T TEMPT ME, FRODO!

[TLB]

Tower Defense games.
WTF does anyone find "fun" about these types of games? Sooo boring!

SuperGrafx, that's not what this topic is for.

THIS THREAD IS ABOUT ME AND NOBODY ELSE. OTHERS' OPINIONS ON RELATED THINGS DON'T COUNT. ANSWER ME.

SuperGrafx, that's not what this topic is for.

It isn't?

no

Not sure I get the thread then, I thought it was about genres you don't perceive to be enjoyable and can't understand the attraction for.

jus sayn G, if i make a thread and im axin fo hep i dont wan a buncha dipshits spammin bs so noboy reads tah thred mang, yadig? shemps seems 2b good at dat doe dawg








RTSes are full of shit that I've never bothered to internalize and keep track of over the course of a 10-20 minute war, so if anyone wants to have a go at CoH or SC you'll win. I suck. I'm not sure I'll ever "get" them (even though I do "get" them in the analytical sense).

[EmperorIng]

My experience with flight-sims is that you pretty much have to be into the whole experience of "this is what it's like to fly a real aircraft!" thing. My one friend and coworker has his pilot's license, so he actually doesn't like series like Ace Combat, because it's too "arcadey" for him. More up his alley is IL-2 and the like.

But basically, you have to have the right equippage (a joystick), and be willing to learn the ins and outs of the flight combat simulator.

And with Wing Commander, you really play that game for the story more than anything else.

[ciox]

Football Managers.

[Mortificator]

I've thought of making a topic like this myself, though more to solicit complaints instead of advice. It's probably because of that article Special World wrote. For a lot of players, shmups are a genre they don't get, so I've just been curious what kinds of games aren't got by the people that Understand Scrolling Shooters.

I don't get 4X games. Stuff like budgeting and administration feel like work. There are various diplomatic solutions to conflict, which are preferable in real life, but I like my video game wars to be climactic battles of annihilation. And a Civ-like takes so long... I almost always lose interest.

Still, I've picked up a couple of recommendations for Alpha Centauri and Sins of a Solar Empire, so I might give one of those a try.

[Ganelon]

First, be aware that there are no one-size-fits-all answers for why people enjoy genres. Also, I don't view non-educational games developing any skills as benefits; I'd view that as added side effects. If you're trying to learn something instead of feeling or appreciating something, then I

I enjoy the structured but progressive fighting nature of beat-em-ups, but only strict belt-scrolling beat-em-ups, preferably without an emphasis on combos. Basically, beat-em-ups provide the sense of progress that fighting games lack. You get a lot of enemies and stages to beat around with weapons and items and spice up the action. A lot of beat-em-up fans (esp. those who stuck with Capcom's later games and IGS productions) seem to appreciate the technical details of juggling enemies for as long as possible; I'm not one of them. As with shooters, the goal is to 1CC these games but it'll usually require quite a bit of time and monotony (repeating the same precise pattern of moves for each knockdown; there's usually leniency but that requires even more learning time). Long ago, I decided that the time necessary to 1CC most of these games wasn't worth my while.

Flight sims give me the freedom to pilot machines that I likely never will in real life to perform some semi-realistic exploration or shoot down some targets. Who as a kid hasn't wanted to be an ace pilot? As Moniker mentioned, you're supposed maneuver around to get a good shot on your opponents. It makes sense that if you're not throttling and tailing effectively, then it'll feel like you're just passing each other over and over. There was a time I was a big fan of the Jane's Combat Simulations series but somehow, I've lost that interest along the way.

Driving sims provide semi-realistic driving of cars that I would likely never bother to drive in real life. I actually don't want to do any customization at all; I just want to "experience" the various cars, hence why car variety and realism is so important in these games.

I consider Sonic to be a sidescroller like all other 2D sidescrollers. There's no major difference in my eyes (on a side note, I've never heard a convincing argument as to why a "platformer" should or could be kept separate from "sidescroller"). I appreciate the magical zone design most. There's such a variety of eclectic and innovative environments. The colorful visuals and motivating music enhance the atmospheric effect. I definitely don't play the games for speed.

For 4X games, I get a huge sandbox to plot around. I only enjoy historical or fantasy situations though. Testing your mettle as a leader is an exciting opportunity for those who want to see how they would fare as leader. One of the best parts is that the game isn't 100% about combat; you can usually focus on other empire/county/city leadership. I don't understand real life settings—SimCity for example—for 4X games. To me, the minute detail necessary in creating structures feels more like work and that someone should be looking for a career as a city planner instead.

As for a genre I don't get, endless runners seem to be sidescrollers with less control. I don't see the point.

[Pretas]

(on a side note, I've never heard a convincing argument as to why a "platformer" should or could be kept separate from "sidescroller")

It seems simple enough to me. "Sidescroller" is a catch-all term for any side-view action game with horizontal scrolling, which includes several genres. A platformer is a sidescroller with an emphasis on jumping across platforms of varying elevations.

As for a genre I don't get, endless runners seem to be sidescrollers with less control. I don't see the point.

They don't require any thought, effort or time investment, which is why they're so popular with smartphone users looking to fill the empty moments of their day. Of course, they ignore the fact that Deathsmiles is also a thing you can play on your phone.

[boagman]

Don't rush right all the way as soon as the GO-arrow appear (wait for each enemy/group of enemies to appear and take them out. Otherwise you may end up getting swarmed)

I cannot emphasize or agree with this more. Whatever way the game wants you to scroll the screen, do so in the absolute *smallest increment possible*. If the GO-arrow or whatever reappears, *slightly* hit the joystick in that direction until the next single enemy comes onscreen. Sometimes it'll be a group of enemies, and *as soon as* an enemy or group of enemies starts to show itself, BACK THE HECK AWAY from that side of the screen. Take care of said enemies as efficiently as possible (it's best to try to take them on one-at-a-time), and for heaven's sake, don't be afraid to use a wall or other cover to back up to so as not to allow yourself to be attacked from behind. Same can be said for the outside of the screen, and in certain games, use the different levels or dimensions to keep your distance from enemies so you can fight as safely as possible (example: in TMNT, there are certain places where you can jump to a higher level).

I *love* a good beat-'em-up...and hate a bad one just as much. I have issues when something's grossly unfair in certain games (i.e. Sodom in Final Fight), but I appreciate fairness as much as possible.

For me, the genre I don't "get" is any sort of RPG. To me, they're all just awful rubbish...like Skykid, I'm an arcade-game lover through and through.

[KennyMan666]

"tower defense" (which doesn't really have anything to do with defending a tower much of the time)

"Tower defense" means building a defense with towers, not defending a tower. :V

That said, it's a genre I... I can't say that I don't get it, because it was somewhat fun playing multiplayer tower defense maps in Warcraft III back in the day, but I've grown so tired of them by now, it's such an overdone genre. The White Laboratory is the first one in age that's actually looking innovative and interesting.

Myself, I've never been much of a fighting game player. Games like Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat and so. I don't know if it's that I don't "get" them, I just get the feeling that they're really not much for me. Traditional fighters, at any rate - I like the more oddball fighters more, like the Touhou fighters, or party fighters like Smash Bros.

[evil_ash_xero]

Sports games(unless you count Punch Out)
First Person Shooters
Sandbox games
Point and click games(like Myst)

Not a huge fan of fighters or racing games. There are some exceptions though.

Beat 'em ups is a genre that has aged poorly, to a good degree. But stuff like SOR 2 and TMNT IV are still tons of fun today. Diamonds in the rough, I guess.

[Cagar]

Anything that is/can be controlled with a mouse or touchpad/screen.

[Pretas]

Saying that 2D beat-em-ups as a whole have "aged poorly" would suggest that your experience is primarily limited to games like the Double Dragon series and Konami's lesser beatemups (i.e. TMNT, X-Men, Simpsons), which have gained lasting followings only due to nostalgia and licensing. I think anyone of taste should find that games like The Punisher, Alien vs. Predator, Denjin Makai II, Shadow Over Mystara, and Battle Circuit are just as enjoyable and playable now as they ever were, thanks to their far more refined mechanics.

It's also odd that you mention Streets of Rage 2 instead of 3 as being less dated, since it lacks a run command. This quite obviously dates the game, as running became a universal standard of the genre soon after.

[Ganelon]

It seems simple enough to me. "Sidescroller" is a catch-all term for any side-view action game with horizontal scrolling, which includes several genres. A platformer is a sidescroller with an emphasis on jumping across platforms of varying elevations.

That's not the way most folks who use the "platformer" label—even from the old game magazine days—define them. Most sidescrollers starring anthropomorphic characters are immediately labeled a platformer whereas a run 'n gun game (e.g. Contra) is almost never labeled as a platformer despite having abundant platforms.

Sports games allow players to actively connect with their favorite sport at any time of the day. That appeal doesn't connect with to me either but there's a big difference between not getting the point at all and getting but not appreciating the point. I think folks are starting to veer towards the latter now. That, or a lot of folks here needed to be reminded that a lot of games are played for interactive atmosphere and not primarily for mechanics.

EDIT: That last sentence made no sense without the "not."

[Casey120]

I really like scrolling Beat 'm Ups, the timing when to place your attack is the key to get far .

A Genre I don't get ( Like ) is turned based rpg's, why reduce action game play to card play levels ?

[Pretas]

That's not the way most folks who use the "platformer" label—even from the old game magazine days—define them. Most sidescrollers starring anthropomorphic characters are immediately labeled a platformer whereas a run 'n gun game (e.g. Contra) is almost never labeled as a platformer despite having abundant platforms.

Why can't "run 'n gun" be a subset of the platformer genre, just as platformers are one of the several types of sidescrollers? Considering the names used for these categories, it only makes logical sense.

[Ed Oscuro]

"tower defense" (which doesn't really have anything to do with defending a tower much of the time)

"Tower defense" means building a defense with towers, not defending a tower. :V

It does these days, but the original Flash-based "modern" tower defense games were about defending a point at the end of a linear path as enemies moved across a screen...that point represented by a castle tower. The Wikipedia article for Tower Defense even cites Rampart as an early game in the genre.

Anyway, amusing how quickly this has devolved into the usual semantics / historical detail squabbles D:

[TransatlanticFoe]

Flight Sims (particularly combat ones, Wing Commander particularly)

I get the basic idea--"kill them before they kill you"--but it seems a lot goes into that which so far hasn't clicked. For example, I constantly struggle to even face towards my enemy to fire on them, and usually by the time I do they're passing in front of me or overhead and I have to turn yet again. It's worse when there's more than one enemy aircraft... I'm not even sure how I'm supposed to deal with both. I get the feeling there is some very basic concept that I simply have not figured out..

You need to work out how to use the radar and targeting systems - spot nearby threats, track their trajectory and manoeuvre yourself into position. You'll often need to use tight turns and speed changes, particularly if the target is up close, otherwise you'll lose it from your field of view and have to work the radar again. Effective use of targeting systems is needed too - you should use "target nearest enemy" and "cycle attacking targets" (i.e. anyone locked on to you) as your primary methods to prioritise targets (excluding specific mission objectives).

I'm too much of a strict arcade gamer, so that makes quite a few genres unappealing. I really don't get racing sims like Gran Turismo. Tarting around for hours tuning cars and getting licenses is so dull, I just want to Ridge Race and powerslide.

The problem I have with typical racing sims these days is that they focus on licences, challenges etc. but you don't get any real racing. You usually have cars on track with massive performance differentials so either end up with linear races or horrendous rubber-banding to even it out. Not a single proper championship mode with practice, qualifying and more than 10 rounds to be seen. Unless you're playing a licenced game with physics balanced between arcade and simulation (not satisfying fans of either), and no proper damage - thanks but no thanks Codemasters.