Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Sumez]

I think Yamane's "signature style" post SOTN is probably a lot different from what you'd consider it before then.
The Rocket Knight/Sparkster tracks that she made probably represents her pre-castlevania stuff best, and I think it's very recognizable once you start paying attention to it.
C.O.W-Boys of Moo Mesa especially has her fingerprints all over it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VMc0-9U8i4

[BrianC]

I like her music for Batman RotJ GB quite a bit.

[Sima Tuna]

I was just bumming around in Huntdown and figured I'd play arcade Misconducts with the other two characters. Got both 1ccs on a single attempt at each. Sawyer's run was about the same difficulty as Anna's.

Spoiler

Mow Man though...

I'm turning on Mow Man, even more than I was before. His gun is shit and his throwable, contrary to what I said before, is not as good as I thought. He throws three of them and they recharge fast, but they don't penetrate mobs. 90% of what kills me in Huntdown is a super dense mob that overwhelms me when I have nowhere to go. The other 10% are instant death pits and bosses. Mow Man is the worst because his pistol does jack shit for damage, which is the worst situation with overlapping enemy hitbox spam. You end up dealing a small amount of damage to every enemy instead of putting them down. His sustained fire damage is way lower than Anna's on account of mash limitations/not wanting to cause myself physical injury from mashing and his throwable has that same unfortunate property to spread damage sometimes. It barely CCs better than Anna's axe (which doesn't CC at all), because the kunai take usually 2 to kill one enemy. So you get one dead enemy and one injured enemy off a single kunai throw, which is shit. Anna gives you one dead enemy but with the advantage of crazy shot angles, including fullscreen/offscreen snipes. Her throwable is the weakest for mobs, but arguably the best for bosses and her gun is better than his. His pistol damage is so low that I played Misconducts route pretty much using all the special weapons instead of his standard gun and spamming kunai as if they were his primary fire weapon.

Ultimately, Mow Man being the weakest doesn't matter that much. At the end of the day, you can still pick up overpowered weapons from dead enemies and use those guns to kill everyone, including bosses. I had an easier time on Mow Man compared to Sawyer, but only because I ran Mow Man 2nd and had warmed up by then. My strats aren't character-specific. But I just hate mashing. Huntdown is a game balanced around not having autofire/turbo assigned on a custom controller. Because a lot of weapon pickups would be worthless if you could autofire without delay or whatever. But Mow Man's playstyle is fucking annoying. Keeping up mash tempo while dodging, jumping, crouching, sliding, throwing kunai etc is annoying. Or maybe you got a really good dodge/jump tempo going on a boss, only now you have to MASH MASH MASH on the boss' vulnerable delays, instead of throwing out a single, graceful tap or hold. Sawyer's great because everything goes down in one hit. Anna's great because you can settle in behind cover to shred an army without using any special weapon ammo, or you can burstfire bosses at odd angles with her grenade. But Mow Man doesn't give you anything except wrist pain.

None of the bosses were particularly rough this time around. TNT Randy is a pushover. Nadja is cool but only tricky in her final phase. Murdoch has a few safe spots or you can missile launcher cheese to phase skip. Taxman is so patternized that you can't fail once you've got the route figured. Unholy Goalie is my favorite boss, but not that difficult. If you bring the Asteroid Smasher in with you, you barely even have to play.

Spoiler

There's an optimal standing position for his two forms and once you know them, you won't die.

Phase 1: Stand and shoot when he's between moves. Stand on a platform when he charges, jump over him and dash down-diagonal. Shift between platforms when he's using the minigun.
Phase 2: Literally just duck any time he's not using the minigun. Jump to the platform and then over his head when he charges. He's too slow to get you.

Having finished up the 1ccs on Easy and Normal, guess I have to really dig into Heatseekers again. Sigh. Back to the grind of guided missile traps in stage 2 and Sonny's Mystery Mobile ambush.

[Stevens]

Yeah I installed reWASD for auto fire. I had to pay, but I don't regret it. Mow Man sucks without it. Not fun.

Sawyer is still my favorite, his boomerang just shreds mobs. Even if you miss it recharge is quick.

I actually think if you miss it the recharge should be as long/longer than the axe simply cause if you catch it you can spam it.

[copy-paster]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1290178467

Dracula XX clear with walkspeed patch by someone from Discord, slightly weird because the walk cycle still use vanilla instead of Rondo and only available in CUM LABEL. There was huge slip up at Dullahan and anything Clocktower+boss, but it's more of the game being shit.

[Sima Tuna]

I had a really close run at Arcade Heatseekers in Huntdown. I'm starting to figure out a few things. For a while there, I was just dying to random shit over and over and feeling like I was actively getting worse at the game. But my last run made it to Ringo Road Rage's boss arena, but died right before reaching him. If I could have just baaaaaarely made it into his fight, I know I would have cleared. Because Ringo is a bitch.

Spoiler

My run was really clean up until Sonny. I had maybe one death in stage 2 (hard not to, for me, with all the pits and missiles) and maybe another random death. I lost most of my lives dealing with Sonny Rooster's Monster Truck Madness. But I learned a lot. You can get an LMG earlier in the level, and I highly recommend it over Ol' Painless. The minigun is helpful, but the spin-up time is a killer. With the LMG, you can hold right and tap the shot button as needed. One of the enemies also drops a melee weapon. If you don't have an LMG, take this. It lets you run into groups and mash them down while maintaining your momentum. A lot of the enemies in the monster truck section fight you at melee range. Sonny went relatively smoothly, but I had lost too many lives by then. I think I have his final form nailed now. You just have to go slow and stay 2 platforms vertical to him at all times, which forces him to jump vertically and neutralizes his swinging arms' reach. I still hate the fireballs that fall during this fight, because it's impossible to predict when one drops in front and screws you. I needed to grab some hp and suddenly there were TWO fucking fireballs right on top of the fucking health drops! I died before the fire could fade away.

YOU DESTROYED MAH GITTAR
AND YOU DESTROYED MAH RIDE!
NOW...
I'M GONNA DESTROY YOU

I'll probably clear Heatseekers in my next couple of attempts. I feel like it's only a matter of time now. There's only one roadblock section holding up my runs, and once I get that consistent, it'll be smooth sailing and on to the No. 1 Suspects.

Spoiler

Overseer is the secret hardest boss of these attempts. He takes so long to kill and you really need a flawless Overseer level to have resources for Sonny Rooster. He's piss-easy but also a huge pain in the ass since you can barely damage him. It's easy to get overconfident and lose a life on the bumper cars or some other stupid shit.

Edit: Sure enough, I got the Heatseekers 1cc with Anna Conda on my very next attempt. Played nearly perfectly until Sonny's Monster Truck Madness, died once and then killed him easily. I had so many lives by the time I reached Ringo that nothing could stop me. Only route left is Numbah Wan, baby!

Update: Got up to Yuudai in the Numbah One route. Previous runs all died on the twins, so I think I've definitely improved while grinding out the Heatseekers 1cc.

Spoiler

There are a lot of little gameplay tricks that I've been optimizing. You learn where to step, when to dash, when to dash out of a jump etc, and what weapons are the best. I pretty much value shotguns over every other weapon type for Anna. Why? Piercing. Piercing is what she doesn't have. The LMG is great, but most assault rifle type of weapons are only a slight upgrade from her Beretta. Not necessary, in other words. The really valuable guns are the ones that add a new dimension of strategy. So, grenade launcher, autoshotty, blaster, asteroid smasher... These guns change how you play and they let you not care about densely-packed mobs. Even a simple pump shotgun can shred a small pack of goons in a single shot. Way better than the Uzi, but it's given to you about as frequently.

[XoPachi]

So.
I've never actually seen the OP of this thread until just now.

I'm fucking dying. The effort...

[BIL]

Haha, cheers. Due a refresh sometime, along with the long-procrastinated big index update. Probably next month.

Other than the at-long-last ACA release of Thunder Dragon 2, I've been playing the hell out of Crime Fighters 2. Absolutely splendid experience. It's incredible how polished Konami's early-90s arcade efforts became, in comparison to their late 80s ones. Just like Sunset Riders to Contra, CF2's handling is entire galaxies beyond the original's. I have a lot to write, but I'm gonna see if I can nail my target 2ALL Nomiss this week, first.



^ dig the "F U" graffiti Lots of great tags in here, just like CF1. "HAND OF DOOM," "THE DEATH SQUAD," "VINCE IS INNOCENT PIGS!!!" Fuckin rawwwk.

My only complaint - I wish you could Loop 2 Start by maxing the difficulty ala Super Contra. Just like that game, while Loop 1 is a little soft, Loop 2's judiciously fattened-up crowds are perfect. Enemy HP and value damages are wisely untouched in Loop 2, and boss battles largely play the same, but there's just enough added crowd pressure to fill out the stages. Stage 4's waterfront actually resembles CF1's equivalent (I love all the callbacks to that game, both mechanical and aesthetic - you can really feel the affection), though while it's suicide to take on that one's full crowd without careful wave partitioning, CF2's vastly better handling lets you demolish the fuckers in one shot. (quite literally, if you're good with the gauge ).

I've noticed at least one difference between ACA CF2 and Vendetta - knives and other blade impacts have a bit of blood splat in JP, which becomes "sweat" in US. Even in Japan, the effect is tiny enough you might not even notice it. Still, it's one argument in favour of ACA Vendetta using the JP ROM, rather than simply changing its cutscene language.

The big obstacle to a Nomiss, in both loops, is the boss revenge finale. While CF1's is just asinine, CF2's is characteristically redemptive. Buzzsaw+Caveman aren't too bad, in fact there's a 50% chance you'll get a speedkill on the latter, though I can't guarantee it as of yet. Even sans that, they're both very vulnerable to off-axis PKs.

Rude Bros+Ohsugi can be murderously difficult, unless you target Freddy/Igor for immediate destruction. With all bosses having 50% HP, he won't survive long. Once you're free of his fiendishly hard-to-escape 8way attack, it's just a matter of basic positioning; don't get between Frank/Creature (love the CV1 reference) and Joe. Neither has shit for defense, PPPs will go unanswered every time - but Joe's got a tricky backstep, and his Kusarigama tieup can see you eat Frank's uppercut for a sudden death.

>a typical Rude+Ohsugi run

Faust+Kurt absolutely stomped me at first, specifically their nasty crowd support, but I'm gradually learning to hang. Carrying in Dinners from the previous fight is a huge help, but the main thing is to just keep moving - you can lose tons of HP off tiny mistakes. Once I'm past these guys, I'm blowing apart the second loop, so I imagine it's mostly a matter of perfecting this gauntlet.

Jeeze, this was meant to be a quick post. I keep going any longer I'm gonna start bustin' out the GIFs! I might post a bit more later tonight on system basics... in short, this is Technos, not Capcom; your PPPs and KKKs aren't guaranteed, at all, but must be supplemented with consistent Y-axis footwork. Where CF2 comes into its own is combining command knockdowns with Kunio stompings. It's all about flooring enemies, then kicking the shit out of 'em. Everybody's the same height on the ground.

Interestingly, CF2 actually shares the same "marked for deathblow" system as SNK's earlier, tragically flawed Datsugoku aka Prisoners Of War. Once an enemy's at 1HP, you'll start launching combo enders at them by default. This can be awkward when you're going for a quick jab only to get the haul-back Falcon Punch, to use Boomer as an example. Fortunately those attacks (again, at least Boomer's) are easy to connect, with his K finisher having particularly excellent reach (will catch Ohsugi out of his backstep, unlike the P finish).

I gotta say Boomer's my favourite hands-down. I find Blood mostly interchangeable, but less intuitive. Hitting [K] to ground-pound enemies just feels weird, and his stand PK lacks Boomer's timing-friendly windup (although, maybe it comes out faster? need more time there). And as a big Technos fan, it just feels right to have a [P] [Jumpkick] [K] button layout.

I like Hawk's comically violent stand PK haymaker, good for keeping dangerous enemies well away. Sledge seems like the runt of the lot, though just like Rastan, I gotta respect that Green Dolphin action.

Homie be like

Spoiler

GRAPPLES + THROWING: It's all about proximity. As shown in the Rude Bros+Ohsugi demo above, I can bust out Boomer's shoulder toss on reaction now, using its i-frames and rear-guard to flatten would-be backstabbers in the heat of battle. Just get into overlap and hit [P].

Annoyingly, though, his extremely powerful headlock seems to trigger in a tiny space beyond that - I find it's very easy to overshoot and accidentally rear-grapple enemies by mistake. For now, I've had the most luck moving into range from the Y-axis. Buzzsaw's a good target for this. Note that some bosses are throw+grapple-immune, namely Caveman, Frank Rude and Faust.

Good ol' Murphagator seems to set up headlocks via floor stomps, in his Boomer speedrun (he's got Very Hard Nomisses with all four characters, as expected of the mad chap). I'm getting by ok on just throws, but this might be worth careful scrutiny. Headlock really demolishes enemy lifebars.

Cripes, can't help myself. Great beltscroller, I see why it's so beloved. While I regard CF1 as a salvage project, loaded with personally irresistible traits but just as many quirks and flaws that I'm forced to caveat, CF2's a bonafide genre highlight.

[Sima Tuna]

Murphagator has a lot of videos about Vendetta/Crime Fighters 2, so you can always check there for strats. Rude Bros/Ohsugi can be a huge bitch or it can be relatively free. Same for Faust/Kurt. Kurt can waste your time spin2winning while Faust summons minions and rushes you down, or you could kill Kurt almost instantly and get a fairly free Faust fight. I don't know much about loop 2 except it's hard.

Boomer is undeniably the best character. The things he's good at are things CF2 rewards, namely kicking and staying upright (meaning mobile!). His ground punish attacks are super fast and keep him standing. His forward P+K has crazy range and hitbox AND plays nice with the screen glitch. His neutral P+K comes out fast, deals good damage and screen glitches fools reliably. As the best kicker, he's also de facto the best striker because punch strings suck dick in CF2. The only reason I play Blood is I like the character more. I have a soft spot for boxers in vidya gaems.

[BIL]

Yeah, I've avoided using Murph's vids too much for just that reason. I like to get things down to a reliable method, then check out the superplays.

Something I picked up re: Kurt, from watching Murph's run, is that his high anchor strike does bizarrely negligible damage. Spinneh-mah-Winneh is grievous, as is getting pickaxed, especially while you're on the floor - but if you stay in his face, tanking through those piffling hits and landing throws + ground stomps, he'll die fast.

Even with Boomer, I don't rely on P or K chains much, unless I know for sure it's an enemy vulnerable to them (like Ohsugi and Frank Rude). Off-axis K chains work well on Karnovs and S&M Dragos, but they're very rare, most of the former are positioned for shotgunning, and there's only two of the latter.

My typical Faust+Kurt run, starting to use some of that Kurt infighting mentioned above. Gotta love losing 90% HP off a dumb mistake. Red Knifers' leap attack is wicked, superb enemy design. Actually just about all of 'em are.

Something that vid's Kurt KO reminds me of... it's really cool, and gritty, how most of the characters' damage frames have them blocking, racking up defensive wounds to the forearms and hands. Or occasionally falling to one knee before forcing themselves back up in the same heartbeat. EDIT: Or the way enemies stabbed to death just abruptly collapse, instead of going flying like they've been punched ala Final Fight. Grim.

My one stylistic criticism of CF2 is your dudes being the Mom Jeans Crew, particularly with all the returning enemies enjoying consistent upgrades - but as far the actual choreography goes, it's overwhelmingly good stuff ala CF1.

[Sima Tuna]

Gotta love losing 90% HP off a dumb mistake.

Lack of any kind of recovery mechanic is my only complaint with CF2. I'm just not good enough to play perfectly. Most beat em ups give you something to recover with. I have been combo'd for my entire lifebar (from full) in CF2 so many times I have lost count. Konami really worshiped at the alter of GIT GUD SCRUB back then.

[BIL]

I've come to regard the defensive K chain as the game's nearest equivalent - if you land near a juicy target, you can do a nasty chunk of near-unstoppable damage. Ol' Fausty got wrecked on that one, even if that shitbird Kurt landed a near-fatal jump-in (can't complain about Red, he earned that downstab). Very satisfying countering Caveman and Frank's stomp/dive, too.

That said, yeah, lack of Bomb is pure Technos late-80s vintage. Well, almost... unlike CF1, at least you have HP restores.

I gotta say though, I find CF2 (even its loop) a vastly more forgiving game than its main contemporary, Final Fight. You can lose your lifebar in a heartbeat in that game, too - off a few lategame zako jabs, exactly like CF2's Greasers. But FF's stages are longer, and its crowds far bigger. Arguably, the classically Capcom MEGACRUSH economy (see also Forgotten Worlds and 1941) evens this out - but you need to know where and when to bomb, and the bosses are also a helluva lot more viciously idiosyncratic than CF2's relatively intuitive bunch.

And just like the OG Technos trio, you're a lot more agile, relative to enemies, in CF2 - if you want to escape an ugly setup, it's just a matter of hauling ass. Much harder, if not impossible, to fall back in FF. Of course in FF, offense is usually your best defense AND best evasion - reaping combo ender and throw i-frames, while flattening screenloads of enemies with the aid of a judicious bomb, or two, or three or more, if there's a juicy HP restore just ahead.

Stick n' Move! Bombing? HP restores? I-frames?! Son are you speaking shit to me

Spoiler

Stick n' Slam! Peace through unstoppable violence and truckloads of steak and booze!

Spoiler

I plan to tackle FF seriously at some point, but ala Gradius III, it's a "done when it's done" grudge. CF2 is wickedly punishing, but feels forgiving enough I was happy to challenge it on a whim (it's been out for well over half a year on ACA, but I was stuck into a Neo Geo grudge match at the time).

I enjoy Capcom et al's 90s-onward beltscrollers just fine, but my heart is really with the smaller-scale Technos OGs and their Konami+Tecmo epigones. Those vicious stun-driven beatdowns, sidestepping and punishing attackers until they're doubled over in agony, then grapple-battering them to the ground and stomping their faces or nuts for the fatal KO, knowing that the slightest error will see you demolished likewise by the relentlessly backstabbing horde.

You say "pimpin' ain't easy?" JUST GOT WORSE I'M AN ANGRY GAY GUY (■｀w´■)

Spoiler

It's like the super-refined, hyper-ambitious late 90s/early 00s STGs spearheaded by CAVE, versus the economical, icily-accurate Toaplan school. What a happy outcome that both of these schools, in both genres, are readily available on modern consoles.

I like how CF2's food is explicitly kept in crates, versus the garbage cans - even with this decadent amenity, Konami still refused to have players eating out of the trash ala Final Fight.

Lately I've been incorporating pickup i-frames - unlike when retrieving weapons, where enemies will punish you ruthlessly, you're completely invincible while picking up containers, or food. Also, if you take a hit while hauling a crate or trashcan, the attacker will often eat the falling object. This works great on Freddy Rude, the slippery little fuck.

Oh, also, here's that Captain Caveman instakill I mentioned. With the pattern and timing shown, it'll happen about 50% of the time. The two prerequisites are 1) that the first barrel trip him as shown, leaving him face-down, and 2) that he do the big windup on recovery. If he does that, chuck the second barrel into him for 1337 H4X per-frame damage and the instakill.

Sometimes he won't get tripped, or he'll do his AOE keepaway instead. I notice I can trip him reliably with a different setup, exploiting the stage start invincibility, but it leaves me too close to him (I'm assuming), as he never does the windup.

Regardless, I've been deliberately practicing without it, so that I'm used to going without the free lunch. Not that these guys are all that tough a fight, but it pays to do well, so you've got two crates to brain that little bitch Fred with.

EDIT: Man, the way this game's throws are choreographed to enemy windups is SO FUCKIN GOOD. I've never played a brawler with such a seamless counterattack flow. Walking into enemy startups and putting them flat on their back, wiping out backstabbers in the process, makin' me think of these mad Cameroonian chaps.

Training exercise. IRL? Do like Fairbarn-sensei and just shoot the bastard. (■｀w´■)

Spoiler

Of course certain enemies will counter walkups, like Dominatrices and Red Mohawks, and just about any enemy can jab. But that's what the Y Axis is for. ;3

Turn around bitch! I got a use for you! (■｀w´■)

Spoiler

^ Rad detail, how you can see the boss fight's truck from the warehouse entrance, waiting in the loading bay. CF2's a very finely-brushed brawler, on aesthetic and mechanical fronts alike. Did you notice that returning a Bomber Punk's throwing knife is an instant kill? Not just for him either - any non-boss interceptor is getting 1HKOd.

[Sima Tuna]

Crime Fighters 2:

Spoiler

I agree that Crime Fighters 2 feels less difficult than Final Fight. Final Fight gives you plenty of tools, super-tight controls and really satisfying combat, but the trade-off is it sends wave after wave of very difficult enemies at you. One of the superplay strats I've seen used is to despawn a lot of the mobs by backjumping as fast as possible to the end of the level. Can't say I'm a fan of that.

Crime Fighters 2 has a much more measured approach. Just like with Final Fight, if you fuck up once, you will eat a death. And the lack of recovery mechanics means that, unlike FF, there's no way to cancel out of a fuckup by paying resource tax. If you fuck up in CF2, you will die and there's nothing you can do about it. But you're not fighting 10 holly woods at a time, either. You fight 2-4 enemies at a time, in most situations. So the threats are more manageable... They're just really scary.

I decided to try out Okinawa Rush a little. I played the demo back when it released on consoles and I did not enjoy it. I thought the mechanics were poorly explained (not explained at all) and the ninja mobs were so dense I didn't understand what to do. I also didn't care for the main character's moveset all that much. Well, turns out the full release has 3 characters and they're freely switchable/selectable from game start. There's also an extensive dojo mode which is more than just reading onscreen tutorials. So now I'm rolling with the female kung fu fighter and she's way more fun. She has one inch punch chains and they feel so satisfying to do. I wasn't crazy about stages 1 and 2, but stage 3 won me over. The first two boss fights are shit, in my opinion. One is a Ninja Scroll rock guy who spams instant-kill haymakers. The other is an Ent from lord of the rings who spins2win along the ground, Sonic the Hedgehog style, which kills you instantly. In fact, all his moves kill you instantly because fuck you.

But the stage 3 boss is a 10/10. You fight Pai Mei triplets in a traditional teahouse. They even throw steamed buns at you from range. It's the best.



The boss is completely fair because it's human size, uses a similar moveset to yours and plays by your rules of combat. You fight them one after another, while the ones you're not fighting lounge around and watch. It's a test of your skill and endurance at the core combat of the game. I love it when beat em up bosses are just regular enemies, but stronger. Rather than some jank-ass bullshit challenge that will never come up again.



The story mode is like a typical meta progression thing, where you can upgrade your """stats""" by decorating the dojo and you respawn instantly (enemies don't) as long as you have lives. I'm going through it to learn the stages and bosses and then I'll be switching to arcade. Arcade seems pretty harsh though. There are no lives in Arcade (this being a health bar game), so death sends you to the continue screen. A 1cc would therefore have to be a 1lc by definition, unless I'm mistaken. Anyway, game seems better than I initially thought.

[Stevens]

Sifu

This one is the real deal. I'll type up some thoughts in the morning.

[Jeneki]

Picked up the Ninja Jajamaru Collection. This one:


It's a collection of the Famicom games (no arcade versions), which I was only familiar with the first so I figured why not. Turns out some of them are turn based rpgs in Japanese that I won't get much out of, but the rest are sidescrollers and playable.

It also has a new mode called The Great Yokai Battle. This is more of an arena battler like the first game, where you earn coins based on your performance to unlock more characters and stuff. Controls are super simple, with most of the complexity coming from how you approach enemies and hit them from certain angles to stun them. The different characters (a few dozen I've seen so far) have their own stats and attack styles, some are great for general level clearing while others are more specialized for certain boss fights. The levels start out mindlessly easy, but ramps up quickly to the point you can't kill anything unless you learn how to approach or stun it. The boss fights are pretty standard, memorize the pattern and take a character that can attack it efficiently.

So yeah I wouldn't call it a top notch purchase, but has enough that I don't regret picking it up. Anyone else have experience with the Famicom games, or tried out the Yokai Battle?

[BIL]

I'm surprised Hamster didn't license out the ACA versions of Ninja-kun and its sequel Ashura no Shou. trap always warned me off the second game's FC port (by Micronics IIRC), so I never checked them out. I really like Ninja-kun II's arcade version. As per UPL, it's goofy yet deceptively hardcore-spec... that almost Ys-prefiguring bump-fu is hawt!

[BrianC]

Ninja Kun II introduced the Super Metroid style wall jump years before Super Metroid. I looked up the Jajamaru collection. It seems to be just Jajamaru games, which were NES exclusive, and no Ninja Kun games? I wonder if the first two Jajamaru games were meant to be archrival games since the ports of Ninja Kun 1 and 2 on FC aren't great.

[BIL]

Oh right Didn't realise JaJamaru was a separate sub-series. Actually, I didn't know they predated the SFC.

Yeah, Ninja-kun II's walljump is amazing! The input sounds annoying on paper (tap [jump] towards a wall, then hold [away +jump] until impact), but in-game it's totally intuitive, especially with the bumpily physical melee. No timing required, much easier than Super Metroid's more finessed input. Besides climbing, it's also handy for efficient movement in general, ricocheting off walls to gain height and velocity during combat. Perhaps better thought of as a "wall bounce."

I wonder how influential it was on stuff like Tecmo's FC Ninja Gaidens, which work differently, but use the mechanic for similarly superhuman vertical ascents of sheer vertical shafts. Dragon Buster (1984) seems like the earliest doublejumper, can't recall a similarly antique walljumper.

[Randorama]

Gents, your patience and knowledge I must summon for a few minutes, please.

My (research) assistants asked me today if Konami has ever produced games (and, in particular, arcade titles) that have elaborate scoring mechanics.
My very defensive answer mentioned the Twinbee and the Parodius titles (because of the bells), and the Asterix tie-in in which charge shots should give you extra points.

What other titles (and mechanics) did I miss?

[Sumez]

For a genre that usually doesn't have any scoring system at all, Konami's Asterix probably does it the worst. There's nothing elaborate about it.

I'd say Parodius since Gokujou (with the purple bells for high level play) definitely fits the bill, but I also think even the basic bell chaining in Parodius Da is enjoyable. For some reason it works much better for that style of game than a Twinbee.

[Stevens]

Sifu

Should be in the running for GOTY and will probably win in the indie category.

You're playing a martial arts movie, there's no other way to put it.

Controls beautifully. The combat is incredible - think Sekiro - you can break an opponent's posture via parries or dodge and down them via health.

Altars (up to three per level) allow you to add moves, health, posture or a few other things (mostly useful) for xp, score, or being under a certain age.

Stages, especially the first two, are fantastic.

It also has what may be the best tutorial I've ever played. No joke.

You die, death counter goes up by one, and you age that many years. Every ten your health gets lower and your power increases. Die over 70 and its game over. There are ways to lower your death counter.

I have one complaint. At times it needs more enemies. The game shines brightest when you're fighting. Hopefully this is addressed. Also the loading is Bloodborne long.

Game is hard but fair. Ultimately it is an arcade style game. I've seen sub 35 minute runs.

Don't want to say too much more. Epic exclusive for now, I picked it up on PS 4.

[Sima Tuna]

Sifu

Should be in the running for GOTY and will probably win in the indie category.

You're playing a martial arts movie, there's no other way to put it.

Controls beautifully. The combat is incredible - think Sekiro - you can break an opponent's posture via parries or dodge and down them via health.

Altars (up to three per level) allow you to add moves, health, posture or a few other things (mostly useful) for xp, score, or being under a certain age.

Stages, especially the first two, are fantastic.

It also has what may be the best tutorial I've ever played. No joke.

You die, death counter goes up by one, and you age that many years. Every ten your health gets lower and your power increases. Die over 70 and its game over. There are ways to lower your death counter.

I have one complaint. At times it needs more enemies. The game shines brightest when you're fighting. Hopefully this is addressed. Also the loading is Bloodborne long.

Game is hard but fair. Ultimately it is an arcade style game. I've seen sub 35 minute runs.

Don't want to say too much more. Epic exclusive for now, I picked it up on PS 4.

I haven't played it myself yet, but I have seen complete runs. I have a few complaints just based on what I've seen:

-not enough weapons
-no but really, not enough traditional chinese weapons (I believe traditional chinese martial arts have a fuckton of these)
-seriously, the knife weapon is some kind of tanto/wakizashi rather than a Dao
-game seems to take martial arts movie inspiration primarily from newer films, like The Raid and Kill Bill, rather than OG stuff. Outside of the red intro/practice area, I didn't see much that suggested Shaw Bros, Golden Harvest, etc.

If my complaints sound trivial, that's because they're just nitpicks. The gameplay looks good. I think it's a huge missed opportunity, though, to make a chinese beat em up in full 3d and not give us access to the three-sectional-staff, guandao, butterfly swords or jian. Hopefully they add more weapons with DLC. The weapons were one of the best aspects of ninja gaiden II.

[BIL]

Yeah Rando, my mind instantly went to Twinbee and Parodius, too. Those are the only ones I can think of with scoring mechanics beyond straight survival/endurance.

Not sure if Konami did any Tetris/Puyo-style games?

As for me,



Goddamn, I love the hard gaming. Finally realised what's up with Kruel Kurt's damage ouput. The setup for his spin move - the high strike to either side - is a 0HP shove, just like Missing Link's triple stomp warning. As with ML, it shares frames with attacks that do hurt, but it's easy to distinguish once you know what you're looking at.

Despite his generally low pressure, this asshole was actually my last holdout before getting down to full 2ALL runs, owing to this sticking point. Sometimes I'd demolish him with barely a scratch (ie: buffeted back by the 0HP), others I'd eat shit (ie: walking face-first into the real deals). He was taking me pitifully long to kill, as a result, not something I'd care to record even if I managed to pull through. Now I can tear into him with the real ultra violence. A barrage of shotgun blasts, flooring him and killing all his dudes, then a chain thrashing, followed by a sustained pummelling with stops only to disarm his backup. Red Mohawks are luckier RNG than Bombers - they drop knives by default, which have nice damage and range, and can easily break Kurt's spinny bullshit (alternatively you can use Boomer's jump PK, but it's tricky and will cost 25% HP if screwed up). Bombers have to live long enough to pull a throwing knife before they'll give you drops, not convenient.

Also finally twigged how the headlock works. It's a rear grapple. When an enemy gets back to their feet in stun, because you slammed them on their face and stomped their nuts, walk up behind 'em and *CRACK* dropped like a sack o' shite, me laddy! Totally second nature using it to execute enemies now. You technically can catch 'em in a standing contest, typically while they're whiffing at you, but it's dicey.

I never thought I'd actually understand this game's grappling system, let alone like it. The odd hybrid of Technos dizzies and Capcom throw-on-demand works incredibly well. Again, pure reflex walking up on a would-be backstabber and turning him into a human missile.

Surprised to find Hawk is actually pretty damn good. His K chains have a brutal, chopping range I actually prefer to Boomer's. P chain is excellent too, floors targets fast with good off-axis launching. His PKs aren't as good as Boomer's, but the standing lariat is handy for sending pushy enemies across the screen, and just a fun attack to connect with. His headbutt (rear grapple) basically 1HKOs everything but the toughest non-bosses, who'll be left at death's door. Doing slower, larger chunks of damage with the big elbow is an interesting change of pace, and again it's just an aesthetically satisfying kill, the way it squashes enemies.

While Blood is basically Worse Boomer, and Sledge is just an awkward mess (I do like the animation of his P chain, albeit it's basically Worse Hawk), I could see myself going for a Hawk clear after I get Boomer's down.

It's so good catching up with this stuff.

[Sengoku Strider]

Not sure if Konami did any Tetris/Puyo-style games?

They did indeed, in the form of the obscure but quite prolific and mostly Japan-only Taisen Puzzle Dama series. The first was an arcade game, there was a Tokimeki Memorial themed arcade followup (this made it to Saturn and I think PS1) then a third arcade game in the vein of the first. The others were all Japanese console or mobile games, and included TwinBee & Pop n' themed releases

Interestingly, the series lasted from 1995 all the way up to 2011, and the second to last entry was Castlevania Puzzle: Encore of the Night for iOS in 2010, which we did get over here. It was one of the few things I could stand to play at length on my gen 1 iPad. I also have the two Saturn entries, and I had zero idea they were connected to Encore of the Night until very recently.

[BIL]

Good info! Those might be worth investigating for developed scoring systems.

[copy-paster]

My (research) assistants asked me today if Konami has ever produced games (and, in particular, arcade titles) that have elaborate scoring mechanics.

Salamander 2 have few scoring secrets as well as sparing option seeds for enemies and score too.

[Randorama]

Copy-paster: thanks, I forgot about Salamander 2, in fact.

Sengoku Strider: ...thanks for mentioning the Tokimeki and Taisen Dama titles.
I have 2 of the Saturn ports (out of 2? 3?), which I remember buying for a few euros in 2011.
I *believe* that they also have a chain/score system, didn't they?
I played the Saturn one(s) a lot with the wife, back in the day.

BIL: Sledge always struck me as the "challenge/penalty" character, i.e. the character that you play when you really know the game inside out and you want a novel challenge.
I did have a friend who learnt to play it for a 1-CC (one loop; we didn't have a 2-ALL version, at my uncle's arcade) for precisely this reason.
It should require a lot of patience to learn, in certain sections, because it simply doesn't offer the players straightforward attacking options (Kruel Kurt? The Rude Bros?).

Fun fact: "sledge" in Australian/New Zealand English is a type of insult to be used at the crease/on the paddock to rile up opponents.
The true sledge should distract the opponent not much because it is offensive, but because it is false.
It should also be a pure taunt/heckling act: if push comes to shove, the "sledger" should admit that of course it didn't mean it at all, but the "sledgee" shouldn't have fallen for it.
...it's very Southern Hemisphere stuff, I would add.

[BIL]

BIL: Sledge always struck me as the "challenge/penalty" character, i.e. the character that you play when you really know the game inside out and you want a novel challenge.
I did have a friend who learnt to play it for a 1-CC (one loop; we didn't have a 2-ALL version, at my uncle's arcade) for precisely this reason.
It should require a lot of patience to learn, in certain sections, because it simply doesn't offer the players straightforward attacking options (Kruel Kurt? The Rude Bros?).

That's a good way to look at it. To be honest, any one of the four characters would be acceptable, were this a one-moveset show ala the original Crime Fighters. I get the feeling Boomer was the "default" though, with him sharing so many grimly practical moves with the visually similar CF1 avatar (double axehandle combo ender, flying roundhouse, a suite of laser-accurate kicks to the head, and a blood-simple soccer kick to the face/nuts... I wish he'd kept CF1's wicked Muay elbows and low kicks too, but at least Hawk more than delivers on the latter - legbreakingly stiff style, more Hansen than Hogan ). Blood seems like an Alt. Boomer, and Hawk a somewhat more grappler-styled contrast, not so much in moveset as doing more damage in fewer, slower hits.

Very Sunset Riders - four characters across two archetypes, though Hawk and Sledge's "heavy hitter dude" are much more starkly different than Bob and Cormano's spreadshotter sprite-swap.

As I've always found with any first-rate action game, this is the sort of quality I'll keep replaying long after figuring out "the answer" to a given section. Got Kurt down to a reliable 1min no-hit fight, though honestly, I think it's more fun to risk a smack here and there (as always, while I'm not into speedrunning, I adore violent efficiency ). The pace of combat is so fast, and the synergy of standing/grounded attacks is so seamless, you really never need to stop beating on a target if you don't want to, provided your spacing and situational awareness are good (beware backstabs and comebacks alike). You can see where I held off to avoid setting myself aflame, as homie shrieked and writhed after that Molotov Gone Wrong. If not for the no-hit attempt, I'd have happily risked joining them in napalmic torment. Rare balance of icy precision to careening, knock-down/drag-out mayhem.

I keep accidentally grappling Freddy Rude (the "Igor" to his brother Frank/enstein's Monster, love that CV affection), but tonight's session was the first time I've dwarf tossed the fucker, right into his bro's face. My reliable method is to herd them into the lower-left corner, where I can beat on Frank and score hits on Freddy in one sweep. Freddy's actually the game's single deadliest combatant, imo, with his hard-to-escape 8way attack.

The Rudes' team grapple, where Frank suspends the player off the ground with their arms pinioned to their sides, while Freddy stabs the living fuck out of their eyes is siiick choreography Giallo-esque. tbh I wouldn't have complained if it were an instant kill, they earned it. Brutal. Don't stand still in front of them while they're teamed up and you won't see it, of course. Frank's rolling heel drop (nice telegraphing) is FTG-worthy stuff, too.

Speaking of Twinbee and Paro...

Spoiler

Is that the dancing girl from Da!'s second stage? And please tell me darling Pastel didn't grow up to be a ho Wait. They're cosplayers. Yeah, that's alright. Note the game's PCB serial # on the dumpster, along with an art staffer's name. I wonder if that was a Hiroshi Iuchi-predating comment on videogames as "disposable culture." (next to a presumed strip joint if not brothel, even - Nighttime Economy indeed)

[Blinge]

Bro forget Saigon Ninja i still can't get through stage 3 of Mizubaku without dropping at least two lives!


Idk what it is, no mental discipline? or just crazy stuff happening all the time

[Sumez]

Are you playing without warps? Almost the entirety of stage 3 can be skipped.