Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[BIL]

Shatterhand is quality just like all of Natsume's FC stuff (actually Shatterhand is NES exclusive, FC got an altered version with the Solbrain license). I mentioned it briefly in my recommends post.

NGII's sword took me a few days to get reoriented to after lots of NG1. It's accurate but the timing is stricter and the game has more fast-moving enemies and projectiles. Connecting with it 100% of the time takes concentration, it's not a slash-happy game like Strider or Hagane. There's that Dracula influence again.

[trap15]

Just picked up a Ninja Ryukenden cart today. Will be playing the hell out of it when I get my Famicom in a few weeks

[BIL]

Nicely done, first FC cart I got! Hard to believe I thought at the time there wouldn't be much else on the system I'd want (besides the other two Ryukendens).

Stumbled over LEARN 2 PLAY NINJA GAIDEN (sponsored by ACCLAIM) this evening.

edit: Actually, although I can't say the player intended to, there's a textbook life-or-death OTG sword kill executed here. A little too close for me but as evidenced by his zero remaining lives this was one wild and crazy guy!

So much harder to do those consistently in NGII (and III, with its floaty gravity). Here's another regularly used by my dumb jumpslash-losing ass. :[

[Ed Oscuro]

Nice upload by Arasoi there!

lol bomber head

[BIL]

With his chain sickle and motorcycle jacket, he's New York's King of Evil!

I wish Tecmo had just come up with similarly awesome English names for all the other bosses. Instead, our poor announcer has to call the third "Boss Queer." How about:

Basaquer / Berserker = MISSILE FUCK

Kelebross / Cerberus = BIG DOGS BITIN'

Bloody Malth / Bloody Mars = LIGHTNIN' McJOHNSON (the Midwest's King of Evil)

Jaquio / Jaki-oh = JUMBO SATAN

[Ed Oscuro]

Basaquer is one of those names which seem better on paper. I don't know why they didn't naturally go for a pronunciation more like "berserker," however.

I'd love to hear what you have to say about the various incarnations of Zoom's Genocide games, specifically the sequel. It has various options which seem to have a rather well-engineered use, and the mech is quite athletic, but I can't shake the feeling that the enemies are rather undemanding and you aren't expected to do much that's too difficult.

I might ask the same of Mad Stalker, although that one is more of a brawler apparently. (Tons of grappling and the almost-mandatory close-range rifle shot which may be combo activated, although the game looks really stuttery and even primitive in comparison with Genocide^2's visuals and smooth acrobatics. X68000 version doesn't look better here; skipping forward to 3:15 or so will demonstrate why)

Speaking of which, it's a shame these graphics didn't make it into anything more playable than the most rudimentary head-bouncer.

[BIL]

I've been procrastinating terribly with Japanese PC stuff - not only the Genocides and Zyclunt but Night Slave too. It's probably more pathological than that actually, I just don't get as fired up to try software for hardware I don't own (or plan to own at some point). Once I finally get around to it I'm happy to spend hours, though.

On the subject of sidescrolling brawlers like Mad Stalker, I've been trying to no-miss beltscroller Splatterhouse Part 3's amusingly named Game Master difficulty. It's a quality game, unlike the "extra joy minus health penalty" Genesis version of two years earlier, but it makes me wish 16-bit consoles did more stuff like Natsume's splendid The Ninja Warriors Again (SFC). TNWA would've been okay as a typical scaled-down console beater, but compressed into a sidescroller it's a masterpiece. Hard difficulty will utterly overrun a player who fails to rule the space around him and maintain awareness of the screen beyond. Four onscreen enemies is suddenly a lot when there's no vertical escape, just offense, defense and same-plane evasion with the potential for each to backfire if not smartly employed.

As cruel as SH3's crowd and boss AI is, there's always that sense of playing a diluted JAMMA beater, not a first-rate consolised one (with its developed grappling and combo systems, TNWA doesn't play like the original NW, Vigilante or AC Splatterhouse either). I'm sure Final Fight Tough would've turned out better if it'd dropped the pretense, too.

[Ed Oscuro]

Yes, watching Mad Stalker made me happy I had a copy of NW Again instead of that thing.

Genocide looks fairly good, though, and on FM Towns you can get it for console, and CD at that

I am feeling rather silly I went out and bought separate copies of the Genocide games (two of the original, by mistake, which almost wiped out the cheapness of it) instead of getting the two-game pack for FM Towns. Oh well.

[BIL]

Oh interesting, I didn't realise both Genocides were on FM Towns, apparently in good form... might look into that, thanks! I love Ving's Taito ports on the Saturn, so seeing they'd done the Splatterhouse FMT port had already made the machine a minor point of interest for me (with Namco ports apparently out of the question on the SS).

[BrianC]

On the subject of sidescrolling brawlers like Mad Stalker, I've been trying to no-miss beltscroller Splatterhouse Part 3's amusingly named Game Master difficulty. It's a quality game, unlike the "extra joy minus health penalty" Genesis version of two years earlier, but it makes me wish 16-bit consoles did more stuff like Natsume's splendid The Ninja Warriors Again (SFC). TNWA would've been okay as a typical scaled-down console beater, but compressed into a sidescroller it's a masterpiece. Hard difficulty will utterly overrun a player who fails to rule the space around him and maintain awareness of the screen beyond. Four onscreen enemies is suddenly a lot when there's no vertical escape, just offense, defense and same-plane evasion with the potential for each to backfire if not smartly employed.

I have the US Ninja Warriors SNES and I like what I played quite a bit. I looked in videos to see what was different with the JP version. It looks the same difficulty wise, but unfortunately, the US version has similar censorship to Final Fight where the female enemies were replaced with male ones. I still like the clawed midgets in the US one, but I definitely miss the female ninjas.

Edit: It looks like the JP version has both the female ninjas and the clawed enemies later on.

[Squire Grooktook]

Has anyone mentioned They Bleed Pixels yet?

Bought that game last year and really enjoyed it...unfortunately I got side tracked by other stuff half way through. I should really get back into that game, it's pretty fun and has some nice atmosphere.

[BIL]

I have the US Ninja Warriors SNES and I like what I played quite a bit. I looked in videos to see what was different with the JP version. It looks the same difficulty wise, but unfortunately, the US version has similar censorship to Final Fight where the female enemies were replaced with male ones. I still like the clawed midgets in the US one, but I definitely miss the female ninjas.

Edit: It looks like the JP version has both the female ninjas and the clawed enemies later on.

Huh, had no idea. I knew Natsume's other Taito-licensed triumph Kiki Kaikai got censored in US format, no Harpy boobs in Pocky & Rocky.

edit: actually, that's more than censorship in NW US, since the female katana wielders and clawed midgets are completely unique enemy types who often appear simultaneously. Meaning you won't get that particular mixup thrown at you - bit of a shame. Still, the game has plenty of other enemy types to fall back on.

The NW Again's more vexing censorship issue for me exists across all regions: green blood, whenever anyone gets hit with a bladed weapon. But to be honest, as with Wild Guns (which has no blood whatsoever despite roughly a million guys getting shot dead in the first five minutes), it's a colourful game of the OutRun school that wouldn't suit gore. Besides, it's easy to imagine the enemies are rocking some manner of biomechanical enhancements requiring regular artificial blood dialysis. How else do you handle get punched in the face repeatedly by a 1ton robot?

Has anyone mentioned They Bleed Pixels yet?

Bought that game last year and really enjoyed it...unfortunately I got side tracked by other stuff half way through. I should really get back into that game, it's pretty fun and has some nice atmosphere.

Looks neat from the trailer, thanks for the suggestion. I wish more games had borrowed Rockman X's wallsliding, I dig the tactile feeling and it keeps things fast-paced.

[Ed Oscuro]

@ BIL: Please you to leave a copy of Genocide for me to pick up, if you were thinking about tracking down a copy. Hey, I could always let you have a copy of the ISO instead

[BIL]

Don't worry. I've got a long way to go with other consoles yet.

I was checking out the FMT's library last night though, definitely some nice stuff on there in addition to Splatterhouse. That Hishou Zame port looks brilliant.

[Ghegs]

I am done with GB's Batman: Return of the Joker. I think I like the game overall, but that last battle against Joker is just uuuurrgghhh.

[Ed Oscuro]

Don't worry. I've got a long way to go with other consoles yet.

A heads-up, though, there are two on the 'Bay for $58 each. The last time I saw that happen to a game I was interested in, both ended over $100. Hopefully that doesn't happen - nobody seems to care about Genocide games for some reason - but if you want one, this might be the time. I'd be happy to coordinate aggressive attacking on the market if you wanted one, because this might be the chance.

[Ed Oscuro]

Ladies and bents - MASTER of DARKESS!!!1 (Also known as the In the wake of Vampire, The Fresh Prince of Psychiatry, etc., etc.)

How the fuck did people give this good scores back in the day? Wind up periods for EVERYthing takes forever. Here's a common scenario: DR SOCIAL sees a bat on the wall. DR SOCIAL walks towards it. The bat flaps its wings aggressively for about a second and then darts over half the screen in a quarter second. DR SOCIAL presses the action button just as the bat passes through him, because how the fuck do you time these things, and misses anyway because the axe's animation only deals damage to the front a good many frames too late.

No knockback (edit: oops, there is knockback - usually it's not a problem, although some later areas give you single block-wide platforms and throw bats at you, and you can fall) limits the level of punishment for whiffing an enemy, and ironically that makes many of the stages simple left-right or up-down affairs (there are plenty of multi-level connected stages, and falling from a higher screen into a lower one doesn't do any damage unless you land on a spike).

Something else I find jarring is that certain rooms have some interesting detail texures in the backgrounds, but the overall design is still the usual big perfectly square stone blocks hovering in place, light colored over a slightly darker wall. Any subtlety in the map design is totally destroyed by the overly simplistic layouts.

Also, something for your enjoyment. MASTER OF WIKIPEDIAS!

Compare these revisions: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?tit ... =499670531
wat
Now look at the edit history of the anonymous vandal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Co ... 92.13.66.2

[BIL]

Ahaha, I remember the character being called "Dr Social." Sweet username!

Interesting edit there... but I guess it's good there's someone, anyone to keep the Bidoof facts straight in this crazy world. Beavers haven't had the best public image lately, wouldn't want to see him implicated wrongly for something.

[Ed Oscuro]

wouldn't want to see him implicated wrongly for something.

For even more hilarity, I went to hunt down VideoGameCritic.net's take of the game. No dice for the SMS version.
But he's got the Game Gear version listed!
http://videogamecritic.com/ggmz.htm#Vam ... f_Darkness

The turn-of-the-century London scenery is quite realistic and conveys a nice atmosphere. There's plenty of platform jumping, but nothing too frustrating, and there are plenty of weapons hidden behind white masks.

I dunno, my Game Gear screen sure looks foggy.

This museum stage reminded me of an old horror flick I watched as a kid called "House of Wax" starring Vincent Price.

Speaking of realistic things, about horror movies. Yeah, that must be the one where spry ol' Vincent bounces over tables in the center of 50 strangely empty rooms so he can tag . Definitely an underappreciated classic. Speaking of unexpectedly spry, check out the "zombies" in this game (US ROM anyway). Can't tell which Michael Jackson dance routine they're aping but they sure do have a sweet entrance.

The control scheme is identical to Castlevania - one button jumps and the other attacks, and pushing up while firing engages your special weapon. With the exception of navigating the stairs, the control is right on the money.

Even our friendly source of the Independent Reviews couldn't help but notice there was something wrong here. I shouldn't be all sour grapes though - maybe he hasn't had years of bad training pounded into him by playing games like Castlevania (series rating progression: B, C-, A) or Ninja Gaiden (series rating progression: B-, B-, C, and LJN's Nightmare on Elm Street is a solid C+)...I'd like to shake the hand of the man who doesn't get his timing completely confused by the bats here, but I'm afraid it'd fall off. Who knows, maybe he's just getting by with the rather generous health potions here, but it does look like he's seem most of the game, I have to admit.

Brilliant new category / icon spotted:
http://videogamecritic.com/icon_Graveyards.htm

On a tangent, there are oodles of cover variations for the game. I haven't seen the US or Japanese covers, but there's at least two variants: The original with awesome skull-tongue action, and the Classics version which proves, with strange paper cutter-like texture and shrunken art, that punitive reissue changes aren't a new thing.

The Game Gear has two editions, apparently. Maybe we have a clue about VideoGameCritic's origins: According to Retrocopy's database, it's the EU release which adds "VAMPIRE" in big red letters (an honor reserved for Major Stryker) to a title floating over fake Bela Lugosi's lovingly drawn visage, in a last-ditch effort to remind VideoGameCritic to think of horror movies starring Vincent Price. Note the novelty vampire teeth slapped on at an angle. The US release features the usual '80s dead gray steel cube pattern which has charmed zombies right out of their graves since 1990.

MORE BONUS!
The Sega Force review of Master of Darkness. Gotta love the constant intrusion of Ed to make an '80s, early '90s British game rag. (How do people ever manage to get through all this text with me cutting down the word count? - Prod Ed)

Also, a random Retsupurae.

A parting shot from VideoGameCritic:

Ninja Gaiden III looks, sounds, and controls great, but its level designs are far to unforgiving. I can only recommend this game to Ninja Gaiden die-hards who want to know the meaning of pain.

[BIL]

"Cavernous warehouses," now that sounds exciting. Almost as exciting as Circle of the Moon's "Underground Gallery," "Underground Warehouse" and "Underground Waterway!

On the other hand "strange and forbidding streets" are right up my alley (Blimey, pack it in mate! - Ed). As long as they're the right kind of forbidding like SILENT HILL 2 with its mysteriously bounteous trash cans which are also in SILENT HILL 3 suggesting both games take place on garbage day morning.

A parting shot from VideoGameCritic:

Ninja Gaiden III looks, sounds, and controls great, but its level designs are far to unforgiving. I can only recommend this game to Ninja Gaiden die-hards who want to know the meaning of pain.

Authentic VGC typo detected! Have you cracked his COPY-PROOF SECURITY SYSTEM? I can't work out how to c/p directly from the reviews. :[

[Ed Oscuro]

I have all the secrets. (Maybe my NoScript plugin is superior to his circa 1999 Web 1.0 ScriptFu?)

Some more notes about Master of Darkness:

Best weapon seems to be the axe, although it has limited range it does decent damage - if you can get a hit in with it, can be challenging to time it and every critter has to be special. Watch out for pickups - a lot of them hold swords, umbrellas, or hammers, which all do less damage. For subweapons, forget the pistol. Haven't tried the boomerang, but the bomb and wooden stake seem reasonable. The bomb has a really ridiculous throw trajectory but it does some good damage. Stake flies straight across the screen and does big damage. Use these sparingly.

- Game has very forgiving air control. You can jump up and across farther than you might think. Apparently you can walk off a ledge but if you pull back at the right moment, you'll just see a goofy frame and then you're back on solid ground. Important: When you drop off a ledge, your falling frame has SOCIAL's full height. In other words, if you're crouching under a row of spikes, and you fall into an open pit under the spikes, you will take damage. It's also really difficult to land in the space between two spikes. Be forewarned for a spot where you have to drop down, while crouching, with a spike next to (not over) you. Air control will take you right into that spike unless you tap forward very carefully.

- Knockback from hits kick you most of the way across a block width, but not all the way. Quite often it's just an inconvenience for the sake of invincibility time...

- TONS of items hidden in walls in the later stages. Lots of full health items. Look for items hidden in walls. Occasionally the game has engaging stage design, but it's unfortunately somewhat rare. Lots of tedium in this one. Some areas have multiple paths, and you can skip entire areas in some of them. Look for a hidden wall for a more direct exit in at least one stage.

- Some bats fly directly (sort of) at you, fast, in a slight curve, and they might mercifully leave the screen. Others will fly in a circle. A few will fly about in a sine wave pattern. To defeat the types that don't circle around, you often will need to attack just about immediately. Sheesh. Of course, they all look the same.

- Got killed by the timer in the laboratory and it kicked me back to the beginning of the level. I'll have to see if I can pick up any 1ups in here...infinite milking time for anybody who cared for such a thing. I wouldn't say I was really dragging along, but I'll pick up the pace this time.

Speaking of that, there's a few fun things. The laboratory level starts outside with some hellish birds (note the one which appears and rushes you just as you're thinking about jumping over a pit barrier...nasty; although many of these birds can be jumped right over during their attacks), but inside it starts looking very reminiscent of Castlevania. Slowdown in spots too. The stage before that has an interesting little block destruction puzzle for a hidden item, and you fight on a clock tower (annoying enemy). Interesting how the enemies right before the tower flee when you get in range (I killed them with a bomb which was more challenging than it needed to be).

So basically, here's a game with an uneven design in most respects; makes timing hits on popcorn enemies a dangerous chore; shamefacedly raps you on the knuckles for colliding with a flying enemy because it can't really expect you're going to time them properly all the time; features boring cutscenes and ugly locations, has tons of superfluous items that you won't need requiring you go out of your way, but which you might end up visiting anyway to make sure you aren't passing up that very rare refill for your subweapon or the somewhat less rare health refill (hope you don't lose as much life getting the refill though); constantly drops main weapon downgrades right in your path, nevermind why the hell is this even part of the design - why would I want to go back to doing a quarter damage or less; and it can't get walking off a ledge right. Yep, just like Castlevania...but all its highlight scenes are cribbed straight from Castlevania. A-grade material for sure!

[Ed Oscuro]

hahaha, you've got to be kidding me. It killed me again - this time I really tore through the stage. I just picked up an extra one-up. Best part is, I was at the bar and had only two hits to go.

The sword is a lot easier to hit enemies with, since its hit frame is out longer in addition to the extra reach. It does no more than half damage compared to the axe though. I would've beaten that boss if I had the axe, but there's no axes in the level.

Edit: Okay, I made it through (savestate MANIA) with 194 time left (so using roughly 150 time). The stake does a respectable amount of damage, at least if you're stuck using the sword otherwise.

Gripping cutscene: Dr. Social was stuck in a dark cage, but broke it down with his shoulder and escaped! Labyrinth level incoming! The music here is a demented remix of the James Bond theme.

Also, I forgot a Beef in the Big Beefy List: The game expects you to fight bats in an area with some fat columns blocking your view...eh, at least there aren't any pits to deal with there.

Edit #2: Jesus, another timeout during a boss fight, this time at the final stage. Game felt like it was maybe thinking about starting something interesting, and then it ended. Granted it's just a simple maze level with an exit you need hawk eyes to spot (exploration is the name of the game, don't keep revisiting old rooms). Unfortunately - same dumb enemy placement as before.

I realized something about this - the boss fights are mainly there to show off things spinning on the screen; you're not supposed to figure out the pattern so much as force your way through it. Dracula here doesn't even have any threatening moves. The first part of the final boss fights (Count So-And-So) is vaguely Dracula-like, what with the slow spikes trying to ram themselves up your trouser leg. It's just a pain to deal with because you have to jump onto slowly falling bricks to get height enough to attack - either with the axe or stake (you probably won't have any bombs here, but the stake works just as well). For all the annoying times the game dumped me in a corner with an inviting item mask, only to drop a pistol on me, the final stage is relatively honest about what it expects you to do and strips away much of that freedom of choice (unless you accidentally picked up a revolver, but you don't need to find many stakes to finish off the bosses anyway).

Then some ending text about the castle crumbling (hmm, sounds familiar - you don't see it though), Jon Harker helping Social return to England, good to have electric lights, watch out when you're walking in the dark of a full moon because the curse of Dracula remains, etc. Can you smell the menace? Weegee board credit roll because somebody else used a filmstrip, apparently.

[Ghegs]

Been playing some Batman: Return of the Joker on NES this time (well, on Famicom, where it's called Batman Dynamite for some reason) and it's kind of disappointing, sadly. The graphics are superb, but the gameplay is kind of meh. No more walljumping, Batman shoots (!) enemies and it's so easy to take hits you'll often want to go at a very slow pace. I probably won't bother with a 1CC on this one.

[BrianC]

Been playing some Batman: Return of the Joker on NES this time (well, on Famicom, where it's called Batman Dynamite for some reason) and it's kind of disappointing, sadly. The graphics are superb, but the gameplay is kind of meh. No more walljumping, Batman shoots (!) enemies and it's so easy to take hits you'll often want to go at a very slow pace. I probably won't bother with a 1CC on this one.

The first Batman on GB has that odd gun thing too. Still feels somewhat different from RoTJ NES with some Super Mario Land-ish elements (breakable blocks, small sprites, levels split into sections). I like that one quite a bit myself, though the level design can get evil in sections with hidden blocks and power down icons that are hard to avoid. Music is awesome and it even has a cool shmup stage.

One thing that is interesting about the US Batman: Return of the Joker is that is it one of the few NES games that uses a third party custom chip.

[Ed Oscuro]

I admit I bought Batman Dynamite on the strength of its looks and its appearance as something of a run-and-gun shooter, even if that's unconventional for the character. Haven't bitten into it yet. I'll give it a try. I better go ahead and play the original too, though, and get rid of my excuse that I only needed the sequel, if they really are that different.

[Mortificator]

I must have caught the Batman rabies from you guys, since I've felt compelled to hit up all the sidescrollers based on the '89 movie. From best to worst, I think I'd rate them...

1. NES Batman - Its substantial strengths have been covered, so I'll nitpick the game's few weaknesses: it doesn't include some bits from the movie I'd have liked (such as knocking Jack into acid), the gyrojet gun's almost useless, and there are a few too many of those boring flamethrower guys.

2. Game Boy Batman - A bit like Super Mario Land, a bit like Mega Man. The monochrome suits the noir styling well, though it's discordant for Batman to go around blowing people away with a pistol. Boss fights are a total letdown, but the Batwing stage is better than many of the horis designed for the handheld.

3. Arcade Batman - A Rolling Thunder clone with enemies smart enough to duck if you throw a batarang at their heads and hop if you throw one at their feet. I like how the Joker repeatedly comes at you with different weapons. It's too bad the game is just destroyed by its inept and jerkily-animated Batman. When the player gets swamped in Shinobi, he can see a way out through very quick and precise actions, while Batman can't even consistently punch someone in the face. Sometime he'll randomly decide to do a slow fancy spin kick instead and get a knife in the crotch.

4. Genesis Batman - The screenshots looked so good! The game played so bad! Get your core mechanics down before you think of adding third-rate shmup sections.

5. Home computer Batman - Only two sidescrolling stages, both with lots of dead space and slowly hoisting yourself up by your rope.

[Ghegs]

To my surprise I'm actually warming up a bit to Batman Dynamite. Despite the cheap shots (=hits that seem utterly unavoidable) I still managed to get to 4-2 on a credit. The biggest change is how I play the game, I used to flick the turbo on and spam the N weapon which destroys everything fast but then I tried playing it with the C weapon, which can't be spammed in a similar fashion being a slow-but-strong type of weapon, and it's more fun that way.

I feel I must also mention that I've been having fun playing Streemerz. It started out as a Flash game, a (vastly improved) remake of one of horrible NES' Action 52 games, and the remake has since been ported back to NES, so I guess it technically counts for this thread. Especially since RGB was kind of to put the game into a Famicom cart for me so I can play like a boss:

[Turrican]

So Ghegs, which of the many "Return of the Joker" incarnations do you prefer?

[Ghegs]

I've only played the NES and GB ones, and the GB one is so different from the NES/SNES/Genesis versions it can't really be included in direct comparisons like that.

I will say the GB one feels slightly more Batman-like in gameplay, while the NES game's main sprite could be replaced by Iron Man and the game would feel just the same. Might even be more appropriate, come to think of it.

[Ed Oscuro]

Game miscs

Looks like some Batman ROTJ in there.