Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

FinalBaton wrote:I popped in a game last night just to adjust my sweet Sony crt's picture/brightness/contrast, and stare at some crt goodness. Welp, I ended up playing it for an hour and a half non-stop. Was supposed to be just a couple minutes :/

That game, is pretty obscure. A hidden gem I'd say. It's called Super Mario Bros. Not sure if you guys have heard of it
But seriously, I just marvel at that game.

This is one of those games I can't stop playing once I fire it up. I think we all have those games.
It's the same for me with Streets of Rage/Streets of Rage 2, Street Fighter Alpha series, Shinobi III and strangely : Squaresoft's(!) Rad Racer on the NES. Can't help but to do many, many races each and every time I plug that one in.

Those aren't necessarily my very top picks for best games of all-time(although they are high on the list). But they're all games I find super cool looking and that have an hyper-addicting quality, and that I thoroughly enjoy seeing in action on the good ol' cathode ray tube. They get me completely hypnotized into submission, and then proceed to beat my brain up till it turns into mush.
Rad Racer/Highway Star is a real desert island game... instantly relentless and exhilarating. It's tough, too, certainly on par with arcade stuff. My sole complaint is the BGM switch being on the d-pad and not Select. It'd annoy me in any setting, but especially a hyper-intense racing game. I actually took apart a controller and stuck a bit of cardboard on the PCB, back in the day. :lol:

I wish programmer Nasir Gebelli could've worked his magic on Nintendo's intriguing but only just playable Mach Rider. Has some really interesting mechanics re speed, shooting and ramming, but the brutally choppy framerate cannot cope with the violently twisting, hazard-filled courses. It encourages dropping a gear, which isn't the worst thing, but it undeniably relegates the game to a curio. Nintendo's own Pole Position clone from a year earlier F1 Race is still eminently playable.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by FinalBaton »

Oh ya bud, Rad Racer feels fucking great. Furious action. The centrifuge force(that's the french word for it, not sure what's the word in english) in detours is applied so well, it feels REAL. It's barely there and then at an adequate point in the curve it fucking rips you out of the track and slams you in a nearby sign. Br00tal! Scrolling is damn smooth, perspective effect is good. Super-well implemented goal-based system (very nice difficulty to it too) and you got one addictive game.

Man, been meaning to talk about Mr. Nasir awhile ago but forgot to do so. Maybe I should create a Programmer's corner thread, where we highlight the work of noteworthy programmers and stuff. that'd be interesting. But yeah he's hella tight. He's a big part of my gaming life, as I've seen his name right there at the first time I booted up what would become the most important game of my life : Final Fantasy.

I remember reading about him and that he was kind of a prodigy in programming or something. And that Square were reallllllly happy to have found/hired him, him becoming one of their pillars for sure. Was it some wiki or an interview? can't remember

Yeah imagine if he had worked on a racing game for Nintendo. Would have most probably given them another hit.
Mach Rider eh? I've got a game named like that on one of my old ass multi carts. I'll check it out just for shits and giggles.
Last edited by FinalBaton on Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:55 am, edited 11 times in total.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by FinalBaton »

Speaking of somewhat unlikely games by a specific dev : I recently rebought Wizards & Warriors for the NES, by famed 16-bit and 32-bit british developper Rare(!). another staple of young Baton's official grey plastic tray of NES carts.

I'm super nostalgic for it and it has a place in my heart and I still kinda like it but : it's hard to recommend today. tons upon tons of cheap hits from enemies who fall from the top of the screen directly on your helmet at mach speed, and that's so damn frustrating. Especially in narrow vertical stage sections.
Add to that, that some items/weapons take the place of others in your inventory(and you can't get that previous item back), so if you grab a shitty/unwanted weapon, then that's some mega-frustration for you right there.

But it still does good things in the action-adventure-game genre : the items/weapons you find are cool af. Getting decked with a shield and throwing daggers/axes? hell yeah! now that's satisfying finds. The Boots of Force are also supremely satisfying. Not only can you bust open chest by the way of swift kicks, but you can swiftly kick enemies too! Glorious! All sorts of offensive-magic casting staffs, a levitation potion, an enchanted feather that slows down your fall, etc. What a fun inventory.
The music, although very repetitive, is beyond charming, and features some of the lower bass notes I've heard used in FC/NES games. Like, floor shaking stuff. If you've got a subwoofer, make sure you turn it on!
The level design is also good, with decently large stages that are fun to explore. They look good too(as do the sprites).

Boss fights seem just okay from my recent playthrough(I need to play those fights again). But I'm admittedly not the best judge of boss fights...

So in short, if you know the content of all or most chests, and can deal with countless cheap hits, then it can be a fun game to romp through (I really do suggest to print a map online with the content of all chests identified, even for a 1st playthrough). Otherwise, chances are you won't like it

EDIT : turns out I still have my manual from the copy I grew up playing. same with Rad Racers'
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

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Mario is the best hidden gem, FB. :lol:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by FinalBaton »

:mrgreen:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Steamflogger Boss »

I totally feel you on Mario games though, happens whenever I put them in as well. Just such well made games.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Ghegs »

The talk about Rad Racer makes me obliged to mention my favorite NES/FC racer and what is easily the most technical racing game on the system, as far as the gameplay mechanics go.

Michael Andretti's World Grand Prix.

I'm not even kidding.

Though I call it by it's Japanese title, F-1 Hero. Since the genre falls outside the thread's scope I won't gush too much about it, but here are some bulletpoints:
  • Faux-analog steering
  • 16 courses based on real Formula 1 tracks
  • Two-player split-screen multiplayer
More gushing in this thread over at Rolling Start.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Excellent, thanks for the heads-up! I was about to say I might've tried that one briefly, but it turns out it was the FC port of Final Lap. Which was cool, but didn't feel distinguished next to the fury of Highway Star or the simple tension of F1 Race, my reference FC Pole Position-esques. This one sounds a lot more compelling, onto the shortlist.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Stevens »

More Metal Warriors.

As suspected mission six is in fact at least twice as long as a average mission to that point, but to its defenses it's brilliant.

The first part has you stomping through the jungle which is full of mechs, small rocket launchers, and cannons. The mechs and cannons are ok, even if you have to engage more than one, but just one of those small launchers, if you're not careful, well ruin your Shit post haste.

The second part of the mission has you sneaking mech style into a base to steal the enemies new ride, and the final part has you escaping in said ride.
You're sure to be in a fine haze about now, but don't think too hard about all of this. Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good. You know, it's just what hunters do! You'll get used to it.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Stevens »

Mission seven is nice and easy compared to the marathon that is mission six. It sees you making your way across a city that looks like it has barely survived judgement day.

Bombed out buildings that collapse, burning fires, the works. You must defend an enemy outpost that they are trying to keep out of your hands.

Mission eight has you infiltrating a tower with a slightly awe inspiring scale. I think I know what I have to do, I just did it in the wrong order while exploring and had my ass promptly handed to me at the top.
You're sure to be in a fine haze about now, but don't think too hard about all of this. Just go out and kill a few beasts. It's for your own good. You know, it's just what hunters do! You'll get used to it.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Blinge »

I actually cannot get through Contra stage 1 without dying lmao.

Ima go full Dantes!

edit: done it now after a cool 10 attempts ;]
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by FinalBaton »

Blingey...

-_-

come on man. Give 'er bud!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Blinge »

I dunno man i've really never played this before, not as a kid either.
the base stages are like pounding nails into one's dick.
FinalBaton wrote: Give 'er bud!
Haha what does that even mean!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Blinge wrote:I dunno man i've really never played this before, not as a kid either.
It's a not insubstantial game, but the learning curve is pretty smooth and amenable to experience. Basically, survive progressively longer with ultimate dick-slapping setup S+R -> get more extends, so when you eventually die you'll have a fighting chance at getting powered up again -> repeat.

I distinctly remember being seven and borrowing the cart one weekend, having spent all summer playing the hell out of it with friends, then despairing as I realised I didn't know the 30 lives cheat we (with much encouragement from the day's gaming press) considered mandatory. Then noticing I'd been playing it so much, I wasn't dying very often anyway - cetainly not enough to actually need thirty lives per run. Soon enough could just about pull through on defaults.

Not that Contra is particularly difficult or unforgiving. The longterm value is in its sneaky RNG zako, which is why despite the lack of sheer difficulty it remains immortally entertaining and cathartic. I never beat CV1 back then, because I was still pretty scrubby, and its checkpoints will bitchslap you down Dracula's stairs every time.

But this was still a big lightbulb moment in my GAMER CAREER™ (・`W´・)
the base stages are like pounding nails into one's dick.
Remember to duck. ;3

No seriously, when I picked up a secondhand cart for old times' sake circa 1999, I'd forgotten you could duck in the bases and was getting run all over the screen. I was also shitting myself at st4 boss's Galaga flies!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by FinalBaton »

Blinge wrote:Haha what does that even mean!
Haha. It's for "give it to her(meaning : "fuck her real good/make her come")" which by proxy means "give a great performance/show her how great you are"
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Steamflogger Boss »

Did I see something about pounding nails into a dick? lmao
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Yes - it's a little known fact that Bob Flanagan was extensively consulted for Contra's NES port, but unfortunately the Big N's family-friendly diktats (bahaha!) meant he could never be officially credited. :sad:

re Galaga flies: not to give the false impression you can duck during the base bosses. ;3 You can't even shoot straight down! However you can diagonally downshot the fuckers with a well-timed jump!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BareKnuckleRoo »

Highway Star/Rad Racer is an amazing game, and my fave arcade style racer for the NES if not for the NES/SNES/Genesis era (the Lotus/Top Gear games are pretty good too). As BIL said, the only real issue is the music change being on the down button for the D-Pad, select being used for 3D glasses mode (amusing, but not worthwhile). In an emulator with a controller with extra buttons some clever remapping can be done to address this, and it's not too problematic on a console, but it's just a slight issue on an otherwise brilliant game.

The sequel on the other hand is bad. Not the first time I complained about this. Rad Racer 2's got some serious and fundamental mechanics changes that are all for the worse. To explain why, it's important to understand how the first game worked:
Spoiler
The original Rad Racer is an arcade style racer with aggressive enemy vehicles instead of traffic that attempts to actively shift lanes into your lane. The traffic is actually much more aggressive than Outrun's arcade games, whereas in Outrun the traffic is randomized but not directly aggressive, or is fixed to the lane (Outrunners, Outrun 2 and 2006) with only rival racers being unpredictable. In Rad Racer however, enemy vehicles follow specific rules: 1) cars appear at random in empty lanes, but only one car can be in a lane at a time 2) can lane change to get in front of you if a lane is empty, 3) new vehicles that appear may travel at low speeds to present a crash hazard.

2) and 3) are based on the level. Later/harder levels mean more aggressive lane changes, and around level 5 or 6 (which ever one Los Angeles is) if you pass a vehicle there is a very high chance that a new vehicle appearing in an empty lane will be travelling at low speeds, low enough that a rear end collision results in a crash and not just a speed reducing bump. However, all of this is manageable in the original Rad Racer due to the "bumping" technique, where you drive into the back end of a vehicle to bump into it repeatedly. A rear end collision where your speed is slightly faster than the enemy vehicle actually speeds up the car in front, and since all enemy vehicles travel at a fixed speed, you can speed up one car and then drive behind it in the same lane. As long as it's in front of you, you know 100% that you never have to worry about another car changing lanes into the same lane and sideswiping you.

Essentially, the traffic is way more eager to sideswipe you or mess you up than in an Outrun game, but if you use the "bumping" technique you can keep an enemy car in front of you and know that lane is safe against aggressive lane changes.
But then there's the second game, which essentially turns into a bad memorizer that's much less fun to play:
Spoiler
Rad Racer 2 only has 2 songs, and if you have music going it completely disables engine hum sound effects. Songs cannot be changed mid level, either.

Traffic is much less fun to deal with. Similar later Outrun games, traffic appearances now appear to be fixed, with cars appearing in specific lanes as you drive. Occasionally you will encounter a specific red enemy that aggressively lane changes to block you (hello stage 7, you jerk). Traffic loves to go at low speeds as before, especially on the later levels, presenting a crash hazard.

The biggest change is that "bumping", where you hit the rear of another vehicle to speed it up, no longer works. You can't drive behind another vehicle anymore, safe from a sudden aggressive lane change attempting to sideswipe you. Traffic encounters instead must be dealt with purely via passing, but compared to Outrun games with fixed traffix, Rad Racer 2 is far, far nastier. Some cars do not lane change at all it seems, but the ones that do are harder to deal with than anything Rad Racer 1 threw at you.

In Outrunners, Outrun 2/2006, or the Wangan Midnight games, traffic encounters on each stage are generally fixed and travelled at reasonable speeds relative to yours. Outrun 2/2006 visibly adjusts traffic speed according to your own speed, so you never have a case of driving into a car that's barely moving. Special opponent/rival vehicles move around across lanes more, but don't outright attack you or try to crash you, and are basically moving hazard more than anything (if you're playing multiplayer against another player that's a different matter).

In Rad Racer 2, traffic can appear that moves slowly enough that it's like there's a parked car in the middle of the road, and you have to deal with dodging these in addition to enemy cars that essentially are a battle to get past. It's brutal. Because of the huge potential gap between your speed and another vehicle's, with no techniques to bypass this, you effectively have way less time compared to other arcade racers to identify threats that appear on the road.

Unlike Rad Racer 1, you appear to accelerate from a stop more slowly, and time is less forgiving. There is a "boost" function where if you are stopped, holding down on the D-Pad will charge up a meter and pressing accelerate when maxed will shoot you off from a standstill at top speed, but this is incredibly dangerous since it is entirely possible to do this and immediately crash into a car that is barely moving. As a result of these changes, a single crash is more likely to be fatal.

Traffic in Rad Racer 1 is more dynamic, but is actually manageable and fun, whereas in Rad Racer 2, it's an unforgiving, thankless chore to play more than anything.
Stevens wrote:More Metal Warriors.
Brilliant game. The multiplayer on it is actually a lot of fun to play too. I find the singleplayer campaign is pretty tough!
Blinge wrote:I actually cannot get through Contra stage 1 without dying lmao.
Get the spread weapon, and hold onto it for dear life. There is a massive, massive drop in difficulty with the spread weapon, it's that good at damage as well as screen coverage.

Super C has some decent alternative weapons that don't appear in Contra, but generally the spread weapon is the way to go there too.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Blinge »

FinalBaton wrote:
Blinge wrote:Haha what does that even mean!
Haha. It's for "give it to her(meaning : "fuck her real good/make her come")" which by proxy means "give a great performance/show her how great you are"
This is an unfamiliar concept to old blingey. :wink:
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Contra is a surprisingly easy game that's strangely difficult when you sit down without practice, meaning few casual sessions will consistently be punished, which I guess is the cause of the game's undeserved reputation as one of the hardest NES games.
I tried playing it co-op with a friend a couple of weeks ago, and we couldn't beat it - no surprise as he had never beaten the game before, and playing 2-player only makes the game harder.

However I then proceeded to take on a single player session just to show off how it's done, and I still couldn't beat it. It's been probably almost a couple of years since I last beat the game, but I wasn't expecting it to punish me as much as it did. That said, it might not just be a question of being out of practice - the fact that I was super drunk at the moment could have played a role. I'll say though, it's getting harder and harder for me to memorize games as I grow older.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Vanguard »

Blinge wrote:I dunno man i've really never played this before, not as a kid either.
the base stages are like pounding nails into one's dick.
Exploit the base stages' generous invincibility rules - bullets can't hit you while crouching and nothing can hit you while jumping.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sumez »

Yeah, basically just lie on the floor shooting wildly until you can see it's safe to stand or jump up to attack your target directly.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by FinalBaton »

@Blinge

with your skill level I am not worried that you'll be tearing through the game in no time. It's not a terribly hard game.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

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1cc'd Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon for Mega Drive tonight, w/ Jupiter on Normal difficulty. Graphics are really nice and the soundtrack is completely different from (and much better than) the Super Famicom version. pretty run of the mill beatemup, nothing too tough except for an absolute bullshit final boss with, as far as I can tell, a completely unavoidable attack. there's apparently a TLB on Hard difficulty but I'm not sure if I'll bother
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Obscura »

The hardest part of Contra is suffering through the awful 3D stages. Even without the spreadgun, a 1cc shouldn't take you much time (it only took me a couple of weeks to go from "never played the game before" through "beat it with all of the continues it gave me and spread gun at every opportunity" to "could 1lc the first loop with only the peashooter".

I personally find Super C quite a bit harder; there's parts of that game that I was never able to deal with consistently without a spreadgun (Giralal being chief among them).
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Strider77 »

Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon for Mega Drive
The first time I played this game was in my early 20s at a friend's house. I was (very) stoned and was so amused (and determined) to throw every monster out the window during the elevator stage. It was the fact you'd hear a glass shatter sound effect and see glass shards EVERY time with the window miraculously never actually breaking and staying in place. We were laughing at that so much.
Damn Tim, you know there are quite a few Americans out there who still lives in tents due to this shitty economy, and you're dropping loads on a single game which only last 20 min. Do you think it's fair? How much did you spend this time?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Blinge »

FinalBaton wrote:@Blinge with your skill level I am not worried that you'll be tearing through the game in no time. It's not a terribly hard game.
that's what i thought! hence the salt hahah.

You know what it is - I'm actually awful at 2D action, all i can do is just keep trying until oops! all memorised!
That's what usually happens. So I'll do that.

All this was just the warm up to me playing Contra III at some point as Squire has waxed poetic about it often and convinced me to try it.
Dat Neo Kobe theme tho.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Obscura »

Contra III isn't as good as the NES ones, though. Or as good as Arcade Super Contra.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Marc »

Obscura wrote:Contra III isn't as good as the NES ones, though. Or as good as Arcade Super Contra.

What! That's an... interesting view. Arcade Super Contra might be more bearable if it actually used a hori screen, as it is I find the entire thing a chore. And those overhead stages.....
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by mycophobia »

Strider77 wrote:
Bishoujo Senshi Sailor Moon for Mega Drive
The first time I played this game was in my early 20s at a friend's house. I was (very) stoned and was so amused (and determined) to throw every monster out the window during the elevator stage. It was the fact you'd hear a glass shatter sound effect and see glass shards EVERY time with the window miraculously never actually breaking and staying in place. We were laughing at that so much.
yeah I really like the "Uwaa!!" each one lets out
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