Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[mycophobia]

I tapped the shit out of that button! lost both lives in an instant because the game just kinda respawns you wherever the fuck on that section. so mad.

Is this a common issue with Konami games? I can't say I've had any controls issues with any yet, but I've never played Mystic Warriors before either.

it's just cuz there's a ton of slowdown in that section from all the enemies and bullets and fire and autoscrolling that the jump inputs got dropped.

but the game does handle its own internal autofire really annoyingly, in the sense that it will just drop it at random times and you have to press the button again, which is why I use external autofire.

I don't really know much about other Konami arcade games, sorry.

[mycophobia]

fuckin castlevania knives. who the fuck uses this shit. NOBODY.

[BIL]

Simon's creepy cousin Cedric Berumondo does. ;3

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Why the heck did it take until Bloodlines for them to think of differentiating the candles so you didn't have to memorize which ones were special weapons? Having them marked is super helpful cause if you get one you like, it's annoying to accidentally switch, especially if you have a II or III with it.

[dojo_b]

I think the extensive candle-slashing in the originals is a deliberate surrogate/filler, to cheaply increase the perception of aggressive action. It's like swearing in an action movie, or chewing gum for a smoker.

[Jonny2x4]

I think I might had asked this before, but is there anyone here familiar with the Vampire Killer, the MSX2 version of Dracula? I don't think I ever made it pass Stage 8. Couldn't get used to the unusual way weapons are handled in this version. Instead of a whip and a sub-weapon, you change your default weapons from one of four choices: the chain whip, infinite daggers, an axe and a cross. The axe and cross are functionally identical in this version, with one of them having a shorter range but does more damage, but if you fail to pick them up on the return path, you'll revert back to the default whip for some reason. You can also have the holy water and stopwatch at the same time, but the way of using them was also kinda odd (I think you had to press up while jumping to use or down to use the other).

[BIL]

Never played MSX2 Dracula myself, but SuperDeadite has a one-life clear of the first loop on Youtube.

Part 2
Part 3

Among countless other points of interest for series fans, I notice Dracula's keep is a distinct stage in MSX2, rather than the simple, iconic prelude of the original and its sequels. I wonder if it was any influence on Dracula II's last stage? Albeit that one is strictly for atmosphere too. Obviously lots of other things in Dracula II that seem prefigured by MSX2.

Dracula's skeletal mortal body is an interesting artistic choice. I prefer the FC's understatement, but I'd have been ok with his cloak gradually withering to reveal decrepitude within. Then again, FC Dracula mk1 is a duel of such minimalist perfection, I'd hesitate to alter the tiniest detail. SFC and Vampire Killer (MD) did the "realtime damage" thing nicely.

Speaking of VK, I can't help wondering if its factory stage shutters were referencing MSX2's odd, mechanical-sounding vertical doors. A long shot I know, but that's my favourite sort of trivia! (WTB straight answer on whether Contra Spirits' deadliest roulette wheel pick "fatal case of bouncing blue balls" was a reference to Salamander's infamous st3 boss - both games feature the music of Miki Higashino, even)

Also, was X68000's merchant the only one to share MSX2's particular mode of communication? edit: That is, "beat the shit out of them?"

[Jonny2x4]

I always thought that Searle, the penultimate boss from Contra Spirits, looks a bit like the Golem, the first boss from Salamander. since they both have the one-eyed brain thing going for them, but I'm not sure if they were deliberately inspired or not. I know the Facehugger-esque enemies from the original Contra show up in Gradius II, while Contra Spirits have Rolling Duckers in Stage 3.

I just learned the other day that Dracula II had its name entry music borrowed from an unused track in Salamander.
https://youtu.be/eygwHfoJ98Y?t=1796
https://youtu.be/nIxtwiZgSlo

[BIL]

I always thought that Searle, the penultimate boss from Contra Spirits, looks a bit like the Golem, the first boss from Salamander. since they both have the one-eyed brain thing going for them, but I'm not sure if they were deliberately inspired or not.

Good point! Can't believe I never picked up on that. Suddenly the bouncing blue balls seem a tiny bit less less of a stretch!

I just learned the other day that Dracula II had its name entry music borrowed from an unused track in Salamander.
https://youtu.be/eygwHfoJ98Y?t=1796
https://youtu.be/nIxtwiZgSlo

Holy fuck, nice.

---

Jesus, SFC Final Fight likes to drop inputs like a motherfucker, doesn't it? I have a tolerant fondness for early SFC marquee releases... this was the stuff I was longing after as a kid, at a time when the best I could hope for were shitty secondhand rental place NES carts. No arcades either. Gradius III, Super R-Type, Area 88... these suffer from slowdown, at times titanic levels of it, but they'll always respond to commands. Here, as soon as a larger enemy (Andores, El Gados, Oribers) gets onscreen, the command interpreter seems to shit itself. Just an hour or so in, lost count of all the suplexes and weapon swings I was counting on that never arrived. I typically shun autofire in brawlers, despite preferring it in shooters... but in SFC FF's case, it seems entirely warranted. Much in the same way it is in Holy Diver (shudder).

Is it just me? (or my emulator?) Was thinking of picking this one up, but having doubts about that now. It's a shame, it seems like a fun easy ver otherwise. Guess that's what FF CD is for, although I really got that one for its time attack (aka ARCADE CRACK) mode.

[Jonny2x4]

I always found the SNES Final Fight pretty impossible to do a no-miss. Sure, there's less enemies on-screen than the AC version, but they also buffed all the enemy attacks to such a ridiculous extent. Like a single hammer punch from Axl or Slash will eat away 50% of your life bar and most of the larger enemies (the Andores, the fat guys and Abigail) have attacks that can eat up to 75-80%. The input delay issues aren't as bad with Cody as they are with Haggar, but I've only seen one no-miss playthrough of the game online and it has the player using turbo.

Final Fight GUY actually fixes the slowdown issues that the suffix-less version has and it also has properly-labeled difficulty levels more suited for a console game instead of the dynamic values that were ported from the arcade version designed for credit feeders in mind. However, that version seems to be a bit pricey from my understanding, even in its not-so-rare Japanese version (since it came with a mini-CD).

[BIL]

Final Fight GUY actually fixes the slowdown issues that the suffix-less version has

Interesting - before I sat down to road-test the SFC port, I was considering getting both versions for completism. I'm a huge home conversion geek, provided they play well. I'll probably skip this entirely for FF Guy, though. I'm a casual FF player at best, but even I can tell when something's off... this thing is rickety. I use Haggar almost exclusively, so Cody's absence isn't a problem. TBH they could've just reissued a "Final Fight Haggar" or something and I'd not care, haha.

edit: I take back "rickety." This thing plays like shit. Get Haggar, a couple large enemies and a zako onscreen, and all bets are off. Stage 3's opening Andore duo is a great example. Even stage 1 causes trouble, though... jumped clean across the screen with a Dug in my grip, aiming to piledrive him onto Damnd. Totally cockblocked despite feathering Y like I was going for Fierce Hands in SFII. Needless to say, this is emulation and I'd love to be wrong, but I'm not optimistic here.

edit2: Final Fight Guy plays much better - not getting any of the above badness.

[Jonny2x4]

Yeah, it's a shame that Final Fight GUY often gets dismissed as a rerelease of the suffix-less SNES port with one character replaced with another when it has so many subtle improvements (even though it's still missing the Rolento stage and the 2P co-op). They didn't even bother re-releasing it on any of Nintendo's Virtual Console services. They not only redid the opening, but they even added multiple endings to the game (each determined by the difficulty level) and two new items (a 1UP and temporary invincibility).

[Randorama]

...did we say that Alien Storm (arcade, what else?) is impossible? I would like to remind you all.
This, and I am slowly enjoying more Gaiapolis, but it takes a saint's patience to play such a slow game in 2018.

On a different note...I am probably getting blind, but I cannot find a Data East game that allows players to play Navy Seals in a Mercs-style system.
Any tips?

[BIL]

On a different note...I am probably getting blind, but I cannot find a Data East game that allows players to play Navy Seals in a Mercs-style system.
Any tips?

Sounds like the apotheosis of manly DECO run & gunning, Thunder Zone! Unfortunately, last I checked, only its overseas version Desert Assault is supported in MAME, making it slightly less accessible than one might expect. I'd love to be wrong on that.

DA has a few quarter-hungry changes, though it's still enjoyable enough and full of riotous DECO charm.

"OKAY MEN IT'S SHOWTIME"
MACHINE GUN
"SAYANORA PAL"

It's the sequel to Bloody Wolf, which is also fairly Mercs-esque.

[BrianC]

Speaking of manliness, I noticed that two of the main characters in Violent Storm are beefy tough guys, while Kyle looks like Reggie Mantle from Archie comics in punk garb. I wonder if it was intentional.

[Jonny2x4]

I always thought Boris looked a bit like Dennis Rodman, but Violent Storm was made before Rodman became famous, wasn't it? Rodman wasn''t even part of the Chicago Bulls yet back then (I know Konami's U.S. subsidiary back then was located in Chicago and they did their location testing in the city). Also odd that the green guy is the speedster and the red guy is the powerhouse. Usually it's the other way around.

Going back to DECO games, I always find it funny that the main characters in Midnight Resistance are called the Madoka Brothers. I know they gave the guy in the Genesis version a more generic tough guy-sounding name for the U.S. localization, but Madoka is now stuck in my mind.

[Randorama]

BIL, thanks!

How is Bloody Wolf? I know that being DECO, it must be a great game with rough edges, but a few lines of overview would be much appreciated.

Speaking of DECO...Night Slashers has become one of my favourite scrollers. I do need to practice it with a certain frequency to be able to consistently 1-CC it, but I am growing really fond of the cheeky ultra-gore (well, the JP version), the fairly complex system and the general DECO style. Sadly, I am useless with the guys, as only Hong-Hua is fast enough for my taste.

[BIL]

I've actually never tried the AC version of Bloody Wolf - I can however highly recommend the PCE port. It plays pretty interestingly... it's a run & gun for sure, but it's also loaded with little detours and secrets that give it a slight ARPG aspect. Almost like MD Mercs' superlative Original mode. I know AC stuff is more your thing, though.

[Stevens]

I loved Bloody Wolf as a kid - OMG HE HAS A KNIFE! HE'S LIKE RAMBO!

The motorcycle in particular was always a fun time.

[Sumez]

He has the hot bullets of shotgun like Rambo.

[BIL]

By the by, like Ninja Spirit and Forgotten Worlds, Wolf is another first-rate PCE port that benefits hugely from the three-button pad. In this case, so ol' stabby is within swift reach. Clutch as fuck running up on those armoured dudes and digging the knife in like you're opening a stubborn MRE. Rarr! Stab twist kill! Die cunt die! This BLOODY WOLF, muhfucka, not NICEY WOLF.

The "ACK! Ahm... ahm dead, bois" enemy death animation is already pretty satisfying, even moreso when you get on the bike and lash the back end around, getting them the hot donuts of Harley-Davidson!

[Randorama]

When work can go and fuck itself, I will try both titles. ARC, because fooling around with PCE emulation makes me feel dirty and non-hardcore, of course.


Did we also say that Nitro Ball is ace? Pinball+Mercs-style approach+zany reality show setting+DECO VGM=win!

[Ed Oscuro]

I think the extensive candle-slashing in the originals is a deliberate surrogate/filler, to cheaply increase the perception of aggressive action. It's like swearing in an action movie, or chewing gum for a smoker.

A lesson that almost every Idle / Clicker game maker has failed to remember.

Still, even though that's what it was (and let's not go down the gaping maw of "but really isn't that what games are?"), it was a great concept, even as the Konami answer to Mario coin blocks. The downside is that there's no real time or ammo pressure (up until bosses) like one would find in an arcade game - that would make it worthwhile to bash those waxes.

[BIL]

Two things I enjoy about CV1's candles:

1) the immortally meaty "THWACK" when you break 'em (Tecmo observed well - both CV and NG are perpetual arias of thrashing hit SFX and chirpy item pickups)

2) they count towards your shot upgrades, so blowing away scads of 'em with a fresh cross, or nailing arc shots with the axe, is not only idly amusing but also quite productive.

With CV1's relatively methodical pace, it's not the unmarked candles that bother me so much as the enemy subweapon drops. st4-2's courtyard AKA The Inaugural Eagle & Fleaman Show *would* be a breezy thrill of tactical dispatch... but the looming threat of a landmine in the guise of a free axe demands absolute concentration, no matter your skill level. An annoyance for veterans, and given Creature's grave threat to newbies, a mortal hazard if you're banking on cheesing him with triple cross or holy water. (or even slightly more artfully bashing him with triple axe/dagger)

OTOH, Bloodlines' marked candles are a huge help with its Ninja Gaiden-esque pace. Except for the occasional stretch with unique "item box" sprites that all look the same, like in every other Dracula. (st5-1 courtyard... what is it with courtyards?!).

This brings to mind Rondo's very different solution to unwanted swaps: having the replaced weapon spawn in a drop of its own. No guarantee it won't go flying down a pit, or that you won't be blocked from collecting it before it vanishes - this seems to gel with the game's forgiving but not unlimited air control. One chance only to reverse your path or bend a neutral. The 16bit Dracula games are such an interesting bunch! More like individual sequels to the FC trio, than anything so perfunctory as a "franchise."

NG itself would've genuinely benefited from marked item boxes. Nothing fancy ala NG3's superlatively helpful transparents... just Bloodlines-style "subweapon inside" markers. It's only relatively recently that I've properly learned NG1 and NG2's candle layouts - the former mostly just lets me jumpslash more freely, but the latter becomes a different (and much-improved) game entirely. Given how obviously the designers were tying subweapons to specific stage sections, NG3's visible items really would smoothen things out. Instead you gotta bite the bullet and smooth it with you own two hands.

HIGH PRESSURE OPERATION. Downshot going down (sterilise that pit you motherfucker!), Upshot going up (get the scroll for FUCK SAKE), free up time to catch the wind for a no-wait jump (WAITING IS 4 CHUMPS, INSTANT RESET):

Spoiler

Less pressure, but a fun sequence with the same sense of shifting gears on uneven terrain:

Spoiler

[BrianC]

That's one thing that annoyed me with Curse of Darkness. What type of CV game has unbreakable candles?

[BIL]

The king of candle sacrilege is CV Legends. Hit candle, get thrown into zombie pit - gee, thanks for nurturing my sense of curiosity you assholes

(hide under the center block and the zombies can't get to you! now it's not dangerous, just boring! score!)

[Jonny2x4]

The 16bit Dracula games are such an interesting bunch! More like individual sequels to the FC trio, than anything so perfunctory as a "franchise."

That's something you don't see anymore in the current console generation. Game companies were willing to make unique entries of their IPs across various platforms. Even when they ported games across multiple platforms, there would be some substantial differences that would make one version stand out over another.

Konami in particular was pretty prevalent about spreading their IPs across multiple hardware.

[Sumez]

To be honest it's really weird a Castlevania game was even made for the PC Engine. Konami did some great ports for that system, but did they even make any other original games there?

The X68k is more of a mystery to me, never delved into it - I just know it has a lot of ports, and the Castlevania game is the only original game on the system I even know of.

[BIL]

To be honest it's really weird a Castlevania game was even made for the PC Engine. Konami did some great ports for that system, but did they even make any other original games there?

AFAIK, its Tokimeki Memorial was the series' debut. More importantly, it has exclusive possession of the rather nice micro-shump FORCE GEAR, so it's good in my book. There's Twinbee Returns too, can't recall if it's on TM or elsewhere though.

And yeah, I was enjoying hoovering up Konami's PCE HuCards, then suddenly realised I'd nabbed the whole quartet without intending to. Small but superbly high-quality catalogue. The John Cazale approach.

I unfortunately must disregard Snatcher (I can't read a word of Japanese), and would probably do the same with TM if not for Force Gear - so that leaves Rondo, the brilliant port of Gradius II, and... a port of Martial Champion (AC). Don't really care for head-to-head fighters outside of the genre's most essential staples, so that's about it for me and Konami CDs.

It does seem an unlikely but exceedingly happy anomaly that CV made the jump - one of only two originals, and the other's a dating sim. I get the feeling Konami were pushing hard to expand the brand across many platforms, as Jonny says... I also get the feeling that 1995's relatively rough Dracula XX was them hastily retreating to the proven ground of Nintendo consoles. No idea if there's any official commentary to back that up, though.

[Sumez]

then suddenly realised I'd nabbed the whole quartet without intending to.

Hah, there are only four? Maybe I should get Gradius and Parodius for the same reason then. I just feel very content with my "Deluxe Packs" on the satuhhn