Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[dingsbums]

I have been playing Quarth (Famicom) the last couple of days. All I can say is: it's a addictive and fun little gem .
I had it on Game Boy when it was current, i liked the GB version but the FC version is much more fun to me.
The game gets quite challenging and frantic in the later stages. Give it a try guys - it looks dull and boring in the beginning but trust me once you hit level 5 and up you will be sweating (and swearing ).

[__SKYe]

Nice job! Cave Noire is a fun little game. It's on the shallow side for a roguelike, though it easily makes up for that with makes up for that with how fast and high-consequence everything is.

I like how it's fundamentally meant to be approached almost like a Lolo-esque puzzle game, except not every puzzle has a clean solution and most of the game is intuiting which losses to take and risks to bet on. The RPG elements are very well done too. Like when you spend the first half of a mission avoiding trouble as much as possible, maybe taking damage you can't return or missing out on items you wanted to check out in the process. But once you get some good stats and equipment it leads to a cathartic second half where you pay the enemies back and take whatever you want by force. The fact that your character becomes a little bit stronger in later missions is nice too. Even though the overall difficulty is higher, just the fact that I have the option to tackle rooms I'd have avoided earlier feels like a reward.

Yeah, it's quite shallow as far as roguelikes go, but much like you said, it makes up with some fast pacing/aggressive enemies (even for a turn based game) early on, something that traditional roguelikes don't have until you're a decent bit into them.
On CN, depending on your luck (or lack of thereof), you may encounter those deadly knights as early as BF1, or conversely, you may be pretty deep into the dungeon and have the luck of encountering mainly crabs/spiders or other weaker enemies.

But even these weak(ish) enemies will quickly get you killed after a while, if you insist on fighting them all, because you have little HP, and unlike most roguelikes, you don't naturally regain health just by walking. You really need to pick your fights wisely, and avoiding fighting altogether is usually the best course of action.

The RPG aspect indeed good, as you'll be slightly buffed on later levels, but only by a little, so there's no overpowering involved here. Also, notice that the only stats that go up are HP and Luck (at least until where I've reached, which is Level-7).
It's also cool how even acquiring the weakest sword/shield, which increase your ATK/DEF by a measly 1 point, makes a fair bit of difference, so every stat point is important. Healing items also restore an extra HP point or two as you play the hardest levels.

Perhaps even more interesting, is that the danger in playing the later levels isn't on the dungeon itself being harder or containing harsher enemies, since you'll encounter the same type of enemies on any Level, but rather the difficulty comes from the fact that your trip will be longer, and survival becomes harder the longer you stay in there (useful items become scarce, and you'll eventually have to ponder whether you should try to take that treasure chest guarded by an enemy, whereas in shorter treks through the dungeon, you might just have enough supplies to not make the risk worth it).

It's really unique and I'd like to see similar mechanics used in a more fleshed out adventure game someday.

True, though there's no shortage of roguelikes around, I don't think I know of any that plays like this one -- short and sweet.

I have been playing Quarth (Famicom) the last couple of days. All I can say is: it's a addictive and fun little gem .
I had it on Game Boy when it was current, i liked the GB version but the FC version is much more fun to me.
The game gets quite challenging and frantic in the later stages. Give it a try guys - it looks dull and boring in the beginning but trust me once you hit level 5 and up you will be sweating (and swearing ).

Thanks for the mention, I've come across this game quite a while back, but at the time I thought it was just a weird Tetris hybrid and didn't give it much thought.
I gave it a go, and managed to nearly reach Level 9-9 (no-missed until 6-6, but things went downhill from there ).



I really wanted to reach the end of the 9th level but things get tough around level 5~6, and from the 8th you can barely catch your breath.
Later on, mistakes are deadly (and by mistakes I mean accidentally firing an extra block, and having to do another line to complete the shape, or shooting too early and having the block disappear from hitting a shape that is being cleared), and you really have to keep completing those blocks non-stop, just so you have time to move to the next shape, otherwise you're toast.

[FinalBaton]

What are everyone's thoughts on Castlevania Adventure ReBirth?

I'll be picking up a Wii soon to play Rondo of Blood on my CRT in 240p and I might also download CAR on there if it's good.

[Ghegs]

What are everyone's thoughts on Castlevania Adventure ReBirth?

I'll be picking up a Wii soon to play Rondo of Blood on my CRT in 240p and I might also download CAR on there if it's good.

It's good, and you should definitely pick it up while you still can. Nintendo will be shutting down the Wii Shop Channel in 2019.

Contra Rebirth, get that too while at it.

[Sumez]

I have been playing Quarth (Famicom) the last couple of days. All I can say is: it's a addictive and fun little gem .
I had it on Game Boy when it was current, i liked the GB version but the FC version is much more fun to me.
The game gets quite challenging and frantic in the later stages. Give it a try guys - it looks dull and boring in the beginning but trust me once you hit level 5 and up you will be sweating (and swearing ).

Funny, I got quite into Quarth (or "Block Hole") on arcade a while ago and bought the Famicom version because of it, but I was quite disappointed by it. The arcade version really keeps you on edge right from the end of the first level and on. Really tough and rewarding game. Meanwhile the Famicom version is boringly easy for a ton of levels right up until the part where it gets so fast that I feel it's unplayable. Maybe experts can handle those speed, but I feel like it's the controls that's hindering me, rather than the pressure to make fast descisions, Tetris-style. Or simple like the arcade version-

[FinalBaton]

It's good, and you should definitely pick it up while you still can. Nintendo will be shutting down the Wii Shop Channel in 2019.

Contra Rebirth, get that too while at it.

Thanks Ghegs!

[__SKYe]

Played Quarth (FC) a second time today, and got a semi-1CC.



That is, I started playing on Level-4, because I was trying to find a more challenging place to start, and since on my first run I lost the first life on 6-6 and started sweating a bit on Level-4, I went with it.

Now, I was surprised that the game has an actual ending, and doesn't go forever like Tetris, so I wasn't expecting a 1CC to be possible (short of maxing the score counter), but given the that the first levels are pretty easy, I'm confident I would've been able to reach Level-4 (where I started) without losing any lives.

I lost a total of 4 lives: 1 on stage 7-9, almost made it to the end, but misplaced a block and didn't have enough time to clear the shape, and 3 on Level-9, two of them, once again, by misplacing a block, but the first of them was because when you complete a colored shape (these have some kind of special effect when complete, though I'm still not sure what that effect is exactly except for the white ones, which clear the entire playfield) the game pauses for a second, and your movement/shot stops as well, which really breaks the rhythm.

I was happy though, as I managed to go through Level-8 without losing any lives.

Unlike the other levels (or at least it is more pronounced here) Levels 8 and 9 sort of switch into a slower and faster mode (slower being relative, of course, but it suddenly gets much faster for a while, and later returns to the somewhat slower speed, only for it to increase again near the end). These fast sections are brutal, and you pretty much cannot miss a block all the while having to keep completing shapes non-stop.

In my opinion the game is very well made, and only has 2 flaws, one of which isn't present on the arcade original.
The first, is that very pause when completing colored blocks, which completely disrupts your rythm, and while on the lower levels it isn't too troublesome, later on (especially on Levels 8 and 9) it can be a killer, since a misplaced block can set you back a lot.
The other is that the blocks you shoot will only latch onto a shape, if the shape's block where you are aiming is completely on the playfield. That is, the screen scrolls smoothly, and you can shoot at pieces that have still only partially scrolled into the playfield, so your shoot will simply disappear instead of latching, which once again, is disrupting especially later on, and you need to remember to manually scroll the playfield a bit so that the place you're aiming for is completely scrolled in (you can manually scroll the playfield by pressing up).

As for you movement speed, I actually find it decent, though perhaps a tiny bit more of movement repeat speed would be nice, but it's not too bad.

One little tactic (if you can call it that) I like to do is, on the reverse L shapes (where you have to shoot 4 straight blocks), it helps to mash the button to fire as many as you can, without worrying about the exact number, since evne if you shoot 1 or 2 too many, they will disappear as they will hit the disappearing shape.
This isn't much of a tactic, but I find it useful to alleviate the tension a little on the last levels, by not having to shoot the precise number of blocks. Be careful of doing this on other shapes (though you most certainly can), as you run the risk of shooting an extra, unwanted block into another shape.

That said, the main tactic is to simply keep completing shapes without stopping, and using the little pauses each time you complete a shape to prepare your next target.

Funny, I got quite into Quarth (or "Block Hole") on arcade a while ago and bought the Famicom version because of it, but I was quite disappointed by it. The arcade version really keeps you on edge right from the end of the first level and on. Really tough and rewarding game. Meanwhile the Famicom version is boringly easy for a ton of levels right up until the part where it gets so fast that I feel it's unplayable. Maybe experts can handle those speed, but I feel like it's the controls that's hindering me, rather than the pressure to make fast descisions, Tetris-style. Or simple like the arcade version-

The arcade's speed curve is indeed sharper (though I haven't gotten too far yet), but from my limited exposure to it, I got the feeling that the FC port playes pretty faithfully to it, save for one thing: in the arcade original, the shapes scroll into the playfield one tile at a time, so the whole "having to wait for it to fully scroll in" doesn't apply on it.
And of course, you only have 1 life on the arcade version, while on the Famicom port youcan get some half a dozen or so.

But other than that, I find Tetris (on average) harder to play than this, since you get a decent amount of time to think where to place your next shots everytime you complete a shape. Perhaps it is just a matter of you being too used to Tetris and not this?

Though I agree that if playing the FC port, and you're looking for a challenge, you might as well start from Level 4~5, otherwise the early levels are just a warm up.

Anyway, I'm really enjoying the game, and will work for a proper no-miss (after all, in a game like this, with this many lives, a 1CC isn't too hard).

[soprano1]

It's good, and you should definitely pick it up while you still can. Nintendo will be shutting down the Wii Shop Channel in 2019.

Contra Rebirth, get that too while at it.

After that, the only way to play those and other great games is loading the WAD files in Dolphin.

[Despatche]

Speaking of which, can anyone tell me about the ports of Mega Man 9 and 10 in LC2? I would happily drop $20 for 10+DLC alone... mostly because it's completely worth it, but also because it's just shy of that through the old channels. I'm really tired of hearing people whine about 7 and 8 and demand that people pirate 9 and 10 through Dolphin in every single review.

[soprano1]

Speaking of which, can anyone tell me about the ports of Mega Man 9 and 10 in LC2? I would happily drop $20 for 10+DLC alone... mostly because it's completely worth it, but also because it's just shy of that through the old channels. I'm really tired of hearing people whine about 7 and 8 and demand that people pirate 9 and 10 through Dolphin in every single review.

I completely forgot about Legacy Collection 2 lol.

[Despatche]

Right? I just happened to find a listing for it and I was like "this is out?!". I missed a lot of stuff lately. Deep Strange Journey literally came out of nowhere, even though it's been a thing for about half a year now.

[soprano1]

Back to your question, quick googling around shows that 7 has been changed to remove all Nintendo-related references, 8 is a PSOne port and everyone wanted a Saturn port with JP audio options (yeah right, you are getting Elmer Fudd and that's final ), and 9/10 seem to have issues displaying the correct pixel resolution or something. It does have all the DLC by finishing the games once or using a button code.
It seems Digital Eclipse wasn't involved in this collection. Hmm.

[Sumez]

The other is that the blocks you shoot will only latch onto a shape, if the shape's block where you are aiming is completely on the playfield. That is, the screen scrolls smoothly, and you can shoot at pieces that have still only partially scrolled into the playfield, so your shoot will simply disappear instead of latching, which once again, is disrupting especially later on, and you need to remember to manually scroll the playfield a bit so that the place you're aiming for is completely scrolled in (you can manually scroll the playfield by pressing up).

Ah yeah, I forgot about this. That definitely threw me off on the FC port. I think I will give it another try some time soon, maybe starting around level 8? I don't think you should start from the lowest level for a "1CC", that's just tedious.

But other than that, I find Tetris (on average) harder to play than this, since you get a decent amount of time to think where to place your next shots everytime you complete a shape. Perhaps it is just a matter of you being too used to Tetris and not this?

That is definitely a thing. Well, on NES Tetris, movement is definitely a huge metagame, and to be honest, it's the one thing that makes me dislike that version of the game, and on Quarth it's sort of similar. There are subtle difference between the controls on the FC version and arcade, but it's hard for me to put my fingers on what they are, though the game definitely works better with a D-pad.
The patterns that you get in the Famicom version are also wildly different from the ones on arcade. I think the playfield is much wider, which I'm not a fan of, since the game should be about descision making, and not slogging your spacecraft from one end of the screen to the other.

[__SKYe]

Played Quarth (FC) a few more times and got two decent runs. On the first I lost 2 lives: one on Level-7 and another on Level-9, and on the other run I also lost 2, but both on Level-9.

I wondered why for some reason I had more trouble with Level-7 than with Level-8, since L8 gets quite a bit faster, but I just realized that L7 has the bigger playfield (on a few levels, there are an extra 2 tiles on each side of the field), while for L8 and L9 the game returns to the smaller playfield. It may be just that I happened to screw up more on L7, though.

The larger playfield does require you to keep sweeping the screen from one corner to the other, since having to go all the way across it just because you forgot a shape there, can be quite deadly.

One correction to what I've posted before, about the special colored shapes. On the arcade original, they all behave the same -- they will erase every shape on screen when you clear one, but on the FC port there are a few different ones (despite what I've posted before, their effect isn't related to their color, but rather to a letter (A, B, C, D) that appears over your cursor when one scrolls on screen), and although one of them behaves like the arcade version, I still have no idea about what the others do.
Their little pause is damn bothersome though, and I've since lost a few more lives because of it.

One last difference between the two version, and something that will trip you up a bit if you jump between both, is that on the arcade original, complete shapes will begin disappearing from the left side, while on the FC port they will start from the right.
This is important, because you can (and should) shoot shapes behind the one disappearing, while it is still disappearing, as long as no tiles are in the way, so on the FC port for example, you can almost immediately start shooting at a shape behind the right side of the disappearing shape, but you have to wait a bit to shoot from its left side (and opposite for the arcade game).

So the game always has this thing where you want to shoot as soon as possible, but not too soon, as shots that hit a disappearing shape will disappear themselves, and that will break your rhythm (especially if you're counting how many shots you have to fire, and suddenly realize that one of them has disappeared because you shot too soon).

Ah yeah, I forgot about this. That definitely threw me off on the FC port. I think I will give it another try some time soon, maybe starting around level 8?

I'd say Level-7 already provides quite a challenge, so it's also a decent starting point (that's where I've been starting lately).

I don't think you should start from the lowest level for a "1CC", that's just tedious.

Yeah, I don't intend to play the game this way every time, but I want to do it once, at least. A bit of completionism on my part, I guess.

That is definitely a thing. Well, on NES Tetris, movement is definitely a huge metagame, and to be honest, it's the one thing that makes me dislike that version of the game, and on Quarth it's sort of similar. There are subtle difference between the controls on the FC version and arcade, but it's hard for me to put my fingers on what they are, though the game definitely works better with a D-pad.

Indeed, and movement is exactly why I can't enjoy playing both the NES and GB Tetris games, because (at least on the GB one) movement repeat speed is so slow, you might as well just tap the direction button, and this detracts from the game itself.
I very much enjoy the GBC's Tetris DX (as far as 'classic' Tetris games go), though it can be just a tad too slippery at times.

The patterns that you get in the Famicom version are also wildly different from the ones on arcade. I think the playfield is much wider, which I'm not a fan of, since the game should be about descision making, and not slogging your spacecraft from one end of the screen to the other.

I also definitely prefer the slimmer arcade's playfield, but only some of the FC's playfields are too wide, the others are about as slim (or perhaps just a bit wider, I'm not sure at the moment).

[Sumez]

It's really cool to be discussing Quarth here, it's a game that's absurdly rare to see mentioned anywhere

[__SKYe]

Yeah, it's a great game and props up to dingsbums for bring it up, otherwise I'd most likely never have picked it up.
Honestly, when I first heard of the game (and saw it's screenshots), I thought it was some weird Tetris variation, where instead of you putting the descending pieces on the playfield, the playfield scrolled downwards and you had to shoot the pieces onto it.
And this is exactly thr reason I didn't even try it. Big mistake, which fortunately has been corrected.

Though I've posted quite a bit, I'm still doubtful whether it is a game that properly fits the thread. BIL, what's the word?

[Sumez]

If it fits the thread, everything fits the thread. I'd say it's doubling up on the "what are you playing" thread nowadays.
Hell, the game isn't far from fitting into the straight up shmup category - I believe it's been namedropped as a borderliner before anyway.

Honestly, when I first heard of the game (and saw it's screenshots), I thought it was some weird Tetris variation, where instead of you putting the descending pieces on the playfield, the playfield scrolled downwards and you had to shoot the pieces onto it.

I'd say that's a relatively accurate description of what the game is, though.

[BIL]

Yeah, it's a great game and props up to dingsbums for bring it up, otherwise I'd most likely never have picked it up.

Though I've posted quite a bit, I'm still doubtful whether it is a game that properly fits the thread. BIL, what's the word?

All good on this page. This is a more experimental phase of the thread, and it's gone really well so far... as you say, dingsbums contributed some excellent discussion of an obscure, genre-bending 2D action game. I've always deliberately left some slack for exactly that, even before the recent thread expansion - your posts on Gomola Speed are some of my favourites in here.

As a rule of thumb, if it's an action game that the Famicom could run all guns blazing, and you've got discussion to contribute, it's probably welcome here. If it's on-topic in Shmups Chat (Ikari-style borderliners aside, obviously), or it strays too far from the "action" baseline of NG1 (EG visual novels, static puzzle/board games, traditional C/JRPGs, Koei-esque strategy), or it's part of a genre major enough to warrant a thread of its own (versus fighting is a big example), or it's not something that could run full-force on NG1's home platform (Devil May Cry is certainly Kunio's natural successor in my book, yet in practice I consider them as profoundly different as Ikari and DOOM)... it's probably better posted elsewhere. I've always preferred to keep things amiably loose (gets the best results, I think!), but turning it into What Not Shmup II would devalue both threads.

Obviously there's always going to be some grey area, as the above paragraph demonstrates. I'd consider Trap Gunner (PS1) on-topic here, while I'd insist Smash Bros go elsewhere, despite them both being broadly definable as arena fighting games. Where does that leave The Outfoxies? I dunno, never played it myself. Maybe someone could make a convincing argument for it. If you've got some crazy-ass genre bender you think the thread would like to hear about, by all means give it a shot. You guys probably know by now, I like to err on the side of discussion more than strict topicality. Please don't abuse that though.

Perhaps R2RMKF Phase III (that's "Run To The Right Killing Motherfuckers") will dial things back to Late Phase I, or maybe not... depends how the discussion evolves. I don't ever see it returning to the ultra-strict Early Phase I, where even Contra was off-topic. It's more of a shrub than a bonsai tree, but it has to be maintained nonetheless. ;3

[__SKYe]

I'd say that's a relatively accurate description of what the game is, though.

No, no, I actually thought it played very much like Tetris (like, instead of you shooting blocks, you shot tetris pieces), only instead of your pieces scrolling down, it was the playfield that scrolled down on you. If it were like that I wouldn't play it.

Hell, the game isn't far from fitting into the straight up shmup category - I believe it's been namedropped as a borderliner before anyway.

Yeah, I thought so too, though it is not quite STG material, it is as you say, borderline, especially in the 'accurate shooting' department like Galaxian, Space Invaders, etc.

But then again, stuff like Ikari Warriors or Senjou No Ookami are pretty boderline as well, though I guess what separates them from games like Out Zone or FixEight is the manual scrolling, and in my opinion, it does make them feel more like a run 'n' gun than a straight up STG.

To be fair, games like Quarth (basically, on the fence of what is proper here) tend to be very sporadic in this thread, in my opinion, so it's not like they are/will become the norm. Rather, they are more like the offshot games that are discussed every once in a while.

If it fits the thread, everything fits the thread. I'd say it's doubling up on the "what are you playing" thread nowadays.

Nah, the thread is not that liberal. Fortunately, I might add.

or it strays too far from the "action" baseline of NG1 (let's say visual novels, static puzzle games, traditional C/JRPGs, Koei-esque strategy), or it's part of a genre major enough to warrant a thread of its own (versus fighting is a big example), or it's not something you could feasibly pull off on NG1's home platform... it's probably better posted elsewhere. I've always preferred to keep this thread loose (gets the best results, I think!), but turning it into What Not Shmup II would devalue both threads.

Oh yes, absolutely, those genres are very much outside the thread's scope and that's how it should be. Otherwise it would become just as Sumez says, a thread for everything.

Perhaps R2RMKF Phase III (that's "run to the right killing motherfuckers") will dial things back to Late Phase I, or maybe not... I don't ever see it returning to the ultra-strict Early Phase I where even Contra was off-topic. It's more of a shrub than a bonsai tree tbh. ;3

There was a phase where Contra was off-topic?
With all honesty though, I believe that if a thread is/becomes too narrow in its scope, it will eventually phase out. I mean, it will still remains as a great source of information for whenever it is necessary, but there's only so much discussion to be had about one specific game/series.

Of course, there's an art to defining the extent of that scope, but for what it's worth, I think you're doing a great job at it. This thread is great to visit and post, and even when it's a bit stagnated, there's always someone arriving with a game review, a game to be released or some other discussion altogether.

I've always preferred to keep things amiably loose (gets the best results, I think!), but turning it into What Not Shmup II would devalue both threads.

It would, but just glancing at it, there's a big difference between this thread and that one (apart from the 'every game type' category), in that, posts here tend to be either full reviews, moderately detailed posts about someone's (usually continuous) play through and follow up discussion on the games posted, rather than just a pure "What are you playing?"
Of course there's a place for both, but I much rather prefer the more in-depth discussion/reviews here than simply stating what you've been playing lately.

[FinalBaton]

Early Phase I, where even Contra was off-topic.

HOLY!

That's "boot camp sarge from first half of Full Metal Jacket" kinda strict

I haven't peeped that era of R2RKMF, but I like to imagine BIRRU-SAMA being like :

"LISTEN TO ME YOU LITTLE FAGGETS... I'VE SEEN PILES OF SHIT THAT WERE TALLER THAN YOU"


Now here is a pic of BIRRU-SAMA adressing the Squad :

[BIL]

There was a phase where Contra was off-topic?

Yep! Contra was the no-go zone for the whole first year, pretty much; Super Shinobi, Ninja Spirit and Daimakaimura were all progressively more borderline. I was going by melee/projectile ratio, basically. As far as game structure goes, stuff like Metroid and Legacy of the Wizard would be completely OT.

With all honesty though, I believe that if a thread is/becomes too narrow in its scope, it will eventually phase out. I mean, it will still remains as a great source of information for whenever it is necessary, but there's only so much discussion to be had about one specific game/series.

Exactly - in the context of a thread, it makes far more sense to let the definition grow out a bit.

Of course, there's an art to defining the extent of that scope, but for what it's worth, I think you're doing a great job at it.

Thanks. This community has always felt special to me among gaming forums, and it's been a huge resource over the years - so it's been nice to carve out a little niche with others here.

Early Phase I, where even Contra was off-topic.

HOLY!

That's "boot camp sarge from first half of Full Metal Jacket" kinda strict

Yeah, we even had something of a Pvt Pyle character early on too, in EDMOND THE MAD He couldn't take me out, though! tbh, besides the crucial influences of chaps like Macaw and JoshF, he's kinda the one to thank for this thread existing to begin with.

Just work on your timing and general accuracy and the stuff you've highlighted in those vids won't happen. I get hit quite a few times in the safer areas of my run (part 1 going up now), know why? BECAUSE I DIDN'T GIVE A SHIT :O

I still really like that first couple pages. Love hurts sometimes!

[__SKYe]

Yeah, we even had something of a Pvt Pyle character early on too, in EDMOND THE MAD He couldn't take me out, though! Image tbh, besides the crucial influences of chaps like Macaw and JoshF, he's kinda the one to thank for this thread existing to begin with.

He's also the whole reason the Ninja Ryukenden Squad exists in the first place, right? Gotta give credit where it's due.

[mycophobia]

Through using continues I've got every major part of Golden Axe II basically down, in that I pretty much know what to do with every set of enemies in each situation (stand in this corner and wait for the enemies to come one by one, or run past the skeleton and jump slash him into the pit, or get the fire breathing thing and hold on to it for dear life, etc) it just comes down to execution. I would've had the 1CC long before now but I've been caught up in Other Games and doing Other Stuff. Overall this is a way harder game than arcade Golden Axe, at least in its Megaplay iteration.

Other interesting titles in the Megaplay line are Streets of Rage 2, which I think has no extends whatsoever, and Sonic the Hedgehog, which has a super super strict timer for each act effectively turning the game into a forced speed run, which is kind of fitting for Sonic IMO. Weirdly, Megaplay Sonic the Hedgehog 2 is almost completely unchanged. The timer mechanic is hidden but doesn't seem very strict at all, and with the exception of only one available extend the game is just as easy as its Megadrive counterpart. I can't imagine that made too much money in the arcades.

[BIL]

Always interesting, those official "ROMhack in a cab" setups. Lots of 16 (hell, even 8 )-bit titles I could think of that'd gain instant arcade rigour with minimal tweaking. Contra III and Gimmick immediately come to mind. Ninja Gaiden II would likely be a little more feared without its overly-generous score extends, too. It can still kill you in a flash, it just gives out so many extends you won't notice unless going for a low/no-miss clear.

I've not seen much of Megaplay, but I did play quite a bit of VS Castlevania (PlayChoice 10), which basically dials the damage scale way up and the time limit way down, while forgetting to nix the Stage 5 Red Skeelten Extend-O-Matic (get three onscreen on the second floor of 5-2, subweapon 'em ad infinitum for massive triple bonus, PING PING PING - not even the meaner time limit can stop the extends rolling in).

From what I recall, Megaplay stuff was technologically identical to the MD, right? For some reason, VS Castlevania takes a brutal hit to its colour levels... making an already workhorse-looking game downright fugly. Also you get a weird loading pause when going up/downstairs to a new floor, if MAME was to be trusted.

[mycophobia]

Yeah as far as I can tell Megaplay is just Megadrive hardware with the standard arcade-specific capabilities (credits, bookkeeping, etc).

Annoyingly MAME doesn't emulate the credit tracker correctly; as long as you've put in one credit you can continue without putting in another one, which makes it so if you're trying to limit the number of credits you're using you have to keep track of it manually.

[BrianC]

Always interesting, those official "ROMhack in a cab" setups. Lots of 16 (hell, even 8 )-bit titles I could think of that'd gain instant arcade rigour with minimal tweaking. Contra III and Gimmick immediately come to mind. Ninja Gaiden II would likely be a little more feared without its overly-generous score extends, too. It can still kill you in a flash, it just gives out so many extends you won't notice unless going for a low/no-miss clear.

I've not seen much of Megaplay, but I did play quite a bit of VS Castlevania (PlayChoice 10), which basically dials the damage scale way up and the time limit way down, while forgetting to nix the Stage 5 Red Skeelten Extend-O-Matic (get three onscreen on the second floor of 5-2, subweapon 'em ad infinitum for massive triple bonus, PING PING PING - not even the meaner time limit can stop the extends rolling in).

For some reason, some of the Vs. games had their colors altered for RGB. Vs. system hardware is so close to NES hardware, the games can be hacked to play on a real NES. VS Castlevania is not the same as PC10 Castlevania. PC10 is mostly unaltered NES games on a timer, where VS system is credit based with most games for it having differences from the NES versions.

[BIL]

Oh right - thanks for the clarification on PC10/VS system. It was definitely VS Castlevania I was playing. IIRC it starts one-hit killing from Loop 2. I remember thinking its parameters might've made for a decent Loop 3 in the home version (CV1 only repeats its second loop indefinitely, in all regions).

[Vanguard]

Vs Super Mario Bros is an interesting console to arcade port. Its levels are altered to be harder in various ways. Some levels in SMB1 have easier early game versions and harder late game versions, and in Vs the easier versions have been removed and replaced with SMB2j levels. It works nicely as halfway point between SMB1 and SMB2j.

Forcing Sonic to speedrun sounds like a very positive change. I have a hard time caring about anything that happens in those games and the main culprit is that the ring system lets Sonic tank dozens of hits without consequence.

[BIL]

Vs Super Mario Bros is an interesting console to arcade port. Its levels are altered to be harder in various ways. Some levels in SMB1 have easier early game versions and harder late game versions, and in Vs the easier versions have been removed and replaced with SMB2j levels. It works nicely as halfway point between SMB1 and SMB2j.

That sounds rad. Quite the gulf between SMB1/SMB2J. I always end up skipping straight to World 6 in the former. By World 6 of the latter I'm usually ready to call it a day.

If it's of any interest, here's my VS Castlevania post referenced previously.

[Sumez]

Unfortunately the VS system never really took off. I would have liked more proper arcade versions of classic NES titles. There was really nothing to keep them from doing the same thing to PlayChoice-10 releases, (they could just read credit states off an usued register), but I guess it was easier for them to just slam the existing ROM images on a PC-10 cartridge.

Btw: Any palette differences between PC-10 and VS games (and the original NES, of course) is most likely due to changes in the PPU (graphics) chips, not the games themselves. Though I know there are some colors that are considered black in the original (NTSC) palette of the NES PPU, but will be rendered white on PlayChoice - it's likely those were fixed for VS releases.

I've already commended VS Castlevania - if the NES version is practice mode, VS is the real deal - suddenly the timer actually means something in the game! I didn't know about the red skeleton trick, but the second loop still has the 1UP on the first stage which reappears every time you die. So you can just farm points from triple-hits on zombies indefinitely once you reach that place. That's what I did to set a high score at my friend's place who's into classic cabinets like this and has both a PC-10 and a whole bunch of VS games. Only Castlevania and SMB are really interesting though.

Vs Super Mario Bros is an interesting console to arcade port. Its levels are altered to be harder in various ways. Some levels in SMB1 have easier early game versions and harder late game versions, and in Vs the easier versions have been removed and replaced with SMB2j levels. It works nicely as halfway point between SMB1 and SMB2j.

Very interesting indeed. It's cool to play a Super Mario game tweaked to arcade, with most of the 1ups removed, too. The game came out at the same time as SMB2(j), too, so it's difficult to tell if the new stages were made for one game or the other first. It's probably likely they were originally made for the first game, but scrapped due to them being too hard (and cartridge space - SMB1 is packed to the brim)

Unfortunately, SMB is practically impossible to play well using an arcade joystick! Proper control of Mario requires really fine muscle-memory tapping back and forth on the D-pad, which really isn't possble on a joystick - especially not those wonky Nintendo ones that you see in original VS cabinets. It's really too bad.
Maybe I'll sit down and play an emulated version of the game some day, with a proper controller. But I'll probably wait for an legit release (I believe Hamster is announced to do an ACA release)