Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Anything from run & guns to modern RPGs, what else do you play?
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Udderdude wrote:
BIL wrote:"Basilisk Mine Field" NES vs SNES

WHERE IS MY VOMIT EMOTICON X_X Oh, here it is. Image (16bit ver is Ryu being chased through the titular abandoned mine by a roving gang of polka musicians and a horde of giant mosquitos)
Crimes against music. I'm charging you for a new set of ears.
I'm so sorry :shock: :oops: I forgot my usual followup Ear Bleach post, so here it is - pls dun sue meh :cool:

EMERGENCY EAR BLEACH Image for use after SNES Basilisk Mine Field exposure

AMAZIN! His tone, chording, and impeccable technique remind me of Falcom JDK Band's classic Ys Perfect Collection ASTs. Speaking of! Fucking hell, that one satisfies. The synths sparkle, the drums barrage, the guitars scream and soar like fighter jets. Image

Avoid the official Ninja Ryukenden AST, btw - it's nearly as awful as Trilogy. In both cases, "arrange" = "sustain random bum notes over the OSVs with my Babby's First MIDI Keyboard." Shamefur! Image Does at least feature some killer official arts from lead designer Masato Kato aka RUNMARU, iirc. So rad. (click 4 full rez)

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BrianC
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BrianC »

I'm not sure what is worse, the SNES arrangements, or the alternate tunes in PCE Ryukenden.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Bad (yet recognisable) covers of good music, or just plain dull music... I guess I'd choose the latter, at gunpoint. From experience, the former is much more likely to leave a lasting mark. :lol: I can still recall particularly bad covers of favourite songs long after forgetting the clowns responsible. Joy Division's beloved pop dirge Love Will Tear Us Apart comes to mind, a mixtape of searingly beige toothless imitators in tow.

I can't even bear to link the ones I'm thinking of. >w<

Is it something so good
Just can't function no more?


...incidentally (how I love a good tangent Image), that band's characteristically aggressive drumming - Stephen Morris audibly getting out in front of his bandmates' guitars, not merely keeping time for them - instantly leapt out at me, as a young college noob who'd grown up knowing perishingly little of popular music, outside of the blandest Hootie FM guff. It's not at all dissimilar to NG1's insistent backbeats... eg The Demon's Curse (BGM for st4-3, and the climactic "Black Moon" cutscene) - the drums commanding not just the pace, but also the tone, dominating the soundscape with imperious martial force.

*another thing the Tecmo GSM Vol.1 release is good for: official tracknames! :cool:

I'd already associated JD with first-class Japanese gaming, via Aleste, Snatcher and MGS2's various nods, so finally hearing them, I instantly wondered if the post-punk sound they spearheaded in their brief fiery existence might've found some expression in NG1's unmistakably punchy drum sound. Though of course, ambitious young musicians with limited available tools might gravitate to similar solutions; a lot of JD's now-archetypal sound being invented out of necessity, eg Barney's amp drowning out Hooky, hence the latter's trademark "lead bass" approach.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BrianC »

One thing I like about Ninja Gaiden Shadow is that the covers of classic tunes from NG and Shadow of the Ninja both rock!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Agreed, the sound quality on that one is gorgeous all-around. Those astonishingly powerful explosions on big enemies, too. :o Also a true connoisseur's pick, with NGIII's classy Inverted Catwalk BGM alongside the essential Basilisk. :cool: (annoying how IIRC none of NGIII's tracks ever got official names, being such a wildly distinct OST... soundscapes as calculatedly unruly as the terrain itself)

A game that's about to receive a long-overdue followup, with Natsume's upcoming Kage revival. Quite a lot of hopes riding on that one's shoulders, with Natsume having abruptly left sidescrolling action/platforming after three increasingly cutting-edge FC efforts in Dragon Fighter, Kage and ShatterBrain (and a very nice GB companion in Shadow). With Wild Guns, TNWA, and SFC Kiki all being masterpieces of Cabalesque/brawling/topdown in their own rights, this is possibly the most exciting return yet.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sengoku Strider »

BIL wrote:If you told me this was a random UK personal computer port I'd believe you.
Why, is that the Speccy-signal I see shining high above in the Gotham City night sky?

Image

Collision: some
Lego men: We got u fam
velo wrote:iirc Bloodlines expert annoyingly removes a bunch of health items. The enemy placement changes are pretty minor. Some additional ghosts harassing you while you're trying to do other stuff.
That sounds about right. If you've already beat the game on normal with both characters, you probably know the layout well enough to get through a stage without taking 4 hits with a bit of practice.
BIL wrote:Be warned, the SFC/SNES comp (Tomoe/Trilogy) is punishingly fugly. 3; I can only just about tolerate 'em on mute, with their MSpainted art (forget that deluxe parallax, apparently too much for the "S" FC :| ), and Babby's First MIDI soundtracks.
Oh I wouldn't. That soundtrack is one of the worst on the SNES, a system whose poorly pitched sound fonts are a minefield of danger for any sound dev with a tin ear...which during the time seemed to be a lot of them. When I said trilogy I meant buying the three NES games individually.
NGII & III, OTOH, are genuinely attractive productions, with their vivid backdrops, tightly-detailed sprites
Unless you're playing it on Atari Lynx.

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*shudder*
Ayo by the by, the front page is always hiring! Let us know if you ever take down J&J Big Endboss Co (in either game! or even NGIII!) for accreditation.
Oh, it's been on the bucket list for years. My question now was prompted by this minor YouTuber I follow who mainly does like, Master System, NES + Gameboy rpgs & stuff. She put up this video about the toughest NES games she'd beaten. Given her rpg proclivities I was expecting something like "I beat every level in Super Mario 3," only for her to slam the domino down on the table with a Ghosts n' Goblins/Castlevania III/Blaster Master/Punch Out!!/Journey to Silius death chain. It was humbling.

The NES Ninja Gaiden games have been my white whale since the first two beat me into submission all those many years ago. So it lit a bit of a fire under me, while I've simultaneously been loving my Duo to death lately. Owning Gate of Thunder or Nexzr back in 1992 must have been like living in the future. And I could swear Final Soldier has like, negative frames of lag. It's reading the future.
BIL wrote:I'm so sorry :shock: :oops: I forgot my usual followup Ear Bleach post, so here it is - pls dun sue meh :cool:

EMERGENCY EAR BLEACH Image for use after SNES Basilisk Mine Field exposure

AMAZIN! His tone, chording, and impeccable technique remind me of Falcom JDK Band's classic Ys Perfect Collection ASTs. Speaking of! Fucking hell, that one satisfies. The synths sparkle, the drums barrage, the guitars scream and soar like fighter jets. Image
Wow, he nailed that. I need some way for him to travel back in time and put that on a Super CD version of the game. Perhaps a Final Soldier HuCard is the key...
BrianC wrote:I'm not sure what is worse, the SNES arrangements, or the alternate tunes in PCE Ryukenden.
I'm sure Pack-In Video or someone must have pulled off the feat back in the day, but it's almost impossible for anything to sound outright bad on that PCE chip. A cursory listen to the PCE Ninja Ryukenden OST on YouTube leaves the impression of some meh compositions, but no screechingly bad sounds like the SNES version.
BIL wrote:Joy Division's beloved pop dirge Love Will Tear Us Apart comes to mind, a mixtape of searingly beige toothless imitators in tow.
What songs were imitators of Love Will Tear Us Apart? I'm having a hard time thinking of one.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

NGL, I feel a frisson of TECHMOLOGY at the camera panning down with Ryu's leap in that Spectrum GIF. :lol: It was a long, barren road from the arcades to Arcade Archives, as far as stand-alone releases went (with the Lynx cart being not half-bad, considering - was never going to replicate the AC's still-impressive finesse 1:1, but it more than captures the remarkable balance of novelty and BNB consistency; the latter especially notable, with beltscrolling itself still in its infancy).

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Now that's the stuff. Deadly precision! Not so much brawling, as boxing! Player or enemy - you get tagged in the jaw with nobody to save your ass, you're gonna eat the ground bitch! Image

Actually now I think back, the Virtual Console release was supposed to be decent. Never tried it out myself though.
Sengoku Strider wrote:
BIL wrote:Joy Division's beloved pop dirge Love Will Tear Us Apart comes to mind, a mixtape of searingly beige toothless imitators in tow.
What songs were imitators of Love Will Tear Us Apart? I'm having a hard time thinking of one.
Oh no, I mean literal covers of that song. This Straight Outta Woolworths cut, for example. Even The Cure's breathy airbrushed attempt is mortifying, although I suppose that's to be expected - Curtis forever PWNing poor chubby ol' Bob Smith and every other would-be English goth rocker (and his wife and kid Image) when he collaborated with the genre's ultimate sidemen MC Rope and Professor Chair.

Fittingly, Peter Hook does a hell of a live OLDMAN_VER with his outfit The Light Image Regularly haunting midsized venues n' students unions Oop Nawff, as Barney jets around the globe spending alla that JD/NO money! More like Royalties Will Tear Us Apart, but feels is feels Image
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Sengoku Strider »

BIL wrote: Oh no, I mean literal covers of that song. This Straight Outta Woolworths cut, for example.
The first few seconds when the Juno cuts in instead of a Solina, I thought "Oh cool, this could be interesting." And then the singing starts. You can tell some A&R guy thought the song had mainstream hit potential, it just needed a vocalist who sang in a style that people who don't care about music could get into in order to really hit that lowest common denominator. I lasted 3 or 4 lines until I couldn't take it anymore.
Fittingly, Peter Hook does a hell of a live OLDMAN_VER with his outfit The Light
That was really good, I had no idea they put on a show like that. I thought it was just his bitter old man revenge tour, living off the diehards who'd turn out for anything they did.
BIL wrote:NGL, I feel a frisson of TECHMOLOGY at the camera panning down with Ryu's leap in that Spectrum GIF. :lol:
Straight off of Star Trek, teleporting and all.

Image
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

I wonder how much of those UK computer versions was powered by sheer imagination on the end user's part. :lol: Lookit the skyline in the distance :shock:

Hooky never lost that grim oop nawff OLDMANFORCE that had him looking like a 40-year post office veteran in the group's early 20s Image (while Hacienda-loving Barney couldn't wait to get shot of his Image). Story of New Order in audio and visuals alike pretty much. (you know you're legends when Compile cover you!)

A bit saddened to learn Dragon Buster doesn't have a proper ending, not even a formality. Unsurprising for a game this age, but when it's got pretensions of being an ARPG, I'd hoped for a hard "GUD JARB KID" stop at some point. Just repeats the fourth and final set of stages (Rounds 10-12), until you or the machine give out.

Easy enough to call it quits after Round 12 for a "1CC," but what galls me is the nonsensical BOOTY system. You see, every third Round, you get a cutscene with CLOVIS rescuing the princess. But unless you're carrying [sceptre] or [crown] - which hog the slots for your [shield] and [super sword] respectively - the resurrected Dragon will fly off with prinny-chan. AWW NAWW! With one of said treasures, you'll get a smooch! Wow great! And if you gots BOTH (and therefore are going without DEF and STR boosts), the little hussy will strip off in progressively lewder garb, culminating in 80s game center favourite: teh bunnygirl outfit! WHOAMG! This is gettin HAWT! :shock: Image

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Even Ninjas love the Bunnygirls! ...except the game doesn't seem to give a shit whether you actually do any of this stuff, it's just a big jerkoff carrying those useless items around. :lol: I vastly prefer Genpei's refined take, where if you reach the last boss without the three heirlooms, you eat shit and die. :cool:

I think I'll consider Buster well-acquainted with for now, and get going on that Metal Black revival ST. Bustin' may feel good, but only at certain cost! Firing up Rygar, not only did I notice some of the dreaded Holy Diver PTSD (this is where you adapt to a game with broken controls, then return to non-broken ones with the muscle memory still in effect >w<), but within literal seconds, this had happened:

Hey thats my 1UP get back here god dammit (■`w´■)
Spoiler
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A trivial flick of the learned wrist in this game's context - your ass had better be good at stomping heads, sonny Image - but unimaginably, incomprehensibly sophisticated by that of Namco's from not two years earlier. You're sayin' not only did this spandex-wearin' prick waste Jimmy and Larry and Maury, he then stomped poor Louie's fawkin brains out, bouncin' offa his dome ta grab the loot outta the tree? Geeethafuckouttaheeya... Naw boss I swear that's how shit goes down in Tecmoville aka BEASTMAN FLAVOUR TOWN!
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Steven »

I think I am going to try Knuckle Bash on MAME. Will give impressions once I get around to it, which might be in a few days since I'm pretty busy with work right now. PCBs of this thing are apparently very rare and difficult to find. I wonder how much they sell for.

WAIT WTF THERE IS A KNUCKLE BASH 2 AND IT'S APPARENTLY NOT A BOOTLEG? Okay, I have discovered a Toaplan game that I didn't know about. Fuck work, it's time to spend the next 3 days doing research on Toaplan again. Actually, it probably is a bootleg since it has a 1999 copyright date on the title screen, but maybe not. I have no idea at this point. Research required unless someone knows anything about this.

I do need to get back to Saigo no Nindou eventually, as well. I've been too busy with Toaplan to even get around to other developers' games for the most part.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Bassa-Bassa »

I asked to make sure and it's a bootleg because Toaplan was totally dead by 1999 and their protos/unreleased games are well known at this point. This one on the other hand is real:

https://twitter.com/ShiN25548268/status ... 72/photo/1


The Amiga version of Ryukenden AC was awesome as a port and was by Ocean as well. Likely the most impressive arcade port on the system.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Bassa-Bassa wrote:The Amiga version of Ryukenden AC was awesome as a port and was by Ocean as well. Likely the most impressive arcade port on the system.
That does look excellent. :o Clearly a passion project, or at minimum a professional one, unlike that dogshit Amiga Final Fight.

Real Wild West atmosphere on those platforms, precious little by way of standards. I very nearly bought the DOS version of SFII BITD, having no 16bit consoles (or even arcades), and reasoning "the screenshots look good!" Oof. That's another borderline-scam... even the intro with Mike and Steve is completely and utterly skull-fucked, when you see it in motion.

Remember the AC ver? That electric air as Mike and Steve bob anticipatedly, just long enough for the viewer to take in the summerly festive scene, before *CRACK!*

Behold Image

Glad my old man said fuck no, go play your pirated Wolfenstein and DOOM. :lol: He'd become a lifelong PCPHOBE, after installing Test Drive III on our brand new TURBO 386, booting up its godawful slideshow of a "driving sim," and muttering under his breath "What the fuck" before noticing I was in the room (he never swore, and expected the same of us!). "Hey, where's the red car game (Rad Racer)?" he asked me, booting our battered yellow NES and proceeding to spend the next decade on that instead.

I still tell him the MAME OutRun setup I made for him is the arcade version of the same game. Casuals don't care about all that otaku shit we do! But they DO want quality!

YEEEE! THATS FUCKEN HAWT Image Image
Spoiler
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TRAPPED IN PURGATORY / A LIFELESS OBJECT, ALIVE

Spoiler
Image


Oh man, that's some A1 occultic bio-horror! Look at the intestinal tissue forming its root! And the skeletal wings along its back! And that brutal "third eye open" borehole! Dude thats METAL AS FUCK - now, let's hit em up with CONSUMER PC POWWA

KNEEL BEFORE THE HORROR

Spoiler
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Is that a crusty cumsock :shock: Wait - where are the buttons on your shirt? And - did you steal my orange out of the fridge, asshole?!

C64 Ninja Spirit had the right idea. Doesn't have much to do with the AC game, other than its very nice take on Masahiko Ishida's sinisterly pulsing BGM, nor should it. Snazzy ninja sidescroller in its own right. Not unlike the stacks of arcade-deviating, thoroughly excellent interpretations for FC (DD2, Guevara, Contra, Gradius II, Salamander, 1943, etc etc...).
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by velo »

BIL wrote: ...now I think about it, Legend of Kage is this way too, with its shuriken. Dunno how I forgot that. :shock: I suppose since you spend so much time airborne, in that one. Or maybe it's because I always relied more on the sword. I could almost believe the designers didn't want players just motoring along the forest floor, sniping incoming jump-slashers at leisure... or maybe it was just plain control panel limitation. It too works fine, despite sounding like a trainwreck on paper.
I've been putting some time into Legend of Kage without quite working out how it's meant to be played. Sword kills yield more points than shuriken, ok. Grinding ninjas for points sounds like a good plan on paper, but I take it rank is shooting up meanwhile because it gets me killed before long. Jumping into the trees never seems like a good idea, but there's a persistent risk of grabbing ahold of one accidentally. Random shurikens get through the holes in my sword mashing. I don't usually know I'm gonna die til I'm dead already.

It's a weird game, like a single screen platformer plus scrolling. Like, why have a kill-quota counter on stage 2 but not for the monks in stage 1? I'm down for the count at the break of fall. I'd like to make it through winter before I stick a fork in it for the time being.

Looks like it already got a sort of upgraded version on a Japan-only plug and play device... any of you ever get your hands on this?
The Revised Legend of Kage was included in the Taito Nostalgia 1 release along with the original game. It features two new playable characters, Ayame and Ganin. Ayame is a ninja who can throw bombs similar to the red ninja in the game and has an unlimited supply of throwing knives. Ganin is a dog who can breathe fire similar to the monks in the game and can perform a spin attack that does not have much range but leaves him invulnerable for an instant and kills any enemy that touches him. There is also a new final boss that all the characters face which is a giant green cobra that slithers on the ground back and forth on the screen at the end of each second run through the levels. It is the only enemy that does not jump into the air.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

ITS MAHVEL BAYBEEE

Image

Really digging ACA Marvel Land, having previously dabbled in the very nice MD port. The SMB3 influences are everywhere, aaand it's kinda nice tbh. That's a good game to observe. Relaxing, solidly-built platformer with just the right frission of Hard Scrolling Violence And Tactics via its very nice, very un-Mario screen-lashing whip. Even the endstage rock/paper/scissors aren't too bad, some decent satisfaction in parrying that shitty bird and seeing him squawk. :mrgreen:
velo wrote:I've been putting some time into Legend of Kage without quite working out how it's meant to be played. Sword kills yield more points than shuriken, ok. Grinding ninjas for points sounds like a good plan on paper, but I take it rank is shooting up meanwhile because it gets me killed before long. Jumping into the trees never seems like a good idea, but there's a persistent risk of grabbing ahold of one accidentally. Random shurikens get through the holes in my sword mashing. I don't usually know I'm gonna die til I'm dead already.
Yeah, scoring is very much in the spirit of early titan Spartan X, where punches net more than longer-ranged kicks. An early buzz/graze mechanic, kinda! Punches get more XP in FC Double Dragon, now I think back.

I love both the AC version and its very impressive FC port, in concept - super lean, mean, yet varied AC gauntlets both - though I never stay with either for as long as I might, had they [jump] buttons and liberated aiming. [up=jump] is hard for me to accept even in relatively harmless cases, like the even more influential Green Beret. Here, it genuinely spoils a good chunk of game design, namely ground-to-air shooting. And as you've noticed, trees must be treated as terrain hazards, rather like GB and Castlevania's ladders and staircases - if you're going to need a jump/subweapon, don't be near them.

All this established, I counsel reserved, ground-based play not just for the sake of avoiding control snafus, but because it's genuinely effective and imo quite fun. Don't mash the sword! You will indeed fall afoul of the deliberate cooldown. Better to learn its circular arc and timing, as well as the collision boundaries on enemy shuriken. I think of it more as a burst shield; this goes for close-quarters slashing, as well. Even if an enemy parries and hops away from your would-be killing strike, you'll be safe from their own blade. The balance of deadly 1HKO tension to reliable defense and counter-attack is superb, imo, the mechanic I always leave the most impressed by.

As for shuriken, I reserve them for enemies 1) on the ground and 2) outside sword range. Chasing/charging at an enemy cut down on your defensive reaction window, just shoot the bastards. As for jumping/tree-climbing... I don't recommend either, frankly. False sense of security, in my experience, and a needless complication in a very fast-paced 1HKO scenario. Crouching, otoh, can save your ass versus Monks. And leave you a sitting duck VS ninja, so don't get too comfy down there!
It's a weird game, like a single screen platformer plus scrolling. Like, why have a kill-quota counter on stage 2 but not for the monks in stage 1? I'm down for the count at the break of fall. I'd like to make it through winter before I stick a fork in it for the time being.
I consider that part of its ancient charm; "sidescrolling action" wasn't quite the established form it'd be in a couple years, so instead you get a Donkey Kong-esque assortment of stage types, based around common mechanics. There's the open forest skirmish with an army of ninja... the watery infiltration scene... scaling the outer wall... and then finally storming the keep, before escaping with HIME-CHAN for a final one-on-one duel with the enemy's #1 killer.

Pretty filmic, all-told, yet super tightly-paced; always a great combo in AC gaming. I distinctly remember being a little kid playing the NES cart, and finding the shift from sidescrolling to vertical climbing pretty novel. I shouldn't have, in hindsight, as I'd already played Contra, which features a flat-out alternate gametype in addition to its own vertical-exclusive stage. I suppose it was the still very novel lunar jumping that made Kage's equivalent stand out.

I want to say I've hit Winter in the AC and FC versions both, but it's been a while. I can't recall how/if it loops, even. I'll revisit a bit, it's a game exceptionally well-suited for that. :cool:

Such a badass IGA NINJA aesthetic, in-game and out. Something IREM's Contra-hybridising tribute really picked up and ran with, in its own blood-soaked necro-feudal nightscape. Taito's game is more Kurosawa-esque, fairytale esque (a densetsu, you might say!).

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Last edited by BIL on Sun Dec 18, 2022 7:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by o.pwuaioc »

BIL wrote:Really digging ACA Marvel Land, having previously dabbled in the very nice MD port. The SMB3 influences are everywhere, aaand it's kinda nice tbh. That's a good game to observe. Relaxing, solidly-built platformer with just the right frission of Hard Scrolling Violence And Tactics via its very nice, very un-Mario screen-lashing whip. Even the endstage rock/paper/scissors aren't too bad, some decent satisfaction in parrying that shitty bird and seeing him squawk. :mrgreen:
This game was never on my radar before, and I'm not sure why. I do like the Ninja Spirit shadow effect going on with the character sprites. This has shot up to a must own try out for me, and maybe a must own! How's the Genny port compared to the arcade?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

MD/GEN port is good stuff imo - having never played the AC version back then, I couldn't say how close/good a conversion it is, but on its own merits it's a totally solid Mario-esque. It's not a gametype I really gravitate to (outside of the Marios themselves, which are always nice to have around), but I love a good 16bit "arcade imperfect" (see also MD Rolling Thunder 2).

Having said that, it's been quite a few years since I last played it. From memory, big AC upgrade seems to be (as expected) aesthetic, with a nice palette and some tastefully-done scrolling/rotation ala its hardware stablemate, Ordyne.

Quick demo of Kage no Densetsu's first stage, illustrating most of the basic principles in my previous post. I recall now - I do mash the sword when in close combat, where deflection on reaction isn't feasible, and ninja are far more likely to use their swords, much slower than shuriken. When anticipating incoming attacks at range, I rely on measured slashes - mashing there is pointless, and can leave you defenseless. (whiffing early on was to reconfirm the sword's cooldown window)

A few goofy panic-crouches in there, it's been a while and I'd forgotten how hot-blooded the close-quarters slashing gets. :cool: Wicked game, worth adapting around its silly control layout imo.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Steven »

Bassa-Bassa wrote:I asked to make sure and it's a bootleg because Toaplan was totally dead by 1999 and their protos/unreleased games are well known at this point. This one on the other hand is real:

https://twitter.com/ShiN25548268/status ... 72/photo/1
Ninja Gaiden II... but it's Nekketsu Oyako? I am confused as hell and that guy seems to be as well, but that's certainly interesting.

Anyway, I played Knuckle Bash. It... exists, I guess. It's a beat-em-up and a 1 v 1 fighting game at the same time and it's not good as either. Now I understand what Uemura-san meant in that interview when he said that they had no idea what they were doing and that they should have stopped.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Udderdude »

Steven wrote:Ninja Gaiden II... but it's Nekketsu Oyako? I am confused as hell and that guy seems to be as well, but that's certainly interesting.
https://lostmediawiki.com/Ninja_Gaiden_ ... uel;_1994)

Looks like another game on the "Failed loctest to console exclusive" pipeline.
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mycophobia
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by mycophobia »

(re: NG arcade)
BIL wrote: Actually now I think back, the Virtual Console release was supposed to be decent. Never tried it out myself though.
its fine. its stuck in 480i no matter what though, which bugs me to no end. compare the virtual console release of shinobi by m2 in all its 240p glory
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BIL
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

Ahh, I remember hearing that. Cheers, I'm almost totally blind on that whole gen (Wii/PS3/360). I suspect Hamster used the same edited ROM as VC and the earlier NG Black pack-in; all of 'em remove the TOTES SATANIC pentagram rug (it really tied the screen together 3;), and of course the Iron Man cover. :lol: Metal Yuhki loves his Sab!

(amuses me to no end that st1's cover of JP metal legends Anthem has survived all these revisions - their label is apparently pretty assholic, though clearly not on the level of That Bitch Sharon! "Shadow Soldier?" Nah bro, that's BOUND. 2. BREAAAAAAK! Image)

The thought of a 1994 sequel to the AC game is tantalising, given how remarkably well the first one did. Usually with pre-FF beltscrollers, even Technos's genre-defining ones, I brace for at least a bit of jank, sometimes a lot (Datsugoku, aka The Real Musical Chairs Simulator... try jumping and notice the AI response :lol:).

AC-NG not only plays smoothly (I dig the bilateral touch-of-death approach... one good shot opens up a world of hurt, for players and enemies alike - and also, that flying neckbreaker throw DD3 stole wholesale is HAWT) - it also has some highly entertaining scenery interaction, which ties directly back into the action. Gotta put bodies through scenery to get them powerup treats! The latter almost feels like a style-grading system, ala DMC from ~15yrs later. More spectacular destruction = more goodies.

And it has a wonderful sense of humour on top of all that, despite being as brutal as any of its hard-edged late 80s peers. AND excellent cooperative action, starring Shadow Clone #1, more famous backing up Ryu in the second FC title! The TOD system makes saving a pal from would-be demolition especially rewarding, and the scenery smashing gets truly riotous with two adepts putting motherfuckers through phonebooths and tables in concert.

I've no illusions that a sequel might've simply aped Capcom ala several others of the time, but it's still fascinating to think about. Something like CF2/Vendetta, which cleverly borrowed FF's accoutrements without losing its grittier ground-pound driven identity, that'd be my ideal.

All this reminds me, I've still not tried out Nekketsu Oyaku. Got some very distinguished admirers on here, andsuchisdeath has posted some killer videos on the Saturn version.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by velo »

BIL wrote:Crouching, otoh, can save your ass versus Monks. And leave you a sitting duck VS ninja, so don't get too comfy down there!
Ducking under the monk fire doesn't look like it should work so it took me a while to pick up on that. I don't have the boss figured out yet, it's like 50/50 that I'll accidentally shuriken him the second he spawns vs losing all my lives.

What's the deal with fire-breathing monks anyway, they're all over ninja games and I spotted one in an old kung fu flick too
BIL wrote: AC-NG not only plays smoothly (I dig the bilateral touch-of-death approach... one good shot opens up a world of hurt, for players and enemies alike
The difficulty in approaching random mooks for a jab gives me a tough time. Those headgear dudes with the kick combo, doesn't seem worth the trouble.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Squire Grooktook »

Managed a 1cc of Ninja Gaiden 3 tonight (USA version).

NG3 was the only game in the trilogy I didn't own as a kid, and come adulthood and emulators I've had it on the backburner to give a proper play for ages. Outside of a few experimental credits every so often, has remained on the backburner till now.

Overall I enjoyed it a lot, and while there's no beating the original, I consider it a huge improvement over NG2 (at least in terms of OCD level design and mechanics, NG2's presentation is still great).

Random unorganized thoughts:

+ Floatier jump gives it a unique character and game feel compared to 1 & 2 while still remaining in the series milieu
+ While it keeps to the stricter sword collision of NG2, the sword powerup GREATLY expands it not only in horizontal range but also vertical, allowing you to at times channel the same jump/slash land/slash forward momentum of NG1.
+ Likewise ditches most of the stop-start mechanics and level design gimmicks of NG2 (shadow clone sweet spots, stage 2 winds, stage 3 lightning, etc.)
+ Overall I feel like the game is a lot more combat focused than its more platforming focused predecessors. Getting knocked into pits isn't quite as much of a concern, but the game absolutely loves to throw multiple enemies at you from every direction and failing to take them down in the correct order will get you hit. Not nessicarily better or worse since the high-speed platforming of NG1 is what makes it a masterpiece, but its a change that gives NG3 its own character once again.
+ The segway from the demonic ninjas of previous installments to BIO-NOIDS feels like some 90's ova bullshit. The game in general captures that feel well.
Last edited by Squire Grooktook on Sun Dec 18, 2022 11:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Instead I am stuck in the America's where women rule with an iron crotch, and a man could get arrested for sitting behind a computer too long.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by copy-paster »

Yeah I played more NG3 than NG2 despite the floaty jump. Wish the US version could've been bit generous with the timer and health restore, to compensate the increased difficulty. Thankfully JP version is comfy and ideal to no-miss for me.

I'm still progressing for Bloodlines Expert US and the requirements to get special subweapon is still a mystery to me, and fuuck that st2-2 ghosts and 6-3 platforming they're big nomiss ender shit.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by mycophobia »

yeah after playing both of them this year NG3 US is a little too hard and NG3 JP is way too easy. a JP version with US enemy layouts would be ideal I think.

the bloodlines special subweapon i think pops up after just not dying for a while?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Steven »

You get it at random from picking up the book. The book will either give you 30 crystals or the special subweapon.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by copy-paster »

That and you get them by either random candles or the same subweapon you picked, but is the latter options RNG heavy dependent?
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Volteccer_Jack »

NG3 US could probably do without the increased damage and removal of JP-version checkpoints, but in all other respects it's a strict improvement IMO. The JP version hands out sword powerups, full heals, and invincibility like candy, which really lessens their impact. Not to mention how the US enemy changes speed up the pace of the game in various ways both obvious and subtle. The final stage is a work of art in both versions, but the US version takes it to 11. My hot take of the day is that NG3 is the best game on the NES (but NR3 is not the best game on the FC).
copy-paster wrote:I'm still progressing for Bloodlines Expert US and the requirements to get special subweapon is still a mystery to me
The lv4 whip/spear is obtained either from the book (RNG afaik?) or from breaking 30 non-subweapon candles while you have lv3 whip/spear. Upgrading to lv4 whip/spear automatically gives you the special subweapon IF you have at least 8 gems. Picking up a subweapon you already have will give you the special subweapon, IF you have lv4 whip/spear AND at least 8 gems. The 8 gem requirement is because the special subweapon costs 8 gems per use.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

^ Good info on the VK/BL POW system! Even after all this time I've never really looked into it (beyond the obvious of the L4 whip's longer startup window, and ofc "don't get hit!" dohoho).
velo wrote:
BIL wrote:Crouching, otoh, can save your ass versus Monks. And leave you a sitting duck VS ninja, so don't get too comfy down there!
Ducking under the monk fire doesn't look like it should work so it took me a while to pick up on that.
I just noticed it's on the AC flyer, that's some deep lore goin' FO FREE :lol:
What's the deal with fire-breathing monks anyway, they're all over ninja games and I spotted one in an old kung fu flick too
As CIT once pointed out, when I asked similar of the classic "shadow clone duo" / "kage bunshin no jutsu" (used by Tsukikage in Saigo no Nindou, Strider Hiryu in his eponymous game, and Ryu in NRII, a tight cluster of late 80s/early 90s ninja action) - a lot of these iconic films, manga and videogames draw on a common store of Buddhism-derived "superpowers." Chances are the monks are similar (itinerant disciples with lethal skills being a stock figure in the same works).

There's also historical figures like Yoshitsune and Benkei, kind of a Japanese Robin Hood and Little John, and of course Goemon... quite a bit of historical flair in these beloved games, somebody oughta produce a nice coffee table book. :cool:
BIL wrote:AC-NG not only plays smoothly (I dig the bilateral touch-of-death approach... one good shot opens up a world of hurt, for players and enemies alike
The difficulty in approaching random mooks for a jab gives me a tough time. Those headgear dudes with the kick combo, doesn't seem worth the trouble.
Attacking from off-axis is critical, even moreso than in the typical beltscroller, with those TODs; even the Jason cosplayers will intercept a head-on attack. That said, AC-NG also offers an especially powerful advancing grapple, perfect for beating the Luchas' nasty snapkick.

Gitchoass through that phone booth, son! PAPA NEED A BRAND NEW BAG (`w´メ)
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Three off-axis beatdowns in rapid succession:
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Squire Grooktook wrote:+ The segway from the demonic ninjas of previous installments to BIO-NOIDS feels like some 90's ova bullshit. The game in general captures that feel well.
Spot-on; that GENOCYBAL Guyverrific shit be HAWT Image Image

Cutting-Edge Killing Machine: "I've transmuted into a super being. I'll prove it by killing you." Image

Heir to PEREGRINE FALCON MUGEN-RYUU: "Go ahead and try. I won't be beaten by the likes of you."
Image

Sheeeit! It's just like my JAPANESE ANIMES :shock: Image Musta been so rad at the time, for hard-bitten observers; I was a bit too young to really appreciate its channeling of the zeitgeist (shared by its close contemporary and NG-alke GUN-DEC). Which in NGIII's case, is dovetailed into some pretty nice cosmic horror via the BATTLESHIP FROM SOME OTHER DIMENSION, now I think about it.

I love how one of the few carry-overs spritewise - NG1/2's Fleaman, who seems like a random fanatic / practitioner of BATHSALTS no JUTSU there - now comes off as some poor chump who failed the LIVING WEAPONS AUGMENTATIONS PROCEDURE and was either shown the door... or more likely, supermanned through the nearest window amidst a hail of gunfire and took off running. :lol: Those poor bastards in the desert, less a stern Fleaman swatting than a dispassionate mercy kill :shock:

Fleaman in happier times, before u whacked his boss (;`w´;)
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Congrats on the 1CC! It's truly one of those console originals that, while kinder than the most bone-rattlingly brutal coinops, is also tougher than a considerable deal of AC titles; definitely makes you sweat a bit for those end credits.

Same lovely phenomenon that brought us this thread actually! Image :lol: I feel a song coming on.

Edmans I just can't stand to see you happy
But more than that, I hate to see you sad
Honey if you MADE THE STAFF ROLL I just might do something rash (LIKE DELETE THE NG THREAD)
What's this strange relationship? ;3

Volteccer_Jack wrote:My hot take of the day is that NG3 is the best game on the NES (but NR3 is not the best game on the FC).
Pretty reasonable imo. Certainly amongst action/platformers, I wouldn't be averse at all to receiving NG3 on a Desert Island itinerary. The damage scale is a bit silly from learner perspective - more appropriate for a hypothetical Loop 2 / Extreme mode - but from 1LC perspective it's fine; and that item redistribution is fuckin bang-on target, for calculating subweapon tactics and intense toe-to-toe do/die slashing alike.

OTOH, NR3 really falls behind leading-edge stuff like Solbrain, even if it's still perfectly enjoyable.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by Air Master Burst »

BIL wrote:
OTOH, NR3 really falls behind leading-edge stuff like Solbrain, even if it's still perfectly enjoyable.
I adore Shatterhand but never tried Solbrain, is the Japanese version better?
King's Field IV is the best Souls game.
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Re: Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

Post by BIL »

They kinda even out with Shatterhand ahead by a nose, imo. Shatterhand has a few very nice boss tuneups: the twins become an Obligatory Shmup Snake (cf Final Mission and Abadox :cool:) after taking critical damage, while they're easily demolished via POW on FC (even moreso than typical for this game). And the wall-clinging dude's arena has a sludge floor, emphasising the first-rate grappling mechanic.

Meanwhile, Solbrain lacks the Submarine stage, instead sporting an Amusement Park - which is less stylish (pretty much just straight flatland), but I've come to prefer, over the NES's sludge floors and punchable walls. I took the park's lack of gimmicks too lightly in that run, got smacked around a bit in the first half! A nice interlude of pure combat, with every other stage having some form of environmental complication.

Also, Solbrain has that frisson of Badass Licensed Game™, a tokusatsu one at that! Image I'd go with Shatterhand if forced to pick, but I'm more endeared to Solbrain.

Shatterhand is also mildly censored - the Metal Storm stage's boss is a scowling phantom there, a shapely spandex lass on FC. Helo thar! Image An early episode in what would become Natsume's consistent record of censored BOOBS N' DEATH. Image A legacy of injustice, only now driven back via their Tengo Project!

"IMMACUTCHOO BITCH! Hey, waitamBLPTHHH!"
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*plth* "DAYUMMM gurl, when you get them thangz?!"
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"Same time YOU got red blood, asshole!"
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