Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[FinalBaton]

Nice seeing you here kitten, as always. Hope you're feeling/will be feeling better

depression is a bitch, I should know

[BIL]

sorry for droppin' off outta nowhere, y'all, been kinda busy and/or depressed the last few months. did do several recordings a few days ago, so i figured i'd quickly post 'em in here. hope everyone's doing well! i'm just dropping in for a quick post and then back out again, but i figured i'd drop these latest videos off. i'll try to stick around for some brief discussion on 'em if anyone wants to mention anything. each one is complete with a relatively lengthy review in the description, for those curious on my takes!

Thanks for the replays + writeups! Been middlingly curious on Captain Saver for years now. One of those well-qualified and seemingly solid titles I passed up for other stuff, and have never quite removed from the shortlist.

Been a bit scarce here myself since January due to IRL bullshit, kind of on cruise control. Looking forward to summer.

edit: MD additions since my old library review post, several applicable to this thread. Impressions are fairly surface level, and I don't know any quite well enough for great or superior ranking - as usual though, I'm happy with my pickups. Vet those ROMZ, kids! That's why god put 'em there!

Ghostbusters likably basic, tight platform/shooter. semi-fugly style fosters surprisingly creepy mood! I dig the army crawl + fun Compile™ weapon spread.
Mazin Saga simple yet ultra-smoothly articulated brawler, plus silly but viscerally gratifying rock 'em sock 'em bosses. More BK1 than 2; no bad thing at all, imo.
Monster World IV lawd it's beautiful, and handles smooth; quality sidescrolling relax 'em up. pricey for what it is, but I enjoy the departure it represents in my library.
Paperboy dunno how well the AC controls are represented, but it's certainly responsive in its own right. I find the bizarre isometric ride/snipe intriguing, but YMMV*.
Rampart typical loving Tengen MD port of an Atari game; file along with Crack Down and Gain Ground for unique, balls-to-the-wall intense arcade action/strategy.
Road Blasters see Paperboy; heroic port of a hardcore, seemingly analogue-demanding game; compulsively fast and merciless if you can wrangle the controls.
Whip Rush stealth Over Horizon 2; punchy firepower and smooth Option mechanics amid varied, tight stages (deployed quicker than the ambling FC game's).

*I like these Tengen ports of classic Atari stuff partially for how offbeat they feel in comparison to typical arcade staples, you know? Wouldn't trade Snow Bros for Marble Madness, ultimately, but the latter is easily more one-of-a-kind in my MD collection. I like a diverse spread of arcade-tough gaming.

Of the older list, I put Devil Hunter Yoko through stern 1LC testing over the holidays (or rather it put me!). Confirming my positive assessment of that one - surprisingly technical sword action with rigorously tough stage design. The goofy little sword arc is a deceptively versatile lifesaver, it'll see you through some harrowing circumstances. Some of the later-game zako onslaughts and midboss setpieces may seem bullshit, but put your faith in the rapid sword's buzzsawing power and you'll make it through every time. Even a 1CC is fairly demanding, the 1LC made me sweat a bit. A much better-designed action game than its slightly insubstantial hit feedback may initially suggest.

Also, the Strider Hiryu design parallels are everywhere. Not just the cancel-happy sword and love of steep inclines, but the use of divebombing aerial zako (with warning audio cue!) who love to harass with scads of fire, the heavy bruisers who'll hog a platform while warding you off with ranged melee and seeking missiles, the use of health restores to punctuate each stage segment... and although Yoko's jump arc is somewhat malleable compared to the total rigidity of Hiryu's, the late game deals out similarly lethal punishments for ill-placed leaps. All this stuff is generally quite well-implemented, further giving me the feeling the devs had quite the appreciation of hardcore action/platformer design, even if their code didn't quite reach the polish of Capcom's.

[FinalBaton]

Been wondering if you dig Mazin Saga BIL. That game is very metal
Sooooo Genesis-y!

[BIL]

Fuck yeah. The beltscrolling sprites are small but astonishingly well-animated, whether giving or receiving punishment, and the sheer scale and heft of the boss duels is irresistible. I particularly love the *DANNNG* when you clobber the enemy flat on their back. I've only played up to the third - the parallax on the ruined landscape was stunning.

The brawling is simple but stabbily punishing in a way I enjoy, like Datsugoku (FC) with much more consistently tricky enemy arrangements. I particularly like the throw options off of an opening chop... the controls seem excellent. One of those MD games I've kinda/sorta liked for years and finally nabbed when a good deal popped up.

[Obscura]

Rampart is sort of a strange pick for this thread, but I have so many childhood memories of my older brother whipping me at that game. Fucking cannon kills!

[BIL]

I was just thinking about Rampart and topicality, haha (of those writeups, it's only GB, Mazin and MW4 I considered dead certs for the thread). It's the sort of thing I'd be okay discussing under the oddball rule, ala Gomola Speed (PCE) or Herzog Zwei (MD)... which are basically Snake and RTS games to Rampart's Tower Defense, but the execution of all three still feels pretty unique and arcade cab-friendly.

Then again I like to cast a fairly wide net for all three of the thread's main branches (sidescrolling/beltscrolling/topdown). Actually I've no idea how Rampart relates to TD games, or TD games in general really. Just noticed it gets brought up as an antecedent here and there. Way out of my wheelhouse, altogether!

Despite always seeing it in the magazines growing up, my first encounter with Rampart was the MD port just a couple months back, and holy fuck even the normal CPU beat me into the ground for a couple days until I was up to speed. Rad game with some uniquely hellacious pressures.

[Obscura]

When you say "AI", does that mean that the MD version has a "two castles across the river" mode (like the 2P mode in the NES version) with an AI handling the shooting and building on the other castle side, or is it the same NES "shoot the ships" mode?

The "shoot the ships" mode is simple target prioritization. Yellow-sail ships > troop ships > normal ships > fast ships. Don't bother shooting landed d00ds unless they get close enough to interfere with your building plans (or, alternatively, just wall around them if you've got some extra time in build mode!)

The end-screen of the 2P mode, with the loser's head in a guillotine and the winner holding the rope to drop the blade, is one of the most brutal things on the NES! No actual decapitation, but I'm still surprised they got away with that!

[BIL]

Pretty sure the MD port's 1P game is shoot the ships - I actually hadn't checked to see if there's an AI option for the 2P / castle v castle mode. (ah, JP manuals + text). Will fire up the ROM now, that would be very cool! I get the impression it's a pretty straight porting attempt, like most of Tengen's Atari stuff for MD.

Thanks for the tips - it was when I realised the ships actually had very different roles that I started to make some headway. Still only saw the second map before moving on for now... I kept bumbling the rebuilding phases, the time pressure + weird pseudo-Tetris concept is cool as hell but totally alien to me. Very much why I picked it up.

I've been wondering about the FC version, which seems to have been handled by Konami - not quite sure if it's the same as the NES one. I was criminally under-exposed to this game as a kid for all the coverage it seemed to get. Then again that's me with Atari stuff in general.

Just catching up the last half-page or so:

I always regret not picking up DD1FC back when it was relatively cheap.

Yeah, same! I actually picked up the FC trilogy completely backwards... first I nabbed DDIII for cheap on a whim, finding it surprisingly likable within its obvious limits (bare stage design, somewhat clunky controls). Then I discovered FC DDII was way the hell tougher than the fun but easy, knee-driven NES one I grew up with, and gained a completely new appreciation for it. And for years, that was that. I remembered DD1 as a mashy, boring mess, and lots of mainstream commentary affirmed that.


It was only getting towards the end of my FC shortlist that I was compelled to give it a serious look. Was absolutely surprised at how well it plays. It's glitchy for sure, but absolutely not a masher; in fact, it's mashing that'll get you into trouble! There's a consistent technique and finesse easily on par with the latter two games, and it even outdoes them in some ways (deadlier weapons, ruthless mounted KOs, meaner enemy interference, and a couple of excellent Double Bobo fights).

I kinda dismissed it at the time for being almost identical to the NES version, but the manual has some unique artwork of Billy and Jimmy that I've never seen printed anywhere else and all the images I've found online are just photographs. Such a shame Masao Shiroto (the apparent illustrator) has passed away.

When I'm home this weekend I'll give scanning my manual a shot. As before, can't promise much. But it's the last time me, my stuff, and a PC will be under the same roof for the next couple months, so might as well try.

[Obscura]

The FC version of Rampart is totally different from the NES version, judging from screenshots! The NES version looks like a scaled down version of the arcade version; the Konami version apparently goes for a jRPG-ish chibi look.

[Jonny2x4]

i also played konami's rollergames for the nes, a semi-late title by them based on some tv show i'd never heard of that... seemed to kinda compete in the american gladiators vein of reality sports shows? i never hear anyone talk about this game and it is piss cheap. i think i got it for $4 shipped on eBay. it's got definite technical competency and had the founder of treasure work on it, so i feel like it's strange how obscure this felt, to me. most of the stages are free-scrolling on roller skates through linear stages with transition into beat 'em up bits, and there's also a couple of auto-scrolling horizontal segments where you survive hazard onslaughts. it's piss mean, especially in its later levels, so i'm not sure i'll bother with a 1cc, but it was a very interesting curiosity.

continuing in theme of late-life and semi-forgotten konami stuff, i also picked up monster in my pocket and played a couple of minutes, today. seems neat. i don't hear it talked about much, but rollergames is the only one i seriously never see talked about.

Rollergames and Monster in My Pocket are two games that I bought CIB from a local video rental shop that was closing down, along with a bunch of other NES games the store was getting rid of. I remember really liking Rollergames, considering it's one of the few belt-scrollers released for the system, but yeah it had way too many cheap deaths and it was sometimes hard to calculate your jumps to how the game designed its angles. Hot Flash was my main.

Speaking of late western-only NES games by Konami, did you ever tried The Lone Rangers. It sort-of like a wild-west version of the 2D Metal Gears.

When I'm home this weekend I'll give scanning my manual a shot. As before, can't promise much. But it's the last time me, my stuff, and a PC will be under the same roof for the next couple months, so might as well try.

Thanks! I would appreciate it if it's not too much of a hassle.

[BIL]

The FC version of Rampart is totally different from the NES version, judging from screenshots! The NES version looks like a scaled down version of the arcade version; the Konami version apparently goes for a jRPG-ish chibi look.

Aha, was wondering! After recently discovering (to my cost D: ) that FC and NES Tetris are not the same thing at all, I've had an eye out for JP-exclusive ports of non-JP games. Bringing it back to Atari, it reminds me of Marble Madness, which received two superficially similar but entirely different ports for Western and Japanese Mega Drive, from EA and Tengen respectively (the former is generally poor, with utterly awful sound; the latter is of Tengen Japan's usual excellent standard, but much harder to find).

Unfortunately it seems MD Rampart lacks an AI partner option for the 2P game. Basically, once either Blue or Red player hits Start, the other has to jump in before the countdown ends. Gentlemen, start your siege engines! Always a double-edged sword, these disciplined "nothing more / nothing less" efforts. That's why I have such fondness for doubling (tripling, Nthing) up with technically under-powered but content-rich home interpretations.

Actually now I wonder if the arcade version had an AI partner option. I'm very new to all this stuff. Hell, the GEN/MD one might have something squirreled away for all I know.

[BrianC]

The FC version of Rampart is totally different from the NES version, judging from screenshots! The NES version looks like a scaled down version of the arcade version; the Konami version apparently goes for a jRPG-ish chibi look.

I remember posting about the FC rampart a long time ago and mentioning that it was different from the NES version. The NES version is definitely closer to the arcade. I like the different take of the FC one, but I don't like how you have to destroy the small castle destroying enemies to complete the levels.

JP Tetris plays a bit like the early computer versions with one rotate button, instant drop, and no soft drop. The controls are oddly mapped with that version. Tetris 2 is also different form the US Tetris 2 (Tetris Flash on FC and SFC) and plays like more traditional Tetris. It also introduces Bombliss, which first came over here with the GB Tetris Blast. Not to mention that Tetris had two US versions, with the unlicensed version actually being the better version.

Another case of US getting a different port from Japan is Maniac Mansion. Japan got this instead of this.

In the case of Star Wars on FC, Japan got both their own game and the western game.

[mycophobia]

Hello. I 1CC'd Surprise Attack:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4n6u8Z11N8

Like I said before the biggest flaw with this game is the quiz sections, they're just kind of a boring chore after a few hours with the game, but you need to do them so you can get enough points for that 400,000 extend near the end of the game. Other than that, it's a super solid action game. I wouldn't say it's as good as Shinobi or Shadow Dancer just because it lacks melee attacks and the ability to bounce into enemies, but the stage design is mostly there otherwise. Highly recommend

[Obscura]

Actually now I wonder if the arcade version had an AI partner option. I'm very new to all this stuff. Hell, the GEN/MD one might have something squirreled away for all I know.

Nope, the arcade version was "ships or multi-player" (although, interestingly, it had support for up to 3 players, unlike any of the home conversions I know of other than the DOS port!). That's part of why when you said "AI", it really perked my ears; I was envisioning a full-blown 2P AI version, which would have been unique to that version AFAIK.

[BrianC]

Hello. I 1CC'd Surprise Attack:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4n6u8Z11N8

Like I said before the biggest flaw with this game is the quiz sections, they're just kind of a boring chore after a few hours with the game, but you need to do them so you can get enough points for that 400,000 extend near the end of the game. Other than that, it's a super solid action game. I wouldn't say it's as good as Shinobi or Shadow Dancer just because it lacks melee attacks and the ability to bounce into enemies, but the stage design is mostly there otherwise. Highly recommend

U DID IT!

Sorry, couldn't resist. Good job on the 1CC. Gravity sections look fun. Bonus round strangly reminds me of those TMNT GB bonus rounds. No quizzes, but one of them is a number guessing game.

[Vanguard]

The FC version of Rampart is totally different from the NES version, judging from screenshots! The NES version looks like a scaled down version of the arcade version; the Konami version apparently goes for a jRPG-ish chibi look.

The Konami version looks pretty interesting. I hadn't heard of it before. Apparently the setting changes with each difficulty level, starting at a modern military setting, then a Grimm fairy tale, then medieval fantasy, and ending with Japanese warfare under Oda Nobunaga.

Hello. I 1CC'd Surprise Attack:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4n6u8Z11N8

You weren't kidding about those quizzes! I don't think I'd put up with those for any number of extends.

[kitten]

Thanks for the replays + writeups! Been middlingly curious on Captain Saver for years now. One of those well-qualified and seemingly solid titles I passed up for other stuff, and have never quite removed from the shortlist.

i think it might be a little too rockman for your taste. there's also a lot of really interminably long autoscrolling segments with frankly low difficulty and little to do other than wiggle your character around to the music. i wound up really liking it despite that, but i think quite a few people might find that a bit of a killer. there's an interesting strength in the variety of mech suits and how they perform, and that you get them in the middle of the stage and can then take on the boss with them, though! lets you have fun whittling down a quick and efficient run, even if the performance ceiling isn't super high. my play is nearly ten minutes faster than several other nomiss plays on youtube, and i even play the intro.

you'll get a bit more longevity out of the game if you deny usage of the consumable healing item, but checkpoints are bizarrely cruel in how much time they can waste (often set before autoscroll segments in rather long stages), so i wouldn't suggest not using them on your first plays, as i would with a rockman game. most recommended usage of "fuck it, pop a ration" while learning being stage 4's boss, as you absolutely mother fucking do not want to be sent back to that painfully tedious previous screen. the full energy refills for your armor meter are really plentiful and useful, though, and they're automatically consumed when you drop to zero - don't be too conservative with those.

bottom line, imho: don't go in expecting the fc nagoya team's power trio tier of design, but i'd say it's a bit of a gem for people inclined toward easier, more rigidly paced stuff.

edit: MD additions since my old library review post

much appreciated! i've been neglecting my genesis the last few years because of the hell i went through trying to find which model i wanted, only to end up with a model 1 with excellent sound but unfortunately poor video quality. i don't have an rgb set-up and don't want to deal with the headache of getting everything up to that level, so i'd always get this vague uneasy panic about playing my games at this subpar blurriness and being completely unsure of what else i could do.

just bought an s-video modded x'eye from arasoi on here, which sounds like a solution to my problems and will finally give me a crack at the mega cd library. it's modded with a region switch, even! really looking forward to putting some serious time into MD games i've started picking up, several after discussion from this thread or influenced a bit by your recs.

Hot Flash was my main.

one of very few nes games where you can both play as and brutally beat the shit out of women.

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even got some good ol' double dragon-esque hair grabbin'. game lets you play a chubby guy, too!

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AND engrish?

golly, gee, konami, i don't remember asking for all this ;-; <3

really, though, this seems bizarre it's not a bit more exposed, especially at how much of a low price it is. hard to get value like that anymore out of sub-$5 purchases. it doesn't beat jackal still being below $10, but heck, i think this is an easy pick-up just for the curious. you'd think treasure fanatics alone wouldn't have let this remain so obscure, lord knows bucky o hare got exposed for that!

i bet the complete copies are still cheap and that the manual might have some higharolla kockamamie-tier laughs, too.

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oh, right, and lone ranger - haven't picked that one up, yet! kind of hovering in that price range that isn't too bad but also high enough to not quite be a capricious buy. hard to tell how much i'd like it from videos, but it seems neat. might grab it this year, i'm picking up a bunch of dumb nes stuff, lately. i'm hitting that phase where i don't care what it is, just about any nes/fc game brings about some kind of satisfaction in picking up and playing. i think i'm "getting old."

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lol christ, i forgot one of the teams in the game (and show, apparently!) were named THE VIOLATORS. what, was rapists taken? i imagine this show has to be something special.

[FinalBaton]

just bought an s-video modded x'eye from arasoi on here, which sounds like a solution to my problems

considering how bad composite video looks on most Genesis mobo revisions, this is gonna be a big jump in sharpness. chances are you'll be very happy with it

[kitten]

i'm thinking short of making the jump to rgb (someday! need to keep my eyes open for some nice monitors), it's pretty much the perfect choice for me for the time being. if i could just somehow combine how sharp the video out looks on my nomad with how nice the audio is on my model 1, i'd be happy, but this should be even better looking and roughly just as good sounding.

[FinalBaton]

Yeah s-video is really good. colors not quite as accurate as RGB, but picture is just as sharp. Super enjoyable picture. This is gonna hold you up nicely until you find an RGB capable crt.

Also : love the X'eye. Always wanted one, it's a cool machine. My favourite Mega CD bios though, is the one in the Sega CD model 2. Soooo eerie, love that thing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7UxwtkNSjI
There's a bunch cool Mega CD japan exclusives, you gonna rock it with that region-modded X.eye!!!

[kitten]

Also : love the X'eye. Always wanted one, it's a cool machine. My favourite Mega CD bios though, is the one in the Sega CD model 2. Soooo eerie, love that thing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7UxwtkNSjI

ahhhh man, hahaha! this is funny. the very first thing my roommate mentioned after being really happy about us picking up the x'eye was that she was disappointed it didn't have that specific bios music. she's a big music nerd and head over heels about that theme, has looped it for us in the living room dozens of times - i think it even plays on her 3DS theme she bought.

[FinalBaton]

she's a big music nerd and head over heels about that theme, has looped it for us in the living room dozens of times - i think it even plays on her 3DS theme she bought.

hahaha, that's awesome! *thumb's up* she's a fine gal

[Jonny2x4]

really, though, this seems bizarre it's not a bit more exposed, especially at how much of a low price it is. hard to get value like that anymore out of sub-$5 purchases. it doesn't beat jackal still being below $10, but heck, i think this is an easy pick-up just for the curious. you'd think treasure fanatics alone wouldn't have let this remain so obscure, lord knows bucky o hare got exposed for that!

i bet the complete copies are still cheap and that the manual might have some higharolla kockamamie-tier laughs, too.

It doesn't disappoint in that regard.




The boss characters were based on actual "villains" from the show, but they got the names of two of them wrong (typical Konami). Lucy Ferball is actually the late Georgia "Mizz" Hase and "Skull Scraper" is Chuck Skull. Guru Drew is the only one they got right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv7E_nUqJvY


It also has the names of three player characters. While Ice Box and California Kid were actual contestants on the show, Rolling Thunder (the Hot Flash's representative) as far as I could tell isn't based on anyone in particular. I always liked her in-game sprite design, It make her look like an 80's anime character.

There's surprisingly very little information about the show itself. Most of the Google results are about the NES game,with the first page that comes up being the HG101 article. What I could gleam about the show came from random tribute sites and a few episodes that were uploaded on Youtube.

[BrianC]

I found out Vs. SMB (and the original SMB) has a strange control quirk. Mario won't move if down + left or down + right are pressed. It also slows down Mario while he's running. This doesn't work in Super Mario Land while small and behavior while big is different too (Mario ducks and stops).

[Vanguard]

I would imagine that's connected to down + left/right being a crouching input for big Mario. Like, maybe the game prevents Mario from moving around while crouching by ignoring any left/right inputs during a down input? Seems like that'd be a cheap way to do it in terms of CPU-cycles.

[BIL]

Scanned DD1FC's movelist/profile pages, Jonny. A lot is from the NES one, but I figured the JP text might be of interest. As always, sorry if the quality's not great. All my gear sucks. 3; (though actually, Billy's slightly faded appearance in the "punch" illustration is like that on the page too, at least my copy).

(thumbnails spoilered; click image for full res)

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Weird Abobo placement in M3 there! The superb illustration of Billy, Jimmy and Marion is unfortunately not presented ideally; it's faded into greyscale and heavily overlaid with story text. Although still not great, there's a more visible, text-less version here, off the top of my head. Otherwise there's just the manual front (monochrome version of box cover), and a cropped illustration of Billy from the box back (used for his profile in the NES manual). NES manual actually seems to have an illustration of Jimmy (character profile) not in the FC one.

Also scanned a couple pages from Serei Densetsu Lickle while I was there, because it was right next to DD1 and I love Utata Kiyoshi. Whee, storage trunk diving! How to curb-stomp your dragon, and some badass boss artwork. Somewhat amusingly they all look like that in-game, as do the goofy little player sprites. Always dug how up-front they were with that stylistic divide, haha. Black Knight's a real hardass.

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[BrianC]

I would imagine that's connected to down + left/right being a crouching input for big Mario. Like, maybe the game prevents Mario from moving around while crouching by ignoring any left/right inputs during a down input? Seems like that'd be a cheap way to do it in terms of CPU-cycles.

yeah, I noticed Super Mario World and after the behavior is similar, but happens while crouching and small Mario has a crouching animation. SMB3 has no slowing down at all with the diagonals and pressing straight down is the only way to crouch as big Mario. The odd thing is that big Mario goes out of crouch to stop in the SMB1 engine games. SMAS also retains the original behavior for SMB1 and Lost Levels, though they had to have Mario impersonate Shaq every time he breaks a block (thankfully, there's a hack that fixes this). The worst part of that block thing is that I actually lost a life in one area where I wouldn't have lost it in the original game because it made me fall down a gap that I would have reached if hitting the block didn't kill my momentum.

I tried out All Night Nippon SMB FDS via N8. It has some of the same changes as Vs. SMB, but keeps some things the same as the original and makes some new changes. Luigi is playable ala SMB2J and it's neat playing him in the original SMB levels. The game also uses the SMB2J level textures. It starts out easier than Vs. SMB, but the infamous SMB2J 4-3 with the long gap appears earlier in ANNSMB (5-3 in ANNSMB, 6-3 in Vs. SMB).

[FinalBaton]

Scanned DD1FC's movelist/profile pages

Awesome stuff. Legit looks like a Hokuto no Ken side-story manga or something.

I enjoyed the Lickle Samson scans too. The last illustation is pretty badass

[BIL]

Definite Falco / Ivan Drago vibes from Jimmy's mugshot. One mean-lookin' motherfucker.

FC DDIII's manual is especially good - it adapts the game's opening scene into a mini-manga, with the basic movelist following suit. Much like Metal Gear Solid 2's "Instruction Manga" a decade later... I wonder how many others there are.

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Scans from The Double Dragon Dojo, see the manga's page for translations (they also have some very cool interviews re DD4 and Advance).

I think my favourite FC booklet illustrations so far are Top Secret: Hitler no Fukkatsu aka Bionic Commando's. They're uncommonly badass yet adorable.

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Cool scans from this cool page.

[FinalBaton]

buddy got decked real good, haha! This looks painful... looks like a drawing that could be an avatar of yours. The others on that page are awesome as well

Way cool!
Mix of SD and badass brought to the next level. love the frown