Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

[Lander]

Being a grubby PC user, I can only speak for G-Darius, but it's good. A bit rougher-edged than Dariusburst, but also more flavourful and ambitious. The beam counter takes extra forethought to pull off since it's tied to capturing enemies, but is even more satisfying when you do.

It's also likely to send you on a philosophical pilgrimage to the Taito Ending Appreciation Thread more than once

[Lemnear]

Being a grubby PC user, I can only speak for G-Darius, but it's good. A bit rougher-edged than Dariusburst, but also more flavourful and ambitious. The beam counter takes extra forethought to pull off since it's tied to capturing enemies, but is even more satisfying when you do.

It's also likely to send you on a philosophical pilgrimage to the Taito Ending Appreciation Thread more than once

Best Boss SHMUPS entrance ever:

Spoiler

Look how much they are DANGEROUS, without even firing!!!

Why Battle Garegga in the Japanese PSN cost less than the US ones?
I've found all them on the Japanese store, except for Aleste
ULTIMATE TIGER HELICOPTER -TOAPLAN ARCADE GARAGE-
Flying shark! Shark! Shark! -TOAPLAN ARCADE GARAGE-

EDIT: oh is here ! ! Aleste Collection

Mahou Daisakusen? is Deathsmile? Oh no i can't survive to that design... D:


It has nothing to do with it but is Last Resort made by Irem? (i knew that a part became later Nazca and worked with SNK on Metal Slug and Neo Turf).

Oh damn is a very hard choice D:

[Rastan78]

It has nothing to do with it but is Last Resort made by Irem? (i knew that a part became later Nazca and worked with SNK on Metal Slug and Neo Turf).

Last Resort is made by SNK but some of the graphics staff had worked at Irem before. The same graphics team also worked on KOF '94, and you can even see flame effects that were recycled from LR.

https://www.tumblr.com/vgdensetsu/17886 ... he-king-of

[cfx]

Mahou Daisakusen? is Deathsmile? Oh no i can't survive to that design... D:

No, it's Raizing's first game: https://m2stg.com/mahou-daisakusen/ and https://store.playstation.com/ja-jp/pro ... AISAKUSPS4

Also, M2 hasn't made any version of Deathsmiles.

[Nose Laughin]

This is an incredibly anal and hyper-specific question that probably doesn't have an easy answer, so apologies beforehand, but does anyone know the name of or have a link to the track that plays in Ketsui Deathtiny's opening cutscene?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajIYI53k75I

Video for reference. It's similar to the Stage 1 BGM but it's not any of the Deathtiny remixes I can find, and if it's a remix of it I can't find out by who. For such an inconsequential issue it's driving me crazy.

[Lemnear]

Mahou Daisakusen? is Deathsmile? Oh no i can't survive to that design... D:

No, it's Raizing's first game: https://m2stg.com/mahou-daisakusen/ and https://store.playstation.com/ja-jp/pro ... AISAKUSPS4

Also, M2 hasn't made any version of Deathsmiles.

I wrote Mahou Daisakusen (JP Store) and the result was Deathsmile o_0

It has nothing to do with it but is Last Resort made by Irem? (i knew that a part became later Nazca and worked with SNK on Metal Slug and Neo Turf).

Last Resort is made by SNK but some of the graphics staff had worked at Irem before. The same graphics team also worked on KOF '94, and you can even see flame effects that were recycled from LR.

https://www.tumblr.com/vgdensetsu/17886 ... he-king-of

THANKS! This explains why i like all those games

[Steven]

PSN search is horrible on the console itself. It's probably easier to use the store on a computer or something instead.

The digital Toaplan collections are incomplete unless you buy the consumer + extra title DLC, which might be worth it just for the extra game in a few cases (Get Star, Wardner, and Horror Story are all really cool games), but there is one other game in there that is worth getting: the Mega Drive version of Same! Same! Same!.

[Lemnear]

I ask that for games suggestions, because i have the feeling that the only 2 "Complete" SHMUPS i have are DariusBurst:CS and Ikaruga, for quality, value and playability, the ACA are awesome too, sure, but limited in options and extras , same for all the Psikyo catalogue...and the S-Tribute are a leap in the dark.

[Steven]

"Complete"

DariusBurst

I do play this game at the arcade, but this is why I have not bought the home version of this game yet.

[Kino]

Last Resort is made by SNK but some of the graphics staff had worked at Irem before. The same graphics team also worked on KOF '94, and you can even see flame effects that were recycled from LR.

Last Resort's producer was also ex-Irem: she's confirmed to have worked on Gallop, and I believe she was the planner on arcade Spelunker (another former Irem staffer implied she was the higher-up who kicked Akio off the Spelunker team [for making grotesque character redesigns, what else? ])

[Lemnear]

"Complete"

DariusBurst

Spoiler

I do play this game at the arcade, but this is why I have not bought the home version of this game yet.

Is a confusionary way to sell a Collection ..and yeh i know the arcade screen is the real big deal
You know what i mean, i need less-essential game , i start to hate the empty sides of the screen after some time >.< , the lack of more options, the lack of galleries, gadgets etc. T__T

[Steven]

Taito's audacity is quite appalling. They are part of Square now and everyone hates that company for some reason, so maybe whatever reason it is that that people have to hate Square is why. I don't know anything about Square or play their games, so I don't know.

i start to hate the empty sides of the screen after some time >.< , the lack of more options, the lack of galleries, gadgets etc. T__T

But that's how non-widescreen games are properly rendered on a widescreen display... M2 has both you and the empty parts of your screen covered, though. I find that the gadgets usually get me killed instead of helping me, so I don't look at them, but I do leave them activated just because they are cool.

[cfx]

Spoiler

I do play this game at the arcade, but this is why I have not bought the home version of this game yet.

While it's certainly valid to gripe about this, I think it's also important to consider timing of when the different versions happened. When Dariusburst CS was released, wasn't the Event stuff not yet finished in the arcade game, or still ongoing at the time so it was either unavailable to be included, or kept arcade-only due to how new it was? Perhaps I am wrong.

Then AC EX+ included everything from the arcade, but eliminated CS, which really is a completely different game, so personally I do not see this as a problem at all. Perhaps I am biased because I think CS is a vastly inferior version that I didn't want though.

Then CS Core was meant to be a companion with AC EX+ to give the rest back to you.

It's also relevant to consider what platforms everything is on. CS Core is only available on Switch if I am not mistaken.

What companies own licenses may be an issue here as well? There's the ININ/SLG thing of ININ making separate releases anyway as with Raystorm/Raycrisis with no Rayforce, but also the thing with CS having Chara-Ani involved, who as far as I can tell are out of the videogame business now.

I'd suspect Inin/SLG meddling having more to do with this happening than anything from Taito. Taito can be blamed if they accept any kind of requirements for their own releases because of ININ/SLG of course.

My own opinion that I'm sure isn't shared in general--I bought CS for the PSVita to play on PSTV when it was new-ish. This was before I had decided to buy a PS4 which is why I got that version. I absolutely hated CS mode, but really liked the arcade game. I gripe here all the time about Darius games that have less width than their original versions feeling cramped and compromised in how they play, and I feel exactly the same way about CS. Besides that, I think the new stages aren't well designed. And there's Freedom. So I am aware my own particular biases play into my view on this subject.

[Lander]

The PS4 and Steam versions of DBCS had event mode back in 2015, as best I can tell. It was in when I got my copy, and I don't see any major patch notes that suggest it was finished up after the fact.

It's notable that CS Core includes 6 of the DLC packs, but that's only a fraction of the 15-or-so that came out over 2016-2017 (and at this point, total up to more than the still-premium cost of the game itself), so it's not the major value proposition that it otherwise could be unless you put major weight on the extra CS / Arrange content.
And it's not even all that as DLC goes; cameo ships are a fun idea, but they didn't put in the effort to make them playable across the board, which is pretty disappointing given how numerous and expensive they are.

Seeing as the precedent was already set for a-la-carte DLC extension, bisecting the Switch version for the sake of manipulating double dippers just comes off as cynical to me when there could have been a proper singular definitive version.
Platform exclusivity is no excuse (ever, really, but especially not for a rerelease) - that's just more leverage.

[cfx]

The PS4 and Steam versions of DBCS had event mode back in 2015, as best I can tell. It was in when I got my copy, and I don't see any major patch notes that suggest it was finished up after the fact.

I just was going by what that chart shows, which claims CS doesn't have event mode, and shows the PS4 case. If it's actually in the game, then I don't know what the point of the chart even is.

As far as splitting the Switch version, that's just SOP for ININ/SLG. DLC missing from CS Core is pretty funny coming from SLG though, since one the things the go on about is how their versions of games include all patches and DLC on the disc/cartridge.

[DGR114]

Can anyone point me to some stage routing guides for DDP DOJ Stage 5? I've been practicing a 1ALL of DOJ Tamashii Easy (yes, easy mode for unskilled idiots like me -_-) since March and stage 5 has been absolutely destroying me every time I attempt a run. I can reach a little past halfway and then I'm out of lives. I'm using Type B Shotia if ship selection matters.

[To Far Away Times]

Can anyone point me to some stage routing guides for DDP DOJ Stage 5? I've been practicing a 1ALL of DOJ Tamashii Easy (yes, easy mode for unskilled idiots like me -_-) since March and stage 5 has been absolutely destroying me every time I attempt a run. I can reach a little past halfway and then I'm out of lives. I'm using Type B Shotia if ship selection matters.

I memo'd the first four stages of the BL version to the point that my first death was on the cannon at stage four and then I bomb spammed through stage 5 like it was DDP.

[Lemnear]

The PS4 and Steam versions of DBCS had event mode back in 2015, as best I can tell. It was in when I got my copy, and I don't see any major patch notes that suggest it was finished up after the fact.

I just was going by what that chart shows, which claims CS doesn't have event mode, and shows the PS4 case. If it's actually in the game, then I don't know what the point of the chart even is.

As far as splitting the Switch version, that's just SOP for ININ/SLG. DLC missing from CS Core is pretty funny coming from SLG though, since one the things the go on about is how their versions of games include all patches and DLC on the disc/cartridge.

Actually the Event Mode is not available on DBCS. The first DariusBurst:CS released is probably the best, it have both the CS and AC mode (and AC EX mode too), and that "nearly infinite" mode which i don't remember the name...+ Darius Odyssey included, not like the steam version that sells it separetely . Oh someone have ever translated that?
_____

How many Original games M2 developed apart GG Aleste 3 and the upcoming Aleste Branch?

[Steven]

Spoiler

I do play this game at the arcade, but this is why I have not bought the home version of this game yet.

While it's certainly valid to gripe about this, I think it's also important to consider timing of when the different versions happened. When Dariusburst CS was released, wasn't the Event stuff not yet finished in the arcade game, or still ongoing at the time so it was either unavailable to be included, or kept arcade-only due to how new it was? Perhaps I am wrong.

Then AC EX+ included everything from the arcade, but eliminated CS, which really is a completely different game, so personally I do not see this as a problem at all. Perhaps I am biased because I think CS is a vastly inferior version that I didn't want though.

Then CS Core was meant to be a companion with AC EX+ to give the rest back to you.

It's also relevant to consider what platforms everything is on. CS Core is only available on Switch if I am not mistaken.

What companies own licenses may be an issue here as well? There's the ININ/SLG thing of ININ making separate releases anyway as with Raystorm/Raycrisis with no Rayforce, but also the thing with CS having Chara-Ani involved, who as far as I can tell are out of the videogame business now.

I'd suspect Inin/SLG meddling having more to do with this happening than anything from Taito. Taito can be blamed if they accept any kind of requirements for their own releases because of ININ/SLG of course.

My own opinion that I'm sure isn't shared in general--I bought CS for the PSVita to play on PSTV when it was new-ish. This was before I had decided to buy a PS4 which is why I got that version. I absolutely hated CS mode, but really liked the arcade game. I gripe here all the time about Darius games that have less width than their original versions feeling cramped and compromised in how they play, and I feel exactly the same way about CS. Besides that, I think the new stages aren't well designed. And there's Freedom. So I am aware my own particular biases play into my view on this subject.

They should at least put all of the stuff that they own the licenses for together in one SKU. That they haven't is quite strange.

How many Original games M2 developed apart GG Aleste 3 and the upcoming Aleste Branch?

Senjin Aleste, Tokyo School Life, Gradius ReBirth, Castlevania The Adventure ReBirth, Contra ReBirth, and several Mega Drive conversions of various games, if you want to count those, are the ones I know of.

[Lemnear]

How many Original games M2 developed apart GG Aleste 3 and the upcoming Aleste Branch?

Senjin Aleste, Tokyo School Life, Gradius ReBirth, Castlevania The Adventure ReBirth, Contra ReBirth, and several Mega Drive conversions of various games, if you want to count those, are the ones I know of.

those are new chapters? WOW! I don't think that exist another developer who has had the occasion to manage so many masterpieces series..nor making new chapters for them.

FINALLY opened my Japan PSN account, please don't tell to Sony that i don't live in Hokkaido (VenusGaiden)
Damn i'm so thorned between Aleste Collection (for GG Aleste 3), or Ketsui Deathtiny, because most of it's bullet patterns are sartorially taylored on me!
EDIT: Actually training with Ketsui 2003/01/01 Master Ver , idk what are the difference but this is the version i have.

yesterday i had a revelation...while checking SHMUPS, i have the feelings that i have ALREADY saw some of them at one of the few Arcades i've gone in the past (literrally only 4), i have vague memories of stuff like Ketsui and Raiden III/IV , but those stuff are japanese only...so idk if they where exported cabinets or something really really similar to them, that arcade was the biggest i remember and had practically only games from 2000 to mid-2000 with a PS2-like pushed graphic, and i'm also sure there was a Ridge Racer game and an Arcana Heart.
There are similar games released in EU as arcade?

[Lemnear]

How many SHMUPS philosophy//style exist? what are the main current and which are their spawn or evolutions?

i definetly notice at least 3 distinct styles:

"Compile/Hudson"
"R-Type/Gradius/Darius"
"CAVE"

Is CAVE style the evolution of Toaplan? or is a branch?
Where Psikyo belongs with it's game philosophy? Are the evolution of Capcom's 194X series?
Where Raizing belongs?

"Treasure/Takumi"are in the "Outsiders" group?

[Steven]

In Japan, the term 東亜節 (Toa-bushi) is used to refer to both Toaplan's game design philosophy and Toaplan's music style (Uemura considers Toaplan composer Tomizawa Toshiaki to have his own style, which he calls Tomizawa-bushi, a type of disco sound. If you've played Vimana, that's 100% pure Tomizawa-bushi).

I could talk about both types of Toa-bushi forever and I am sure nobody wants to read some massive thing about either Toaplan's music and game design philosophy AGAIN, but I can say this: CAVE is completely different from Toaplan, and no, Batsugun is not really "a Toaplan game" at all. Its design is totally different. Even Yuge himself said this in the book that comes with City Connection's Batsugun.

You can't really say (company)'s style is (whatever) in a lot of instances; for Raizing, the Yagawa games are very different from the games that were done by the guys that came from Compile or wherever, and Toaplan games have like 4 to 6 separate styles if you really think about it (Yuge and Uemura are very similar to each other, but you also have Nozawa, IKD, Iwakura, Ohta Lee/Osamu and Ohta Toshiaki, etc. Don't know too much about the Ohtas, though). Yagawa's CAVE games are also apparently closer to Garegga/Batrider/Bakraid than they are to DDP or whatever, but I haven't played any of his CAVE games yet.

[Lemnear]

In Japan, the term 東亜節 (Toa-bushi) is used to refer to both Toaplan's game design philosophy and Toaplan's music style (Uemura considers Toaplan composer Tomizawa Toshiaki to have his own style, which he calls Tomizawa-bushi, a type of disco sound. If you've played Vimana, that's 100% pure Tomizawa-bushi).

I could talk about both types of Toa-bushi forever and I am sure nobody wants to read some massive thing about either Toaplan's music and game design philosophy AGAIN, but I can say this: CAVE is completely different from Toaplan, and no, Batsugun is not really "a Toaplan game" at all. Its design is totally different. Even Yuge himself said this in the book that comes with City Connection's Batsugun.

You can't really say (company)'s style is (whatever) in a lot of instances; for Raizing, the Yagawa games are very different from the games that were done by the guys that came from Compile or wherever, and Toaplan games have like 4 to 6 separate styles if you really think about it (Yuge and Uemura are very similar to each other, but you also have Nozawa, IKD, Iwakura, Ohta Lee/Osamu and Ohta Toshiaki, etc. Don't know too much about the Ohtas, though). Yagawa's CAVE games are also apparently closer to Garegga/Batrider/Bakraid than they are to DDP or whatever, but I haven't played any of his CAVE games yet.

these are very interesting information!

I thought about it while trying (again) Battle Garegga. I suck so much in that game...and maybe is because everything looks "weird" to me, how the planes moves, the hitbox, the bullets speeds, the bullet patterns, boss attack timing, i've never played a STG that is similar to this in any of its aspects. I have no experience of games with this "style", but is also the trademark game of Raizing. Is 1944 an example? Is the only Raizing game that i've played before Garegga, and i hated everything about it. Looks similar in some aspects...
I've also readen often about Raiden-styles game, but i've never played Raiden and i don't know how their game philosophy is.
Yagawa WIKI

I'm impressed by his occupations

Spoiler

[Steven]

lol 1944 The Loop Master was made by Yuge and Uemura from Toaplan. It's closer to being 4:3 Hishouzame with player HP than it is to anything else. When I asked Yuge about it earlier this year he said it was extremely difficult to make because of the aspect ratio.

[Rastan78]

I wonder why they went with 4:3 for 1944 in the first place? Also it's weird how there are no credits and they left it a mystery who did the development. Wouldn't you want to flaunt the fact that you had developers like them involved? And you would never guess that bc they didn't work with Capcom or Raizing (except Uemura doing sound programming on Bakraid I think) Would be cool to hear more about the history of the game eventually if that all comes out.

[Steven]

I think either Capcom or Raizing wanted it to be 4:3 for some reason. I don't remember exactly what Yuge-san said, but I think he may have said something like that. There is very little information about their involvement in the development. Unfortunately, I have a terrible memory and didn't understand some of the stuff that he said in person, but I do have this doujin magazine



In his interview in this magazine, he basically says

"You know about Capcom's 1944 The Loop Master, right? That was after 1941. Uemura and I made that together, and it was my last game as a programmer."

That's about it.

What I do remember is that the game's development was a request from Capcom to Raizing, although I am not sure exactly how Yuge and Uemura got involved. It was post-Bakraid, so Raizing might have asked Uemura to do it because of his work on Bakraid and them knowing his development history.

except Uemura doing sound programming on Bakraid I think

He did make the sound driver for Bakraid. He is interviewed in this magazine as well and he actually mentions that in his interview. In the game's credits he's listed as Z80 programmer or something like that.

[Bassa-Bassa]

I wonder why they went with 4:3 for 1944 in the first place? Also it's weird how there are no credits and they left it a mystery who did the development. Wouldn't you want to flaunt the fact that you had developers like them involved? And you would never guess that bc they didn't work with Capcom or Raizing (except Uemura doing sound programming on Bakraid I think) Would be cool to hear more about the history of the game eventually if that all comes out.

I may be wrong, but 1944 being part of that STG genre revival Capcom wanted those years, which ideally would have echoed in the home market specially with classic, well-known franchises like the 1942 series, I find it quite clear they had this factor in mind (despite the game not getting in the end a home port due to how the previous games from the campaign -and the game itself in the arcades- performed). And vertical monitor games always were an issue for home systems, even after tate option had become commonplace - how many potential consumers could use it or how many liked their games displayed in a window. So more than likely, it was a Capcom dictation which could also be seen before on Giga Wing and Mars Matrix (I'd mention even Progear) and only Great Mahou Daisakusen evaded for being Raizing's own franchise.

I don't find too weird getting no actual credits in a Capcom game, either. Even promo materials barely mention Eighting/Raizing, unlike all the other co-authored STG releases from the campaign. I'd even believe that Capcom itself didn't even know that Yuge and Uemura were on board and Raizing preferred to keep it for themselves, it's not like their popularity back then would sell a game.

[cfx]

I wonder why they went with 4:3 for 1944 in the first place? Also it's weird how there are no credits and they left it a mystery who did the development. Wouldn't you want to flaunt the fact that you had developers like them involved? And you would never guess that bc they didn't work with Capcom or Raizing (except Uemura doing sound programming on Bakraid I think) Would be cool to hear more about the history of the game eventually if that all comes out.

I may be wrong, but 1944 being part of that STG genre revival Capcom wanted those years, which ideally would have echoed in the home market specially with classic, well-known franchises like the 1942 series, I find it quite clear they had this factor in mind (despite the game not getting in the end a home port due to how the previous games from the campaign -and the game itself in the arcades- performed). And vertical monitor games always were an issue for home systems, even after tate option had become commonplace - how many potential consumers could use it or how many liked their games displayed in a window. So more than likely, it was a Capcom dictation which could also be seen before on Giga Wing and Mars Matrix (I'd mention even Progear) and only Great Mahou Daisakusen evaded for being Raizing's own franchise.

Semi-related to your thoughts here, I felt that these games being on CPS-II may have also played into it. Not that you can't have a vertical game on the hardware, obviously, as Great Mahou Daisakusen also showed they were willing to do, but still, if they wanted to make the games changeable in a cabinet with the least hassle possible and thus the largest possible potential customer base to sell to, keeping them all horizontal meant it was just as simple as changing a MVS game in a Neo Geo cabinet; just pull off the CPS-II B board of whatever other game was in the cabinet, stick on the one for 1944 or Giga Wing, and you're ready to go witout having to change the monitor orientaton, assuming the cabinet in use even allowed for that. I guess all Japanese cabs have that option, but US ones didn't necessariliy.

I have no evidence of that though, so maybe total nonsense.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Maybe, though I think game centers used to have some permanent vertical monitor cabs so they just changed the full PCB there with no much hassle. The question is if they actually thought they would sell the game overseas - if that was in their minds I'd find your theory really plausible, but I don't think that was the case in the year 2000, lol.

[Steven]

I wonder why they went with 4:3 for 1944 in the first place? Also it's weird how there are no credits and they left it a mystery who did the development. Wouldn't you want to flaunt the fact that you had developers like them involved? And you would never guess that bc they didn't work with Capcom or Raizing (except Uemura doing sound programming on Bakraid I think) Would be cool to hear more about the history of the game eventually if that all comes out.

I may be wrong, but 1944 being part of that STG genre revival Capcom wanted those years

I think I saw something about this as well, and I think Progear might have also been a part of the project. I don't remember where I saw this, though. Too bad Loop Master never got released on the Dreamcast or whatever, but it's on the MiSTer now, and that's good enough for me.