Haven't tried Gun.Frontier yetLethe wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 4:15 pmGaregga is just Gun Frontier with autofire. RayForce is just Xevious with lock-ons, but for some reason 98% of post-RF games with reticles are referencing the Ray series and not Xevious.
You say this, like so many other people, but why are any of those things true?
Garegga rank existed to make the game unfair so players put more coins in, it's everything else about the game that motivated so much investigation. It's basically dumb luck that it took on a life of its own. The later Garegga revisions even change the mechanics to make exploiting rank obnoxious and force you to play "properly" - bad extend rate or no extends, can't mess with the autofire, can't control your options - nobody plays them.
About Treasure? IDK, but i feel that their games secretly speaks to you, there's a lot of symbolism, everything is placed and designed to send you a message.
An Ascetic/Esoteric/Mystical SHMUP.
Don't misunderstand me, i like their "signature" and aesthetic, but i wont put them first (or too high), are too unique to not be praised, and too unique to be copied and spawn a new SHMUPS Branch. A rare beast, like "Plato in a CAVE".
So why Battle Garegga is so praised and at this point "indirectly" influential?
I LOVE it graphically and musically, it's great but gameplay-wise is not so fun...at least for me, i found "artificiality" in it.
As if you can't play "with the flow", if you understand what i mean...i can't enter in my "Trance-State".
Is devoid of that, and i think that the synesthesia effect is ESSENTIAL in arcade games and arcade experience (or Arcades on Consoles). You should be overwhelmed by the music, the graphic the gameplay, in an adrenaline explosion....if i have to think too much about how i play it, it breaks that magical chain.
How can a SHOOTING game punish you for shooting too much? It even denies to you the joy of a fully upgraded aircraft!!!
Was the game not copied for this reason? Because looks counterintuitive for the genre logic and for what is "fun" in SHMUPS.
I thought that was praised because was litterally designed to punish "1CC No Miss" players.
Despite i've played Darius Gaiden (Co-op) only once, i wasn't aware about the rank system but you could feel there was something in the air.Lethe wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 4:15 pm Darius Gaiden, before Garegga, has a rank system that's somewhat comparable in complexity, is way more conscientiously designed, and has more in common with the score/rank balancing systems which have become a genre staple. Batrider after has the properly fixed Garegga system that works out similarly, excepting its stupid boot rank thing. But nobody can deny that Garegga is massively influential, despite nobody wanting to clone its supposedly most defining aspect. Maybe that wasn't the important part of it after all.
We reached the end with some credits and randomly advanced to the last zone but my pal abandoned me before the end.
So i faced the last boss alone.
I've never felt so WRECKED by a Boss in ANY other SHMUPS as THIS BOSS did.
At one point the boss stopped to attack and i thought "Oh, i won?" then suddenly it threw all those "tentacles" at me, which until then doesn't seems tentacles at all...and the boss never used that attack before!
Nice to know that Darius Gaiden have a more balanced Rank System than Garegga
That post . Many almost forgotten games added many mechanics YEARS earlier than the more famous SHMUPS did laterLethe wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 4:15 pm Definitely not. Zanac (86/87) is one of the best-known early granular rank systems. That whole thread is great reading BTW, goes towards the point of how iterative everything is and how developers pull ideas from everywhere.
Probably the developers in mid-80//mid-90 knows those games...or maybe they simply ended with the same idea 10/20 years later IDK.
PS: Is Raiden considerable "Toaplan-esque" ???
Why is one of the most beloved series? It is still alive today.
Few SHMUPS games and series can say that...really.
So... i really can't understand why Battle Garegga is indispensable and influential SHMUP.Bassa-Bassa wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 6:32 pm Check also Daioh's Oyaji System for a complex and nasty rank feature previous to Garegga and even Darius Gaiden.
But I also disagree that rank is an achievement as there are many other better ways to add difficulty to your game than being dishonest with the player. Something that Treasure in particular can be proud of, by the way.
Looks like if its influence is exclusively negative at this point.