Another day, another shooting in the US

[neorichieb1971]

Anyone in the US sticking up for guns after watching a massacre in a school is insane.

Tell me, if you leave guns sold in stores on the street. How do you keep control on how those guns are used? Its basically impossible to control. The guns are not clever, they don't have logins on them, they don't have fingerprint technology on them. They can be used by anyone at anytime.

If the idiot that done this didn't have a gun, the numbers dead would be 5% of what you have now. If you gave him bombs and detonators, it would be more people. Simple numbers.

[Mero]

the fabled constitution

The US Constitution guarantees the right to free speech, a freedom we are not lucky enough to enjoy in this country. That is, it is a precious thing.

That said, I'm glad we don't do it the same way with guns over here, there are people in my town that I wouldn't let loose with a pea shooter.

[O. Van Bruce]

the fabled constitution

The US Constitution guarantees the right to free speech, a freedom we are not lucky enough to enjoy in this country. That is, it is a precious thing.

That said, I'm glad we don't do it the same way with guns over here, there are people in my town that I wouldn't let loose with a pea shooter.

Tell us your stories about the British government silencing people.

[BulletMagnet]

I have no doubt that the current President would not hesitate to enact a complete ban on guns if he was given a chance, but I really hope that he would never get the chance.

I'm really not sure where people are getting this whole "Obama is an unhinged radical" vibe from, at least if they're actually going by what he's done and said himself as opposed to what others have invented about him; like everyone else in the country I've got my issues with him but there's no way he, or any other President we've ever had, would be delusional enough to think a stunt like this would be worth trying in any respect.

I think somebody already mentioned this above, but one of America's greatest ideals is the sense of personal freedom and liberty, but Americans have allowed that ideal to become distorted and perverted to the point where their own pursuit of happiness takes precedence over anyone else's. We've stopped realizing that my liberty ends where yours begins.

You are aware, I assume, that there is a very tangible, very deliberate reason for this.

The US Constitution guarantees the right to free speech, a freedom we are not lucky enough to enjoy in this country. That is, it is a precious thing.

You can say a lot of things here, but there is never such a thing as "totally" free speech; the old "fire in a crowded theater" example certainly applies, though people have also been arrested for comments/Facebook posts/etc. that have been deemed "threatening" by various authorities (some more plausible than others).

[CMoon]

Anyone in the US sticking up for guns after watching a massacre in a school is insane.

Tell me, if you leave guns sold in stores on the street. How do you keep control on how those guns are used? Its basically impossible to control. The guns are not clever, they don't have logins on them, they don't have fingerprint technology on them. They can be used by anyone at anytime.

If the idiot that done this didn't have a gun, the numbers dead would be 5% of what you have now. If you gave him bombs and detonators, it would be more people. Simple numbers.

Well since we can't back down from the right of everyone to own assault rifles, I think we should instead move toward the right of everyone (especially small children) to own and wear kevlar body armor. Why make the gun industry take a hit, when the textile industry can be elevated? Think of the new fashions and styles?

I realize (in only a short number of years) this will lead to the 'right to own' kevlar piercing bullets, but this is merely the ebb and flow of capitalism. Upwards and forwards.

[robivy64]

I shared this on another forum:

When I lived in an apartment, one of my neighbors was beaten to death with a bar stool by a burglar.

BAN BAR STOOLS.

[robivy64]

[BulletMagnet]

I shared this on another forum:

When I lived in an apartment, one of my neighbors was beaten to death with a bar stool by a burglar.

BAN BAR STOOLS.

Let us know the next time somebody mows down several dozen people within five minutes using a bar stool.

[robivy64]

It amazes me that so many simpletons believe that banning guns will solve the problem. Did you know that the guy STOLE the weapons from his parents?

Killers will find a gun if they want to kill. Legal or not.

[Ex-Cyber]

I realize (in only a short number of years) this will lead to the 'right to own' kevlar piercing bullets

Some of the "time to water the tree of liberty" crowd already argue for that, because we need to keep the evil gubmint agents from getting too cocky.

[O. Van Bruce]

It amazes me that so many simpletons believe that banning guns will solve the problem. Did you know that the guy STOLE the weapons from his parents?

Killers will find a gun if they want to kill. Legal or not.

Some simple facts for you, because it seems like you haven't even read the thread.

- Nobody is advocating for a complete ban on guns. Let in new laws that make harder to get a gun legally. You would say, "Killers will find a gun if they want to kill. Legal or not." but at least, the killers that do it with a legal weapon will ceast to exist, you will say, that either way they are going to get the gun, but read this:

I feel as though you're underestimating the power of the weapon. Lets look at this hypothetically:

Young teen, full of angst, listens to lots of loud music by bearded men with unintelligible lyrics and cries himself to sleep because girls don't love him and it's not how it is on TV.

Goes on internet, gets rage. Vent, spittle, "I'll show those bastards for not understanding my hormones!!"

Now, in a country where firearms are unavailable, our inward, bullied teen full of angst has several options of recourse. He can:

A: Burn down his house. But then he would be homeless, lose his Xbox 360 and Sepultura CD's, and might die trying to escape the ensuing blaze OR be caught in the act and get grounded.

B: Go get a big knife. But then the murder is limited. You can probably only stab up one defenceless infant before someone tackles you to the ground and you go to prison for eternity, because people are less afraid of knives. It's also, eew, gross n' stuff, because you might get blood on your Slipknot tee shirt.

C: Make a bomb. But oh, this internet guide seems complicated. Sulphate hydroxide what already? I don't even have a measuring jug. Screw this, I gotta get some CoD in before a furious crywank and self harm with a razor blade.

D: Beat someone to death: not strong enough, too many variables. They'll probably beat me to death first.

E: Acid attack. That's just fucked up. Might spill some on myself, or hit a dog by accident.

F: Poison a water supply. Too slow. Will be in the news for ages, and then I have to live with myself and may one day regret it. Not sure if I want that on my shoulders.

G: Get a fully automatic machine gun, like in those Uwe Boll movies, a bullet proof vest and a shit ton of ammo. Not only do I get to keep my distance, but no-one can approach me and no-one will have time to react. I can kill every motherfucker in two whole rooms with one of these babies, in about four minutes flat. Just like in the movies. I always wanted to be in the movies. Shooting people is cool in the movies. Ultimate power trip, maximum damage, least effort. And it has a proven track record. Best of all, after everyone finally understands the depths of my teen angst, I can save a bullet for my own little head, and try to hit the pea brain floating around inside.
Win win.

...The point being, if you remove G from the equation, fewer people will die.

Apply this to not only Teens full of angts but most people since they won't go to the trouble of finding someone that sells illegal weaponry, also, heavy stuff like rifles cost A LOT in the black market where there are laws that make hard to own a weapon legally. There you go Cowboy.

Well since we can't back down from the right of everyone to own assault rifles, I think we should instead move toward the right of everyone (especially small children) to own and wear kevlar body armor. Why make the gun industry take a hit, when the textile industry can be elevated? Think of the new fashions and styles?

I realize (in only a short number of years) this will lead to the 'right to own' kevlar piercing bullets, but this is merely the ebb and flow of capitalism. Upwards and forwards.

BRILLIANT

[Casey120]

It amazes me that so many simpletons believe that banning guns will solve the problem. Did you know that the guy STOLE the weapons from his parents?

Killers will find a gun if they want to kill. Legal or not.

You mean his parents owning guns would be unaffected by a total ban ?

[robivy64]

Yeah, you're right.

He will say "aww crap I can't find a gun anywhere since they are banned, oh well".

Works for illegal narcotics, right?

[O. Van Bruce]

Yeah, you're right.

He will say "aww crap I can't find a gun anywhere since they are banned, oh well".

Works for illegal narcotics, right?

Go out on the streets, and count how many drug dealers you can find and compare it with the illegal gun dealers. Now seriously, most people in my country are completely oblivious to where to get a weapon illegaly as well on most of europe. If someone gets a tantrum it will take him days, with some luck, to find an illegal weapons dealer and it will cost him A LOT of money to get the gun. While he finds him, he or she will have time to calm down and most probably back down.

Again, from my own experience, I've seen a lot of drug dealers here and have befriended a few but I've yet to know an illegal weapons dealer.

In contrast, It's a lot easier to get drugs because it's easier to produce and it doesn't have too much bad public image. In Spain you can own up to 3 Marihuana bushes for personal use without being illegal.

[Mero]

l

[CMoon]

Yeah, you're right.

He will say "aww crap I can't find a gun anywhere since they are banned, oh well".

Works for illegal narcotics, right?

The problem I have with this argument is that these shootings are never committed by hardened criminals. Most are by teens or college aged kids, typically with no criminal record. Ironically, I'm not worried about criminals out there murdering people in large numbers, because ironically, they're quite sane. The problems are these young people who either have mental disorders or are going through some serious emotional/traumatic shit. What I'm curious about are all the young people that commit suicide due to bullying--is there really much of a difference between the mindset that leads you to killing yourself vs killing lots of other people?

This is the group we aren't addressing and it is imperative we don't let them have guns. There are good reasons for driving age limits and drinking age limit (not saying the latter is particularly effective), but how do we ensure that guns are never available (even accidentally) to this age group?

[brentsg]

Its not Europe vs USA. Its common sense vs stubbornism.

Delete, not worth it. I rarely read the forum anymore and try my best to avoid posting in shit like this when I do.

[BryanM]

I'm really not sure where people are getting this whole "Obama is an unhinged radical" vibe from,

I know where it comes from: they're idiots. Like the global warming deniers, it's a red flag that everything that person says from then on should be ignored.

We have a republican president, but a 1960'sish one is apparently a socialist now.



I guess I have to agree with Richie on this one. It's the politics of fear. Often one of them will be like "I gots a gun, I ain't afraid of a daaaamn thing." Which is a serious case of protesting too much.

As they say, anger is just fear that feels good.

/goes back to sucking on the hose that presents "the war on christmas" as a real and totally not made up thing

[KAI]

Europe vs USA

Oooh the idiosyncrasy, we should learn to to respect it.

[O. Van Bruce]

I'm really not sure where people are getting this whole "Obama is an unhinged radical" vibe from,

I know where it comes from: they're idiots. Like the global warming deniers, it's a red flag that everything that person says from then on should be ignored.

We have a republican president, but a 1960'sish one is apparently a socialist now.



I guess I have to agree with Richie on this one. It's the politics of fear. Often one of them will be like "I gots a gun, I ain't afraid of a daaaamn thing." Which is a serious case of protesting too much.

As they say, anger is just fear that feels good.

/goes back to sucking on the hose that presents "the war on christmas" as a real and totally not made up thing

Before the 80's there were a lot of people on the republican party that advocated for the welfare state and union membership. But then came the Reaganomics and after that the Republican party became fully neo-con. I'm sure most of the millionaires that got all those fiscal advantages while the poor got more taxes bought the republican party entirely to ensure that the situation would not go back to pre-Reagan presidency.

[DragonInstall]

Most of the people on this site are pathetic... It's like 4chan all over again.

[O. Van Bruce]

Most of the people on this site are pathetic... It's like 4chan all over again.

And what do you want? Us to behave politely by respecting your point of view?

When something is wrong it's normal to point at the problem. What should we do? simply because it's not our country we should think, "it's their children, it's their people, not my problem"?

[DEL]

Skykid wrote;

You have no liberties. The government does not follow the constitution. Your president has barely any power to do anything. You have no rights, nor any real influence. You can't stop your government from going to war. Gun ownership won't save you from totalitarian power, since it's already here. Your country is owned by banks that make withdrawals of taxpayers money if and when they choose. The USA is already a police state, more so than most of continental Europe, and your economy is completely fucked because the government of Goldman Sachs and corporate America (a different country, essentially) have their own constitution: money; and it takes higher priority over anything that's been before, as it does in US medicine and accompanying insurances, where you'll effectively be denied life because of the small print.

^What?! Who woke you up?! When the Hell did you realise this?!
HUH?!
Either you're being ironic Mr Skykid or you've done a lot of waking up since we last conversed
How did you know that ALL Media is owned run and controlled by 1 source? All TV, all newspapers, all music, all film. That its all a complete pantomime, all lies, spin, propaganda and misdirection.
What happened to you Mr Skykid, Mr Doubting Thomas?
How DARE you wake up?!

[ED-057]

The gun control debate is a thoroughly-beaten dead horse, already decomposed and gone. The farmer wants to know why you lunatics are still in his pasture striking at the dirt.

Anyone who wants to address the issue of school and workplace massacres above the level of knee-jerk, should look at the history of such events and ask themselves why they began in the 1980s.

"Sense" being the operative word.

It always beggars belief to find Americans who still believe the core values of the fabled constitution are somehow maintained within the spirit of the populace and the government is there as a secondary power.
I appreciate from inside the borders, where you're drip fed concentrated bullshit where legitimate news broadcasts are meant to be, that it might be difficult to see the woods for the trees, so here's the hardline:

You have no liberties. The government does not follow the constitution. Your president has barely any power to do anything. You have no rights, nor any real influence. You can't stop your government from going to war. Gun ownership won't save you from totalitarian power, since it's already here. Your country is owned by banks that make withdrawals of taxpayers money if and when they choose. The USA is already a police state, more so than most of continental Europe, and your economy is completely fucked because the government of Goldman Sachs and corporate America (a different country, essentially) have their own constitution: money; and it takes higher priority over anything that's been before, as it does in US medicine and accompanying insurances, where you'll effectively be denied life because of the small print.

I'm sick of hearing all the talk. If you want to act on your supposed civil liberties, take those arms, go to DC, and demand power be returned to the people. Just make sure you dodge all the tank fire on the way.

What you wrote here is true but I`m not sure what your point is in bringing it up. People are not ready to rise up and march on the capitol, most of them don`t understand what is going on. Roughly 100 million just came out and voted for the lizards because the media told them they had to.

[Drum]

I shared this on another forum:

When I lived in an apartment, one of my neighbors was beaten to death with a bar stool by a burglar.

BAN BAR STOOLS.

Man you are an idiot.

[drauch]

Wooooooo, this is starting to get nasty! I'm bowing out of this one, gents.

[moh]

Wooooooo, this is starting to get nasty! I'm bowing out of this one, gents.

I stopping reading this thread after the first few posts...

[ChainsawGuitarSP]

Well this thread was only started as an excuse for Skykid to vent his xenophobia, so I'm definitely not surprised to see it turn to shit so quickly.

[BulletMagnet]

Well this thread was only started as an excuse for Skykid to vent his xenophobia

Methinks there might be slightly deeper issues at play here than just that.

[mesh control]

http://globalsociology.com/2012/12/15/o ... point-out/

Good read.